Please rise and remove your caps

HughFreakingDillon

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

oftenreading said:

Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of  “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion. 

The historical reason has something to do with medieval knights and removing their helms (or lifting their visors) as a show of respect and a gesture that they come in peace. I think someone else may have posted something in more detail along these lines earlier in this thread.

I tend to follow most of Emily Post's guidelines for gentlemen (at least the ones that were around in the 1980s). Some are archaic, but they are second nature at this point. I try not to be compulsive about them, but that can be difficult. I've been admonished a few times by women friends and simply stopped holding doors, etc., for those who have taken issue.

F Me In The Brain said:

Why is burping rude?
Because we were told.  Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.

Isn't burping viewed favorably as a compliment to the chef in some cultures? Or is that BS?

am I understanding this correctly? you've been admonished by women FOR holding the door for them?

Yes, and it's especially been frowned upon in an office setting.

why? is it considered a slippery slope to harassment or something?

drakeheuer14

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

oftenreading said:

Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of  “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion. 

The historical reason has something to do with medieval knights and removing their helms (or lifting their visors) as a show of respect and a gesture that they come in peace. I think someone else may have posted something in more detail along these lines earlier in this thread.

I tend to follow most of Emily Post's guidelines for gentlemen (at least the ones that were around in the 1980s). Some are archaic, but they are second nature at this point. I try not to be compulsive about them, but that can be difficult. I've been admonished a few times by women friends and simply stopped holding doors, etc., for those who have taken issue.

F Me In The Brain said:

Why is burping rude?
Because we were told.  Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.

Isn't burping viewed favorably as a compliment to the chef in some cultures? Or is that BS?

am I understanding this correctly? you've been admonished by women FOR holding the door for them?

Yes, and it's especially been frowned upon in an office setting.

oftenreading said:

At one point it would have been considered disrespectful for a gentleman not to wear a suit and tie to work. How many of you fellows follow that rule?

At one point, yes, but that's not the case anymore. And it hasn't been the case for a long time. Shirtsleeve business operations began in the 1960s, I think, perhaps even earlier. (I will say that it's only been a few years since I've come to accept a male guest on a talk show who fails to wear a tie, though.)

The etiquette guiding when to remove one's hat, however, has not changed, as far as I know.

So it’s on us to change it then. 

dankind

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dankind said:

oftenreading said:

Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of  “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion. 

The historical reason has something to do with medieval knights and removing their helms (or lifting their visors) as a show of respect and a gesture that they come in peace. I think someone else may have posted something in more detail along these lines earlier in this thread.

I tend to follow most of Emily Post's guidelines for gentlemen (at least the ones that were around in the 1980s). Some are archaic, but they are second nature at this point. I try not to be compulsive about them, but that can be difficult. I've been admonished a few times by women friends and simply stopped holding doors, etc., for those who have taken issue.

F Me In The Brain said:

Why is burping rude?
Because we were told.  Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.

Isn't burping viewed favorably as a compliment to the chef in some cultures? Or is that BS?

am I understanding this correctly? you've been admonished by women FOR holding the door for them?

Yes, and it's especially been frowned upon in an office setting.

why? is it considered a slippery slope to harassment or something?

I think that it's because women are still fighting to be treated as equals in many workplaces, and having a door held open for them at the office diminishes their struggle.

HesCalledDyer

I've never understood why people get offended at someone doing a nice simple gesture such as holding a door.  But I have encountered the militant "what do you think, I can't open it for myself?" female here and there. I usually just respond with "Sorry for the convenience."

HughFreakingDillon

there's a dude in my office who is in a wheelchair. we are in the elevator together. I am closest to the floor buttons. 

Hugh: hey man, which floor you heading to?
him: stares at me defiantly, then reaches over and slams his hand on the button and says nothing the entire time

and just yesterday, leaving for the day. on the main floor we hava a series of doors, like Get Smart, to go through, to get to the parkade. I am in front of him. I hold the first door open for him, as I do for anyone, man, woman, child, able bodied or not. 

he slams through the closed door next to it. 

I go through the next door. 

he slams through the closed door next to that one again. 

some people just have a fucking insecurity that they are being treated as inferior, when they are just being treated nicely. fuck off, you bitter prick. 

rgambs

There is a clear difference between holding open a door which you have opened for yourself so someone else can pass (otherwise it may close in their face and injure them) and moving in front of a woman to open the door for her.
The first one is common courtesy and the second one is an archaic gesture that was ABSOLUTELY born from misogyny and chauvanism, and continues still because people just do as they were told without ever questioning.

HesCalledDyer

rgambs said:

There is a clear difference between holding open a door which you have opened for yourself so someone else can pass (otherwise it may close in their face and injure them) and moving in front of a woman to open the door for her.
The first one is common courtesy and the second one is an archaic gesture that was ABSOLUTELY born from misogyny and chauvanism, and continues still because people just do as they were told without ever questioning.

Yeah, the only time I would run to the front to open a door is if they obviously need help.  For example, carrying things in both hands or arms that would prevent them from opening the door without setting everything down first.  But to run up and open the door just bc it's a woman, no.

F Me In The Brain

oftenreading said:

At one point it would have been considered disrespectful for a gentleman not to wear a suit and tie to work. How many of you fellows follow that rule?

I just got an email letting me know that a networking event I am attending at a City Club with other executive level people on Tuesday has a dress code:

For men:

Jacket and tie are strongly preferred. Jacket and collared shirt are required at all times on the first floor members-only section of the League House.

I wear a blazer (always) to these things but am rarely in a tie.

If I am not out with clients/partners, I wear shorts and a t-shirt. 

mcgruff10

HesCalledDyer said:

rgambs said:

There is a clear difference between holding open a door which you have opened for yourself so someone else can pass (otherwise it may close in their face and injure them) and moving in front of a woman to open the door for her.
The first one is common courtesy and the second one is an archaic gesture that was ABSOLUTELY born from misogyny and chauvanism, and continues still because people just do as they were told without ever questioning.

Yeah, the only time I would run to the front to open a door is if they obviously need help.  For example, carrying things in both hands or arms that would prevent them from opening the door without setting everything down first.  But to run up and open the door just bc it's a woman, no.

I don’t run up but I try to always open the door for women. The women I deal with on a daily basis think it is very gentlemenly and polite. 

PJWGIII

Here’s my opinion:

Do it when when asked to do so to be respectful to others. When not, don’t worry about it at all.

It’s just a simple sign of respect, and while there’s not much of an explanation of the act itself, it goes a long way toward people who care more about that kind of stuff. But if you’re not in that kind of situation, don’t worry about it. Do what you want if you aren’t asked to do otherwise.

However, I have yet to understand why this is an enforced rule at many public schools. That scenario is the one I don’t get. 

drakeheuer14

PJWGIII said:

Here’s my opinion:

Do it when when asked to do so to be respectful to others. When not, don’t worry about it at all.

It’s just a simple sign of respect, and while there’s not much of an explanation of the act itself, it goes a long way toward people who care more about that kind of stuff. But if you’re not in that kind of situation, don’t worry about it. Do what you want if you aren’t asked to do otherwise.

However, I have yet to understand why this is an enforced rule at many public schools. That scenario is the one I don’t get. 

I challenged it often in high school. Only one teacher ever tried to give an explanation and their reasoning was to prevent gang activity... which made no sense to me. At least for the district I was in. How would a hat perpetuate gang activity anymore than a tshirt or wristband could?

it annoyed me even more that females were allowed to because then it was for fashion purposes

my2hands

brianlux said:

I am worldalistic, bioregionalistic, and communitialistic.  The only -istics that make sense to me.  Countries are simply artificial lines on a map.  They have no basis in reality. 

I'm more down with this than most others... people's think I'm crazy when I go off on my soap box about this

Made up lines that really don't mean a damn thing... we are one race floating around on a rock... 

brianlux

my2hands said:

brianlux said:

I am worldalistic, bioregionalistic, and communitialistic.  The only -istics that make sense to me.  Countries are simply artificial lines on a map.  They have no basis in reality. 

I'm more down with this than most others... people's think I'm crazy when I go off on my soap box about this

Made up lines that really don't mean a damn thing... we are one race floating around on a rock... 

Cool!  Nice to know I'm not alone on this.  I rarely hear anyone say likewise. 

We're indoctrinated by artificial political barriers from the get go. 

What is one of the first things they teach you in school?  Naming states and countries.  Doing jigsaw puzzles of states  or provinces.  Given a globe to study. 

What is one of the last things we are taught (if taught at all)?  What a biome is.  What comprises and ecosystem.  What an ecological community is made up of and how it keeps in balance. 

We are taught the most artificial things first and the most natural last.  No wonder we are at odds with the world we live in. 

Smellyman

" I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Says the primary school kids in school. 

That was always fucked up to me.  Indoctrination at it's finest.  Don't pledge allegiance to anything.  It's archaic, especially forcing kids to do it.  iI's super creepy like a cult.  Complete with god reference.

Oh and remove your hat for it.

mcgruff10

HughFreakingDillon said:

there's a dude in my office who is in a wheelchair. we are in the elevator together. I am closest to the floor buttons. 

Hugh: hey man, which floor you heading to?
him: stares at me defiantly, then reaches over and slams his hand on the button and says nothing the entire time

and just yesterday, leaving for the day. on the main floor we hava a series of doors, like Get Smart, to go through, to get to the parkade. I am in front of him. I hold the first door open for him, as I do for anyone, man, woman, child, able bodied or not. 

he slams through the closed door next to it. 

I go through the next door. 

he slams through the closed door next to that one again. 

some people just have a fucking insecurity that they are being treated as inferior, when they are just being treated nicely. fuck off, you bitter prick. 

Yikes. and here you are just trying to be nice. 

Smellyman

HughFreakingDillon said:

there's a dude in my office who is in a wheelchair. we are in the elevator together. I am closest to the floor buttons. 

Hugh: hey man, which floor you heading to?
him: stares at me defiantly, then reaches over and slams his hand on the button and says nothing the entire time

and just yesterday, leaving for the day. on the main floor we hava a series of doors, like Get Smart, to go through, to get to the parkade. I am in front of him. I hold the first door open for him, as I do for anyone, man, woman, child, able bodied or not. 

he slams through the closed door next to it. 

I go through the next door. 

he slams through the closed door next to that one again. 

some people just have a fucking insecurity that they are being treated as inferior, when they are just being treated nicely. fuck off, you bitter prick. 

or he is in a wheelchair and is dealing with many demons we could only imagine and it has 0 to do with insecurity and that they are being treated as inferior.

I'd still have empathy

drakeheuer14

Smellyman said:

" I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Says the primary school kids in school. 

That was always fucked up to me.  Indoctrination at it's finest.  Don't pledge allegiance to anything.  It's archaic, especially forcing kids to do it.  iI's super creepy like a cult.  Complete with god reference.

Oh and remove your hat for it.

In Ohio where I grew up we had to say the pledge until high school when they stopped doing it altogether. I attribute it to how diverse the student body in that school district was and not wanting kids to feel uncomfortable. Real reason could be completely different, who knows.
Anyways, my family moved to South Carolina while I was in high school and on the first day of school I think I let out an audible laugh (or something expressing my disbelief) because they were all still forced to say the pledge every damn morning. I just stood there, didnt want to be the new kid that sits during the pledge lol

rgambs

Not just a pathetic and disgusting indoctrination technique, but also a grave sin if you are a Christian.
But, who cares about the Ten Commandments anyways?  Not nearly as important as that one little passage in Leviticus that says something about gay people.  THAT'S a REAL priority!

HesCalledDyer

I remember saying the Pledge in school during the morning announcements.  We did it all the way thru high school.  I never knew what any of the words meant. It just seemed like a bunch of drivel, like a drunk person just shouting out random comments with no meaning.  If those were PJ song lyrics we'd be ripping this website apart.

dankind

HesCalledDyer said:

I remember saying the Pledge in school during the morning announcements.  We did it all the way thru high school.  I never knew what any of the words meant. It just seemed like a bunch of drivel, like a drunk person just shouting out random comments with no meaning.  If those were PJ song lyrics we'd be ripping this website apart.

I sat during the pledge from fourth grade on. It wasn't a forced thing in my school districts. I took more shit for it from other kids than I did from the teachers. The teachers knew it was horseshit. The kids who gave me shit just needed their noses bloodied so that they'd leave me the fuck alone.