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So if we can't feel pride, should be also not feel shame over what this dumbass is doing in the oval office?HughFreakingDillon said:
I always find this statement, "I am proud to live in (this country)" very interesting. I mean, what is there to be proud of? Pride generally stems from something you did or had a part in doing that is positive.mcgruff10 said:
Yeah I am catholic but I don’t Associate the two together. I see nothing wrong with nationalism, I am proud to live in the United States.rgambs said:
Aren't you Catholic?mcgruff10 said:
My religion?rgambs said:
So you've been told and you listened, and it ties in with the funny "hat rules" that were imparted by your religion so it made sense.mcgruff10 said:
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some people see these sorts of rules and rituals as relics of a past which needs let go, or they are just very resistant to examples of groupthink like this where people follow blindly in footsteps they don't understand.
My grandfather (ww2 vet) and dad (vietnam vet) instilled this thinking, and i'll do the same to my kids. I really don't see the harm in it. It is all of 90 seconds.
They have rules about hats so it would make sense that you wouldn't be inclined to question it.
Nationalism is ugly and many people want no part of it.
if you were born there, you had zero part in choosing your geographical location. and you also had zero part in what the US is today, in the grand scheme.
I am not proud to be Canadian. I'm happy to live in Canada, but I wouldn't use the word pride.
as to your previous statement, "I don't see the harm in it". I agree, there really is no harm in it. Unless you couple it with a message of derision of places that aren't the US.
The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
you know, that's a really great point. the odd thing is, though, I'm not american, and even I feel shame about his being in office. I think it's more of an embarassment at my fellow humans more than it is a national identity thing.F Me In The Brain said:
So if we can't feel pride, should be also not feel shame over what this dumbass is doing in the oval office?HughFreakingDillon said:
I always find this statement, "I am proud to live in (this country)" very interesting. I mean, what is there to be proud of? Pride generally stems from something you did or had a part in doing that is positive.mcgruff10 said:
Yeah I am catholic but I don’t Associate the two together. I see nothing wrong with nationalism, I am proud to live in the United States.rgambs said:
Aren't you Catholic?mcgruff10 said:
My religion?rgambs said:
So you've been told and you listened, and it ties in with the funny "hat rules" that were imparted by your religion so it made sense.mcgruff10 said:
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some people see these sorts of rules and rituals as relics of a past which needs let go, or they are just very resistant to examples of groupthink like this where people follow blindly in footsteps they don't understand.
My grandfather (ww2 vet) and dad (vietnam vet) instilled this thinking, and i'll do the same to my kids. I really don't see the harm in it. It is all of 90 seconds.
They have rules about hats so it would make sense that you wouldn't be inclined to question it.
Nationalism is ugly and many people want no part of it.
if you were born there, you had zero part in choosing your geographical location. and you also had zero part in what the US is today, in the grand scheme.
I am not proud to be Canadian. I'm happy to live in Canada, but I wouldn't use the word pride.
as to your previous statement, "I don't see the harm in it". I agree, there really is no harm in it. Unless you couple it with a message of derision of places that aren't the US.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
You wouldn’t use the word pride but I would. Yeah I am proud to live here and Be aus citizen. I dis not do anything huge in the grand scheme off things but I do educate 100 8th graders a year and it is my hope that the majority of them do something positive for this country. So yeah, I am proud.HughFreakingDillon said:
I always find this statement, "I am proud to live in (this country)" very interesting. I mean, what is there to be proud of? Pride generally stems from something you did or had a part in doing that is positive.mcgruff10 said:
Yeah I am catholic but I don’t Associate the two together. I see nothing wrong with nationalism, I am proud to live in the United States.rgambs said:
Aren't you Catholic?mcgruff10 said:
My religion?rgambs said:
So you've been told and you listened, and it ties in with the funny "hat rules" that were imparted by your religion so it made sense.mcgruff10 said:
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some people see these sorts of rules and rituals as relics of a past which needs let go, or they are just very resistant to examples of groupthink like this where people follow blindly in footsteps they don't understand.
My grandfather (ww2 vet) and dad (vietnam vet) instilled this thinking, and i'll do the same to my kids. I really don't see the harm in it. It is all of 90 seconds.
They have rules about hats so it would make sense that you wouldn't be inclined to question it.
Nationalism is ugly and many people want no part of it.
if you were born there, you had zero part in choosing your geographical location. and you also had zero part in what the US is today, in the grand scheme.
I am not proud to be Canadian. I'm happy to live in Canada, but I wouldn't use the word pride.
as to your previous statement, "I don't see the harm in it". I agree, there really is no harm in it. Unless you couple it with a message of derision of places that aren't the US.Post edited by mcgruff10 onI'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
HughFreakingDillon said:
you know, that's a really great point. the odd thing is, though, I'm not american, and even I feel shame about his being in office. I think it's more of an embarassment at my fellow humans more than it is a national identity thing.F Me In The Brain said:
So if we can't feel pride, should be also not feel shame over what this dumbass is doing in the oval office?HughFreakingDillon said:
I always find this statement, "I am proud to live in (this country)" very interesting. I mean, what is there to be proud of? Pride generally stems from something you did or had a part in doing that is positive.mcgruff10 said:
Yeah I am catholic but I don’t Associate the two together. I see nothing wrong with nationalism, I am proud to live in the United States.rgambs said:
Aren't you Catholic?mcgruff10 said:
My religion?rgambs said:
So you've been told and you listened, and it ties in with the funny "hat rules" that were imparted by your religion so it made sense.mcgruff10 said:
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some people see these sorts of rules and rituals as relics of a past which needs let go, or they are just very resistant to examples of groupthink like this where people follow blindly in footsteps they don't understand.
My grandfather (ww2 vet) and dad (vietnam vet) instilled this thinking, and i'll do the same to my kids. I really don't see the harm in it. It is all of 90 seconds.
They have rules about hats so it would make sense that you wouldn't be inclined to question it.
Nationalism is ugly and many people want no part of it.
if you were born there, you had zero part in choosing your geographical location. and you also had zero part in what the US is today, in the grand scheme.
I am not proud to be Canadian. I'm happy to live in Canada, but I wouldn't use the word pride.
as to your previous statement, "I don't see the harm in it". I agree, there really is no harm in it. Unless you couple it with a message of derision of places that aren't the US.
I feel both pride and shame about this country, even though I have nothing to do with any of that stuff.The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
fair enough. It's just an interesting mindset to me, specifically hoping they do something positive "for this country". why does it have to be "for this country" specifically?mcgruff10 said:
You wouldn’t use the word pride but I would. Yeah I am proud to live here and Ben a us citizen. I didmt do anything huge in the grand scheme off things but I do educate 100 8th graders a year and it is my hope that the majority of them do something positive for this country. So yeah, I am proud.HughFreakingDillon said:
I always find this statement, "I am proud to live in (this country)" very interesting. I mean, what is there to be proud of? Pride generally stems from something you did or had a part in doing that is positive.mcgruff10 said:
Yeah I am catholic but I don’t Associate the two together. I see nothing wrong with nationalism, I am proud to live in the United States.rgambs said:
Aren't you Catholic?mcgruff10 said:
My religion?rgambs said:
So you've been told and you listened, and it ties in with the funny "hat rules" that were imparted by your religion so it made sense.mcgruff10 said:
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some people see these sorts of rules and rituals as relics of a past which needs let go, or they are just very resistant to examples of groupthink like this where people follow blindly in footsteps they don't understand.
My grandfather (ww2 vet) and dad (vietnam vet) instilled this thinking, and i'll do the same to my kids. I really don't see the harm in it. It is all of 90 seconds.
They have rules about hats so it would make sense that you wouldn't be inclined to question it.
Nationalism is ugly and many people want no part of it.
if you were born there, you had zero part in choosing your geographical location. and you also had zero part in what the US is today, in the grand scheme.
I am not proud to be Canadian. I'm happy to live in Canada, but I wouldn't use the word pride.
as to your previous statement, "I don't see the harm in it". I agree, there really is no harm in it. Unless you couple it with a message of derision of places that aren't the US.
to be clear, I'm not saying what you do or how you think is incorrect. I just like to get in the minds of those that think differently than I do. especially with this patriotism/nationalism thing.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
My bad, it doesn’t have to Be the USA. Just do something good for the world, be positive, be kind, and vote! I m also big on studying abroad in college.HughFreakingDillon said:
fair enough. It's just an interesting mindset to me, specifically hoping they do something positive "for this country". why does it have to be "for this country" specifically?mcgruff10 said:
You wouldn’t use the word pride but I would. Yeah I am proud to live here and Ben a us citizen. I didmt do anything huge in the grand scheme off things but I do educate 100 8th graders a year and it is my hope that the majority of them do something positive for this country. So yeah, I am proud.HughFreakingDillon said:
I always find this statement, "I am proud to live in (this country)" very interesting. I mean, what is there to be proud of? Pride generally stems from something you did or had a part in doing that is positive.mcgruff10 said:
Yeah I am catholic but I don’t Associate the two together. I see nothing wrong with nationalism, I am proud to live in the United States.rgambs said:
Aren't you Catholic?mcgruff10 said:
My religion?rgambs said:
So you've been told and you listened, and it ties in with the funny "hat rules" that were imparted by your religion so it made sense.mcgruff10 said:
Not everyone thinks like that.
Some people see these sorts of rules and rituals as relics of a past which needs let go, or they are just very resistant to examples of groupthink like this where people follow blindly in footsteps they don't understand.
My grandfather (ww2 vet) and dad (vietnam vet) instilled this thinking, and i'll do the same to my kids. I really don't see the harm in it. It is all of 90 seconds.
They have rules about hats so it would make sense that you wouldn't be inclined to question it.
Nationalism is ugly and many people want no part of it.
if you were born there, you had zero part in choosing your geographical location. and you also had zero part in what the US is today, in the grand scheme.
I am not proud to be Canadian. I'm happy to live in Canada, but I wouldn't use the word pride.
as to your previous statement, "I don't see the harm in it". I agree, there really is no harm in it. Unless you couple it with a message of derision of places that aren't the US.
to be clear, I'm not saying what you do or how you think is incorrect. I just like to get in the minds of those that think differently than I do. especially with this patriotism/nationalism thing.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
I'm not nationalistic and have been ashamed of being an American ever since I could read a history book. I was, however, raised by southern women to be a proper southern gentleman, so I am a stickler for etiquette, including the simple guidelines that apply to hats.
And while I will silently judge a man who leaves his hat on inside a restaurant or during the anthem at a game and generally come to the conclusion that he just wasn't raised right, I would never take it upon myself to attempt to enforce my proper upbringing on the offending ignoramus.
I was at a game at Yankee Stadium a few years ago, and when someone failed to remove his cap during the anthem, a knuckle-dragging goon a few rows back kept yelling "headgear! headgear!" at the guy. When that didn't get the ignoramus's attention, the knuckle-dragging goon stepped over a few chairs to move to within reach of the ignoramus and snatched the hat off of his head. That, to me, is more disrespectful of the flag, the anthem and what it's supposed to mean to be an American than simply failing to remove one's ballcap.
I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
Yeah but as we've learned, ankles were the gateway to the knees. Now you see knees everywhere!oftenreading said:
I hold the door for anyone behind me. I give up my seat to someone who needs it (not at a PJ show, though; that seat took work to get!). I obviously don’t talk during a eulogy - what sort of question is that?pjhawks said:
do you talk during moments of silences? how about during a Eulogy? I'm just wondering where you guys draw the line on acting with respect? what do you do and don't do? do you hold the door for women and the elderly or is that too much to ask you to be respectful for those thing? just curious...seriously.brianlux said:What about toupees and wigs? Should they be removed during the National Anthem? I yes "yes". And while your at it, take off your shoes and socks.
The difference is that all of those have real world consequences if you don’t do them. Taking off a hat or leaving it on has absolutely no real world consequences to anyone except possibly a warm head, and objecting to leaving a hat because it might cause offence is a baseless as prior generations objecting to a woman’s skirt length showing her ankle.
Oh, and I do take my hat off, but only so that I don't have to have a political discussion at a ball game. I don't sing the anthem, but if we're playing a Canadian team, I'm all over that one. It's a much better tune."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
pjhawks said:
do you talk during moments of silences? how about during a Eulogy? I'm just wondering where you guys draw the line on acting with respect? what do you do and don't do? do you hold the door for women and the elderly or is that too much to ask you to be respectful for those thing? just curious...seriously.brianlux said:What about toupees and wigs? Should they be removed during the National Anthem? I yes "yes". And while your at it, take off your shoes and socks.No I do not talk during moments of silence nor during a Eulogy. No way! I don't wear a hat so nothing to take off. At ball games I stand but do not place my hand over my heart or sing the anthem- I figure standing is a good enough compromise and avoids drawing attention. I hold the door for men women and children- you bet! I don't close my eyes when people say grace- I just bow my head a bit and keep quiet. Grace means nothing to me but I respect that it does to others so i don't interfere. I fart silently in public but let it rip when alone. I sometimes say "bless you" when people sneeze but not "God bless you" (yes, I don make some compromises).So basically, I try to be respectful without making major compromises to my own beliefs. When people litter or don't recycle or when they drive gas guzzling vehicles for no damn good reason, I think they are being far more disrespectful than me not saying grace or singing the national anthem. FAR more disrespectful when people do unnecessary harm to the earth."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Solid stuff right there.dankind said:I'm not nationalistic and have been ashamed of being an American ever since I could read a history book. I was, however, raised by southern women to be a proper southern gentleman, so I am a stickler for etiquette, including the simple guidelines that apply to hats.
And while I will silently judge a man who leaves his hat on inside a restaurant or during the anthem at a game and generally come to the conclusion that he just wasn't raised right, I would never take it upon myself to attempt to enforce my proper upbringing on the offending ignoramus.
I was at a game at Yankee Stadium a few years ago, and when someone failed to remove his cap during the anthem, a knuckle-dragging goon a few rows back kept yelling "headgear! headgear!" at the guy. When that didn't get the ignoramus's attention, the knuckle-dragging goon stepped over a few chairs to move to within reach of the ignoramus and snatched the hat off of his head. That, to me, is more disrespectful of the flag, the anthem and what it's supposed to mean to be an American than simply failing to remove one's ballcap.I'll ride the wave where it takes me......0 -
I am worldalistic, bioregionalistic, and communitialistic. The only -istics that make sense to me. Countries are simply artificial lines on a map. They have no basis in reality.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux said:I am worldalistic, bioregionalistic, and communitialistic. The only -istics that make sense to me. Countries are simply artificial lines on a map. They have no basis in reality.
https://youtu.be/0mhZBLUyybo
I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion.my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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Why is burping rude?
Because we were told. Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.The love he receives is the love that is saved0 -
The historical reason has something to do with medieval knights and removing their helms (or lifting their visors) as a show of respect and a gesture that they come in peace. I think someone else may have posted something in more detail along these lines earlier in this thread.oftenreading said:Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion.
I tend to follow most of Emily Post's guidelines for gentlemen (at least the ones that were around in the 1980s). Some are archaic, but they are second nature at this point. I try not to be compulsive about them, but that can be difficult. I've been admonished a few times by women friends and simply stopped holding doors, etc., for those who have taken issue.
Isn't burping viewed favorably as a compliment to the chef in some cultures? Or is that BS?F Me In The Brain said:Why is burping rude?
Because we were told. Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.I SAW PEARL JAM0 -
am I understanding this correctly? you've been admonished by women FOR holding the door for them?dankind said:
The historical reason has something to do with medieval knights and removing their helms (or lifting their visors) as a show of respect and a gesture that they come in peace. I think someone else may have posted something in more detail along these lines earlier in this thread.oftenreading said:Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion.
I tend to follow most of Emily Post's guidelines for gentlemen (at least the ones that were around in the 1980s). Some are archaic, but they are second nature at this point. I try not to be compulsive about them, but that can be difficult. I've been admonished a few times by women friends and simply stopped holding doors, etc., for those who have taken issue.
Isn't burping viewed favorably as a compliment to the chef in some cultures? Or is that BS?F Me In The Brain said:Why is burping rude?
Because we were told. Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
At one point it would have been considered disrespectful for a gentleman not to wear a suit and tie to work. How many of you fellows follow that rule?my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf0
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My dad told me just the other day that when he got his first office job, a fedora was part of the standard dress code.oftenreading said:At one point it would have been considered disrespectful for a gentleman not to wear a suit and tie to work. How many of you fellows follow that rule?
Dress codes are stupid. If you look like a slob, a company should be able to reprimand you...but it's always pissed me off that I have to wear pants when it's sweltering outside, and every female co-worker is in a skirt and sandals of some type.0 -
I work in an office, and it is rare to see even any of our near-retirement executives wear either of those.oftenreading said:At one point it would have been considered disrespectful for a gentleman not to wear a suit and tie to work. How many of you fellows follow that rule?Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall0 -
Yes, and it's especially been frowned upon in an office setting.HughFreakingDillon said:
am I understanding this correctly? you've been admonished by women FOR holding the door for them?dankind said:
The historical reason has something to do with medieval knights and removing their helms (or lifting their visors) as a show of respect and a gesture that they come in peace. I think someone else may have posted something in more detail along these lines earlier in this thread.oftenreading said:Can anyone explain what makes taking a hat off “respectful” in any way that doesn’t include a variation of “that’s what I was taught” or “that’s just what’s done”? By that I mean an explanation that links hat-wearing to any potential harm to anyone. Right now all the explanations appear to boil down to fashion.
I tend to follow most of Emily Post's guidelines for gentlemen (at least the ones that were around in the 1980s). Some are archaic, but they are second nature at this point. I try not to be compulsive about them, but that can be difficult. I've been admonished a few times by women friends and simply stopped holding doors, etc., for those who have taken issue.
Isn't burping viewed favorably as a compliment to the chef in some cultures? Or is that BS?F Me In The Brain said:Why is burping rude?
Because we were told. Don't have a better answer.
Burping sounds way better than some people speaking.
At one point, yes, but that's not the case anymore. And it hasn't been the case for a long time. Shirtsleeve business operations began in the 1960s, I think, perhaps even earlier. (I will say that it's only been a few years since I've come to accept a male guest on a talk show who fails to wear a tie, though.)oftenreading said:At one point it would have been considered disrespectful for a gentleman not to wear a suit and tie to work. How many of you fellows follow that rule?
The etiquette guiding when to remove one's hat, however, has not changed, as far as I know.I SAW PEARL JAM0
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