Brian check out the brown eyes/blue eyes YouTube link I submitted.
Is that the one that occurred right after MLK got assassinated (I can't find your link for some reason)? If so I am almost positive the teacher got fired for that. By the way, great video. I show that every year.
Yup.
I don’t know about her getting fired. The kids grew into adults that completely loved their experience and what it did for them.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,773
Brian check out the brown eyes/blue eyes YouTube link I submitted.
I just watched the whole thing. The teacher obviously makes a good point and it had a fairly "happy ending", but using kids in an experiment like that seems really messed up to me. Kind of like, "OK kids, we need to prove a point and we're gonna fuck with your heads for a while before we tell you it's all OK." Children as guinea pigs? Please, no!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
If I were teaching kids about the history of the cold war I would include in my lessons my own personal experiences with having to watch test broadcast of the the "emergency broadcast system" on TV and having to listen to practice runs of screaming air raid sirens going off and being told to close our eyes if we saw a bright flash outside our window and having to go through regularly scheduled duck and cover practices at school in case of a nuclear attack as if our little school desks were going to save us from nuclear annihilation. All of that was so lovely, just so fucking lovely.
Yeah I love teaching duck and cover. Brian do you have any memories of the Cuban missile crisis or was that before your time?
Before my time? LOL, thank you, McG!
I was 11 when that went down. That was when all that I described above went (dare I say it?) ballistic. My folks, teachers, pretty much all the adults we knew were all on edge all the time during those days. There was a general feeling of dread, literally an end-of-the-world feeling of dread in the air. Those days really messed with our pointy little heads.
OH damn you are a primary source!!! Where you drafted or did you pull a high number?
Brian check out the brown eyes/blue eyes YouTube link I submitted.
I just watched the whole thing. The teacher obviously makes a good point and it had a fairly "happy ending", but using kids in an experiment like that seems really messed up to me. Kind of like, "OK kids, we need to prove a point and we're gonna fuck with your heads for a while before we tell you it's all OK." Children as guinea pigs? Please, no!
Worksheets and lectures don’t always cut it though, Bri.
I’m not saying this is necessarily a lesson to emulate, but I am saying teachers need to take some chances sometimes.
No child was harmed in that experience. They’re all likely enriched for having gone through it.
Brian check out the brown eyes/blue eyes YouTube link I submitted.
I just watched the whole thing. The teacher obviously makes a good point and it had a fairly "happy ending", but using kids in an experiment like that seems really messed up to me. Kind of like, "OK kids, we need to prove a point and we're gonna fuck with your heads for a while before we tell you it's all OK." Children as guinea pigs? Please, no!
Worksheets and lectures don’t always cut it though, Bri.
I’m not saying this is necessarily a lesson to emulate, but I am saying teachers need to take some chances sometimes.
No child was harmed in that experience. They’re all likely enriched for having gone through it.
Jane Elliott is her name and I was wrong, she was not terminated as I had thought. She did receive a lot of backlash for the “experiment”.
Brian check out the brown eyes/blue eyes YouTube link I submitted.
I just watched the whole thing. The teacher obviously makes a good point and it had a fairly "happy ending", but using kids in an experiment like that seems really messed up to me. Kind of like, "OK kids, we need to prove a point and we're gonna fuck with your heads for a while before we tell you it's all OK." Children as guinea pigs? Please, no!
Worksheets and lectures don’t always cut it though, Bri.
I’m not saying this is necessarily a lesson to emulate, but I am saying teachers need to take some chances sometimes.
No child was harmed in that experience. They’re all likely enriched for having gone through it.
Jane Elliott is her name and I was wrong, she was not terminated as I had thought. She did receive a lot of backlash for the “experiment”.
In the short term.
In the long run, the lesson has been considered outstanding.
"My brain's a good brain!"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,773
If I were teaching kids about the history of the cold war I would include in my lessons my own personal experiences with having to watch test broadcast of the the "emergency broadcast system" on TV and having to listen to practice runs of screaming air raid sirens going off and being told to close our eyes if we saw a bright flash outside our window and having to go through regularly scheduled duck and cover practices at school in case of a nuclear attack as if our little school desks were going to save us from nuclear annihilation. All of that was so lovely, just so fucking lovely.
Yeah I love teaching duck and cover. Brian do you have any memories of the Cuban missile crisis or was that before your time?
Before my time? LOL, thank you, McG!
I was 11 when that went down. That was when all that I described above went (dare I say it?) ballistic. My folks, teachers, pretty much all the adults we knew were all on edge all the time during those days. There was a general feeling of dread, literally an end-of-the-world feeling of dread in the air. Those days really messed with our pointy little heads.
OH damn you are a primary source!!! Where you drafted or did you pull a high number?
I pulled a fairly low number. Low enough such that I was called in for the military style physical exam in Oakland, CA. That was a hoot. Nothing like being in a cold room with a bunch of other guys and being told to drop your drawers, bend over and spread your cheeks. "Enjoying the view down there, Serg?"
After that, I watched my number grow closer and closer. It got to within two numbers of mine and I was a nervous wreck and then, suddenly, one day in 1973, shortly after my 22nd birthday, I turned on the news and heard that the US military involvement had ended and with it, the draft. I was one lucky S.O.B. Other guys I knew, not so. They died for nothing. And those who lived, I know some of those guys too and they are not very well off mentally.
Some of the things we are "great" at are things not to be proud of.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
If I were teaching kids about the history of the cold war I would include in my lessons my own personal experiences with having to watch test broadcast of the the "emergency broadcast system" on TV and having to listen to practice runs of screaming air raid sirens going off and being told to close our eyes if we saw a bright flash outside our window and having to go through regularly scheduled duck and cover practices at school in case of a nuclear attack as if our little school desks were going to save us from nuclear annihilation. All of that was so lovely, just so fucking lovely.
Yeah I love teaching duck and cover. Brian do you have any memories of the Cuban missile crisis or was that before your time?
Before my time? LOL, thank you, McG!
I was 11 when that went down. That was when all that I described above went (dare I say it?) ballistic. My folks, teachers, pretty much all the adults we knew were all on edge all the time during those days. There was a general feeling of dread, literally an end-of-the-world feeling of dread in the air. Those days really messed with our pointy little heads.
OH damn you are a primary source!!! Where you drafted or did you pull a high number?
I pulled a fairly low number. Low enough such that I was called in for the military style physical exam in Oakland, CA. That was a hoot. Nothing like being in a cold room with a bunch of other guys and being told to drop your drawers, bend over and spread your cheeks. "Enjoying the view down there, Serg?"
After that, I watched my number grow closer and closer. It got to within two numbers of mine and I was a nervous wreck and then, suddenly, one day in 1973, shortly after my 22nd birthday, I turned on the news and heard that the US military involvement had ended and with it, the draft. I was one lucky S.O.B. Other guys I knew, not so. They died for nothing. And those who lived, I know some of those guys too and they are not very well off mentally.
Some of the things we are "great" at are things not to be proud of.
If I were teaching kids about the history of the cold war I would include in my lessons my own personal experiences with having to watch test broadcast of the the "emergency broadcast system" on TV and having to listen to practice runs of screaming air raid sirens going off and being told to close our eyes if we saw a bright flash outside our window and having to go through regularly scheduled duck and cover practices at school in case of a nuclear attack as if our little school desks were going to save us from nuclear annihilation. All of that was so lovely, just so fucking lovely.
Yeah I love teaching duck and cover. Brian do you have any memories of the Cuban missile crisis or was that before your time?
Before my time? LOL, thank you, McG!
I was 11 when that went down. That was when all that I described above went (dare I say it?) ballistic. My folks, teachers, pretty much all the adults we knew were all on edge all the time during those days. There was a general feeling of dread, literally an end-of-the-world feeling of dread in the air. Those days really messed with our pointy little heads.
OH damn you are a primary source!!! Where you drafted or did you pull a high number?
I pulled a fairly low number. Low enough such that I was called in for the military style physical exam in Oakland, CA. That was a hoot. Nothing like being in a cold room with a bunch of other guys and being told to drop your drawers, bend over and spread your cheeks. "Enjoying the view down there, Serg?"
After that, I watched my number grow closer and closer. It got to within two numbers of mine and I was a nervous wreck and then, suddenly, one day in 1973, shortly after my 22nd birthday, I turned on the news and heard that the US military involvement had ended and with it, the draft. I was one lucky S.O.B. Other guys I knew, not so. They died for nothing. And those who lived, I know some of those guys too and they are not very well off mentally.
Some of the things we are "great" at are things not to be proud of.
Coming to Canada to avoid the draft, was that an option that you considered.
If I were teaching kids about the history of the cold war I would include in my lessons my own personal experiences with having to watch test broadcast of the the "emergency broadcast system" on TV and having to listen to practice runs of screaming air raid sirens going off and being told to close our eyes if we saw a bright flash outside our window and having to go through regularly scheduled duck and cover practices at school in case of a nuclear attack as if our little school desks were going to save us from nuclear annihilation. All of that was so lovely, just so fucking lovely.
Yeah I love teaching duck and cover. Brian do you have any memories of the Cuban missile crisis or was that before your time?
Before my time? LOL, thank you, McG!
I was 11 when that went down. That was when all that I described above went (dare I say it?) ballistic. My folks, teachers, pretty much all the adults we knew were all on edge all the time during those days. There was a general feeling of dread, literally an end-of-the-world feeling of dread in the air. Those days really messed with our pointy little heads.
OH damn you are a primary source!!! Where you drafted or did you pull a high number?
I pulled a fairly low number. Low enough such that I was called in for the military style physical exam in Oakland, CA. That was a hoot. Nothing like being in a cold room with a bunch of other guys and being told to drop your drawers, bend over and spread your cheeks. "Enjoying the view down there, Serg?"
After that, I watched my number grow closer and closer. It got to within two numbers of mine and I was a nervous wreck and then, suddenly, one day in 1973, shortly after my 22nd birthday, I turned on the news and heard that the US military involvement had ended and with it, the draft. I was one lucky S.O.B. Other guys I knew, not so. They died for nothing. And those who lived, I know some of those guys too and they are not very well off mentally.
Some of the things we are "great" at are things not to be proud of.
Damn, that must have been so stressful knowing your number was creeping closer and closer. My dad was drafted and fortunately got into the national guard a few days before his unit shipped out to south Vietnam.
people still dying from unexploded bombs, effects of agent orange still rearing it's ugly head and countless dead in a war that should not have been fought.
people still dying from unexploded bombs, effects of agent orange still rearing it's ugly head and countless dead in a war that should not have been fought.
The world is better with Brian
Agreed.
There were a lot of Brians on either side of the equation that we never got to know... or came back so changed they never came close to realizing their potential.
people still dying from unexploded bombs, effects of agent orange still rearing it's ugly head and countless dead in a war that should not have been fought.
The world is better with Brian
Agreed.
There were a lot of Brians on either side of the equation that we never got to know... or came back so changed they never came close to realizing their potential.
I'm happy that Brian was spared. We're better for his presence. It's sad that there are others that no one will ever know.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,773
Thanks guys. A lot of it was luck. Dumb luck.
Some of that luck surely was as a result of some of the men and women who were just a bit older and more savvy than I was and helped bring that war to an earlier close than it might have without them. The first such person that comes to my mind is Bill Zimmermann. His book, Troublemaker, is an excellent account of the resistance to that war and a great read:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I never cared much for 'Miracle'. Always found it cheesy. However, I've watched the documentary, 'Do You Believe in Miracles', probably 20 -30 times. It gives a much better insight into the political environment of the time as well as interviewing both Americans and Russians. While it still leans to the American view, it's entirely captivating. On a side note: I was at the US-Soviet game at Madison Square Garden two weeks before the Olympics started where the Americans got their asses handed to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-K-mm8Bqik
"One should call things by their proper name. What is happening right now in Vietnam is a form of torture. ---
What they do is to torment people, torment a nation to humiliate it, to force it into submission to its orders. ---
And therefore the bombings are an evil act. And of that we have many examples in modern history. And they are generally associated with a name/place: Guernica, Oradour, Babij Jar, Katyń, Lidice, Sharpeville, Treblinka. There where violence has triumphed. But the worlds judgment has fallen hard over those who were responsibility.
Now a new name is added to the list: Hanoi, Christmas 1972."
Swedish Primeminister Olof Palme's brief statement about the furious American bomb raid against Hanoi, Christmas in 1972, gave echoes all over the world. The text did not even take two minutes to read - but caused two years of diplomatic crisis. - We should be proud. He was the only European leader who dared to stand up and say what the whole world thought, says Anders Ferm, who wrote the first draft of the text.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I never cared much for 'Miracle'. Always found it cheesy. However, I've watched the documentary, 'Do You Believe in Miracles', probably 20 -30 times. It gives a much better insight into the political environment of the time as well as interviewing both Americans and Russians. While it still leans to the American view, it's entirely captivating. On a side note: I was at the US-Soviet game at Madison Square Garden two weeks before the Olympics started where the Americans got their asses handed to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-K-mm8Bqik
I don't like movies about real events generally. either to cheesy or schmaltzy. Documentaries are the way to go.
I never cared much for 'Miracle'. Always found it cheesy. However, I've watched the documentary, 'Do You Believe in Miracles', probably 20 -30 times. It gives a much better insight into the political environment of the time as well as interviewing both Americans and Russians. While it still leans to the American view, it's entirely captivating. On a side note: I was at the US-Soviet game at Madison Square Garden two weeks before the Olympics started where the Americans got their asses handed to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-K-mm8Bqik
I don't like movies about real events generally. either to cheesy or schmaltzy. Documentaries are the way to go.
They did a documentary about the guys and the event. I like that and I also really like the movie. Documentaries are my favorite also, for most anything.
I grew up having nightmares about having nuclear bombs dropped on Manhattan (which I'm right next to) and it was just a moment in time that was, rightly or wrongly, extremely uplifting.
I don't even watch hockey and I watched that match with my parents. And I got the same happy feeling when I watched the movie. It was an America/USSR thing. I don't think you could truly appreciate the emotions unless you were living in one of the two countries. IMHO
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,773
MACA
Make America Crisp Again!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I never cared much for 'Miracle'. Always found it cheesy. However, I've watched the documentary, 'Do You Believe in Miracles', probably 20 -30 times. It gives a much better insight into the political environment of the time as well as interviewing both Americans and Russians. While it still leans to the American view, it's entirely captivating. On a side note: I was at the US-Soviet game at Madison Square Garden two weeks before the Olympics started where the Americans got their asses handed to them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-K-mm8Bqik
I don't like movies about real events generally. either to cheesy or schmaltzy. Documentaries are the way to go.
They did a documentary about the guys and the event. I like that and I also really like the movie. Documentaries are my favorite also, for most anything.
I grew up having nightmares about having nuclear bombs dropped on Manhattan (which I'm right next to) and it was just a moment in time that was, rightly or wrongly, extremely uplifting.
I don't even watch hockey and I watched that match with my parents. And I got the same happy feeling when I watched the movie. It was an America/USSR thing. I don't think you could truly appreciate the emotions unless you were living in one of the two countries. IMHO
Canada is your closest ally, we fully understood the significance of that victory, at that time in history...
We all know that in 1994 the us had the better hockey team.
That's weak. The most impressive hockey team the US has ever assembled (talent wise no, but they were a great team, they had guts, character and a fantastic coach that knew how to beat the Soviets) was the miracle on ice.
I agree. Realize I was just poking fun at soul.
I absolutely enjoyed our 3 Olympic Gold Medals in hockey in the last few Olympics. But that team the US sent lake placid. Just impressive. I have watched the movie at least a dozen times...
Amazing movie!! I show it to my classes when I teach the Cold War. Again! Again!
a hockey movie for cold war teachings?
Oh hell yeah, kids love it. Fantastic movie.
Maybe you and I are the only people that understand the significance of that hockey victory in that time of history...
It was significant in exactly the same way the Kardashians are significant now.
We all know that in 1994 the us had the better hockey team.
That's weak. The most impressive hockey team the US has ever assembled (talent wise no, but they were a great team, they had guts, character and a fantastic coach that knew how to beat the Soviets) was the miracle on ice.
I agree. Realize I was just poking fun at soul.
I absolutely enjoyed our 3 Olympic Gold Medals in hockey in the last few Olympics. But that team the US sent lake placid. Just impressive. I have watched the movie at least a dozen times...
Amazing movie!! I show it to my classes when I teach the Cold War. Again! Again!
a hockey movie for cold war teachings?
Oh hell yeah, kids love it. Fantastic movie.
Maybe you and I are the only people that understand the significance of that hockey victory in that time of history...
It was significant in exactly the same way the Kardashians are significant now.
We all know that in 1994 the us had the better hockey team.
That's weak. The most impressive hockey team the US has ever assembled (talent wise no, but they were a great team, they had guts, character and a fantastic coach that knew how to beat the Soviets) was the miracle on ice.
I agree. Realize I was just poking fun at soul.
I absolutely enjoyed our 3 Olympic Gold Medals in hockey in the last few Olympics. But that team the US sent lake placid. Just impressive. I have watched the movie at least a dozen times...
Amazing movie!! I show it to my classes when I teach the Cold War. Again! Again!
a hockey movie for cold war teachings?
Oh hell yeah, kids love it. Fantastic movie.
Maybe you and I are the only people that understand the significance of that hockey victory in that time of history...
It was significant in exactly the same way the Kardashians are significant now.
hats your opinion...
Socks to be you
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
We all know that in 1994 the us had the better hockey team.
That's weak. The most impressive hockey team the US has ever assembled (talent wise no, but they were a great team, they had guts, character and a fantastic coach that knew how to beat the Soviets) was the miracle on ice.
I agree. Realize I was just poking fun at soul.
I absolutely enjoyed our 3 Olympic Gold Medals in hockey in the last few Olympics. But that team the US sent lake placid. Just impressive. I have watched the movie at least a dozen times...
Amazing movie!! I show it to my classes when I teach the Cold War. Again! Again!
a hockey movie for cold war teachings?
Oh hell yeah, kids love it. Fantastic movie.
Maybe you and I are the only people that understand the significance of that hockey victory in that time of history...
It was significant in exactly the same way the Kardashians are significant now.
hats your opinion...
You are welcome to refute it with evidence that the hockey match had an actual impact on the world and the state of the cold war beyond people's warm fuzzy surface thoughts and feelings, but I've never seen any.
We all know that in 1994 the us had the better hockey team.
That's weak. The most impressive hockey team the US has ever assembled (talent wise no, but they were a great team, they had guts, character and a fantastic coach that knew how to beat the Soviets) was the miracle on ice.
I agree. Realize I was just poking fun at soul.
I absolutely enjoyed our 3 Olympic Gold Medals in hockey in the last few Olympics. But that team the US sent lake placid. Just impressive. I have watched the movie at least a dozen times...
Amazing movie!! I show it to my classes when I teach the Cold War. Again! Again!
a hockey movie for cold war teachings?
Oh hell yeah, kids love it. Fantastic movie.
Maybe you and I are the only people that understand the significance of that hockey victory in that time of history...
It was significant in exactly the same way the Kardashians are significant now.
We all know that in 1994 the us had the better hockey team.
That's weak. The most impressive hockey team the US has ever assembled (talent wise no, but they were a great team, they had guts, character and a fantastic coach that knew how to beat the Soviets) was the miracle on ice.
I agree. Realize I was just poking fun at soul.
I absolutely enjoyed our 3 Olympic Gold Medals in hockey in the last few Olympics. But that team the US sent lake placid. Just impressive. I have watched the movie at least a dozen times...
Amazing movie!! I show it to my classes when I teach the Cold War. Again! Again!
a hockey movie for cold war teachings?
Oh hell yeah, kids love it. Fantastic movie.
Maybe you and I are the only people that understand the significance of that hockey victory in that time of history...
It was significant in exactly the same way the Kardashians are significant now.
hats your opinion...
You are welcome to refute it with evidence that the hockey match had an actual impact on the world and the state of the cold war beyond people's warm fuzzy surface thoughts and feelings, but I've never seen any.
Have you heard of Google? Try it...I like I said your opinion I could care a less about. You are more than welcome to google and post articles to back-up your case...
Comments
I don’t know about her getting fired. The kids grew into adults that completely loved their experience and what it did for them.
I’m not saying this is necessarily a lesson to emulate, but I am saying teachers need to take some chances sometimes.
No child was harmed in that experience. They’re all likely enriched for having gone through it.
In the long run, the lesson has been considered outstanding.
The big disgrace is the fact that good people were simply disposable. Some people were not.
Crusty old white men sacrificing other people’s sons. F**king brutal.
There were a lot of Brians on either side of the equation that we never got to know... or came back so changed they never came close to realizing their potential.
On a side note: I was at the US-Soviet game at Madison Square Garden two weeks before the Olympics started where the Americans got their asses handed to them.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46343036
An American is trying to win the world chess championship. It would be the US first title since Bobby Fisher in '72.
I grew up having nightmares about having nuclear bombs dropped on Manhattan (which I'm right next to) and it was just a moment in time that was, rightly or wrongly, extremely uplifting.
I don't even watch hockey and I watched that match with my parents. And I got the same happy feeling when I watched the movie. It was an America/USSR thing. I don't think you could truly appreciate the emotions unless you were living in one of the two countries. IMHO
Saw a swedish documentary about the soviet team a bunch of years back. Interesting stuff.
www.headstonesband.com