Why isn't America THE LAND OF THE FREE AND ONE NATION UNDER GOD number one on this list?
For a nation arguing to be the greatest ever, shouldn't it atleast crack the top 10?
Something-something-Bruce-Springsteen-albums
I've thought about what the measurements would be, like health outcomes, exposure to violence, health care spending, life expectancy, infant mortality, percent living in poverty, etc. but facts don't matter much in these parts.
It be interesting to see what makes this up.
It says - scoring categories based on electoral process and pluralism, civil liberties, functioning of government, political participation, political culture.
USA falls down the list on political participation alone - not even half of the country votes in presidential elections, nevermind mid terms, etc.
right but those are just words. How rated, etc You know the guidelines used as they scored. I’m not saying it’s good or bad, just interested in how they scored it
"One should call things by their proper name. What is happening right now in Vietnam is a form of torture. ---
What they do is to torment people, torment a nation to humiliate it, to force it into submission to its orders. ---
And therefore the bombings are an evil act. And of that we have many examples in modern history. And they are generally associated with a name: Guernica, Oradour, Babij Jar, Katyń, Lidice, Sharpeville, Treblinka. There where violence has triumphed. But the worlds judgment has fallen hard over those who were responsibility.
Now a new name is added to the list: Hanoi, Christmas 1972."
Olof Palme's brief statement about the furious American bomb raid against Hanoi, Christmas in 1972, gave echoes all over the world. The text did not even take two minutes to read - but caused two years of diplomatic crisis. - We should be proud. He was the only European leader who dared to stand up and say what the whole world thought, says Anders Ferm, who wrote the first draft of the text.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Why isn't America THE LAND OF THE FREE AND ONE NATION UNDER GOD number one on this list?
For a nation arguing to be the greatest ever, shouldn't it atleast crack the top 10?
Something-something-Bruce-Springsteen-albums
Take out the down under and you never get to see the sun for over half the year and the two that do get to see the sun have to hide from every creature that could potentially kill them (including orcs).
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
They’re putting their own marketing spin on that, Brian. Nothing in there shows that MLF increases or reduces hangovers, and also, sulfite use is generally higher when companies don’t want MLF to occur, as they need to kill off the natural bacterial that would lead to MLF in the bottle.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
I thought it was sulfates that give you a hangover?
No, research suggests not. Sulfites are a problem for people with sulfite allergies, but otherwise not much of an issue. Natural or introduced sulfites are present in many, many foods. We don't all get hangovers from dried apricots.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Dehydration, and congeners, mostly. That's why hangovers from rum, bourbon, etc. tend to be worse than from vodka and gin for the same amount of alcohol.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
They’re putting their own marketing spin on that, Brian. Nothing in there shows that MLF increases or reduces hangovers, and also, sulfite use is generally higher when companies don’t want MLF to occur, as they need to kill off the natural bacterial that would lead to MLF in the bottle.
I all but had to quit drinking red wine. This works for me and several others with similar experiences. The folks at Cantiga are some of the best and most respected vintners in a the well regarded Southern El Dorado/ Fairplay/ Amador growing region. They're small, family owned, and have limited production so have no reason to hard sell anything. And they do not charge for tasting and they specialize in wine/food paring. You just don't see these attributes at larger commercial wineries that are more big business minded. I don't think they're putting anyone on. And I'm happy to be able to enjoy red wine again!
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
They’re putting their own marketing spin on that, Brian. Nothing in there shows that MLF increases or reduces hangovers, and also, sulfite use is generally higher when companies don’t want MLF to occur, as they need to kill off the natural bacterial that would lead to MLF in the bottle.
I all but had to quit drinking red wine. This works for me and several others with similar experiences. The folks at Cantiga are some of the best and most respected vintners in a the well regarded Southern El Dorado/ Fairplay/ Amador growing region. They're small, family owned, and have limited production so have no reason to hard sell anything. And they do not charge for tasting and they specialize in wine/food paring. You just don't see these attributes at larger commercial wineries that are more big business minded. I don't think they're putting anyone on. And I'm happy to be able to enjoy red wine again!
Sure, I'm happy you are as well. But are you sure it's the lack of MLF is my point. Do you also struggle with whites that undergo MLF, like most chardonnay, sauvignon blanc and pinot gris? What about other reds that don't?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
They’re putting their own marketing spin on that, Brian. Nothing in there shows that MLF increases or reduces hangovers, and also, sulfite use is generally higher when companies don’t want MLF to occur, as they need to kill off the natural bacterial that would lead to MLF in the bottle.
I all but had to quit drinking red wine. This works for me and several others with similar experiences. The folks at Cantiga are some of the best and most respected vintners in a the well regarded Southern El Dorado/ Fairplay/ Amador growing region. They're small, family owned, and have limited production so have no reason to hard sell anything. And they do not charge for tasting and they specialize in wine/food paring. You just don't see these attributes at larger commercial wineries that are more big business minded. I don't think they're putting anyone on. And I'm happy to be able to enjoy red wine again!
Sure, I'm happy you are as well. But are you sure it's the lack of MLF is my point. Do you also struggle with whites that undergo MLF, like most chardonnay, sauvignon blanc and pinot gris? What about other reds that don't?
I'm fairly certain it's the lack of MLF but then viticulture science is not something I'm an expert on. Mostly I go with what works. The only white wine I drink is organics that have lower sulfates which also tend to induce headache. I'm also kind of a light weight when it comes to anything alcoholic. Which is why I'm more a cannabis fan. And I'm becoming a lightweight re. cannabis as well. I'm not sure why. Aging maybe?
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
They’re putting their own marketing spin on that, Brian. Nothing in there shows that MLF increases or reduces hangovers, and also, sulfite use is generally higher when companies don’t want MLF to occur, as they need to kill off the natural bacterial that would lead to MLF in the bottle.
I all but had to quit drinking red wine. This works for me and several others with similar experiences. The folks at Cantiga are some of the best and most respected vintners in a the well regarded Southern El Dorado/ Fairplay/ Amador growing region. They're small, family owned, and have limited production so have no reason to hard sell anything. And they do not charge for tasting and they specialize in wine/food paring. You just don't see these attributes at larger commercial wineries that are more big business minded. I don't think they're putting anyone on. And I'm happy to be able to enjoy red wine again!
Sure, I'm happy you are as well. But are you sure it's the lack of MLF is my point. Do you also struggle with whites that undergo MLF, like most chardonnay, sauvignon blanc and pinot gris? What about other reds that don't?
I'm fairly certain it's the lack of MLF but then viticulture science is not something I'm an expert on. Mostly I go with what works. The only white wine I drink is organics that have lower sulfates which also tend to induce headache. I'm also kind of a light weight when it comes to anything alcoholic. Which is why I'm more a cannabis fan. And I'm becoming a lightweight re. cannabis as well. I'm not sure why. Aging maybe?
Well, the good news, is, that's cheaper for you
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,289
Here's a little secret about red wine: Gives you a headache? It's the malolactic acid. Red wine made without malolactic acid (i.e. made the old-world way) is much less likely to give a head ache or hangover. Oh, the things they don't tell you!
Not really correct, Brian. Malolactic fermentation isn’t specific to red wines, and isn’t specifically a new world technique. MLF is the process of converting malic acid to lactic acid, which changes the taste and mouthfeel of the wine. It’s appropriate for some wines, mostly reds but also some whites like chardonnays, and not even all reds. Hangovers are complicated but more likely related to congeners and histamines.
Non-malalactic wines have worked well for me and others I know. I'm stickin' with 'em!
Here's where I learned about this (our favorite winery!):
In a nutshell, malolactic
fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines
of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines.
During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During
the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria
(usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML
is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic
fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers
inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start.
Because Leuconostoc oenos is so
rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to
avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH
and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change
occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger
acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process
imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple"
crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of
the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of
ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be
released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24°
brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this
problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were
non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming
popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to
non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then,
the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured
wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of
achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of
the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we
are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the
fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance
and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner
table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to
gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines
higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer
wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
They’re putting their own marketing spin on that, Brian. Nothing in there shows that MLF increases or reduces hangovers, and also, sulfite use is generally higher when companies don’t want MLF to occur, as they need to kill off the natural bacterial that would lead to MLF in the bottle.
I all but had to quit drinking red wine. This works for me and several others with similar experiences. The folks at Cantiga are some of the best and most respected vintners in a the well regarded Southern El Dorado/ Fairplay/ Amador growing region. They're small, family owned, and have limited production so have no reason to hard sell anything. And they do not charge for tasting and they specialize in wine/food paring. You just don't see these attributes at larger commercial wineries that are more big business minded. I don't think they're putting anyone on. And I'm happy to be able to enjoy red wine again!
Sure, I'm happy you are as well. But are you sure it's the lack of MLF is my point. Do you also struggle with whites that undergo MLF, like most chardonnay, sauvignon blanc and pinot gris? What about other reds that don't?
I'm fairly certain it's the lack of MLF but then viticulture science is not something I'm an expert on. Mostly I go with what works. The only white wine I drink is organics that have lower sulfates which also tend to induce headache. I'm also kind of a light weight when it comes to anything alcoholic. Which is why I'm more a cannabis fan. And I'm becoming a lightweight re. cannabis as well. I'm not sure why. Aging maybe?
Well, the good news, is, that's cheaper for you
Yeah for sure. That's why America is great! It's cheaper!
(I don't know what that means either, just trying to tie in to the thread topic, haha!)
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I wonder what percentage really believe USA is the greatest country? And any country member whilst I think of it. Because I certainty do not believe my country is the greatest.! I'm thinking lots of Americans actually believe it!
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I wonder what percentage really believe USA is the greatest country? And any country member whilst I think of it. Because I certainty do not believe my country is the greatest.! I'm thinking lots of Americans actually believe it!
Americans are being born into their "one nation under god"-Nationalism and getting it pushed on them much more than us Europeans. Do you sing your national anthem before Premiere League football (soccer) matches?
In Sweden we don't.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
I wonder what percentage really believe USA is the greatest country? And any country member whilst I think of it. Because I certainty do not believe my country is the greatest.! I'm thinking lots of Americans actually believe it!
Americans are being born into their "one nation under god"-Nationalism and getting it pushed on them much more than us Europeans. Do you sing your national anthem before Premiere League football (soccer) matches?
In Sweden we don't.
Yah, but in Sweden you guys wear speedos too. So there's lots of differences between countries we could list.
Comments
https://www.realsimple.com/food-recipes/browse-all-recipes/frose
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
went to two liquor stores yesterday looking for bc Pinot Gris and couldn’t find it.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
What is malolactic fermentation?
In a nutshell, malolactic fermentation (ML) is a secondary, bacterial fermentation that red wines of today are almost universally put through, as are many white wines. During primary fermentation, yeast converts sugar into alcohol. During the optional secondary fermentation, a strain of lactic bacteria (usually Leuconostoc oenos) converts the bright malic acid into a softer lactic acid.
The bacteria responsible for ML is found in most wineries and even vineyards, and so malolactic fermentation often occurs spontaneously; however, many winemakers inoculate their wine with the bug to give the process a jump start. Because Leuconostoc oenos is so rampant in wineries, it is difficult to control and if a winery wants to avoid it, it must take special and extensive measures in hygiene, pH and temperature control.
How does a wine change during malolactic fermentation?
During ML, a two-fold change occurs: 1) There is a drop in acidity, since malic acid is a stronger acid than the lactic acid into which it is converted. 2) The process imparts a characteristic flavor change; the wine loses its "green apple" crispness imparted by the malic and gains the "buttery" character of the lactic.
What purpose does ML serve?
Originally, the main purpose of ML was economic: softening the acidity of a wine allows it to be released sooner. This is helpful in some regions where ripening to 24° brix is not consistently possible. In California, we don’t have this problem and prior to the 1980s, most California wines were non-malolactic. However, malolactic fermentation started becoming popular here during that decade as a way to make wine more accessible to non-wine drinkers, and to make it even quicker to market. Since then, the malolactic style has become the norm and classically structured wines the exception.
So...why does Cantiga prevent ML?
Preventing ML is our way of achieving a classical structure to our wines while taking advantage of the ripe flavors we can achieve here in California. In other words, we are preserving the natural acidity of the wine and the purity of the fruit. A non-malolactic wine, with its livelier acidity, elegant balance and fruit-forward character, is generally better suited to the dinner table. Additionally, it can cellar for decades, allowing complexities to gradually unfold. And finally, acid is a natural preservative; wines higher in acidity do not require nearly the sulfite levels that softer wines require, thus making them easier on allergies.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
No, research suggests not. Sulfites are a problem for people with sulfite allergies, but otherwise not much of an issue. Natural or introduced sulfites are present in many, many foods. We don't all get hangovers from dried apricots.
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Sure, I'm happy you are as well. But are you sure it's the lack of MLF is my point. Do you also struggle with whites that undergo MLF, like most chardonnay, sauvignon blanc and pinot gris? What about other reds that don't?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Well, the good news, is, that's cheaper for you
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
astoria 06
albany 06
hartford 06
reading 06
barcelona 06
paris 06
wembley 07
dusseldorf 07
nijmegen 07
this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
In Sweden we don't.
Yah, but in Sweden you guys wear speedos too. So there's lots of differences between countries we could list.