Donald Trump

mrussel1

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

I actually think it's the Lemming state.  But maybe not.  Maybe he is the voice of those "Republicans".  The whole thing is scary, to be honest.  It doesn't worry me that the country is so partisan so much as it being linked to race.  

rgambs

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

I actually think it's the Lemming state.  But maybe not.  Maybe he is the voice of those "Republicans".  The whole thing is scary, to be honest.  It doesn't worry me that the country is so partisan so much as it being linked to race.  

The jingoism is just as scary to me.
For the first time in my life, I have an insight into how the world wars happened that came from my actual life and not a historical account.

mrussel1

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

I actually think it's the Lemming state.  But maybe not.  Maybe he is the voice of those "Republicans".  The whole thing is scary, to be honest.  It doesn't worry me that the country is so partisan so much as it being linked to race.  

The jingoism is just as scary to me.
For the first time in my life, I have an insight into how the world wars happened that came from my actual life and not a historical account.

True, although jingoism was just a rampant after 9/11, leading up to the war.  Remember the Dixie Chicks and how their career was basically destroyed in country music?  The difference here is the capacity of NK to level a country or even two with their weapons.  Iraq didn't have that capacity.  

brianlux

rgambs said:

An island full of Americans without power and water and Trump is tweeting about the NFL.
Idiot.

My first thought as well.

hurricanezeke

Go Beavers said:

hurricanezeke said:

the thing is, many democrats also support many of those agendas, but in a sensible, bipartisan manner. Obama himself has said ACA needs improvement. everyone knows immigration reform is needed. not this "let's gut all of Obama's policies no matter the cost" that Trump is trying to bash through. it's clear all he cares about is dismantling Obama's legacy, and calling that his own. he is a brutal failure already, and it's not going to get better. 

Yes I agree completely, but how to reform differs greatly on both sides of the aisle.  We all wish for a "sensible, bipartisan manner", but that isn't happening right now regardless of who is sitting in the oval office.  

Regarding what you said about 'welfare stability, and not growth', you know the rate of people on public assistance has been dropping for several years now. 

Not untrue, but that is short sighted.  There are many forms of public assistance, but let's look at food stamps alone.  
25M enrolled in 2005
47M in 2013 (all time high)
41M in 2016 

Down in 3 years, but nearly doubled 2005-2013.
$1 TRILLION is spent on PA each year.  

Please don't confuse this with eliminating public programs, or leaving people hungry.  But it's a staggering number and I don't think our systems do enough to lift people out of PA.   

rgambs

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

I actually think it's the Lemming state.  But maybe not.  Maybe he is the voice of those "Republicans".  The whole thing is scary, to be honest.  It doesn't worry me that the country is so partisan so much as it being linked to race.  

The jingoism is just as scary to me.
For the first time in my life, I have an insight into how the world wars happened that came from my actual life and not a historical account.

True, although jingoism was just a rampant after 9/11, leading up to the war.  Remember the Dixie Chicks and how their career was basically destroyed in country music?  The difference here is the capacity of NK to level a country or even two with their weapons.  Iraq didn't have that capacity.  

It was, it's been simmering ever since Hulk Hogan played the American flag guitar.

mrussel1

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

I actually think it's the Lemming state.  But maybe not.  Maybe he is the voice of those "Republicans".  The whole thing is scary, to be honest.  It doesn't worry me that the country is so partisan so much as it being linked to race.  

The jingoism is just as scary to me.
For the first time in my life, I have an insight into how the world wars happened that came from my actual life and not a historical account.

True, although jingoism was just a rampant after 9/11, leading up to the war.  Remember the Dixie Chicks and how their career was basically destroyed in country music?  The difference here is the capacity of NK to level a country or even two with their weapons.  Iraq didn't have that capacity.  

It was, it's been simmering ever since Hulk Hogan played the American flag guitar.

Most bad things can be traced to the Hulkster and Hulkamania broadly.

mrussel1

hurricanezeke said:

Go Beavers said:

hurricanezeke said:

the thing is, many democrats also support many of those agendas, but in a sensible, bipartisan manner. Obama himself has said ACA needs improvement. everyone knows immigration reform is needed. not this "let's gut all of Obama's policies no matter the cost" that Trump is trying to bash through. it's clear all he cares about is dismantling Obama's legacy, and calling that his own. he is a brutal failure already, and it's not going to get better. 

Yes I agree completely, but how to reform differs greatly on both sides of the aisle.  We all wish for a "sensible, bipartisan manner", but that isn't happening right now regardless of who is sitting in the oval office.  

Regarding what you said about 'welfare stability, and not growth', you know the rate of people on public assistance has been dropping for several years now. 

Not untrue, but that is short sighted.  There are many forms of public assistance, but let's look at food stamps alone.  
25M enrolled in 2005
47M in 2013 (all time high)
41M in 2016 

Down in 3 years, but nearly doubled 2005-2013.
$1 TRILLION is spent on PA each year.  

Please don't confuse this with eliminating public programs, or leaving people hungry.  But it's a staggering number and I don't think our systems do enough to lift people out of PA.   

A good piece of that rise is linked to the recession I imagine.  The timing seems to substantiate that. 

hurricanezeke

mrussel1 said:

hurricanezeke said:

Go Beavers said:

hurricanezeke said:

the thing is, many democrats also support many of those agendas, but in a sensible, bipartisan manner. Obama himself has said ACA needs improvement. everyone knows immigration reform is needed. not this "let's gut all of Obama's policies no matter the cost" that Trump is trying to bash through. it's clear all he cares about is dismantling Obama's legacy, and calling that his own. he is a brutal failure already, and it's not going to get better. 

Yes I agree completely, but how to reform differs greatly on both sides of the aisle.  We all wish for a "sensible, bipartisan manner", but that isn't happening right now regardless of who is sitting in the oval office.  

Regarding what you said about 'welfare stability, and not growth', you know the rate of people on public assistance has been dropping for several years now. 

Not untrue, but that is short sighted.  There are many forms of public assistance, but let's look at food stamps alone.  
25M enrolled in 2005
47M in 2013 (all time high)
41M in 2016 

Down in 3 years, but nearly doubled 2005-2013.
$1 TRILLION is spent on PA each year.  

Please don't confuse this with eliminating public programs, or leaving people hungry.  But it's a staggering number and I don't think our systems do enough to lift people out of PA.   

A good piece of that rise is linked to the recession I imagine.  The timing seems to substantiate that. 

Yes, very likely related.  Like many things, it takes longer rebound than it does for something to get bad.  I'd like to know how or if the existing programs were tweaked to help these situations.  

mrussel1

hurricanezeke said:

mrussel1 said:

hurricanezeke said:

Go Beavers said:

hurricanezeke said:

the thing is, many democrats also support many of those agendas, but in a sensible, bipartisan manner. Obama himself has said ACA needs improvement. everyone knows immigration reform is needed. not this "let's gut all of Obama's policies no matter the cost" that Trump is trying to bash through. it's clear all he cares about is dismantling Obama's legacy, and calling that his own. he is a brutal failure already, and it's not going to get better. 

Yes I agree completely, but how to reform differs greatly on both sides of the aisle.  We all wish for a "sensible, bipartisan manner", but that isn't happening right now regardless of who is sitting in the oval office.  

Regarding what you said about 'welfare stability, and not growth', you know the rate of people on public assistance has been dropping for several years now. 

Not untrue, but that is short sighted.  There are many forms of public assistance, but let's look at food stamps alone.  
25M enrolled in 2005
47M in 2013 (all time high)
41M in 2016 

Down in 3 years, but nearly doubled 2005-2013.
$1 TRILLION is spent on PA each year.  

Please don't confuse this with eliminating public programs, or leaving people hungry.  But it's a staggering number and I don't think our systems do enough to lift people out of PA.   

A good piece of that rise is linked to the recession I imagine.  The timing seems to substantiate that. 

Yes, very likely related.  Like many things, it takes longer rebound than it does for something to get bad.  I'd like to know how or if the existing programs were tweaked to help these situations.  

Yes, according to this document (which is a good read).  It said that the ARRA (remember Obama's bill) allowed able bodied individuals to get up to 18 months of SNAP vs the previous limit of 90 days.  This was due to the high unemployment.  I imagine that provision has expired.  It also discusses other policy changes that affect participation.  But reading this, it further stands to reason that the growth was related to the recession.  
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/25626/412613-SNAP-s-Role-in-the-Great-Recession-and-Beyond.PDF

Bentleyspop

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

rgambs said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

I actually think it's the Lemming state.  But maybe not.  Maybe he is the voice of those "Republicans".  The whole thing is scary, to be honest.  It doesn't worry me that the country is so partisan so much as it being linked to race.  

The jingoism is just as scary to me.
For the first time in my life, I have an insight into how the world wars happened that came from my actual life and not a historical account.

True, although jingoism was just a rampant after 9/11, leading up to the war.  Remember the Dixie Chicks and how their career was basically destroyed in country music?  The difference here is the capacity of NK to level a country or even two with their weapons.  Iraq didn't have that capacity.  

It was, it's been simmering ever since Hulk Hogan played the American flag guitar.

Most bad things can be traced to the Hulkster and Hulkamania broadly.

SERIOUSLY??!!
Now I have to add Hulk Hogan to this list.....

President Obama
Bill Clinton
Hillary Clinton
Kamala Harris
Comet PIzza
Emails
Benghazi
etc...

OnWis97

hurricanezeke said:

Bentleyspop said:

HesCalledDyer said:

hurricanezeke said:

rgambs said:

hurricanezeke said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

* Do any Trump supporters even come to this thread anymore? It's become a piling on thread. I'm okay with it, but I wish those fools would appear every now and detail their mindset so we can at least gauge people's commitment to stupidity or their learning process as they acknowledge their error. 

I am a Republican voter.  Why would I appear here and participate in this conversation if you believe I'm a "fool" before you've heard me out? This is the problem of this thread.  I live in a strong conservative community where many share the same beliefs.  I come here to lurk and read the views of those that don't think like me.  
I would never join this debate on this forum.  Your opinion is already developed... 

This sounds to me like a euphemistic expression of a lack of confidence in the strength of your arguments.

Wrong.  But again, my opinions are discounted before having heard them.  

Let's hear them.  I'm a roast, baste me.

I'd  like to hear them as well.
I'm interested in having a voter/supporter of his come on here and defend him and his words and behaviors in a clear, concise, and cogent manner. 
Not as a troll

I should have been more clear when putting myself out here.  I stated I am a republican voter.  I'm not the guy that defends Trump's every move.  Those are the people I think you're looking for.  I'm not that person.  So I'm not going to defend a lot of what is taking place.  I can't, I won't.  What has transpired is far from my hopes of a Trump presidency. Outside of my 401(k) growth, not a whole lot has been accomplished that I can be proud of.  I did NOT vote for Trump in the primaries.  I did not think he was a serious candidate.  

I won't go line by line how I feel about all the issues, but I still support much of the republican agenda.  Specifically replacement of the ACA, immigration reform, social program and welfare stability (not growth), among others.  Given my feelings on the issues, I would not have voted democrat in the 2016 election.  

He wasn't.  That's no longer a requirement.  Or even preferred.

OnWis97

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

Trump isn't a Republican.  I think we should all be able to dispel that notion.  His stance on trade alone makes eliminates him from that territory.  Trump is a Trumpist.  It's a low grade cult of whatever decision leads to the ability to declare victory, regardless of the principle.  I just don't understand how the lemmings fall in step at every turn.  No matter what he says, they support it.  It's really astounding.  And I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi with this statement, but it makes clear how a country like German fell to the forces of evil without a fight back in 33.  There are so many people that will support a person regardless of the position.  We are witnessing it first hand.  

Recent polling shows that the vast majority of republicans support Trump but don't support the party. Things evolve, this is now the republican party.


Republicans are signaling they prefer President Donald Trump's vision for the party, with 79% saying he is taking it in the right direction. A majority of GOP voters -- 53% -- believe Republican leaders in Congress are taking the party in the wrong direction.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/24/politics/cnn-poll-republican-party-approval/index.html

And yet most of the left doesn't think he has a chance to be re-elected. 

Go Beavers

mrussel1 said:

hurricanezeke said:

mrussel1 said:

hurricanezeke said:

Go Beavers said:

hurricanezeke said:

the thing is, many democrats also support many of those agendas, but in a sensible, bipartisan manner. Obama himself has said ACA needs improvement. everyone knows immigration reform is needed. not this "let's gut all of Obama's policies no matter the cost" that Trump is trying to bash through. it's clear all he cares about is dismantling Obama's legacy, and calling that his own. he is a brutal failure already, and it's not going to get better. 

Yes I agree completely, but how to reform differs greatly on both sides of the aisle.  We all wish for a "sensible, bipartisan manner", but that isn't happening right now regardless of who is sitting in the oval office.  

Regarding what you said about 'welfare stability, and not growth', you know the rate of people on public assistance has been dropping for several years now. 

Not untrue, but that is short sighted.  There are many forms of public assistance, but let's look at food stamps alone.  
25M enrolled in 2005
47M in 2013 (all time high)
41M in 2016 

Down in 3 years, but nearly doubled 2005-2013.
$1 TRILLION is spent on PA each year.  

Please don't confuse this with eliminating public programs, or leaving people hungry.  But it's a staggering number and I don't think our systems do enough to lift people out of PA.   

A good piece of that rise is linked to the recession I imagine.  The timing seems to substantiate that. 

Yes, very likely related.  Like many things, it takes longer rebound than it does for something to get bad.  I'd like to know how or if the existing programs were tweaked to help these situations.  

Yes, according to this document (which is a good read).  It said that the ARRA (remember Obama's bill) allowed able bodied individuals to get up to 18 months of SNAP vs the previous limit of 90 days.  This was due to the high unemployment.  I imagine that provision has expired.  It also discusses other policy changes that affect participation.  But reading this, it further stands to reason that the growth was related to the recession.  
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/25626/412613-SNAP-s-Role-in-the-Great-Recession-and-Beyond.PDF

It was definately due to the recession and wage lag. Most food stamp recipients are on it short term and also work. If the economy goes okay, it'll get to pre-recession levels in five years or so. Another problem is disproportionate high use in nearly every rural red county. It seems like they want to cling to dead economies.                                       

tbergs

All of this and the opposing party is still here:

http://time.com/magazine/

CM189191

hurricanezeke said:

Go Beavers said:

hurricanezeke said:

the thing is, many democrats also support many of those agendas, but in a sensible, bipartisan manner. Obama himself has said ACA needs improvement. everyone knows immigration reform is needed. not this "let's gut all of Obama's policies no matter the cost" that Trump is trying to bash through. it's clear all he cares about is dismantling Obama's legacy, and calling that his own. he is a brutal failure already, and it's not going to get better. 

Yes I agree completely, but how to reform differs greatly on both sides of the aisle.  We all wish for a "sensible, bipartisan manner", but that isn't happening right now regardless of who is sitting in the oval office.  

Regarding what you said about 'welfare stability, and not growth', you know the rate of people on public assistance has been dropping for several years now. 

Not untrue, but that is short sighted.  There are many forms of public assistance, but let's look at food stamps alone.  
25M enrolled in 2005
47M in 2013 (all time high)
41M in 2016 

Down in 3 years, but nearly doubled 2005-2013.
$1 TRILLION is spent on PA each year.  

Please don't confuse this with eliminating public programs, or leaving people hungry.  But it's a staggering number and I don't think our systems do enough to lift people out of PA.   

I agree, there’s no reason the federal government should maintain 79 different means-tested programs.  States should combine different forms of federal anti-poverty funding—food stamps, housing assistance, and more—into a single funding stream.  A guaranteed basic income would reduce government and offer citizens more control.  

Go Beavers

It's odd that the author is pushing the notion of some hidden welfare spending. All of the info he presents has been in the discussion for a long time. Something he breezed past was the fact that medical care is almost half of means tested welfare spending. Certainly a focus that would help the budget would be reducing medical costs. 

PJ_Soul

Go Beavers said:

CM189191 said:

Q: what do you get when you cross an African American, an NFL player and an astronaut?

A: one very angry citizen. 

'To Donald Trump,' by Leland Melvin, former NASA Astronaut and NFL Player
https://boingboing.net/2017/09/23/lelandmelvin.html

You have to include the photo of the guy with his dogs because it's awesome.

That's one of the best photos of all time, lol.

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Latest tweet from President Trump folks....


Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings! Please to inform that the Champion Pittsburgh Penguins of the NHL will be joining me at the White House for Ceremony. Great team!

I wonder why he thinks anyone should give a flying fuck about what this totally unacceptable man thinks is acceptable? Laughable.
As for the Penguins.... shame on them.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

Latest tweet from President Trump folks....


Great solidarity for our National Anthem and for our Country. Standing with locked arms is good, kneeling is not acceptable. Bad ratings! Please to inform that the Champion Pittsburgh Penguins of the NHL will be joining me at the White House for Ceremony. Great team!

I wonder why he thinks anyone should give a flying fuck about what this totally unacceptable man thinks is acceptable? Laughable.
As for the Penguins.... shame on them.

seems to be extreme narcissism. I really think he believes all americans are his subjects. 

just once, I want him to fuck up and utter the "n" word in public or within ear shot. that would be glorious.