Donald Trump

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  

He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.

I would love to see them but it would seem a bit odd to make them public. Although I heard that they were just going to release summaries rather than the actual returns.

Interesting that tRump recently commented that "you can't tell anything from tax returns" which is absolute bullshit.

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

until it's legally required, it doesn't seem relevant to anything unless, as mrussel said, it shows criminality. 

Agreed. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  

He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.

No, my argument is that he's a private citizen at this point.  What he failed to do during his presidency or the real run is immaterial to what D's should do today.  If he was currently president, then absolutely.  If it appears he's actually running, then go ahead and release them.  To me, he's a "nothing" today, damaged and useless.  If anything, it will give him a little life so he can play a victim.  

He’s a declared candidate for POTUS. The FEC gave him a 45 day extension to file his disclosures. Fuck him. He continues to get away with shit because nobody holds him accountable. Release his taxes and let the chips fall where they may. Use the excuse that the Congress needs to show why there needs to be some level of checks and balances as to who can be eligible to run other than age and where you’re born. An informed citizenry is important.

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

On a similar topic, I'm not sure that Trump's taxes should be publicly released unless it shows some sort of criminality (which, by definition it really can't).  It gives him ammunition that he is being unfairly persecuted.  I guess one argument is that he has declared himself a candidate, but does anyone think he's a real one?  

He’s also been claiming that he’d release them for the past seven years and that he would release them after the IRS finished auditing them. POOTWH should offer up a compelling argument as to why they shouldn’t be released, particularly as he’s made numerous claims to his wealth, charitable giving and no nefarious business dealings or massive amount of debt holdings. If the only reason is to save him from embarrassment to the aforementioned, fuck him. If your concern is setting a precedent and that anyone’s tax returns could be released, poppycock. And if you intend on running for POTUS, release your tax returns. Shouldn’t be an issue if you’ve got nothing to hide.

No, my argument is that he's a private citizen at this point.  What he failed to do during his presidency or the real run is immaterial to what D's should do today.  If he was currently president, then absolutely.  If it appears he's actually running, then go ahead and release them.  To me, he's a "nothing" today, damaged and useless.  If anything, it will give him a little life so he can play a victim.  

He’s a declared candidate for POTUS. The FEC gave him a 45 day extension to file his disclosures. Fuck him. He continues to get away with shit because nobody holds him accountable. Release his taxes and let the chips fall where they may. Use the excuse that the Congress needs to show why there needs to be some level of checks and balances as to who can be eligible to run other than age and where you’re born. An informed citizenry is important.

I do agree that candidates should release returns. And in his case he said that he would release them as soon as his audit was complete.

Of course he said that thinking the issue would just go away but it didn't. 

Go Beavers

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

mickeyrat

ownership of hotel properties where foreign governments are putting money in your fucking pocket would kinda go against the emoulments clause of the Constitution of the United States. You know, that document elected members of government swear to uphold preserve and or defend , including the president?

maybe I'm reading our founding document wrong.

mrussel1

mickeyrat said:

ownership of hotel properties where foreign governments are putting money in your fucking pocket would kinda go against the emoulments clause of the Constitution of the United States. You know, that document elected members of government swear to uphold preserve and or defend , including the president?

maybe I'm reading our founding document wrong.

I think the hotels he owns are public knowledge.  Tax returns are not going to show which gov't are staying the night at the hotels.  

mrussel1

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

Worst case would be an indictment, trial and acquittal. Just ask Durham about that.  The DOJ has a very high standard to prosecute.  

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

Worst case would be an indictment, trial and acquittal. Just ask Durham about that.  The DOJ has a very high standard to prosecute.  

Bull Durham was the consolation prize for there not being any Deep State conspiracy against POOTWH and to deflect from DISBarred's sabotaging and prematurely ending Team Mueller.

mickeyrat

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

ownership of hotel properties where foreign governments are putting money in your fucking pocket would kinda go against the emoulments clause of the Constitution of the United States. You know, that document elected members of government swear to uphold preserve and or defend , including the president?

maybe I'm reading our founding document wrong.

I think the hotels he owns are public knowledge.  Tax returns are not going to show which gov't are staying the night at the hotels.  

what you think or what I think is really irrelevant. Is Congress within its purview to release records such as these by law. Seems they can. And should.

The Juggler

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

OR....it opens the door for someone like Desantis to jump in the race by saying we cannot risk nominating someone who may very likely end up going to prison. 

Trump's slumping support, which is real at this point, is what will dictate this...not them suddenly discovering some morality. 

Gern Blansten

I still can't believe there haven't been consequences from the Mueller report. Maybe that is still possible?

mrussel1

mickeyrat said:

mrussel1 said:

mickeyrat said:

ownership of hotel properties where foreign governments are putting money in your fucking pocket would kinda go against the emoulments clause of the Constitution of the United States. You know, that document elected members of government swear to uphold preserve and or defend , including the president?

maybe I'm reading our founding document wrong.

I think the hotels he owns are public knowledge.  Tax returns are not going to show which gov't are staying the night at the hotels.  

what you think or what I think is really irrelevant. Is Congress within its purview to release records such as these by law. Seems they can. And should.

I agree that it's up to the Ways and Means committee now, but I'm not sure it is helpful to release the taxes of a private citizen.  I'm sure it will be weaponized by the right in some way. 

The Juggler

Gern Blansten said:

I still can't believe there haven't been consequences from the Mueller report. Maybe that is still possible?

Had it been done after he left the presidency, I bet there would've been indictments. 

Go Beavers

The Juggler said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

OR....it opens the door for someone like Desantis to jump in the race by saying we cannot risk nominating someone who may very likely end up going to prison. 

Trump's slumping support, which is real at this point, is what will dictate this...not them suddenly discovering some morality. 

The possibility of Trump going to prison actually will help him. Magas will be inspired not just to save him, but save our country. DeSantis has the challenge of trying to walk the line of criticizing Trump and how corrupt he is while trying to pull in maga voters. Just being a passive aggressive dick may not be enough. 

Go Beavers

Gern Blansten said:

I still can't believe there haven't been consequences from the Mueller report. Maybe that is still possible?

The Senate intelligence report had even more evidence, and all we got was crickets. 

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/report_volume5.pdf 

The Juggler

Go Beavers said:

The Juggler said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

OR....it opens the door for someone like Desantis to jump in the race by saying we cannot risk nominating someone who may very likely end up going to prison. 

Trump's slumping support, which is real at this point, is what will dictate this...not them suddenly discovering some morality. 

The possibility of Trump going to prison actually will help him. Magas will be inspired not just to save him, but save our country. DeSantis has the challenge of trying to walk the line of criticizing Trump and how corrupt he is while trying to pull in maga voters. Just being a passive aggressive dick may not be enough. 

While this would most certainly have been true for the past 7 years and still is, to an extent, I think people overestimate his current level of support. He still has a big base but it is finally dwindling. You can see it even in in congress with his guy, Mccarthy, struggling to get the speakership. Would not shock me if the reason Desantis is so quiet regarding Trump these days, is that he's just biding his time before jumping in....and jumping in after the guy has been indicted would make a lot of sense. 

Go Beavers

The Juggler said:

Go Beavers said:

The Juggler said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

OR....it opens the door for someone like Desantis to jump in the race by saying we cannot risk nominating someone who may very likely end up going to prison. 

Trump's slumping support, which is real at this point, is what will dictate this...not them suddenly discovering some morality. 

The possibility of Trump going to prison actually will help him. Magas will be inspired not just to save him, but save our country. DeSantis has the challenge of trying to walk the line of criticizing Trump and how corrupt he is while trying to pull in maga voters. Just being a passive aggressive dick may not be enough. 

While this would most certainly have been true for the past 7 years and still is, to an extent, I think people overestimate his current level of support. He still has a big base but it is finally dwindling. You can see it even in in congress with his guy, Mccarthy, struggling to get the speakership. Would not shock me if the reason Desantis is so quiet regarding Trump these days, is that he's just biding his time before jumping in....and jumping in after the guy has been indicted would make a lot of sense. 

I want to default to rationality, but for about half of the republican voters, there hasn’t been a point where Trump has gone too far, and I don’t think an indictment will be that thing to do it. The poll from about a week ago still has Trump in the lead if the field is crowded. 

Gern Blansten

The Juggler said:

Go Beavers said:

The Juggler said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

Go Beavers said:

Republicans saying Trump was bad but not breaking the law bad makes the reactions to him getting indicted even better. They’re setting the groundwork to side with him if that happens and will fuel him even more for his 2024 run. Watching them not be able to quit the guy is an amazing thing. 

I'm not convinced there will be a DOJ prosecution.  In fact, I'd bet against it.  I think the classified docs case is much cleaner. 

I’m giving indictment a 25% chance. Point being if it happens, republicans are already prepping support for his defense that it’s unfounded and too harsh. It pulls in even more primary support for him because he’s being targeted by Joe and the DOJ is politicized. “When will it stop?!”  

OR....it opens the door for someone like Desantis to jump in the race by saying we cannot risk nominating someone who may very likely end up going to prison. 

Trump's slumping support, which is real at this point, is what will dictate this...not them suddenly discovering some morality. 

The possibility of Trump going to prison actually will help him. Magas will be inspired not just to save him, but save our country. DeSantis has the challenge of trying to walk the line of criticizing Trump and how corrupt he is while trying to pull in maga voters. Just being a passive aggressive dick may not be enough. 

While this would most certainly have been true for the past 7 years and still is, to an extent, I think people overestimate his current level of support. He still has a big base but it is finally dwindling. You can see it even in in congress with his guy, Mccarthy, struggling to get the speakership. Would not shock me if the reason Desantis is so quiet regarding Trump these days, is that he's just biding his time before jumping in....and jumping in after the guy has been indicted would make a lot of sense. 

I agree that his base is lower than it's ever been. He's losing some marginal magats. It's not cool to support this piece of shit anymore unless your circle of influence is made up of other pieces of shit.

Halifax2TheMax

POOTWH's base is still 35% of voters. They're in it until death do them part.

The poll, conducted from December 8 to December 12 among 1,614 U.S. adults, found that 31% of registered voters polled have a favorable view of Trump, while 59% view him unfavorably.

That marks Trump’s lowest approval rating since July 2015, according to Quinnipiac, and is down from 37% who had a favorable opinion of him in July.

Republican voters also recorded their lowest approval of Trump since March 2016, during the GOP presidential primaries, though a 70% majority of Republican respondents still view him favorably (down from 77% in July).

Only 25% of independents have a positive view of Trump, which marks the lowest number since Quinnipiac started tracking the question in May 2015 and is down from 34% in July.

A 70% majority of registered voters polled do not want Trump to be the GOP candidate in 2024, though a 56% majority of Republican voters do (38% of Republicans do not).

A 47% plurality think that Trump committed a crime with his efforts to overturn the 2020 election results, while 43% think he did not.

Trump’s popularity in the Quinnipiac poll is lower than other polls have recorded, with a FiveThirtyEight analysis showing Trump has a 40.2% approval rating on average as of Saturday.

BIG NUMBER

51%. That’s the share of registered voters who believe Trump should be disqualified entirely from running for president based on his recent call to “terminate” the Constitution in order to reverse his 2020 election loss.

SURPRISING FACT

In contrast to Trump’s low numbers, President Joe Biden saw his highest approval rating among registered voters since September 2021—though only 43% approve of the job he’s doing as president, while 49% disapprove, according to Quinnipiac.

TANGENT

The poll also looked at billionaire Elon Musk’s approval rating in light of the Tesla CEO recently taking control of Twitter and garnering widespread controversy for his leadership of the platform. Only 36% of respondents have a favorable view of Musk, though that’s higher than the 33% who disapprove of him, while 25% had no opinion. Respondents were also split on Musk’s handling of Twitter, with 37% each approving and disapproving of how he’s running the platform, while 25% had no opinion.

KEY BACKGROUND

Trump announced his candidacy for 2024 in November even as he’s seen his popularity sharply decline in the wake of the midterm elections. Many of the candidates he endorsed lost their races and prominent Republicans have pointed the finger at Trump’s influence for the election not resulting in the “red wave” of GOP wins that had been expected, with Democrats instead holding the Senate and winning many high-level state races. While Quinnipiac’s polling still showed a majority of Republican voters backing Trump as the party’s 2024 nominee, other recent polls have instead found Florida Governor Ron DeSantis (R) pulling ahead of Trump with the party’s base, and a CNN poll released Wednesday found approximately six in ten Republican and Republican-leaning voters would prefer someone besides Trump to be the 2024 candidate. Trump’s falling popularity comes as the ex-president has additionally faced mounting legal scrutiny, with the Justice Department moving forward with multiple investigations into his attempts to overturn the 2020 election and his handling of White House documents that were brought back to Mar-A-Lago. Trump and the Trump Organization also face a $250 million civil lawsuit in New York for alleged fraud—after the Trump Organization was already separately found guilty of tax fraud in another case last week—and the Manhattan District Attorney’s office has renewed a criminal investigation into Trump himself.

Trump’s Approval Rating Lowest Since 2015 As Popularity With GOP Plunges, Poll Finds (forbes.com)