Donald Trump

mace1229

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

So I watched Trump’s propaganda video from yesterday. Ridiculous time to air that. Save that crap for your twitter feed. But I’ll say one thing, both the NY and CA governors seem think Trump’s doing an okay job. Is it possible he is?

I think he’s doing as good of job as anyone else would have. Even Dr Fauci admits they were misled by China and gave bad advice for months because of that.
He could have done better, but I don’t think anyone would have made a drastic difference based off the knowledge we had. No one was suggesting a shut down in January and February. A stockpile of equipment wouldn’t have magically appeared, especially when China was using all they had.
His biggest error is how arrogant he is when he talks, I don’t like listening to him, but I’m not sure how big of a difference that makes.

And the replies that come (not from you) are going to show why I think Trump wins in 2020. You can’t question the Trump is terrible narrative without being called about 50 names and people making fun of your religion for it.

I'm not going to make fun of you or your religion. But I will say that the bolded part is a bit crazy to me. I'm not sure if you have been reading the posts, or the news, but Trump's inaction in February created a huge problem and many more deaths than we would have today. His inaction or inattention in January to Navarro's report and recommendation. The reports circulating in national security departments in December worrying about military personnel deployed in Asia. The disbanding of the critical national security pandemic response team. The shelving of a pandemic playbook written by people who learned hard lessons during the Ebola outbreak. Playing hot potato between various agencies with the national stockpile. Combine that with the mixed messaging (do we need to bring out dates and quotes again?) where he was telling everyone that we'd go from 15 to zero cases, or that is was like a flu, or that if you're sick go to work anyway, etc... The dates of his campaign rallies and golf trips that were plentiful during a time where his absolute focus should have been on the health of the citizens of the country. And the daily press briefings where he spends most of the time expounding on unfounded theories, or contradicting medical/health professionals or berating governors rather than focusing on the problem at hand. There simply isn't any way that ANY other president would have made so many missteps along the way or would have made this about themselves rather than the pandemic. So I have to disagree about as strongly as I possibly can with your assertion that he's doing as good a job as anyone else would have. My assertion is that it would be very difficult to find someone who could have done a worse job. I simply can't find any logic or reason in your opinion about Trump's handling of this pandemic. It is as if we are talking about a completely different person.

I think it’s easy to be a Monday morning QB and say we should have done X Y and Z. But at the time no one was suggesting social distancing or much else. We were told until the end of January this doesn’t transmit person to person. We were told later it wasn’t really that bad and we don’t need masks. Didn’t Dr Fauci yesterday even say that? I only watched a couple minutes of it but I remember him saying the same thing. The mayor of NYC as late as March 10 was telling people to go out and this is just a cold. So yeah, I don’t have any reason think think of Hilary was president she would have sounded big alarms early on. Nobody was, at least not here.
Now I said  I don’t agree with a lot of the language Trump has used to describe it. I don’t know if that has a big factor or not though. But I just don’t see anyone else ordering shutdowns and stockpiling equipment in February when no one (WHO, CDC, etc) was suggesting it.

OK, well I don't think we'll get anywhere if you ignore not only what he didn't do, but also what he did do. February would not have been the time to start worrying about the national stockpile. That is something that should have been maintained for the past several years. Trump likes to say he inherited a broken process (yet ignored the tabletop pandemic response that occurred during transition and shelved the playbook), and inherited a depleted stockpile. Well, if it was depleted when he got it in 2016, what in the holy hell was he doing for the last 3+ years? If I buy a business with inadequate stock or poor processes, I don't get to blame it on the previous owner of the business 3 years later. Any to suggest that any of the governors had the same level of information and intel as the president (who should be but doesn't read his daily briefings) is silly. Trump is supposed to be a leader, but offers no leadership. He told the governors it was up to them to shut things down (so they would take the blame for the hit to the economy) but is now telling them he has the absolute authority to open things up (so that he gets the credit). That doesn't fly. 

I agree with this last part, he shouldn’t be arguing with governors about that. I think it makes him look childish and foolish. I said a few times his twitter and speeches are his weakest part. 
Should Trump have replenished the stockpile? Yeah probably. But I doubt anyone else would have either. Something we’ve been short on for 10+ years I doubt was on anyone’s radar.

Dr Fauci said he followed his timeline recommendations. So either you think he was lying (as much of the media is accusing him of today, but they loved him last week) or he’s telling the truth. I think he’s telling the truth,  no one was raising alarms in February. 

When you say nobody was raising alarms in February, that simply isn't true. The first case in the US was in my state, and the CDC confirmed on Jan 20 that it was COVID-19. Toward the end of Feb all hell was breaking loose at a nursing home 20 minutes from my house. I know by Mar 1 I was done interacting with people. The first Seattle Sounders home game was Mar 1, and I wasn't taking chances. I have season tickets, but I decided I wasn't going to be in a group of 50,000 people risking it. I skipped March 8th as well, and as we know, things were shut down after that. But I can tell you there was definitely concern in my area in February. We were getting no direction from the feds, so our governor had to act on what info he had and started locking things down. Trump was still telling people it was nothing to worry about.

As far as Fauci, you brought up masks and the mixed messages there. Clearly the early guidelines (we don't need to wear masks) were because of two factors - they didn't fully understand the ease of transmission, and they wanted to make sure that healthcare workers were prioritized for masks. The change came after we understood the virulent nature of the virus. Conditions change, knowledge changes and advice should change along with it. What Fauci was doing yesterday was trying to keep his job, likely because he feels he can do more good and be of more service in his current position than he could by alienating Trump and getting shitcanned. So I don't blame Fauci for stroking Trump's ego a bit. It is clear that it is a job requirement for every single person in his administration.

I agree with most of this. I don’t know about the stroking the ego. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but there’s no reason to believe that either. It’s all speculation. Even in your response you say they didn’t understand the virus until much later, which is why his timeline he gave makes sense. And your examples are late Feb and March.

You don’t have to scroll back far to, or tune into CNN more than a couple minutes or read a couple posts on FB to see people asking why he didn’t do more in January and Feb. no one would have done more, they didn’t know enough about the virus. For most of January the WHO was saying this can’t spread person to person.
It just strikes me odd that I see everyone say he didn’t listen to everyone. Then when Dr Fauci said he listened to all his recommendations it changes to “he was forced to say that.” There’s been zero evidence to support Fauci is part of any corruption.

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Halifax2TheMax

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Halifax2TheMax

When we last updated our database of President Trump’s false or misleading claims, it was on Jan. 19, the end of his third year as president. The president’s most frequently repeated false claim was that he presided over the best economy in the history of the United States.

The next day, the first confirmed case of the novel coronavirus was reported in the United States. So, with this update through April 3, we’ve added a new category — coronavirus — that already has more than 350 items. Much has changed in the world, with stay-at-home orders, massive economic disruption and topsy-turvy securities markets, but one thing has remained constant — the president’s prolific twisting of the truth.

As of April 3, Trump’s 1,170th day in office, our database shows that he has made 18,000 false or misleading claims. That’s an average of more than 15 claims a day, though since our last update 75 days ago, he’s been averaging just over 23 claims a day. That’s slightly higher than the 22 a day he recorded in 2019.

With millions of Americans suddenly unemployed or facing cuts in pay, the president’s claims of an economic boom are woefully out of date. But that has not stopped him from recalling the pre-coronavirus environment with rose-colored glasses. “Again, we had the strongest economy in the world,” he said at a news conference on April 3. “We had our best ever. We had probably the best economy in the history of the world, bigger than China, bigger than anybody.”

Such economic statistics were a mainstay of the president’s campaign rallies, which were always a rich source of suspect claims. Before the pandemic forced the president to stop holding such events, he held seven rallies between Jan. 30 and March 2. Reading his remarks at those rallies now is like opening a time capsule, as he bragged about job numbers and a soaring stock market while dismissing the coronavirus as a problem akin to the flu that would magically disappear in April.

In a case of counting his chickens before they hatch, Trump repeatedly proclaimed he had the best unemployment numbers of any presidential term. But he was measuring his three-year average against full four- or eight-year terms. Given the swoon in the economy, it’s now doubtful he will have best record once his term is completed.

Grounded at home, the president has replaced the campaign rallies with his near-daily briefings at the White House on the pandemic. These news conferences have also been a rich source of misinformation. The president has over-promised (such as announcing a Google website that did not exist), sought undue credit or tried to pin the blame for the crisis on others.

For many weeks, Trump played down the emerging crisis. He frequently said there were only 15 cases and these patients would soon be better. He often claimed the low figure was the result of travel restrictions he placed on non-U.S. citizens traveling from China. At the time the virus was spreading rapidly through the United States, largely undetected because the Trump administration failed to quickly set up effective testing.

In early March, the case load started to explode. By March 4, there were more than 100 confirmed U.S. cases and six people had died. One week later, there were 800 cases and 27 deaths. By March 30, there were more than 165,000 cases and 3,000 deaths. By mid-April, the death toll in the United States topped 20,000.

Faced with a calamity, Trump suddenly began claiming no one had seen this coming. But there have been repeated warnings that the United States was not prepared for a pandemic, including by Trump’s own administration. Numerous news articles documented how Trump dismissed or played down warnings by experts in his administration that the novel coronavirus could turn into a pandemic.

The intelligence community’s 2019 Worldwide Threat Assessment said, “We assess that the United States and the world will remain vulnerable to the next flu pandemic or large-scale outbreak of a contagious disease that could lead to massive rates of death and disability, severely affect the world economy, strain international resources, and increase calls on the United States for support.” Luciana Borio, at the time the National Security Council’s director of medical and biodefense preparedness, said in 2018, “The threat of pandemic flu is the number one health security concern. Are we ready to respond? I fear the answer is no.”

Under fire for a sluggish response, Trump started to target the Obama administration, especially its handling of the 2009 swine flu outbreak.

“And if you look at swine flu — the whole thing in, I guess it was 2009, and what they did and the mistakes they’ve made, they were terrible,” Trump said on March 17, when the U.S. death toll from the coronavirus was 123. “They were horrific mistakes. Seventeen thousand people died. And I’ll be honest, they shouldn’t be criticizing because we’ve done a fantastic job. The only thing we haven’t done well is to get good press.”

In reality, Obama’s handling was widely praised at the time as the right mix of action and not overreaction. On April 26, 2009, when only 20 cases of H1N1 — and no deaths — around the country had been confirmed, the Obama administration declared H1N1 a public health emergency. The administration quickly sought funding from Congress, receiving almost $8 billion. Six weeks later, the World Health Organization declared a pandemic. On Oct. 24, after more than 1,000 Americans had been recorded of dying from H1N1, Obama declared a national emergency. The estimated death toll in the United States during the H1N1 epidemic was 12,469 from April 2009 to April 2010 — that is an after-the-fact calculation of the excess mortality possibly caused by the virus — but that was much less than a forecast of 30,000 to 90,000 deaths made in August 2009 by the President’s Council of Advisors on Science and Technology.

Trump also looked for scapegoats to excuse his administration’s slow efforts to expand testing, so again he targeted Obama, claiming the previous administration had put rules in place that thwarted testing. But there was no Obama rule, simply “guidance” documents concerning laboratory-developed tests from 2014 that never took effect and were withdrawn before Trump took office. The administration suggested, without evidence, that labs were confused because of previous regulatory actions by the Obama administration. But Trump had been president for three years, and his administration already had been working with Congress on legislation concerning lab tests. If there was confusion by labs, the administration could have easily taken the action on allowing emergency authorization to create coronavirus tests sooner than it did.

Eventually, Trump turned this talking point into simply saying he had inherited “obsolete” or “broken” tests — when no test existed for the virus until mid-January.

Trump’s top three most-repeated claims have remained the same.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/14/president-trump-made-18000-false-or-misleading-claims-1170-days/

Halifax2TheMax

Continued from previous post.

His most repeated claim — 291 times — is that the U.S. economy today is the best in history. He began making this claim in June 2018, and it quickly became one of his favorites. As we noted, he’s trying to update it in the wake of the economic swoon. The president once could brag about the state of the economy, but he ran into trouble when he made a play for the history books. By just about any important measure, the pre-coronavirus economy was not doing as well as it did under Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower, Lyndon B. Johnson or Bill Clinton — or Ulysses S. Grant. Moreover, the economy already was beginning to hit the head winds caused by Trump’s trade wars, with the manufacturing sector in an apparent recession.

About one in six of Trump’s claims are about immigration, his signature issue — a percentage that increased in early 2019 when the government was partly shut over funding for his promised wall along the U.S.-Mexico border. In fact, his second-most-repeated claim — 257 times — is that his border wall is being built. Congress balked at funding the concrete barrier he envisioned, so he has tried to pitch bollard fencing and mostly repairs of existing barriers as “a wall.” The Washington Post has reported the bollard fencing is easily breached, with smugglers sawing through it, despite Trump’s claims it is impossible to get past.

Lately, Trump has once again begun falsely claiming the Mexico is paying for the border barrier, even though he had to raid the federal Treasury and delay military construction projects to obtain funding over Congress’s objections. And he has used the coronavirus outbreak to justify his push for the fencing, even though the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other public health experts say they haven’t seen evidence it can stop the virus from spreading.

Trump has falsely said 197 times that he passed the biggest tax cut in history. Even before his tax cut was crafted, he promised it would be the biggest in U.S. history — bigger than President Ronald Reagan’s in 1981. Reagan’s tax cut amounted to 2.9 percent of the gross domestic product, and none of the proposals under consideration came close to that level. Yet Trump persisted in this fiction even when the tax cut was eventually crafted to be the equivalent of 0.9 percent of gross domestic product, making it the eighth-largest tax cut in 100 years. This continues to be an all-purpose applause line at the president’s rallies.

All three of these claims, of course, are on our list of Bottomless Pinocchios. It takes at least 20 repeats of a Three- or Four-Pinocchio claim to merit a Bottomless Pinocchio, and there are now 37 entries.

The president’s constant Twitter barrage also adds to his totals. Nearly 20 percent of the false and misleading statements stemmed from his itchy Twitter finger.

Trump’s penchant for repeating false claims is demonstrated by the fact that the Fact Checker database has recorded more than 450 instances in which he has repeated a variation of the same claim at least three times.

The award-winning database website, created by graphics reporter Leslie Shapiro, has an extremely fast search engine that will quickly locate suspect statements the president has made. We encourage readers to explore it in detail. For this update, we have added a feature that allows readers to search for claims on a specific date or period of time.

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

So I watched Trump’s propaganda video from yesterday. Ridiculous time to air that. Save that crap for your twitter feed. But I’ll say one thing, both the NY and CA governors seem think Trump’s doing an okay job. Is it possible he is?

I think he’s doing as good of job as anyone else would have. Even Dr Fauci admits they were misled by China and gave bad advice for months because of that.
He could have done better, but I don’t think anyone would have made a drastic difference based off the knowledge we had. No one was suggesting a shut down in January and February. A stockpile of equipment wouldn’t have magically appeared, especially when China was using all they had.
His biggest error is how arrogant he is when he talks, I don’t like listening to him, but I’m not sure how big of a difference that makes.

And the replies that come (not from you) are going to show why I think Trump wins in 2020. You can’t question the Trump is terrible narrative without being called about 50 names and people making fun of your religion for it.

I'm not going to make fun of you or your religion. But I will say that the bolded part is a bit crazy to me. I'm not sure if you have been reading the posts, or the news, but Trump's inaction in February created a huge problem and many more deaths than we would have today. His inaction or inattention in January to Navarro's report and recommendation. The reports circulating in national security departments in December worrying about military personnel deployed in Asia. The disbanding of the critical national security pandemic response team. The shelving of a pandemic playbook written by people who learned hard lessons during the Ebola outbreak. Playing hot potato between various agencies with the national stockpile. Combine that with the mixed messaging (do we need to bring out dates and quotes again?) where he was telling everyone that we'd go from 15 to zero cases, or that is was like a flu, or that if you're sick go to work anyway, etc... The dates of his campaign rallies and golf trips that were plentiful during a time where his absolute focus should have been on the health of the citizens of the country. And the daily press briefings where he spends most of the time expounding on unfounded theories, or contradicting medical/health professionals or berating governors rather than focusing on the problem at hand. There simply isn't any way that ANY other president would have made so many missteps along the way or would have made this about themselves rather than the pandemic. So I have to disagree about as strongly as I possibly can with your assertion that he's doing as good a job as anyone else would have. My assertion is that it would be very difficult to find someone who could have done a worse job. I simply can't find any logic or reason in your opinion about Trump's handling of this pandemic. It is as if we are talking about a completely different person.

I think it’s easy to be a Monday morning QB and say we should have done X Y and Z. But at the time no one was suggesting social distancing or much else. We were told until the end of January this doesn’t transmit person to person. We were told later it wasn’t really that bad and we don’t need masks. Didn’t Dr Fauci yesterday even say that? I only watched a couple minutes of it but I remember him saying the same thing. The mayor of NYC as late as March 10 was telling people to go out and this is just a cold. So yeah, I don’t have any reason think think of Hilary was president she would have sounded big alarms early on. Nobody was, at least not here.
Now I said  I don’t agree with a lot of the language Trump has used to describe it. I don’t know if that has a big factor or not though. But I just don’t see anyone else ordering shutdowns and stockpiling equipment in February when no one (WHO, CDC, etc) was suggesting it.

OK, well I don't think we'll get anywhere if you ignore not only what he didn't do, but also what he did do. February would not have been the time to start worrying about the national stockpile. That is something that should have been maintained for the past several years. Trump likes to say he inherited a broken process (yet ignored the tabletop pandemic response that occurred during transition and shelved the playbook), and inherited a depleted stockpile. Well, if it was depleted when he got it in 2016, what in the holy hell was he doing for the last 3+ years? If I buy a business with inadequate stock or poor processes, I don't get to blame it on the previous owner of the business 3 years later. Any to suggest that any of the governors had the same level of information and intel as the president (who should be but doesn't read his daily briefings) is silly. Trump is supposed to be a leader, but offers no leadership. He told the governors it was up to them to shut things down (so they would take the blame for the hit to the economy) but is now telling them he has the absolute authority to open things up (so that he gets the credit). That doesn't fly. 

I agree with this last part, he shouldn’t be arguing with governors about that. I think it makes him look childish and foolish. I said a few times his twitter and speeches are his weakest part. 
Should Trump have replenished the stockpile? Yeah probably. But I doubt anyone else would have either. Something we’ve been short on for 10+ years I doubt was on anyone’s radar.

Dr Fauci said he followed his timeline recommendations. So either you think he was lying (as much of the media is accusing him of today, but they loved him last week) or he’s telling the truth. I think he’s telling the truth,  no one was raising alarms in February. 

When you say nobody was raising alarms in February, that simply isn't true. The first case in the US was in my state, and the CDC confirmed on Jan 20 that it was COVID-19. Toward the end of Feb all hell was breaking loose at a nursing home 20 minutes from my house. I know by Mar 1 I was done interacting with people. The first Seattle Sounders home game was Mar 1, and I wasn't taking chances. I have season tickets, but I decided I wasn't going to be in a group of 50,000 people risking it. I skipped March 8th as well, and as we know, things were shut down after that. But I can tell you there was definitely concern in my area in February. We were getting no direction from the feds, so our governor had to act on what info he had and started locking things down. Trump was still telling people it was nothing to worry about.

As far as Fauci, you brought up masks and the mixed messages there. Clearly the early guidelines (we don't need to wear masks) were because of two factors - they didn't fully understand the ease of transmission, and they wanted to make sure that healthcare workers were prioritized for masks. The change came after we understood the virulent nature of the virus. Conditions change, knowledge changes and advice should change along with it. What Fauci was doing yesterday was trying to keep his job, likely because he feels he can do more good and be of more service in his current position than he could by alienating Trump and getting shitcanned. So I don't blame Fauci for stroking Trump's ego a bit. It is clear that it is a job requirement for every single person in his administration.

I agree with most of this. I don’t know about the stroking the ego. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but there’s no reason to believe that either. It’s all speculation. Even in your response you say they didn’t understand the virus until much later, which is why his timeline he gave makes sense. And your examples are late Feb and March.

You don’t have to scroll back far to, or tune into CNN more than a couple minutes or read a couple posts on FB to see people asking why he didn’t do more in January and Feb. no one would have done more, they didn’t know enough about the virus. For most of January the WHO was saying this can’t spread person to person.
It just strikes me odd that I see everyone say he didn’t listen to everyone. Then when Dr Fauci said he listened to all his recommendations it changes to “he was forced to say that.” There’s been zero evidence to support Fauci is part of any corruption.

What planet are you living on?

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

The Juggler

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

Yeah...pretty sure that's not what he thinks...

Smellyman

Saying the media are equally biased on both sides is like saying Dems and Rs are the same.  They are not.

One side use facts, logic and reason and makes their points.

The other needs none of that shit.

mace1229

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

jeffbr said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

So I watched Trump’s propaganda video from yesterday. Ridiculous time to air that. Save that crap for your twitter feed. But I’ll say one thing, both the NY and CA governors seem think Trump’s doing an okay job. Is it possible he is?

I think he’s doing as good of job as anyone else would have. Even Dr Fauci admits they were misled by China and gave bad advice for months because of that.
He could have done better, but I don’t think anyone would have made a drastic difference based off the knowledge we had. No one was suggesting a shut down in January and February. A stockpile of equipment wouldn’t have magically appeared, especially when China was using all they had.
His biggest error is how arrogant he is when he talks, I don’t like listening to him, but I’m not sure how big of a difference that makes.

And the replies that come (not from you) are going to show why I think Trump wins in 2020. You can’t question the Trump is terrible narrative without being called about 50 names and people making fun of your religion for it.

I'm not going to make fun of you or your religion. But I will say that the bolded part is a bit crazy to me. I'm not sure if you have been reading the posts, or the news, but Trump's inaction in February created a huge problem and many more deaths than we would have today. His inaction or inattention in January to Navarro's report and recommendation. The reports circulating in national security departments in December worrying about military personnel deployed in Asia. The disbanding of the critical national security pandemic response team. The shelving of a pandemic playbook written by people who learned hard lessons during the Ebola outbreak. Playing hot potato between various agencies with the national stockpile. Combine that with the mixed messaging (do we need to bring out dates and quotes again?) where he was telling everyone that we'd go from 15 to zero cases, or that is was like a flu, or that if you're sick go to work anyway, etc... The dates of his campaign rallies and golf trips that were plentiful during a time where his absolute focus should have been on the health of the citizens of the country. And the daily press briefings where he spends most of the time expounding on unfounded theories, or contradicting medical/health professionals or berating governors rather than focusing on the problem at hand. There simply isn't any way that ANY other president would have made so many missteps along the way or would have made this about themselves rather than the pandemic. So I have to disagree about as strongly as I possibly can with your assertion that he's doing as good a job as anyone else would have. My assertion is that it would be very difficult to find someone who could have done a worse job. I simply can't find any logic or reason in your opinion about Trump's handling of this pandemic. It is as if we are talking about a completely different person.

I think it’s easy to be a Monday morning QB and say we should have done X Y and Z. But at the time no one was suggesting social distancing or much else. We were told until the end of January this doesn’t transmit person to person. We were told later it wasn’t really that bad and we don’t need masks. Didn’t Dr Fauci yesterday even say that? I only watched a couple minutes of it but I remember him saying the same thing. The mayor of NYC as late as March 10 was telling people to go out and this is just a cold. So yeah, I don’t have any reason think think of Hilary was president she would have sounded big alarms early on. Nobody was, at least not here.
Now I said  I don’t agree with a lot of the language Trump has used to describe it. I don’t know if that has a big factor or not though. But I just don’t see anyone else ordering shutdowns and stockpiling equipment in February when no one (WHO, CDC, etc) was suggesting it.

OK, well I don't think we'll get anywhere if you ignore not only what he didn't do, but also what he did do. February would not have been the time to start worrying about the national stockpile. That is something that should have been maintained for the past several years. Trump likes to say he inherited a broken process (yet ignored the tabletop pandemic response that occurred during transition and shelved the playbook), and inherited a depleted stockpile. Well, if it was depleted when he got it in 2016, what in the holy hell was he doing for the last 3+ years? If I buy a business with inadequate stock or poor processes, I don't get to blame it on the previous owner of the business 3 years later. Any to suggest that any of the governors had the same level of information and intel as the president (who should be but doesn't read his daily briefings) is silly. Trump is supposed to be a leader, but offers no leadership. He told the governors it was up to them to shut things down (so they would take the blame for the hit to the economy) but is now telling them he has the absolute authority to open things up (so that he gets the credit). That doesn't fly. 

I agree with this last part, he shouldn’t be arguing with governors about that. I think it makes him look childish and foolish. I said a few times his twitter and speeches are his weakest part. 
Should Trump have replenished the stockpile? Yeah probably. But I doubt anyone else would have either. Something we’ve been short on for 10+ years I doubt was on anyone’s radar.

Dr Fauci said he followed his timeline recommendations. So either you think he was lying (as much of the media is accusing him of today, but they loved him last week) or he’s telling the truth. I think he’s telling the truth,  no one was raising alarms in February. 

When you say nobody was raising alarms in February, that simply isn't true. The first case in the US was in my state, and the CDC confirmed on Jan 20 that it was COVID-19. Toward the end of Feb all hell was breaking loose at a nursing home 20 minutes from my house. I know by Mar 1 I was done interacting with people. The first Seattle Sounders home game was Mar 1, and I wasn't taking chances. I have season tickets, but I decided I wasn't going to be in a group of 50,000 people risking it. I skipped March 8th as well, and as we know, things were shut down after that. But I can tell you there was definitely concern in my area in February. We were getting no direction from the feds, so our governor had to act on what info he had and started locking things down. Trump was still telling people it was nothing to worry about.

As far as Fauci, you brought up masks and the mixed messages there. Clearly the early guidelines (we don't need to wear masks) were because of two factors - they didn't fully understand the ease of transmission, and they wanted to make sure that healthcare workers were prioritized for masks. The change came after we understood the virulent nature of the virus. Conditions change, knowledge changes and advice should change along with it. What Fauci was doing yesterday was trying to keep his job, likely because he feels he can do more good and be of more service in his current position than he could by alienating Trump and getting shitcanned. So I don't blame Fauci for stroking Trump's ego a bit. It is clear that it is a job requirement for every single person in his administration.

I agree with most of this. I don’t know about the stroking the ego. I’m not saying it isn’t possible, but there’s no reason to believe that either. It’s all speculation. Even in your response you say they didn’t understand the virus until much later, which is why his timeline he gave makes sense. And your examples are late Feb and March.

You don’t have to scroll back far to, or tune into CNN more than a couple minutes or read a couple posts on FB to see people asking why he didn’t do more in January and Feb. no one would have done more, they didn’t know enough about the virus. For most of January the WHO was saying this can’t spread person to person.
It just strikes me odd that I see everyone say he didn’t listen to everyone. Then when Dr Fauci said he listened to all his recommendations it changes to “he was forced to say that.” There’s been zero evidence to support Fauci is part of any corruption.

What planet are you living on?

Earth. You?

Halifax2TheMax

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

One side does better than the other. Way better. I’ll let you figure out which side that is.

mace1229

Smellyman said:

Saying the media are equally biased on both sides is like saying Dems and Rs are the same.  They are not.

One side use facts, logic and reason and makes their points.

The other needs none of that shit.

I’ll have to disagree. There’s so much false information on CNN and MSNBC too. 

Just today I heard several reporters saying Dr Fauci “recanted” his comments from 2 days ago and said he was forced to by the whitehouse. That’s not true, he actually doubled downed on those comments and said it’s true if we sheltered sooner less would have died, but then clarified that wasn’t what was advised.
But anyone just watching a segment and didn’t see the Dr speak is going to think he recanted and there must be some evidence he was forced to.
Thats just today in the hour or so I watched the news this morning.

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

One side does better than the other. Way better. I’ll let you figure out which side that is.

I can only assume the other side might not agree with that statement. So who is right? I don’t see much changing with this being the stance from the majority on both sides. 

Halifax2TheMax

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

One side does better than the other. Way better. I’ll let you figure out which side that is.

I can only assume the other side might not agree with that statement. So who is right? I don’t see much changing with this being the stance from the majority on both sides. 

There are facts. And there is history. And there is documentation of a great number of things. And from these, comparisons can be made. Administrations don’t happen in vacuums. You (general you) can choose to be ignorant of all of those things at your peril.

FiveBelow

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

One side does better than the other. Way better. I’ll let you figure out which side that is.

I can only assume the other side might not agree with that statement. So who is right? I don’t see much changing with this being the stance from the majority on both sides. 

There are facts. And there is history. And there is documentation of a great number of things. And from these, comparisons can be made. Administrations don’t happen in vacuums. You (general you) can choose to be ignorant of all of those things at your peril.

Okay. Facts. History. Documentation. Got it.

F Me In The Brain

Hey Donald voters?

Nice job.  

Grab them by the pussy.

Really?

That wasn't enough?

Thanks.  Really, thanks.  You suck.

Truly,
A person who voted Republican until the party lost their minds and allowed a reality show fraud to be the representative.

GFY

CM189191

F Me In The Brain said:

Hey Donald voters?

Nice job.  

Grab them by the pussy.

Really?

That wasn't enough?

Thanks.  Really, thanks.  You suck.

Truly,
A person who voted Republican until the party lost their minds and allowed a reality show fraud to be the representative.

GFY

Is now a bad time to point out that Reagan was an actor who had dementia?

Better late than never I guess....

👍

F Me In The Brain

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Hey Donald voters?

Nice job.  

Grab them by the pussy.

Really?

That wasn't enough?

Thanks.  Really, thanks.  You suck.

Truly,
A person who voted Republican until the party lost their minds and allowed a reality show fraud to be the representative.

GFY

Is now a bad time to point out that Reagan was an actor who had dementia?

Better late than never I guess....

👍

He wasn't a fucking maniac.
But, you know, clip clop and all.  

Halifax2TheMax

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

JW269453 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Team Trump Treason falling back on “had we done nothing, the numbers would be 1.6 or 2.2 million and I said cut it in half. And blah, blah, blah.........”

Some on here will fall for it because people still fall off of turnip carts, apparently.

What cart did you fall off of? I don’t see any trump supporters in here yet you comment like they are running rampant. The “some” that you speak of just don’t throw a tantrum every time he speaks because we recognize the problems in this country don’t stem from one single person.

Its the denial of facts, history, common knowledge, readily available information in this age of instant access and the "both sides are the same," refrain. You (general you) don't have to be a Team Trump Treason supporter to be ignorant of reality.

Placing yourself in a box that only caters to your ideals is being ignorant of reality. You think one side is squeaky clean and I think they both have their faults. Which do think is more realistic?

One side does better than the other. Way better. I’ll let you figure out which side that is.

I can only assume the other side might not agree with that statement. So who is right? I don’t see much changing with this being the stance from the majority on both sides. 

There are facts. And there is history. And there is documentation of a great number of things. And from these, comparisons can be made. Administrations don’t happen in vacuums. You (general you) can choose to be ignorant of all of those things at your peril.

Okay. Facts. History. Documentation. Got it.

I forgot to add personal experience with things like CPI, wage/salary gains, unemployment rates, number of jobs created, interest rates, stock market performance as it relates to retirement funds, 401K, American service personnel deaths in foreign misadventures and the attempts or successes in assisting the least fortunate among us. What do you use as measures of comparison?

Halifax2TheMax

CM189191 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Hey Donald voters?

Nice job.  

Grab them by the pussy.

Really?

That wasn't enough?

Thanks.  Really, thanks.  You suck.

Truly,
A person who voted Republican until the party lost their minds and allowed a reality show fraud to be the representative.

GFY

Is now a bad time to point out that Reagan was an actor who had dementia?

Better late than never I guess....

👍

And announced his intention to run for POTUS outside of Philadelphia, Mississippi with a “state’s rights” speech.” How far have the repubs fallen, well, not really.