Donald Trump

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  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    Gaetz is being investigated by the Florida Bar for the tweet regarding Cohen

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/matt-gaetz-florida-bar-investigation_n_5c76e6bce4b010e7c5637515
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 32,093
    I’m more afraid of him refusing to leave office and actually declaring Martial law and having to use military force to remove him or would he order the military to protect him from being removed ..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,860
    For @Halifax2TheMax
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,961
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't understand how Trump supporters can use the "but Cohen is a proven liar" excuse to not believe Cohen, when the person they are using the excuse to defend is a proven pathological liar. What a complete absurdity. :dizzy:
    I think they are all just liars trying to save face...as well as Trump and most other politicians.  I’m just saying that Cohen’s testimony is not going to get us to the truth behind the allegations against Trump because he has lied under oath on numerous occasions.  What is funny is people believing Cohen’s every word as long as it fits their rhetoric...but then make excuses when he says he knows nothing about a Ptape, lol.  I don’t know what Trump did or didn’t do, but Cohen’s testimony is at least worthy of skepticism.
    I think people are inclined to believe at this point because, as others have pointed out, he no longer has any motivation whatsoever to lie during this testimony. At all. What is really funny is that those inclined not to believe him think it's more likely he's lying than telling the truth, because seriously, that just doesn't make any sense at all. But in any case, surely Cohen has yet more damning hard evidence against Trump? Remember he already handed over the tape where Trump is literally discussing paying off the porn star (it seems to me that many have decided to pretend that proof doesn't exist).
    Other than more material for the numerous book and tv deals he has received...and who knows what else is being held over his head that was never made public. Wasn’t there just a case of a movie star lying about getting beaten against his own self interest?  Who knows why people lie, but Cohen has done it over and over under oath in the past...that is not speculation.  You are willing to disregard that because you are biased and want it to all bring Trump down...that is speculative though.
    Trump has also done it over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Far more often than Cohen. So why would you be inclined to believe Trump over Cohen, especially when Cohen no longer has any motivation at all and Trump has the most powerful motivation one can imagine? That makes no sense.
    Where did I say I believed Trump over Cohen, stop making shit up for the love of God!  Essentially, I’m saying that I want the truth to come out, but Cohen lacks the credibility to do so due to his past crimes.  He is a shitty witness based on his track record.  If Trump gets up and lies under oath in front of congress on numerous occasions, would you choose him as an credible expert witness in any form or fashion?  You don’t have to believe everything Trump says to be skeptical of a known liar’s statements.  Again, how are you 100% certain Cohen has no reason to lie...it is politics after all.

    If you don't believe Cohen, doesn't that necessarily mean you believe Trump over Cohen??
    No, it does not.  Thanks for playing though.  Trump could very well be guilty of all of the things alleged, but that doesn’t discount that people are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Cohen’s testimony is not proof.  He has zero credibility.

    Wow, well then I think you need to start a petition against all witness testimony and all convictions ever connected to witness testimony in the history of the United States.
    That doesn’t even make sense...does every witness lack credibility due them being found guilty of lying under oath in the past?  
    No, but there's a long history of relying on witnesses with credibility issues both in judicial and congressional proceedings.  Hell, the "beginning of the end" for Nixon was when John Dean testified.  And he went straight to jail after that.  And he was an attorney.  
    In that respect, there is a long history of trials being overturned due to false witness testimony as well.

    Sure are, but in my example, Dean came out with his reputation improved, unlike Nixon.
    But I wonder...could reputation also be a motive for lying?  If you want to trust Cohen, that is your prerogative, but I remain skeptical of anything that comes out of his mouth, just like with Trump.  
    If he provides insurmountable physical evidence, then that is what is important...not his verbal testimony or “recollection”.

    Are you skeptical that Team Trump Treason smacked Melania around in an elevator? Are you skeptical now that a PTape exists? Are you skeptical that Cohen saw no collusion or had direct knowledge of Team Trump Treason coordinating with Putin on the ritz? Are you skeptical that Cohen has never been to Prague?
    Yes, are you? I maintain a pretty high level of skepticism when it comes to politicians, though.  Are you skeptical of any of the above mentioned things, #Ptape?  Everyone keeps saying that he has no reason to lie now...
    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/27/politics/michael-cohen-prague-testimony-russia/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
    I think it’s quite possible that Team Trump Treason smacked Melania around in an elevator and that there’s a PTape, his personality and how he conducts himself lends credence to the allegations. Cohen’s not knowing or truthfulness about those episodes don’t bear weight. So you do believe its possible that Team Trump Treason smacked Melania around, right? I want to be sure that I understand because it appears you might believe Cohen lies about some things and not others?
    Yeah that's how it usually works with people.  And I honestly have no idea why they were even talking about half of the stuff...I guess to fill the air time needed.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,961
    josevolution said:
    I’m more afraid of him refusing to leave office and actually declaring Martial law and having to use military force to remove him or would he order the military to protect him from being removed ..
    That's not going to happen.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    This place is like the twilight zone full of paranoia.

    If he voted in the next Election, he is leaving voluntarily or in handcuffs.


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,126
    tempo_n_groove said:
    For @Halifax2TheMax
    Awesome!
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  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 32,093
    cincybearcat said:
    josevolution said:
    I’m more afraid of him refusing to leave office and actually declaring Martial law and having to use military force to remove him or would he order the military to protect him from being removed ..
    That's not going to happen.
    Just like we thought he would never win the WH ? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited February 2019
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't understand how Trump supporters can use the "but Cohen is a proven liar" excuse to not believe Cohen, when the person they are using the excuse to defend is a proven pathological liar. What a complete absurdity. :dizzy:
    I think they are all just liars trying to save face...as well as Trump and most other politicians.  I’m just saying that Cohen’s testimony is not going to get us to the truth behind the allegations against Trump because he has lied under oath on numerous occasions.  What is funny is people believing Cohen’s every word as long as it fits their rhetoric...but then make excuses when he says he knows nothing about a Ptape, lol.  I don’t know what Trump did or didn’t do, but Cohen’s testimony is at least worthy of skepticism.
    I think people are inclined to believe at this point because, as others have pointed out, he no longer has any motivation whatsoever to lie during this testimony. At all. What is really funny is that those inclined not to believe him think it's more likely he's lying than telling the truth, because seriously, that just doesn't make any sense at all. But in any case, surely Cohen has yet more damning hard evidence against Trump? Remember he already handed over the tape where Trump is literally discussing paying off the porn star (it seems to me that many have decided to pretend that proof doesn't exist).
    Other than more material for the numerous book and tv deals he has received...and who knows what else is being held over his head that was never made public. Wasn’t there just a case of a movie star lying about getting beaten against his own self interest?  Who knows why people lie, but Cohen has done it over and over under oath in the past...that is not speculation.  You are willing to disregard that because you are biased and want it to all bring Trump down...that is speculative though.
    Trump has also done it over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Far more often than Cohen. So why would you be inclined to believe Trump over Cohen, especially when Cohen no longer has any motivation at all and Trump has the most powerful motivation one can imagine? That makes no sense.
    Where did I say I believed Trump over Cohen, stop making shit up for the love of God!  Essentially, I’m saying that I want the truth to come out, but Cohen lacks the credibility to do so due to his past crimes.  He is a shitty witness based on his track record.  If Trump gets up and lies under oath in front of congress on numerous occasions, would you choose him as an credible expert witness in any form or fashion?  You don’t have to believe everything Trump says to be skeptical of a known liar’s statements.  Again, how are you 100% certain Cohen has no reason to lie...it is politics after all.

    If you don't believe Cohen, doesn't that necessarily mean you believe Trump over Cohen??
    No, it does not.  Thanks for playing though.  Trump could very well be guilty of all of the things alleged, but that doesn’t discount that people are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Cohen’s testimony is not proof.  He has zero credibility.

    Wow, well then I think you need to start a petition against all witness testimony and all convictions ever connected to witness testimony in the history of the United States.
    That doesn’t even make sense...does every witness lack credibility due them being found guilty of lying under oath in the past?  
    No, but there's a long history of relying on witnesses with credibility issues both in judicial and congressional proceedings.  Hell, the "beginning of the end" for Nixon was when John Dean testified.  And he went straight to jail after that.  And he was an attorney.  
    In that respect, there is a long history of trials being overturned due to false witness testimony as well.

    Sure are, but in my example, Dean came out with his reputation improved, unlike Nixon.
    But I wonder...could reputation also be a motive for lying?  If you want to trust Cohen, that is your prerogative, but I remain skeptical of anything that comes out of his mouth, just like with Trump.  
    If he provides insurmountable physical evidence, then that is what is important...not his verbal testimony or “recollection”.

    Are you skeptical that Team Trump Treason smacked Melania around in an elevator? Are you skeptical now that a PTape exists? Are you skeptical that Cohen saw no collusion or had direct knowledge of Team Trump Treason coordinating with Putin on the ritz? Are you skeptical that Cohen has never been to Prague?
    Yes, are you? I maintain a pretty high level of skepticism when it comes to politicians, though.  Are you skeptical of any of the above mentioned things, #Ptape?  Everyone keeps saying that he has no reason to lie now...
    https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/02/27/politics/michael-cohen-prague-testimony-russia/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F
    I think it’s quite possible that Team Trump Treason smacked Melania around in an elevator and that there’s a PTape, his personality and how he conducts himself lends credence to the allegations. Cohen’s not knowing or truthfulness about those episodes don’t bear weight. So you do believe its possible that Team Trump Treason smacked Melania around, right? I want to be sure that I understand because it appears you might believe Cohen lies about some things and not others?
    I don’t know where you get the idea that I believe certain things in his testimony over others, but it sure seems like you do.  If you put weight in his other statements as being truthful, then you must give credence in his statements that debunk the dossier  (never being in Prague and no knowledge of a Ptape).  I, for one, am skeptical of every statement he made because I think he has no credibility what so ever.  So, do you believe he was telling the truth throughout yesterday’s questioning or do you not?  If you are on the side of thinking he was telling the truth, does it raise skepticism of the dossier, or are you going to pick and choose based what you inherently believe in?  Is it possible that Trump did not smack Melanie around and that there is no Ptape?

    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,961
    josevolution said:
    cincybearcat said:
    josevolution said:
    I’m more afraid of him refusing to leave office and actually declaring Martial law and having to use military force to remove him or would he order the military to protect him from being removed ..
    That's not going to happen.
    Just like we thought he would never win the WH ? 
    I think that it's pretty clear that one of those things is far more likely in any scenario than the other.

    I would have bet Trump wasn't elected and I would have lost that bet.

    But I'm still willing to bet Trump doesn't fail to step down, declare martial law and become a dictator should he lose. Wanna take that bet?  I really want a PJ Rome '18 poster and could use the $.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,696
    edited February 2019
    oftenreading said:
    Gaetz is being investigated by the Florida Bar for the tweet regarding Cohen

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/matt-gaetz-florida-bar-investigation_n_5c76e6bce4b010e7c5637515
    That tweet was a candidate for the 2019 Darwin Award: Social Media Category.  What a buffoon.

    But here's what that tweet makes me wonder.  What is behind that level of devotion to Trump?  That's what makes this all unprecedented.  The Red vs. Blue is just so heightened now.

    But this is a serious question.  What is behind that level of devotion to Trump?  And I'm not implying anything - I don't think Matt Gaetz is going down if Trump goes down nor that he was a part of Team Trump's Treason.  But he still shows a reckless level of devotion.  It's mind-blowing.
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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    cincybearcat said:
    josevolution said:
    cincybearcat said:
    josevolution said:
    I’m more afraid of him refusing to leave office and actually declaring Martial law and having to use military force to remove him or would he order the military to protect him from being removed ..
    That's not going to happen.
    Just like we thought he would never win the WH ? 
    I think that it's pretty clear that one of those things is far more likely in any scenario than the other.

    I would have bet Trump wasn't elected and I would have lost that bet.

    But I'm still willing to bet Trump doesn't fail to step down, declare martial law and become a dictator should he lose. Wanna take that bet?  I really want a PJ Rome '18 poster and could use the $.
    I still don't get why he would run again, or in the first place.  Everything Cohen said about his reasons to run to start made sense to me, that it was a way to increase his wealth and brand.  I was sure all he wanted to do was start a new media company.  I guess this is just about the old saying "poor man wants to be rich, rich man wants to be king".  
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059

    Otto Warmbier

    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    cincybearcat said:
    josevolution said:
    I’m more afraid of him refusing to leave office and actually declaring Martial law and having to use military force to remove him or would he order the military to protect him from being removed ..
    That's not going to happen.
    5000G
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/man-19-accused-of-assaulting-81-year-old-over-maga-hat-1.4316302?cid=sm:trueanthem:ctvnews:post&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5c7806c51adf640001b92959&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0z2KY1myC06d_2mK2f4IRVY6l6vGF7TcQ_9E7H-M0a0kfeGb6g5ZzJ_lY


    Man, 19, accused of assaulting 81-year-old over MAGA hat
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,961
    Tiki said:

    Otto Warmbier

    It is weird that Trump held the project managers on Apprentice more accountable for everything under their watch then he does world leaders.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • ikiT
    ikiT USA Posts: 11,059
    the micro-manager...Don Trump.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,444
    pjhawks said:
    benjs said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I don't understand how Trump supporters can use the "but Cohen is a proven liar" excuse to not believe Cohen, when the person they are using the excuse to defend is a proven pathological liar. What a complete absurdity. :dizzy:
    I think they are all just liars trying to save face...as well as Trump and most other politicians.  I’m just saying that Cohen’s testimony is not going to get us to the truth behind the allegations against Trump because he has lied under oath on numerous occasions.  What is funny is people believing Cohen’s every word as long as it fits their rhetoric...but then make excuses when he says he knows nothing about a Ptape, lol.  I don’t know what Trump did or didn’t do, but Cohen’s testimony is at least worthy of skepticism.
    I think people are inclined to believe at this point because, as others have pointed out, he no longer has any motivation whatsoever to lie during this testimony. At all. What is really funny is that those inclined not to believe him think it's more likely he's lying than telling the truth, because seriously, that just doesn't make any sense at all. But in any case, surely Cohen has yet more damning hard evidence against Trump? Remember he already handed over the tape where Trump is literally discussing paying off the porn star (it seems to me that many have decided to pretend that proof doesn't exist).
    Other than more material for the numerous book and tv deals he has received...and who knows what else is being held over his head that was never made public. Wasn’t there just a case of a movie star lying about getting beaten against his own self interest?  Who knows why people lie, but Cohen has done it over and over under oath in the past...that is not speculation.  You are willing to disregard that because you are biased and want it to all bring Trump down...that is speculative though.
    Trump has also done it over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Far more often than Cohen. So why would you be inclined to believe Trump over Cohen, especially when Cohen no longer has any motivation at all and Trump has the most powerful motivation one can imagine? That makes no sense.
    Where did I say I believed Trump over Cohen, stop making shit up for the love of God!  Essentially, I’m saying that I want the truth to come out, but Cohen lacks the credibility to do so due to his past crimes.  He is a shitty witness based on his track record.  If Trump gets up and lies under oath in front of congress on numerous occasions, would you choose him as an credible expert witness in any form or fashion?  You don’t have to believe everything Trump says to be skeptical of a known liar’s statements.  Again, how are you 100% certain Cohen has no reason to lie...it is politics after all.

    If you don't believe Cohen, doesn't that necessarily mean you believe Trump over Cohen??
    No, it does not.  Thanks for playing though.  Trump could very well be guilty of all of the things alleged, but that doesn’t discount that people are innocent until PROVEN guilty. Cohen’s testimony is not proof.  He has zero credibility.

    Wow, well then I think you need to start a petition against all witness testimony and all convictions ever connected to witness testimony in the history of the United States.
    That doesn’t even make sense...does every witness lack credibility due them being found guilty of lying under oath in the past?  
    No, but there's a long history of relying on witnesses with credibility issues both in judicial and congressional proceedings.  Hell, the "beginning of the end" for Nixon was when John Dean testified.  And he went straight to jail after that.  And he was an attorney.  
    In that respect, there is a long history of trials being overturned due to false witness testimony as well.

    Sure are, but in my example, Dean came out with his reputation improved, unlike Nixon.
    But I wonder...could reputation also be a motive for lying?  If you want to trust Cohen, that is your prerogative, but I remain skeptical of anything that comes out of his mouth, just like with Trump.  
    If he provides insurmountable physical evidence, then that is what is important...not his verbal testimony or “recollection”.

    I personally think Cohen's relationship with lies has changed. While they used to be an avenue to enrichment before, now it's only an avenue to extend his stay in the new digs.

    As for your last sentence - Does anyone familiar with the law know - would circumstantial evidence like the cheques hold up in court? Yes, it's extremely freaking clear that those payments were illegal, but if it's only definitive physical evidence which is used for verdicts, I find it unlikely that Trump will be charged with anything because extremely freaking clear isn't certain, and I think Trump's a guy who knows how to surround himself with people who know how to cover his ass.
    you do realize that Mueller and the NY Attorney's offices will have access to many more records including phone records. between the hush payments and talks with Stone.  They will have records of Cohen talking with Stormy's lawyers. they will have records of the supposed phone call from Roger Stone to Trump that Cohen mentioned.  Those teams will have access to much more corroborating evidence.  it won't just be Cohen's word.  so yes Cohen being a bit of wild card isn't great for the case but there will be so much more.

    Very good point. Cohen is 'icing', not 'cake' :) 
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    EV
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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Meltdown99 said:
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/man-19-accused-of-assaulting-81-year-old-over-maga-hat-1.4316302?cid=sm:trueanthem:ctvnews:post&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=5c7806c51adf640001b92959&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR0z2KY1myC06d_2mK2f4IRVY6l6vGF7TcQ_9E7H-M0a0kfeGb6g5ZzJ_lY


    Man, 19, accused of assaulting 81-year-old over MAGA hat
    This shit has to stop. 
  • josevolution
    josevolution Posts: 32,093
    I’m of the thought the Baffoon definitely wants to be supreme leader just like rocket man & Putin , he def can’t be trusted with the security of the nation..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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