Donald Trump

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  • FiveBelowFiveBelow Lubbock, TX Posts: 1,167
    edited June 2020
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    JW269453 said:
    JW269453 said:
    JW269453 said:
    https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN239347?__twitter_impression=true 

    Looks like the old law and order fake tough guy stuff ain’t working anymore. 55% disapprove of Trump’s handling of the protests. 

    -
    So 45% approve of his "handling of the protests? The fuck???
    What we know is 55% of the 1,004 people they asked disapprove. I get polls, but I don’t put a whole lot of stock into something that is assuming the feelings of the other 329,735,410 people that call this country home. Maybe it is just me but .00000304% of anything is a little too small of a sample size to run with. This is real life for those in areas where protests have turned nasty, but only a TV show for the others. One of those opinions holds a little more weight for me when it comes to the approval of how this is being handled.
    329 million + Americans don’t vote nor are they all eligible to do so. Keep clinging.
    Clinging? You’re right. I forgot some people think the opinions of non voters and minors don’t matter. Let’s just use the voters opinions only as a gauge then. The 2016 voter turnout was 138,847,000. We are now assuming the opinions of the other 138,845,996 elites. Does this new .00000723% move your meter that much? 
     Other’s opinions don’t get to pull the lever though do they? So, extrapolating as you did is flawed. You’re from Texas, right? Fuzzy math, I get it. Keep clinging.
    Morning sunshine! A poll is the perfect example of extrapolating, it is just one you choose to except. I am sorry my residence brings out your prejudice, it must be difficult trying to harbor all of those feelings. Forgive me for not moving the decimal while trying to remember such a ridiculous percentage, .000723 it makes such a difference in this instance doesn't it?
    Do you think statistics has a liberal bias or something?  There's no mathematical question that the sample size used is predictive.  In corporations, they generally use a 95/5/5 interval, so this appears to be 95/2/3 which is very precise.  The only squirlley part for any of these is how the participants define themselves politically, and therefore how you break down the demos.  
    As per usual, I'm confused as to why my comment was seen as pro trump or anti liberal. It is simple, I do not put much stock in something that can be viewed completely different depending on your situation. Most of us have never witnessed what is going on right now to this extent so assuming the approval or disapproval of literally everyone seems like buzzfeed quiz level nonsense. Then again I'm the one who doesn't have an agenda to fulfill so I take these things with a grain of salt while others shout from the rooftops.

    Polling, when done correctly by pros, is absolutely indicative of the larger population.  So there's no reason to believe that his approval is actually 65% when the poll says 45%, as an example.  Now I'm guessing the MOE is about 3-4%, so that means approval ranges from from 41-49% essentially.  Unless you're arguing the questions were unclear or leading... 
    Who did they poll? People who were watching their neighborhoods get destroyed, people who only dealt with peaceful protests, or people who have watched everything unfold from a place that is unaffected. In this specific situation, if the sample size does not include all 3 scenarios I would be leery of this being an accurate representation.

    Why would you do such a poll?  The poll was testing Trump's approval rating in his handling of the issue.  The issue affects all Americans, and it's tangentially connected to voting down the road.  That's why these polls are commissioned.  
    I don't know, maybe because a person who lives in downtown Minneapolis probably views this slightly different than someone in the middle of nowhere. Who participates in a poll greatly affects the outcome, are you denying this? It is my opinion that to get the most accurate representation you would need to make sure you are covering the spectrum. This issue does affect all Americans, but the level of affect it has on them is vastly different. Like I said, I take these things with a grain of salt. There are actually people who look at this as being a societal issue not just a political one.

    Of course they might, but you're not testing how a Minneapolis native feels about it, you're testing the nation as a whole.  Selecting sub groups and then extrapolating that would actually skew the whole poll. If you only polled AA urban men, the results would be highly skewed to the negative, completely corrupting your poll.  Instead, they target the polling and then control the results based on that demographics representation of the population as a whole.  An easy example is D, R, and I.  You may over sample D's, but then you control the results in order to have it match the base assumption (party registration).  That's why polls like Rasmussen are often criticized; because they have the R representation higher than the registration numbers, making it favorable to R's.  

    And to your last point, the LEVEL of the effect is irrelevant.  It doesn't matter if it affects me or you worse.  We each represent one opinion, and presumably one vote.  The poll isn't to determine how well Trump is doing.. it's to determine how well Trump is PERCEIVED to be doing.  Big difference. 
    This is precisely my point. Unless I know who was polled, I do not run with the results. Guarantee that the 1,004 people who were polled cover the spectrum and I am on board. 
    I think you're missing my point completely.  If they sampled 3 people living in MSP, that's meaningless because that sample is too small to be representative.  If you want to know how MSP residents feel about Trump's response, you would have to poll 1004 people in the metro area.  
    3 is too small of a sample size for MSP, but 1,004 is just right to represent the US as a whole...got it. 
    Dude... seriously... this is basic statistics here.  Here's an easy guide for you.  This is a handy tool.  I think it defaults to 95/5, but you can change that to 95/3 (margin of error) and it will mirror polling.  Now for the population size, start with a million people.  Then change that to 125 million (about how many voted).  You will see the number does not move.  Once you get above a certain population size, the increase is sample is pretty small.  

    http://www.raosoft.com/samplesize.html
    I said I get polling in my original post, I am not arguing against how we poll. This is a unique situation, one that most of us did not have a prior opinion on because it is something we have not seen and the individual affect is different than with most issues. I feel this is not the same as an opinion that has been formed over a lifetime, I know my opinion has changed over the last week as the picture has become clearer. I am sure others have as well.
    Most of us didn't have an opinion on police brutality?  Are we talking about the same thing at this point?  I think every issue affects different Americans in a disparate way.  As a 47 year old man, abortion doesn't directly affect me, nor does this particular issue, but I still have an opinion and still vote.  Same with Immigration, student loans, healthcare, etc.  They all have varying effects. 
    An opinion on how the protesting escalated to tearing cities apart in some instances and the response to those protests. All of the other examples you have had years to come to the opinion you have.
    Post edited by FiveBelow on
  • RunIntoTheRainRunIntoTheRain Texas Posts: 1,009
    edited June 2020

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”


  • dignindignin Posts: 9,303

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”


    That is fantastic, hopefully more will follow.
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Yes if you truly don’t want trump to be the president.  
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Exactly.  I don't buy this logic at all.  Static doesn't get to make my choice for me, as an example.  
    So being that you are one of the more fervent anti trumpets on the board you would rather cast a mail in ballot that could be contested , than go out and take not much more risk than a grocery shop and cast an actual ballot in person?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,426
    edited June 2020
      https://www.axios.com/james-mattis-trump-protests-f325f239-17f1-4795-b6a4-0ab1587ad210.html?utm_campaign=organic&utm_medium=socialshare&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1EQ0FOio5dG8g_MaLpAyFrtmec6Fqwr9g8_snRnNBFn24mlxg0JpFguEk

     

    James Mattis condemns Trump as a threat to the Constitution

    James Mattis

    Mattis on Fox in Septemnber 2019 in New York City. Photo: Steven Ferdman/Getty Images

    Former Secretary of Defense James Mattis condemned President Trump for making a "mockery of our Constitution" in a statement to The Atlantic on Wednesday, saying he was "appalled" at the president's response to mass protests in the wake of George Floyd's killing.

    Why it matters: Trump’s former defense secretary had refrained from publicly criticizing his former boss since resigning in 2018.

    Full statement:

    "I have watched this week’s unfolding events, angry and appalled. The words “Equal Justice Under Law” are carved in the pediment of the United States Supreme Court. This is precisely what protesters are rightly demanding. It is a wholesome and unifying demand—one that all of us should be able to get behind. We must not be distracted by a small number of lawbreakers. The protests are defined by tens of thousands of people of conscience who are insisting that we live up to our values—our values as people and our values as a nation.
    When I joined the military, some 50 years ago, I swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution. Never did I dream that troops taking that same oath would be ordered under any circumstance to violate the Constitutional rights of their fellow citizens—much less to provide a bizarre photo op for the elected commander-in-chief, with military leadership standing alongside.
    We must reject any thinking of our cities as a “battlespace” that our uniformed military is called upon to “dominate.” At home, we should use our military only when requested to do so, on very rare occasions, by state governors. Militarizing our response, as we witnessed in Washington, D.C., sets up a conflict—a false conflict—between the military and civilian society. It erodes the moral ground that ensures a trusted bond between men and women in uniform and the society they are sworn to protect, and of which they themselves are a part. Keeping public order rests with civilian state and local leaders who best understand their communities and are answerable to them.
    James Madison wrote in Federalist 14 that “America united with a handful of troops, or without a single soldier, exhibits a more forbidding posture to foreign ambition than America disunited, with a hundred thousand veterans ready for combat.” We do not need to militarize our response to protests. We need to unite around a common purpose. And it starts by guaranteeing that all of us are equal before the law.
    Instructions given by the military departments to our troops before the Normandy invasion reminded soldiers that “The Nazi slogan for destroying us…was ‘Divide and Conquer.’ Our American answer is ‘In Union there is Strength.’” We must summon that unity to surmount this crisis—confident that we are better than our politics.
    Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead he tries to divide us. We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.
    We can come through this trying time stronger, and with a renewed sense of purpose and respect for one another. The pandemic has shown us that it is not only our troops who are willing to offer the ultimate sacrifice for the safety of the community. Americans in hospitals, grocery stores, post offices, and elsewhere have put their lives on the line in order to serve their fellow citizens and their country. We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Square. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution. At the same time, we must remember Lincoln’s “better angels,” and listen to them, as we work to unite.
    Only by adopting a new path—which means, in truth, returning to the original path of our founding ideals—will we again be a country admired and respected at home and abroad."

    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    edited June 2020
    ikiT said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    Mail in your votes. I just did it in MD. It's hella easy.  MAIL
    The guy is literally starting his smear campaign against mail in ballots all but saying that in a close contest he wouldn’t accept mailed ballots.  I get that it’s easy.  As someone that sometimes works overseas it’s the only way to vote.  We have a maniac that may not accept the outcome of a close election with a Republican senate and Republican house members that will back him up.
    Post edited by static111 on
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/6/3/21257133/trump-2020-election-meltdown-lawrence-douglas?fbclid=IwAR0BDVPuYStzfK-xyh2IblKC_h8iTrKdhHu99FTZl3gX8dXE8pZQN1iDxms  The article from the other thread that explains my reasoning for risking your life like you do for groceries so you can cast a ballot
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Exactly.  I don't buy this logic at all.  Static doesn't get to make my choice for me, as an example.  
    So being that you are one of the more fervent anti trumpets on the board you would rather cast a mail in ballot that could be contested , than go out and take not much more risk than a grocery shop and cast an actual ballot in person?
    I worry about my elderly mother who is in a nursing home in Cleveland.  She hasn't had a meal with a person in three months and they get to go outside their room a few times per week.  Going out and voting could be a death sentence for her.  Likewise, if my sister (who is her local caretaker) gets infected, she could pass it to my mother.  It's not about my fervency.  
  • static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Exactly.  I don't buy this logic at all.  Static doesn't get to make my choice for me, as an example.  
    So being that you are one of the more fervent anti trumpets on the board you would rather cast a mail in ballot that could be contested , than go out and take not much more risk than a grocery shop and cast an actual ballot in person?
    I worry about my elderly mother who is in a nursing home in Cleveland.  She hasn't had a meal with a person in three months and they get to go outside their room a few times per week.  Going out and voting could be a death sentence for her.  Likewise, if my sister (who is her local caretaker) gets infected, she could pass it to my mother.  It's not about my fervency.  
    That sucks man.  I really feel for u being in that situation.  The original point is if you are able bodied get to the actual poll and cast a ballot that is less likely to be rejected. Quarantine for 14 days if you have to.  I don’t know what to do.  But I agree that the election has to be a wide Indisputable  margin of victory. 

    I listened to Rush Limbaugh today for a bit.  The fact that the other side doubles down so much on the love of their king has  me very worried
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Exactly.  I don't buy this logic at all.  Static doesn't get to make my choice for me, as an example.  
    So being that you are one of the more fervent anti trumpets on the board you would rather cast a mail in ballot that could be contested , than go out and take not much more risk than a grocery shop and cast an actual ballot in person?
    I worry about my elderly mother who is in a nursing home in Cleveland.  She hasn't had a meal with a person in three months and they get to go outside their room a few times per week.  Going out and voting could be a death sentence for her.  Likewise, if my sister (who is her local caretaker) gets infected, she could pass it to my mother.  It's not about my fervency.  
    That sucks man.  I really feel for u being in that situation.  The original point is if you are able bodied get to the actual poll and cast a ballot that is less likely to be rejected. Quarantine for 14 days if you have to.  I don’t know what to do.  But I agree that the election has to be a wide Indisputable  margin of victory. 

    I listened to Rush Limbaugh today for a bit.  The fact that the other side doubles down so much on the love of their king has  me very worried
    I'll probably vote in person since I won't see my mom in November, but I guess I'm arguing that I don't think the protests mean we can't go vote.  I would agree that THOSE people probably can.  I'm still a big advocate for the mail in voting though.  
    And thanks for the regards, but don't worry about me.  I have it better than 99% of the people on this Earth.  
  • darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 5,692
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Exactly.  I don't buy this logic at all.  Static doesn't get to make my choice for me, as an example.  
    So being that you are one of the more fervent anti trumpets on the board you would rather cast a mail in ballot that could be contested , than go out and take not much more risk than a grocery shop and cast an actual ballot in person?
    I worry about my elderly mother who is in a nursing home in Cleveland.  She hasn't had a meal with a person in three months and they get to go outside their room a few times per week.  Going out and voting could be a death sentence for her.  Likewise, if my sister (who is her local caretaker) gets infected, she could pass it to my mother.  It's not about my fervency.  
    I can definitely relate, my brother. My girlfriend and I are primary caretakers (well, grocery getters, etc...) for a few elderly folks. I intend on (if necessary) taking a sick day on election day. I plan on having masks and a supply of sanitizer in my vehicle and ensuring a handful of individuals are able to safely exercise their right to vote come November. Hell or high water, it is a small part I can do to help.
    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,596

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”



    This is excellent- very encouraging.  Well done, General Mattis!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • cblock4lifecblock4life Posts: 1,390
    brianlux said:

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”



    This is excellent- very encouraging.  Well done, General Mattis!
    It is but where has he been?  So many fear the goof that they hesitate to speak after they quit or more likely are let go. It’s never too late I just wish more of trumps former supporters see speaking the truth as a moral obligation. 
  • Edved82Edved82 Ireland Posts: 1,249

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”


    I think that could really end up hurting him badly. Mattis seems very popular with the military. Hopefully the likes of McMaster etc now come out and denounce him as well. The more the better.
    "...though my problems are meaningless....that don't make them go away...."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    static111 said:
    I posted this in the Biden v trump thread , and I think it bears repeating here.

    If people can go out to protest they can stand in line to vote.   I’m saying this as someone that has been out at the peaceful  protests off and on in the last days.   When people start throwing shit and outside agitators start trying to get people to antagonize the cops Or set shit on fire  that’s when I bow out.  If we are feeling this strongly to risk our health and gather in large groups in support of Black Lives we can absolutely show up to the polls especially in states with early voting.  If they try to vilify and cast doubt on absentee ballots people have to be willing to take the risk to go to a polling place and cast a vote that will be less easy to challenge.  Some things are important enough to go out even with the threat of corona.  If you can go to get groceries, pickup take out food, you can go to the damn poll and help those that can’t get there.
    But not everyone is going out to protest so.....those that are at home have to suck it up and go to the voting booths Covid be damned?

    Exactly.  I don't buy this logic at all.  Static doesn't get to make my choice for me, as an example.  
    So being that you are one of the more fervent anti trumpets on the board you would rather cast a mail in ballot that could be contested , than go out and take not much more risk than a grocery shop and cast an actual ballot in person?
    I worry about my elderly mother who is in a nursing home in Cleveland.  She hasn't had a meal with a person in three months and they get to go outside their room a few times per week.  Going out and voting could be a death sentence for her.  Likewise, if my sister (who is her local caretaker) gets infected, she could pass it to my mother.  It's not about my fervency.  
    I can definitely relate, my brother. My girlfriend and I are primary caretakers (well, grocery getters, etc...) for a few elderly folks. I intend on (if necessary) taking a sick day on election day. I plan on having masks and a supply of sanitizer in my vehicle and ensuring a handful of individuals are able to safely exercise their right to vote come November. Hell or high water, it is a small part I can do to help.
    That's good man.  Good for you.  I hope it doesn't come to that.  I hope your vulnerable citizens can vote by mail.  
  • PJNBPJNB Posts: 12,625



    I usually just role my eyes at celebrities having input on this stuff but Dwayne gets it actor or not. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”


    I'm glad he finally said something but his country deserved this when he resigned.  He did a great disservice by staying silent so long.  We needed him to tell us what the fuck was going on behind the doors.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    And tRump is 6'3" 240lbs?  No way motherfucker
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • mickeyratmickeyrat up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,426

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”


    I'm glad he finally said something but his country deserved this when he resigned.  He did a great disservice by staying silent so long.  We needed him to tell us what the fuck was going on behind the doors.
    perhaps his silence affirmed whats been reported all along......

    however when fuckstick suggests so egregiously counter to everything his service and sworn oaths at every reenlistment and new position, warranted this statement. Hes a military man, apolitical. They generally are deferential to the political class.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,937
    Here is the 6'3 tRump standing next to 6'1 Obama





    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 5,692

    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • lastexitlondonlastexitlondon Posts: 11,710

    I actually  laughed out loud scrolling down. Well done here.
    brixton 93
    astoria 06
    albany 06
    hartford 06
    reading 06
    barcelona 06
    paris 06
    wembley 07
    dusseldorf 07
    nijmegen 07

    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,007
    His TIE is 6 3
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,007
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,007
    sorry not sorry
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,769
    edited June 2020
    An analyst on a morning news show who previously worked in our government tracking and observing fascist-type countries around the world, was asked what we should watch out for next. She explained that fascists work to steal elections. It's part of what they do. 
    We must be vigilant and make sure it doesn't happen here. So many things we never thought could happen here have happened. :( 
    Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • ikiTikiT USA Posts: 11,007
    mickeyrat said:

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”


    I'm glad he finally said something but his country deserved this when he resigned.  He did a great disservice by staying silent so long.  We needed him to tell us what the fuck was going on behind the doors.
    perhaps his silence affirmed whats been reported all along......

    however when fuckstick suggests so egregiously counter to everything his service and sworn oaths at every reenlistment and new position, warranted this statement. Hes a military man, apolitical. They generally are deferential to the political class.
    Steamroller Trump.  All the rolling hills, I'll flatten 'em out, yeah

    Holmes don't GAF.
    Bristow 05132010 to Amsterdam 2 06132018
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,596
    brianlux said:

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”



    This is excellent- very encouraging.  Well done, General Mattis!
    It is but where has he been?  So many fear the goof that they hesitate to speak after they quit or more likely are let go. It’s never too late I just wish more of trumps former supporters see speaking the truth as a moral obligation. 

    Military brass are traditionally expected to remain non-political.  If you understand how deeply that runs, you will understand how unusual Mattis's indictment of Trump's egregious behavior is.  I say, "right on, General Mattis".
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:

    James Mattis former Secretary of Defense

    This is encouraging to me that more people are coming out and denouncing Trump.
    This part really says it all:
    “Donald Trump is the first president in my lifetime who does not try to unite the American people—does not even pretend to try. Instead, he tries to divide us,” Mattis writes. “We are witnessing the consequences of three years of this deliberate effort. We are witnessing the consequences of three years without mature leadership. We can unite without him, drawing on the strengths inherent in our civil society. This will not be easy, as the past few days have shown, but we owe it to our fellow citizens; to past generations that bled to defend our promise; and to our children.”



    This is excellent- very encouraging.  Well done, General Mattis!
    It is but where has he been?  So many fear the goof that they hesitate to speak after they quit or more likely are let go. It’s never too late I just wish more of trumps former supporters see speaking the truth as a moral obligation. 

    Military brass are traditionally expected to remain non-political.  If you understand how deeply that runs, you will understand how unusual Mattis's indictment of Trump's egregious behavior is.  I say, "right on, General Mattis".
    I agree.  This is big. 
This discussion has been closed.