Your country needs rural states that produce food. Those states need a voice. The popular vote doesn't work so well for such states. If they are to hold value, then their voice and needs must be accounted for.
Trump should have lost by 30 million votes. Losing the popular vote by 3 million is a victory... and very revealing of a daft general public.
Thank you for stating this much more eloquently and succinctly than I did
The EC is not the origin of American stupidity - Americans are.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Trump won the election due to about 80,000 votes in three states (MI, WI and PA). The tRump campaign was able to focus on those three states to eek out an EC win.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
benjs, I have the greatest respect for math whizzes and you made my eyes glaze over because I'm not one. I don't understand it and if that's the system, I have to agree with Gern that it has a big problem in today's world. Any thoughts on why it wouldn't be ok to just have an election by popular vote? That wouldn't favor one party over another, would it?
The challenge has always been to ensure smaller States don't lose all of their power, even if their population is low compared to others.
Wyoming, for example, has a population under 600,000. California, on the other hand, has over 38,000,000. The total US population is around 320,000,000, which means with a popular vote held today, California would have right to up to 12% of all voting power, while Wyoming would have a right to up to just under 0.2%. As America is urbanized, predominantly rural environments like Wyoming are destined to become an even smaller percentage of American population over time, so the question becomes: how do you break a promise made via the Constitution to Wyoming, that they will perpetually have a voice at the table, and a say in the direction of the country? I honestly don't think it's possible with a purely popular vote, and would love to be proven wrong.
but what's really the downside of having .2% of the popular vote tally as opposed to only 3 electoral college votes out of 538? actually, it's worse. it's .0056% of the total EC.
I just went to Breitbart to get their spin. His base loves him even more after this.
His base, his supporters, people who voted for him should be embarrassed. He is a spoiled petulant narcissistic child who is doing one thing and one thing only.....embarrassing America.
SAD!
Yup. It's pretty confounding. One of America's problems is that its population is so divided in its viewpoint/perspective/mindset/IQ/morals ... Seriously, I don't see how it will be possible to close that divide at all, or even to stop it from growing bigger, if Trump's base is okay with shit like this. To me, that seems like an unbreachable gap that can't and in fact should NOT be closed if it means the non-Trump supporters are expected to be more tolerant of that kind of bullshit. Trump and Trump's base really doesn't leave any room for reasonable compromise at all. Their position is just too far out there for others to be expected to soften towards them or even to bother with an attempt at trying to see anything eye-to-eye. It's extremely frustrating just to be watching that from the outside. As I've said before, I can't even imagine how frustrating and hopeless it must feel to actually be an American and consider this impossible situation.
and then our leader is out marching in Pride parades.
benjs, I have the greatest respect for math whizzes and you made my eyes glaze over because I'm not one. I don't understand it and if that's the system, I have to agree with Gern that it has a big problem in today's world. Any thoughts on why it wouldn't be ok to just have an election by popular vote? That wouldn't favor one party over another, would it?
The challenge has always been to ensure smaller States don't lose all of their power, even if their population is low compared to others.
Wyoming, for example, has a population under 600,000. California, on the other hand, has over 38,000,000. The total US population is around 320,000,000, which means with a popular vote held today, California would have right to up to 12% of all voting power, while Wyoming would have a right to up to just under 0.2%. As America is urbanized, predominantly rural environments like Wyoming are destined to become an even smaller percentage of American population over time, so the question becomes: how do you break a promise made via the Constitution to Wyoming, that they will perpetually have a voice at the table, and a say in the direction of the country? I honestly don't think it's possible with a purely popular vote, and would love to be proven wrong.
but what's really the downside of having .2% of the popular vote tally as opposed to only 3 electoral college votes out of 538? actually, it's worse. it's .0056% of the total EC.
Your forgot to move the decimal points over It's currently 0.56%, and comes with math that absolutely guarantees that it wouldn't actually go any lower. To put this otherwise, with the EC, Wyoming receives 3/538ths of voting power. Without the EC, Wyoming receives 1/538th of voting power. That's quite substantial. And, again, the trend is moving where Wyoming will receive a fraction of this in time.
Post edited by benjs on
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Your country needs rural states that produce food. Those states need a voice. The popular vote doesn't work so well for such states. If they are to hold value, then their voice and needs must be accounted for.
Trump should have lost by 30 million votes. Losing the popular vote by 3 million is a victory... and very revealing of a daft general public.
Exactly, if it was specifically determined by popular votes, then many of the diverse demographics that fall within individual states (especially the smaller ones) would have little to no representation. Politicians would only pander to the demographics in the heavy populated states and hang most of the rural/agricultural communities out to dry. The issue that effect California or New York are very different than the ones that are important to heavily agricultural based communities.
it's that damned metric system of counting votes I think
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
When you do that, to convert it to a percentage you must move the decimal point two places to the right. For example, 5/10 = 0.5 = 50%.
I shouldn't have quit coffee. Jesus.
Funny you say that! I switched to tea a few months ago, and feel fantastic. Green and black tea contain a chemical called L-Theanine, which slows the release and consumption of caffeine in your system, waking you up and providing energy without the jolt and crash of coffee.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
There is no real reason that a primary voter in New Hampshire or South Carolina should have more lasting electoral power than the entire city of San Francisco.
One thing I can count on is power enjoying R's to stand up against the idea of one person one vote. They're too entrenched.
Another way the US is behind the rest of the world. Imperial measurements.
yeah, but full disclosure: no one in canada (except the medical profession) measures their weight in kilograms or their height in meters.
I'm still 6 feet tall and noneofyourdamnbusiness pounds.
True, and to be honest, I can't even remember how many kg I weight or how tall I am in cm. But the only reason we're still thinking about body measurements and sometimes distance/length in imperial terms is because of how ubiquitous the US's media is here. What's weird is that we mix it up so much. Canadians never ever think of volume in imperial terms, and we all very loyally stick with Celsius. I am not sure how or why we all seem to have naturally and uniformly adopted a weird mishmash of the two systems.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
There is no real reason that a primary voter in New Hampshire or South Carolina should have more lasting electoral power than the entire city of San Francisco.
One thing I can count on is power enjoying R's to stand up against the idea of one person one vote. They're too entrenched.
So it makes sense for the city of San Francisco to have more voting weight than some states in their entirety? Issues specific to San Francisco are very different from rural Wyoming and should not guide political pandering...there are local and state elections for that.
Another way the US is behind the rest of the world. Imperial measurements.
yeah, but full disclosure: no one in canada (except the medical profession) measures their weight in kilograms or their height in meters.
I'm still 6 feet tall and noneofyourdamnbusiness pounds.
True, and to be honest, I can't even remember how many kg I weight or how tall I am in cm. But the only reason we're still thinking about body measurements and sometimes distance/length in imperial terms is because of how ubiquitous the US's media is here. What's weird is that we mix it up so much. Canadians never ever think of volume in imperial terms, and we all very loyally stick with Celsius. I am not sure how or why we all seem to have naturally and uniformly adopted a weird mishmash of the two systems.
my dad still makes fun of me when he tells me the temperature in Fahrenheit and I have to ask him what the real temperature is. (I realize Fahrenheit is not imperial, but it is only used primarily in the US and everyone else switched to metric).
10 millimetres = 1 centimetre 100 centimetres = 1 metre 1000 metres = 1 kilometre
Oh, that crazy, complicated metric system!
it's way better than that
it takes 1 calorie to heat 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius 1 gram of water is also 1 cubic centimeter is also one milliliter
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
benjs, I have the greatest respect for math whizzes and you made my eyes glaze over because I'm not one. I don't understand it and if that's the system, I have to agree with Gern that it has a big problem in today's world. Any thoughts on why it wouldn't be ok to just have an election by popular vote? That wouldn't favor one party over another, would it?
The challenge has always been to ensure smaller States don't lose all of their power, even if their population is low compared to others.
Wyoming, for example, has a population under 600,000. California, on the other hand, has over 38,000,000. The total US population is around 320,000,000, which means with a popular vote held today, California would have right to up to 12% of all voting power, while Wyoming would have a right to up to just under 0.2%. As America is urbanized, predominantly rural environments like Wyoming are destined to become an even smaller percentage of American population over time, so the question becomes: how do you break a promise made via the Constitution to Wyoming, that they will perpetually have a voice at the table, and a say in the direction of the country? I honestly don't think it's possible with a purely popular vote, and would love to be proven wrong.
Both states operate under a winner-take-all basis in the EC. California has 10.23% of electoral votes (55/538) and Wyoming has 0.56% (3/538). Apples. Oranges.
I'm not sure what point you're making.
Today is Electoral College, Winner Takes All per State. My proposal is to proportionally allocate Electoral College Votes to directly mirror how the population votes within the State, so that a maximum of 49.9% of voters who could today be ignored because of Winner Takes All, tomorrow could have a voice. The Popular Vote, with such a disparity between the highest and lowest populations in the States, is certain to leave LA and NY with high representation in politics, and entire States like Wyoming with next to nil (when they're already only minimally represented). And once again, with the urbanization of America, rural States would be destined to further decrease their representation in politics if there's a direct proportionality to population alone. Not to mention that, as stated above, this is Constitutionally mandated. You thought the fight for abandoning gerrymandering was bad - wait until a vote to pivot to the Popular Vote is brought forward.
This is not apples and oranges, this is a comparison of valid competing ways to run a Presidential election.
Agree. I think the problem is not with the electoral college but the all or none allocation. as i stated before it can deem an area of a certain state unimportant when voting. it's need to be broken down more within each state as you stated.
Yeah as much as I hate what the EC did to us this time I've always been fascinated with how it works and why it's in place. I hope that it stays in place.
Comments
The EC is not the origin of American stupidity - Americans are.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
www.headstonesband.com
different universes.
www.headstonesband.com
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
www.headstonesband.com
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
www.headstonesband.com
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
if i were cameron i'd strongly consider wedging my drum kit up someone's fat fucking ass for awhile
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
3 feet = 1 yard
1760 yards = 1 mile
VS
10 millimetres = 1 centimetre
100 centimetres = 1 metre
1000 metres = 1 kilometre
Oh, that crazy, complicated metric system!
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
I'm still 6 feet tall and noneofyourdamnbusiness pounds.
www.headstonesband.com
One thing I can count on is power enjoying R's to stand up against the idea of one person one vote. They're too entrenched.
www.headstonesband.com
it takes 1 calorie to heat 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius
1 gram of water is also 1 cubic centimeter is also one milliliter
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Can we get a progress report on your campaign to end cyber bullying?
An anxious nation waits.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14