who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
these are what I'm talking about.
yeah, dems really should behave themselves and follow the rule of law. what you just stated there is indeed inferring they'd get a pass if they didn't.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.
that's really not what my point is.
I was saying "you guys" because mrussel1 was a part of the conversation and you two seemed kind of teaming up with this one, haha - I was more referring to a point he made.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.
that's really not what my point is.
I was saying "you guys" because mrussel1 was a part of the conversation and you two seemed kind of teaming up with this one, haha - I was more referring to a point he made.
BTW, you're right, the left does a much better job of holding its own accountable. And I don't think we should stop. I think the "penalty" should be more in line with the "crime" as it seems like social media world is intent on literally destroying lives half the time. And that was sort of the point from the beginning, before we went off in a few different directions. We should not want to destroy lives for things someone says (not does). And it feels like that's where we are in our culture. I'm saying we should dial it back and not by hypocritical based on party affiliation. Seems non-controversial to me.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.
that's really not what my point is.
I was saying "you guys" because mrussel1 was a part of the conversation and you two seemed kind of teaming up with this one, haha - I was more referring to a point he made.
well you literally quoted me and said "he's making a good argument against your assertion". but ok.
You all seem to just be explaining why there are wars. In a fantasy utopia everyone would get along, be able to settle profound differences to eliminate corruption and greed and evil and ignorance, etc etc etc, and there wouldn't be such massive divisions. Unfortunately, we live in reality. If any of you guys actually have that much faith in humanity .... I've got a bridge to sell.
Wars are about religion and wealth, not disagreements like this. It's why the much maligned "globalists' are responsible for the 70 years of inter-continental peace, probably the longest in 500 years. It's because we created shared prosperity. Losing that is the most dangerous part of this neo-nationalism, in my mind. But that's a different argument, and also why I gladly call myself a globalist.
From the New Yorker article regarding Faux News' White House:
The biggest test yet of Fox’s journalistic standards is the impending showdown over Mueller’s findings. For two years, the network has been priming its viewers to respond with extraordinary anger should the country’s law-enforcement authorities close in on the President. According to Media Matters, in the first year after Mueller was appointed Hannity alone aired four hundred and eighty-six segments attacking the federal criminal investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election; thirty-eight per cent of those segments claimed that law-enforcement officials had broken the law. In recent weeks, Hannity has spoken of “a coup,” and a guest on Laura Ingraham’s program, the lawyer Joseph diGenova, declared, “It’s going to be total war. And, as I say to my friends, I do two things—I vote and I buy guns.”
Link me to the dem/liberal equivalent.
Such breaks with the Trump narrative on Fox are rare, though. Unlike Glenn Beck, Hannity has been allowed to spew baseless conspiracy theories with impunity. For more than a year, Hannity and other hosts spread the lie that the hacking of Democratic Party e-mails during the 2016 campaign was an inside job. Hannity claimed that the hacking had been committed not by Russian cyber-warfare agents, as the U.S. intelligence community concluded, but by a Democratic staffer named Seth Rich, who had been murdered by unknown assailants on a D.C. street. Benkler and his co-authors studied Fox’s coverage, and found that not only did the channel give the Seth Rich lie a national platform; it also used the conspiracy story as a distraction, deploying it as a competing narrative when developments in Mueller’s investigation showed Trump in a bad light. In 2017, after Rich’s parents demanded an apology and advertisers began shunning the network, Fox finally ran a retraction, and Hannity dropped the story.
By then, Fox hosts had begun pushing a different conspiracy: the “Uranium One” story, which Hannity called “the biggest scandal ever involving Russia.” On an October, 2017, broadcast, Hannity claimed that Hillary Clinton, when she was Secretary of State, had given “to Vladimir Putin and Russia twenty per cent of America’s uranium, which is the foundational material to make nuclear weapons.” Ostensibly, the deal was in exchange for giant payments to the Clinton Foundation. Hannity also claimed that “the corrupt, lying mainstream media” was withholding this “bombshell” from Americans, because it was “complicit” in a “huge coverup.” More than a year earlier, the Times had run a front-page story about the deal, based on the right-wing book “Clinton Cash.” But the story had gone cold, because other reporting had poked holes in it, revealing that multiple government agencies had approved the deal, and that the quantity of uranium was insignificant. Yet Fox kept flogging it as the real national-security scandal involving Russia. On “Hannity,” the former Trump White House adviser Sebastian Gorka argued that the Clintons’ crime was equivalent to the Cold War treason of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg—and reminded viewers that the Rosenbergs were executed. Within two days, Trump picked up Fox’s story, tweeting, “Uranium deal to Russia, with Clinton help and Obama Administration knowledge, is the biggest story that Fake Media doesn’t want to follow!”
Link me to the dem/lib equivalent.
As Murdoch’s relations with the White House have warmed, so has Fox’s coverage of Trump. During the Obama years, Fox’s attacks on the President could be seen as reflecting the adversarial role traditionally played by the press. With Trump’s election, the network’s hosts went from questioning power to defending it. Yochai Benkler, a Harvard Law School professor who co-directs the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society, says, “Fox’s most important role since the election has been to keep Trump supporters in line.” The network has provided a non-stop counternarrative in which the only collusion is between Hillary Clinton and Russia; Robert Mueller, the special counsel, is perpetrating a “coup” by the “deep state”; Trump and his associates aren’t corrupt, but America’s law-enforcement officials and courts are; illegal immigration isn’t at a fifteen-year low, it’s “an invasion”; and news organizations that offer different perspectives are “enemies of the American people.”
Benkler’s assessment is based on an analysis of millions of American news stories that he and two co-authors, Robert Faris and Hal Roberts, undertook for their 2018 book, “Network Propaganda: Manipulation, Disinformation and Radicalization in American Politics.” Benkler told me that he and his co-authors had expected to find “symmetric polarization” in the left-leaning and the right-leaning media outlets. Instead, they discovered that the two poles of America’s media ecosystem function very differently. “It’s not the right versus the left,” Benkler says. “It’s the right versus the rest.”
French, Kasich, Christie, et. al. would all be much better served cleaning up their mess first, the quotes and Faux News being just one mess among the many in their house. That's my point. Stop clinging to power at the expense of democracy, beat us with ideas and policy and not gerrymandered voting districts and legal and illegal vote suppression, regain some civility in your discourse and stop shoving it up our ass (I'm looking at you Mitchy Baby) and maybe, just maybe after we've learned to trust you (you in the generakl sense), we'll respond in kind.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
these are what I'm talking about.
yeah, dems really should behave themselves and follow the rule of law. what you just stated there is indeed inferring they'd get a pass if they didn't.
Have you forgotten all the dems that have been held accountable via impeachment, indictments, convictions and being persona non-gratis in the past 30 years? I never said the "dems would get a pass if they didn't." The repubs are looking the other way and shrugging their shoulders as we type out this debate.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I actually think he's making a good argument against your assertion TBH. I think he's right. The Dems tend to actually hold most of those wrongdoers accountable, and the Reps don't.
that's really not what my point is.
I was saying "you guys" because mrussel1 was a part of the conversation and you two seemed kind of teaming up with this one, haha - I was more referring to a point he made.
well you literally quoted me and said "he's making a good argument against your assertion". but ok.
Well, I actually meant mrussel1's assertion when it came to that one point, since Halifax's counterargument did respond to his comment directly, and wasn't really paying attention to who said what I guess, since I felt that you and russel were kind of making the same argument in general.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
No, I don't see how that works. It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid. And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack. Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope. Use your moral compass, not your political one.
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
I don't know if she's a terrible person. If she is anti-Semitic, then she is. An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not. Steve King is a terrible person, right? If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
No, I don't see how that works. It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid. And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack. Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope. Use your moral compass, not your political one.
Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
No, I don't see how that works. It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid. And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack. Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope. Use your moral compass, not your political one.
Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.
Yes I agree. And I literally addressed that two posts ago.. I'll quote myself.. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
I don't know if she's a terrible person. If she is anti-Semitic, then she is. An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not. Steve King is a terrible person, right? If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?
I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually. If she ever actually does anything to suggest she is, then I'll accept that, but I think it's terrible and unfair that people are even watching her to see if she is at this point.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
No, I don't see how that works. It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid. And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack. Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope. Use your moral compass, not your political one.
Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.
Yes I agree. And I literally addressed that two posts ago.. I'll quote myself.. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
But that’s a false equivalence. Israel and Saudi Arabia both lobby the US and both seem to have an undue influence on US policy, but only one of the two is subsidized to the tune of $3BB+ per year and only one of the two depends on that subsidy for economic survival.
If you can link to a transcript of her actual comments, I’d appreciate it as all I’ve found was the “Benjamin’s” comment and a description of her rolling her eyes. Full context would be appreciated and I’m not trying to defend her comments but trying to understand what set off the “outrage.” Because mentioning BDS will generate outrage in reference to Israel.
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
I don't know if she's a terrible person. If she is anti-Semitic, then she is. An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not. Steve King is a terrible person, right? If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?
I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually.
ok, except for the trope. Which led to a resolution condemning hate in the House because her own colleagues were outraged. Other than that.. yeah disgusting.
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
No, I don't see how that works. It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid. And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack. Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope. Use your moral compass, not your political one.
Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.
Yes I agree. And I literally addressed that two posts ago.. I'll quote myself.. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
So why do we need to tiptoe around Israel so much that we can make such a statement about Saudi Arabia but we can’t make the same statement about Israel, even if it is true?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
who is talking about a fantasy utopia where everyone gets along? the only point being made is that you simply can't explain away bad behavior because "the other guys do worse things".
if my kid 1 comes home with a report card with a D on it, and I sit down to have a chat with her, and she says "talk to me when kid 2 stops getting F's", H2M is essentially saying I should accept that explanation and give kid 2 shit again.
we can expect better from "our team" regardless how the "other team" conducts themselves.
I'm talking about a fantasy utopia... I'm simply saying that
these suggestions about bridging the divide, and the accusations of
someone "picking sides" against the right being part of the problem, are
IMO ignoring what's impossible in the current reality. I get where Halifax
is coming from when he says he's "happy to be a part of the problem". I
think he is choosing the only realistic option that will make anything happen. The other option is what you guys are doing, which I totally get as well, and know is very well intentioned, but I think will ultimately just end up being equivalent to chasing tails. The vague suggestions of
what he should be doing otherwise seem really unrealistic and useless to
me. The only realistic part, maybe, is that one side might actually
manage to meaningfully decrease the negatives within itself. But the two
sides are never going to come closer together at this point until one
side is basically beaten into submission by the other and future
generations don't learn it from their parents and the media.
I'm not ignoring anything. I'm saying hold ourselves, ALL of ourselves, accountable for our actions. he's saying his team gets a pass on everything because the other team is worse.
I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
I never said our side gets a pass. It’s a false equivalence and our side holds ours more accountable. When the other side does the same, catches up to us, then we can discuss eliminating the toxicity in the body politic. And they can start by holding Team Trump Treason accountable to common decency. Maybe start there?
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
The only way you can try to hold Republicans accountable for their deplorable acts is by acting aggressively to take care of your own house. Look at this week, Trump got to go on TV and say "Democrats are the party of anti-Semitism". Why? Because of Omar's tweets and all of the debate in the House after the fact. It gave him an opening and he exploited it because the caucus was split. First, she should keep her twitter fingers locked up, but when she says something like that, the Democrats must act swiftly or lose the moral high ground. Keeping our house clean is the most important thing right now. And I still have no issue with French because he has criticized PEOPLE, not parties. That's the key.
Speaker Pelosi brought a resolution to the floor and the dems voted for it. Lynn Cheney voted against it. Where's Team Trump Treason calling her out for being a party to hatred and bigotry? And, had Representative Omar made that tweet in reference to any other country, say Kenya or Saudi Arabia, would there have been the outrage?
"Cheney — a member of leadership, who currently serves as the House Republican Conference chair — said that while she stands “wholeheartedly against discrimination outlined in this resolution,” she felt it failed to address the “issue that is front and center.”
“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
Except, equating Israel and Saudi Arabia, as it relates to “its all about the Benjamin’s” is a false equivalence. And there’s no islamaphobia from the current administration, right? I know, tit for tat or two wrongs don’t make a right. And maybe, just maybe, if repubs spoke out a little more forcefully and didn’t back the Muslim ban, I’d take their criticism of Omar a little more seriously. See how that works?
No, I don't see how that works. It doesn't work. Because her statement was wrong and stupid. And it put Democrats in a position to rebuke her and allowed Trump to go on the attack. Remember, there are several Jewish Democrats that were really pissed about it, not just because it opened up Trump but because they saw it as a trope. Use your moral compass, not your political one.
Criticism of Israel or US policy toward Israel does not necessarily mean you’re ( in the general sense) an anti-Semite or anti-Semitic.
Yes I agree. And I literally addressed that two posts ago.. I'll quote myself.. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
So why do we need to tiptoe around Israel so much that we can make such a statement about Saudi Arabia but we can’t make the same statement about Israel, even if it is true?
"All about the Benjamins"... Jews..money.. historic tropes, from the fingers of a Muslim. Use your head before you tweet. Her own colleagues in the House, particularly the Democratic Jews were outraged.
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
I don't know if she's a terrible person. If she is anti-Semitic, then she is. An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not. Steve King is a terrible person, right? If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?
I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually.
ok, except for the trope. Which led to a resolution condemning hate in the House because her own colleagues were outraged. Other than that.. yeah disgusting.
Yeah, I thought that it led to that resolution was gross too. Her colleagues did the wrong thing IMO.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
I don't know if she's a terrible person. If she is anti-Semitic, then she is. An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not. Steve King is a terrible person, right? If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?
I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually.
ok, except for the trope. Which led to a resolution condemning hate in the House because her own colleagues were outraged. Other than that.. yeah disgusting.
Yeah, I thought that it led to that resolution was gross too. Her colleagues did the wrong thing IMO.
Well that's just the thing I was talking about... we cover for our team. We don't see the inherent issue when it's us, but we see it when it's that team over there. "She's a good person because she agrees with me politically" is the mindset. But if someone is a conservative, then we see the nefarious undertones.
You are completely missing the point, or just don't want to acknowledge it. No one is saying the Dems are as 'bad' as Republicans in this sense. But there are humans on both sides of the aisle that are terrible, terrible people. If you want me to name some on the liberal side, it would be pretty easy. Plus, liberal groups have picked up on the right wing strategy of publishing lies on memes and on facebook. Just last week there was the fake Trump report card. It got outed pretty quickly, but it's the same bullshit that right wingers post. We all laugh about it, but I guarantee there are lots of people who believe it to be true.
Yes, please name the terrible, terrible people on the “liberal side.” And how do you know that the false report card was posted by “liberal groups?” I suggest you read the intelligence report regarding troll farms and sowing seeds of discord. The difference I see is that we hold our side more accountable and when I say our side, I’m referring to the dem Establishment. We shout ours down and are more critical of our leadership, less likely to walk in lockstep, to issue retractions and god forbid, apologize. And when we do, we’re painted as weak, feminine, etc., etc. Maybe you don’t see that?
Harvey Weinstein, Justin Smollett, Kevin Spacey, Gov. Northam, Lt Gov, Justin Fairfax, Ilhan Omar, Bob Menendez, Keith Ellison...
Now you're going to name a bunch of right wingers, but that's not the point. Of course you can. And yes, I know the troll farms hit both sides, but our side is taken by them too. People forward that bullshit on to me, and it's as easy to pick apart as the right wing bs. It's teh same damn thing.
In what world is Ilhan Omar a terrible, terrible person?
Good question.
I don't know if she's a terrible person. If she is anti-Semitic, then she is. An anti-Semite is terrible whether she is a progressive or not. Steve King is a terrible person, right? If they hold the same views on Jews, wouldn't that make them equivalently terrible?
I've never seen anything that would make me think she's anti-Semitic. I think that accusation is completely baseless and disgusting actually.
ok, except for the trope. Which led to a resolution condemning hate in the House because her own colleagues were outraged. Other than that.. yeah disgusting.
Yeah, I thought that it led to that resolution was gross too. Her colleagues did the wrong thing IMO.
Well that's just the thing I was talking about... we cover for our team. We don't see the inherent issue when it's us, but we see it when it's that team over there. "She's a good person because she agrees with me politically" is the mindset. But if someone is a conservative, then we see the nefarious undertones.
I'm not covering for anything at all, and I frankly have no clue what her politics are. All I know about her is related to this particular topic. I guarantee you that if she was a Rep and not a Dem I'd think the exact same thing about it. I think the Democrats COMPLETELY fucked this up, and Ilhan Omar personally did nothing wrong. But she is suffering for it, and the Reps are very hypocritically politically weaponizing the Dems' reaction.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Yes they are weaponizing it, and she should have been smarter. That's been my point as well. They gave the Trump side an opening and it's been exploited. It was going to be weaponized as soon as she typed it. Her Democratic colleagues were offended. They are Jewish. They were offended and saw the trope. You can't say they fucked it up. She fucked it up to start. And Pelosi was forced into damage control and did the best she could to move past it while mollifying her own constituency.
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I don't know if the divide can be bridged. But the current way of shouting at each side that the other is worse accomplishes zero.
www.headstonesband.com
I look forward to when Team Trump Treason is charged with high crimes and misdemeanors and the repubs shrug their shoulders and some on here say dems need to behave themselves and follow the rule of law.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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yeah, dems really should behave themselves and follow the rule of law. what you just stated there is indeed inferring they'd get a pass if they didn't.
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The biggest test yet of Fox’s journalistic standards is the impending showdown over Mueller’s findings. For two years, the network has been priming its viewers to respond with extraordinary anger should the country’s law-enforcement authorities close in on the President. According to Media Matters, in the first year after Mueller was appointed Hannity alone aired four hundred and eighty-six segments attacking the federal criminal investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election; thirty-eight per cent of those segments claimed that law-enforcement officials had broken the law. In recent weeks, Hannity has spoken of “a coup,” and a guest on Laura Ingraham’s program, the lawyer Joseph diGenova, declared, “It’s going to be total war. And, as I say to my friends, I do two things—I vote and I buy guns.”
Link me to the dem/liberal equivalent.
Such breaks with the Trump narrative on Fox are rare, though. Unlike Glenn Beck, Hannity has been allowed to spew baseless conspiracy theories with impunity. For more than a year, Hannity and other hosts spread the lie that the hacking of Democratic Party e-mails during the 2016 campaign was an inside job. Hannity claimed that the hacking had been committed not by Russian cyber-warfare agents, as the U.S. intelligence community concluded, but by a Democratic staffer named Seth Rich, who had been murdered by unknown assailants on a D.C. street. Benkler and his co-authors studied Fox’s coverage, and found that not only did the channel give the Seth Rich lie a national platform; it also used the conspiracy story as a distraction, deploying it as a competing narrative when developments in Mueller’s investigation showed Trump in a bad light. In 2017, after Rich’s parents demanded an apology and advertisers began shunning the network, Fox finally ran a retraction, and Hannity dropped the story.
By then, Fox hosts had begun pushing a different conspiracy: the “Uranium One” story, which Hannity called “the biggest scandal ever involving Russia.” On an October, 2017, broadcast, Hannity claimed that Hillary Clinton, when she was Secretary of State, had given “to Vladimir Putin and Russia twenty per cent of America’s uranium, which is the foundational material to make nuclear weapons.” Ostensibly, the deal was in exchange for giant payments to the Clinton Foundation. Hannity also claimed that “the corrupt, lying mainstream media” was withholding this “bombshell” from Americans, because it was “complicit” in a “huge coverup.” More than a year earlier, the Times had run a front-page story about the deal, based on the right-wing book “Clinton Cash.” But the story had gone cold, because other reporting had poked holes in it, revealing that multiple government agencies had approved the deal, and that the quantity of uranium was insignificant. Yet Fox kept flogging it as the real national-security scandal involving Russia. On “Hannity,” the former Trump White House adviser Sebastian Gorka argued that the Clintons’ crime was equivalent to the Cold War treason of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg—and reminded viewers that the Rosenbergs were executed. Within two days, Trump picked up Fox’s story, tweeting, “Uranium deal to Russia, with Clinton help and Obama Administration knowledge, is the biggest story that Fake Media doesn’t want to follow!”
Link me to the dem/lib equivalent.
As Murdoch’s relations with the White House have warmed, so has Fox’s coverage of Trump. During the Obama years, Fox’s attacks on the President could be seen as reflecting the adversarial role traditionally played by the press. With Trump’s election, the network’s hosts went from questioning power to defending it. Yochai Benkler, a Harvard Law School professor who co-directs the Berkman Klein Center for Internet & Society, says, “Fox’s most important role since the election has been to keep Trump supporters in line.” The network has provided a non-stop counternarrative in which the only collusion is between Hillary Clinton and Russia; Robert Mueller, the special counsel, is perpetrating a “coup” by the “deep state”; Trump and his associates aren’t corrupt, but America’s law-enforcement officials and courts are; illegal immigration isn’t at a fifteen-year low, it’s “an invasion”; and news organizations that offer different perspectives are “enemies of the American people.”
Benkler’s assessment is based on an analysis of millions of American news stories that he and two co-authors, Robert Faris and Hal Roberts, undertook for their 2018 book, “Network Propaganda: Manipulation, Disinformation and Radicalization in American Politics.” Benkler told me that he and his co-authors had expected to find “symmetric polarization” in the left-leaning and the right-leaning media outlets. Instead, they discovered that the two poles of America’s media ecosystem function very differently. “It’s not the right versus the left,” Benkler says. “It’s the right versus the rest.”
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/03/11/the-making-of-the-fox-news-white-house
French, Kasich, Christie, et. al. would all be much better served cleaning up their mess first, the quotes and Faux News being just one mess among the many in their house. That's my point. Stop clinging to power at the expense of democracy, beat us with ideas and policy and not gerrymandered voting districts and legal and illegal vote suppression, regain some civility in your discourse and stop shoving it up our ass (I'm looking at you Mitchy Baby) and maybe, just maybe after we've learned to trust you (you in the generakl sense), we'll respond in kind.
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“Rep. Omar’s comments were wrong and she has proven multiple times that she embodies a vile, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel bigotry. She deserves to be rebuked, by name, and removed from the House Foreign Affairs Committee so that there is no mistake about the values and priorities that the House stands for,” she said.
“For Democratic leadership to kowtow to their radical members and refuse to offer legislative language that criticizes Rep. Omar’s statements in the strongest possible manner confirms what we already knew: that their party is controlled by far-left extremists who can’t even muster the courage to stand up to blatant anti-Semitism."
So that's precisely the opening that Omar gave when she tweeted, and the point of my criticism. If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
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If her point was that we need stop foreign lobbyists from exerting influence and compromising allegiances, then she should have selected Saudi Arabia for her tweet. That would have brought the point across without touching off this issue. Either she is a fool, or it was anti-Israel specifically, possibly anti-Semitic, but I can't see in her heart. I'd like to think she is a fool and a rookie, but we will see.
If you can link to a transcript of her actual comments, I’d appreciate it as all I’ve found was the “Benjamin’s” comment and a description of her rolling her eyes. Full context would be appreciated and I’m not trying to defend her comments but trying to understand what set off the “outrage.” Because mentioning BDS will generate outrage in reference to Israel.
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Yes they are weaponizing it, and she should have been smarter. That's been my point as well. They gave the Trump side an opening and it's been exploited. It was going to be weaponized as soon as she typed it. Her Democratic colleagues were offended. They are Jewish. They were offended and saw the trope. You can't say they fucked it up. She fucked it up to start. And Pelosi was forced into damage control and did the best she could to move past it while mollifying her own constituency.