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Recent Wave of Immigrant Arrests - What Does it Mean?

Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
edited February 2017 in A Moving Train
I started to read about this issue with the story of Garcia de Rayos (CNN article).

I've been trying to get my head around this issue, and the following article has viewpoints from ICE and the ACLU. The main concern seems to be inclusion of immigrants as part of the arrests who don't have criminal histories.

Los Angeles Times article: ICE says L.A. immigration arrests were planned long in advance, not tied to new crackdown

Jennie Pasquarella, director of immigrant rights for the ACLU in California, said the actions taken by ICE in California this week are not necessarily indicative of the hard-line enforcement that Trump promised on the campaign trail, though she did express concerns about reports that some immigrants without criminal histories were caught up in the weeklong operation.

“Even under Obama we had sweeps or big operations where they would go into a particular neighborhood or say that this week we’re going to do a big operation and arrest people with certain profiles in certain parts of the city,” Pasquarella said. “The piece of it that is new is some of the reports that we were getting yesterday indicating that there were people [arrested] who did not have any criminal convictions at all.”

Anyone else read articles that they would recommend about this subject?
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
Post edited by Ms. Haiku on
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Comments

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,587
    big public splash. Still have due process.....
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  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    It is a promising start of hopefully something much bigger.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,587
    unsung said:

    It is a promising start of hopefully something much bigger.

    yep, like the arrest and conviction for the tax fraud by the business owners who hire them.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    mickeyrat said:

    unsung said:

    It is a promising start of hopefully something much bigger.

    yep, like the arrest and conviction for the tax fraud by the business owners who hire them.
    At a minimum. I would prefer prison time for the CEO.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 9,810
    unsung said:

    mickeyrat said:

    unsung said:

    It is a promising start of hopefully something much bigger.

    yep, like the arrest and conviction for the tax fraud by the business owners who hire them.
    At a minimum. I would prefer prison time for the CEO.
    Yeah, seen lots of that happening the last few days. Those white collar business owners are running to Canada, eh? The problem with Trump's law & order agendas are that they just widen the divide between the injustice of the poor and less privileged while the rich benefit with no consequence.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Sounds like something Jesus would have said.
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 9,810
    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    When we've fixed the system that allows and perpetuates the massive disparities of class and economic structure.

    When it comes to those who abuse the system on either end, zero tolerance. Our president, unfortunately, is an abuser on the upper end so let's not forget to punish/cut off both who use it for gain.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited February 2017
    dignin said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Sounds like something Jesus would have said.
    Probably would have also said that we shouldn't rely on our taxing government to help them, but should do it out of our own pockets. I, personally, tithe 10% of my income to my church that directly assists "poor" in our community and I donate extra to the Christian Relief fund effort (which is a wonderful program if you are not familiar). I donate two or three deer every year that I hunt to assist in feeding the poor as well. Not trying to push Christianity or hunting on anyone, but how do all of you assist your communities outside of being taxed (just curious)? There would not be a need for any kind of these poor quality government programs if people took it upon themselves to help each other instead of relying on the damn government to "solve" all of our problems. Where exactly has the government ever been good at handling finances or allocating funds? If people didn't suck, we would not need these ridiculous taxes...how do we get people to stop sucking is the real obstacle!
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    tbergs said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    When we've fixed the system that allows and perpetuates the massive disparities of class and economic structure.

    When it comes to those who abuse the system on either end, zero tolerance. Our president, unfortunately, is an abuser on the upper end so let's not forget to punish/cut off both who use it for gain.
    At some point the rock will stop bleeding.
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    PJPOWER said:

    dignin said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Sounds like something Jesus would have said.
    Probably would have also said that we shouldn't rely on our taxing government to help them, but should do it out of our own pockets. I, personally, tithe 10% of my income to my church that directly assists "poor" in our community and I donate extra to the Christian Relief fund effort (which is a wonderful program if you are not familiar). I donate two or three deer every year that I hunt to assist in feeding the poor as well. Not trying to push Christianity or hunting on anyone, but how do all of you assist your communities outside of being taxed (just curious)? There would not be a need for any kind of these poor quality government programs if people took it upon themselves to help each other instead of relying on the damn government to "solve" all of our problems. Where exactly has the government ever been good at handling finances or allocating funds? If people didn't suck, we would not need these ridiculous taxes...how do we get people to stop sucking is the real obstacle!
    You can't get people to stop "sucking". That is why we need taxes and government run programs in a civil society.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    edited February 2017
    Fine. Let's limit it to people already here, not bring in more that will drain the limited resources available.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    dignin said:

    PJPOWER said:

    dignin said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Sounds like something Jesus would have said.
    Probably would have also said that we shouldn't rely on our taxing government to help them, but should do it out of our own pockets. I, personally, tithe 10% of my income to my church that directly assists "poor" in our community and I donate extra to the Christian Relief fund effort (which is a wonderful program if you are not familiar). I donate two or three deer every year that I hunt to assist in feeding the poor as well. Not trying to push Christianity or hunting on anyone, but how do all of you assist your communities outside of being taxed (just curious)? There would not be a need for any kind of these poor quality government programs if people took it upon themselves to help each other instead of relying on the damn government to "solve" all of our problems. Where exactly has the government ever been good at handling finances or allocating funds? If people didn't suck, we would not need these ridiculous taxes...how do we get people to stop sucking is the real obstacle!
    You can't get people to stop "sucking". That is why we need taxes and government run programs in a civil society.
    Unfortunately and evidently you cannot get the government to stop sucking either...
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    unsung said:

    Fine. Let's limit it to people already here, not bring in more that will drain the limited resources available.

    It's like adopting more children when you cannot provide for the ones you already have...
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Right now, for most situations, birth means everything.

    Some babies, like us and ours, are born into pleasant circumstances. Others are born into poor circumstances. When we recognize our good fortunes and acknowledge those with misfortunes... we likely won't be so abject to assisting others.

    Hoarding massive amounts of wealth earned as a lucky baby on the backs of others is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. We need a more equitable model for wealth distribution that still respects a baby's lottery win- being born to wealth- but allows for babies born unto poor circumstances the opportunity to crawl out of the gutter.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,942
    These problems that exist today are because people didn't want to follow the laws on the books. Cities think they are doing people a favor by setting up "sanctuary cities", but at the end of the day they are helping people break the law and are responsible for the their fear of being deported. When the Feds come these cities and illegals get angry at the government instead of themselves for knowingly breaking the law. It is like getting pulled over for speeding. We get mad at the cop but at the end of the day the only fault is the person speeding.

    Legal immigration allows order. We need immigrants from Mexico as they work a lot harder than some of these spoiled, lazy, drugged up American twenty somethings. By disregarding the laws on the books it brings disorder. If you don't like the laws on the books, than try to change them.

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Right now, for most situations, birth means everything.

    Some babies, like us and ours, are born into pleasant circumstances. Others are born into poor circumstances. When we recognize our good fortunes and acknowledge those with misfortunes... we likely won't be so abject to assisting others.

    Hoarding massive amounts of wealth earned as a lucky baby on the backs of others is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. We need a more equitable model for wealth distribution that still respects a baby's lottery win- being born to wealth- but allows for babies born unto poor circumstances the opportunity to crawl out of the gutter.
    Well said, Thirty.

    Some societies do a much better job than others of making things more equitable, at least for those within their society. Not all societies share the "claw myself to the top" mentality of the USA.

    Don't forget you're also a citizen of the world, not just a citizen of the USA.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336
    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Right now, for most situations, birth means everything.

    Some babies, like us and ours, are born into pleasant circumstances. Others are born into poor circumstances. When we recognize our good fortunes and acknowledge those with misfortunes... we likely won't be so abject to assisting others.

    Hoarding massive amounts of wealth earned as a lucky baby on the backs of others is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. We need a more equitable model for wealth distribution that still respects a baby's lottery win- being born to wealth- but allows for babies born unto poor circumstances the opportunity to crawl out of the gutter.
    Clapping emoji.
  • EdsonNascimentoEdsonNascimento Posts: 5,521
    oftenreading said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Right now, for most situations, birth means everything.

    Some babies, like us and ours, are born into pleasant circumstances. Others are born into poor circumstances. When we recognize our good fortunes and acknowledge those with misfortunes... we likely won't be so abject to assisting others.

    Hoarding massive amounts of wealth earned as a lucky baby on the backs of others is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. We need a more equitable model for wealth distribution that still respects a baby's lottery win- being born to wealth- but allows for babies born unto poor circumstances the opportunity to crawl out of the gutter.
    Well said, Thirty.

    Some societies do a much better job than others of making things more equitable, at least for those within their society. Not all societies share the "claw myself to the top" mentality of the USA.

    Don't forget you're also a citizen of the world, not just a citizen of the USA.
    Funny. Why do so many people still want to come here? We are a terrible, terrible society. I'm baffled by the immigration debate based on this. There's no opportunity. The rich just keep getting richer and the poor just keep getting poorer. Why on earth would anyone want to come here? It seems going to the more socialistic/equitable societies would make a hell of a lot more sense.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    EdsonNascimento said:

    oftenreading said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Right now, for most situations, birth means everything.

    Some babies, like us and ours, are born into pleasant circumstances. Others are born into poor circumstances. When we recognize our good fortunes and acknowledge those with misfortunes... we likely won't be so abject to assisting others.

    Hoarding massive amounts of wealth earned as a lucky baby on the backs of others is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. We need a more equitable model for wealth distribution that still respects a baby's lottery win- being born to wealth- but allows for babies born unto poor circumstances the opportunity to crawl out of the gutter.
    Well said, Thirty.

    Some societies do a much better job than others of making things more equitable, at least for those within their society. Not all societies share the "claw myself to the top" mentality of the USA.

    Don't forget you're also a citizen of the world, not just a citizen of the USA.
    Funny. Why do so many people still want to come here? We are a terrible, terrible society. I'm baffled by the immigration debate based on this. There's no opportunity. The rich just keep getting richer and the poor just keep getting poorer. Why on earth would anyone want to come here? It seems going to the more socialistic/equitable societies would make a hell of a lot more sense.
    If you don't think refugees and immigrants are also going to the more equitable societies then you really aren't paying attention to the world outside your borders.

    People in desperate circumstances are going wherever they can get to.

    Are you aware that dozens of people have crossed the border from the USA to Canada in the past week to make refugee claims here instead of in your country? They have lost confidence in the US's willingness and ability to assist them rather than compound their difficulties.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,942
    Literally dozens of people?
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    EdsonNascimento said:

    oftenreading said:

    Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Right now, for most situations, birth means everything.

    Some babies, like us and ours, are born into pleasant circumstances. Others are born into poor circumstances. When we recognize our good fortunes and acknowledge those with misfortunes... we likely won't be so abject to assisting others.

    Hoarding massive amounts of wealth earned as a lucky baby on the backs of others is fundamentally wrong in my opinion. We need a more equitable model for wealth distribution that still respects a baby's lottery win- being born to wealth- but allows for babies born unto poor circumstances the opportunity to crawl out of the gutter.
    Well said, Thirty.

    Some societies do a much better job than others of making things more equitable, at least for those within their society. Not all societies share the "claw myself to the top" mentality of the USA.

    Don't forget you're also a citizen of the world, not just a citizen of the USA.
    Funny. Why do so many people still want to come here? We are a terrible, terrible society. I'm baffled by the immigration debate based on this. There's no opportunity. The rich just keep getting richer and the poor just keep getting poorer. Why on earth would anyone want to come here? It seems going to the more socialistic/equitable societies would make a hell of a lot more sense.
    I've never said the US is the shits. I will say you haven't got things completely figured out- no country does.

    You can't deny the income disparity that exists in your country. You're a lucky baby. Congratulations for winning the lottery of life. Now, as you bask in your luckiness, consider what steps might be taken to make life a little better for those not as lucky as you.

    Capitalism is great- when you're on the 'great' side. Do you seriously think you could get to where you have gotten to today if you had been born as a black baby in, say, Chicago? Or a Mexican infant born in Juarez where your choices for occupation are selling Chicklets or joining one of the cartels that service the drug consuming base of America?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • KatKat Posts: 4,871
    What I recall is that back in the 80s, our country looked the other way while people came over the border because business wanted cheap labor. You know who was in office during the 80s. I think that created the situation we find ourselves in now and it's really a betrayal to the families that came to work here and raise their families and now are being treated as criminals because the situation has changed and they're also being scape-goated. It really sucks but not everyone has forgotten the past few decades and what happened. However this is handled in the future, there shouldn't be pain for these families. imho
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,538
    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Maybe when there is no more poverty , otherwise I'd say we can't stop ever !
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,085
    unsung said:

    tbergs said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Compassion isn't a finite resource, so never.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,085
    edited February 2017

    .
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    bootlegger10 said:

    Literally dozens of people?

    LOL. They have it so rough those Canadians.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    josevolution said:

    unsung said:

    At what point have we met our moral obligation to help poor people?

    Maybe when there is no more poverty , otherwise I'd say we can't stop ever !
    We can't empty the boat when water keeps flowing in.
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    PJPOWER said:

    unsung said:

    Fine. Let's limit it to people already here, not bring in more that will drain the limited resources available.

    It's like adopting more children when you cannot provide for the ones you already have...
    Exactly.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Posts: 36,982
    unsung said:

    bootlegger10 said:

    Literally dozens of people?

    LOL. They have it so rough those Canadians.
    the point is many people are fleeing the US and coming to Canada, in the middle of winter, on foot. I thought the US was the land of opportunity!
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




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