60 to Zero in Three Months Flat

PJfanwillneverleave1

PJ_Soul said:

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.

Well, if everyone in my state did what I'm doing, that would make a difference. But the reality is that most people will vote for one of the two major parties, and for my state that will mean a fairly safe victory for Hillary. My vote won't affect Hillary's chances for becoming president the same way it would if I was in a state that is up for grabs. I don't mean to say that my vote doesn't matter, just that it won't affect the outcome of this particular race. If I thought for a minute that my vote would be the difference in deciding the race, I'd definitely be voting against Trump.

Well the change I had in mind was switching to a representative democracy. The US can't really have anything other than a two-party system and still be a democratic republic. It just won't work. And if your country is operating under a system that basically forces a two-party system, voting for other parties is pointless, isn't it? The US has to stop being entrenched in this two-party system before people not voting for one of the two parties does anything other than potentially put the worst option in the White House.

This is what Trump has been saying all along.

Doesn't matter what Trump says. He's a lunatic.

And people wonder why he's coasting down from his pinnacle to the whitehouse.
Nevermind Donald, don't worry about him they say.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

Exactly!

Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.

What? Are you speaking for a country you don't even live in? Yes it would. Sanders has Millions of supporters behind him. It would truly have made a difference if the primaries in all states were open.

BTW, in case you forgot, Bernie ran as a Democrat.

PJfanwillneverleave1

^^^
What does BTW mean?
Is it needed in a sentence?

jeffbr

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
What does BTW mean?
Is it needed in a sentence?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=BTW

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

^^^
What does BTW mean?
Is it needed in a sentence?

Leave me alone dude.

Free

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

Exactly!

Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.

What? Are you speaking for a country you don't even live in? Yes it would. Sanders has Millions of supporters behind him. It would truly have made a difference if the primaries in all states were open.

BTW, in case you forgot, Bernie ran as a Democrat.

I'm talking about voters. Independent voters were disenfranchised from voting in closed primaries. But you knew that...

brianlux

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

PJ_Soul

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

Well really there is no point either way Brian.

I seriously doubt anything you do here is going to cost you any friendships! I don't think of this group as fickle.

PJfanwillneverleave1

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

You will keep friendships if you don't vote Trump.
So I have heard.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

Well really there is no point either way Brian.

I seriously doubt anything you do here is going to cost you any friendships! I don't think of this group as fickle.

I guess maybe I thought that because I was remembering about how a friend one time told me it was his birthday and asked me how old I thought he was. I tried to play it safe and guess low and said, "23?" He got really pissed because it was his 21st birthday. He never said another word to me. Not one word ever!

No, I don't think y'all are that fickle.

Just my insecurity talking I guess.

jnimhaoileoin

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.

I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton

Just a view from the outside...

I'm with you. Your second to last sentence sums it up perfectly.

Of course it does, because you choose to vote based on fear.

I am fortunate to live in a country where fear is not an emotion any of our politicians inspire in us, amongst a multitude of other differences for which I am extremely grateful

Free

jnimhaoileoin said:

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.

I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton

Just a view from the outside...

I'm with you. Your second to last sentence sums it up perfectly.

Of course it does, because you choose to vote based on fear.

I am fortunate to live in a country where fear is not an emotion any of our politicians inspire in us, amongst a multitude of other differences for which I am extremely grateful

Fear is commonly spread in the US through the media (3especially Fox News), presidential candidates and civilians who are feel they need guns for safety. It's nuts here!!

Calgon, take me away!

josevolution

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

You will keep friendships if you don't vote Trump.
So I have heard.

That's absurd I don't know anyone here personally and could care less how anyone votes , man the crap you come up with !

josevolution

No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !

brianlux

josevolution said:

No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !

Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."

rgambs

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

The point where we disagree is in whether or not voting for Clinton is something worth believing in.
I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff...
I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.

OffSheGoes35

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

The point where we disagree is in whether or not voting for Clinton is something worth believing in.
I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff...
I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.

That's how I feel too. And I don't think we're the only ones.

brianlux

OffSheGoes35 said:

rgambs said:

brianlux said:

The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?

By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.

Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!

The point where we disagree is in whether or not voting for Clinton is something worth believing in.
I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff...
I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.

That's how I feel too. And I don't think we're the only ones.

And I feel the same way as you both with perhaps one major difference- I don't just think of suffering as human suffering. I want a president that sees the world more holistically, that understands that all life, not just human life is both valuable, interconnected and worth caring for. Neither Trump nor Clinton think or act that way. Sanders and especially Stein do. We will either move away from the corporate driven status quo politics toward a healthy sustainable world view or we will die and take a large chunk of the rest of life with us. Sounds over-simplified but I absolutely believe what I'm saying is true.

catefrances

brianlux said:

josevolution said:

No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !

Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."

and let's hope it's not gonna be trump.

brianlux

catefrances said:

brianlux said:

josevolution said:

No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !

Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."

and let's hope it's not gonna be trump.

I'm actually not worried about that.

If turns out I'm wrong I will... I will...

...how about if I buy everyone a round? Win-win!