I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.
Well, if everyone in my state did what I'm doing, that would make a difference. But the reality is that most people will vote for one of the two major parties, and for my state that will mean a fairly safe victory for Hillary. My vote won't affect Hillary's chances for becoming president the same way it would if I was in a state that is up for grabs. I don't mean to say that my vote doesn't matter, just that it won't affect the outcome of this particular race. If I thought for a minute that my vote would be the difference in deciding the race, I'd definitely be voting against Trump.
Well the change I had in mind was switching to a representative democracy. The US can't really have anything other than a two-party system and still be a democratic republic. It just won't work. And if your country is operating under a system that basically forces a two-party system, voting for other parties is pointless, isn't it? The US has to stop being entrenched in this two-party system before people not voting for one of the two parties does anything other than potentially put the worst option in the White House.
This is what Trump has been saying all along.
Doesn't matter what Trump says. He's a lunatic.
And people wonder why he's coasting down from his pinnacle to the whitehouse. Nevermind Donald, don't worry about him they say.
But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.
Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.
Exactly!
Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.
What? Are you speaking for a country you don't even live in? Yes it would. Sanders has Millions of supporters behind him. It would truly have made a difference if the primaries in all states were open.
BTW, in case you forgot, Bernie ran as a Democrat.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.
Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.
Exactly!
Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.
What? Are you speaking for a country you don't even live in? Yes it would. Sanders has Millions of supporters behind him. It would truly have made a difference if the primaries in all states were open.
BTW, in case you forgot, Bernie ran as a Democrat.
I'm talking about voters. Independent voters were disenfranchised from voting in closed primaries. But you knew that...
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
Well really there is no point either way Brian.
I seriously doubt anything you do here is going to cost you any friendships! I don't think of this group as fickle.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
You will keep friendships if you don't vote Trump. So I have heard.
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
Well really there is no point either way Brian.
I seriously doubt anything you do here is going to cost you any friendships! I don't think of this group as fickle.
I guess maybe I thought that because I was remembering about how a friend one time told me it was his birthday and asked me how old I thought he was. I tried to play it safe and guess low and said, "23?" He got really pissed because it was his 21st birthday. He never said another word to me. Not one word ever!
No, I don't think y'all are that fickle.
Just my insecurity talking I guess.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.
I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton
Just a view from the outside...
I'm with you. Your second to last sentence sums it up perfectly.
Of course it does, because you choose to vote based on fear.
I am fortunate to live in a country where fear is not an emotion any of our politicians inspire in us, amongst a multitude of other differences for which I am extremely grateful
Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.
I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton
Just a view from the outside...
I'm with you. Your second to last sentence sums it up perfectly.
Of course it does, because you choose to vote based on fear.
I am fortunate to live in a country where fear is not an emotion any of our politicians inspire in us, amongst a multitude of other differences for which I am extremely grateful
Fear is commonly spread in the US through the media (3especially Fox News), presidential candidates and civilians who are feel they need guns for safety. It's nuts here!!
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
You will keep friendships if you don't vote Trump. So I have heard.
That's absurd I don't know anyone here personally and could care less how anyone votes , man the crap you come up with !
No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !
No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !
Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
The point where we disagree is in whether or not voting for Clinton is something worth believing in. I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff... I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
The point where we disagree is in whether or not voting for Clinton is something worth believing in. I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff... I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.
That's how I feel too. And I don't think we're the only ones.
The more I hear how people are voting against someone instead of for someone the more I believe I would vote for Stein even if I lived in a swing state. Why? Because if I don't do what I believe in, well then what's the point?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
The point where we disagree is in whether or not voting for Clinton is something worth believing in. I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff... I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.
That's how I feel too. And I don't think we're the only ones.
And I feel the same way as you both with perhaps one major difference- I don't just think of suffering as human suffering. I want a president that sees the world more holistically, that understands that all life, not just human life is both valuable, interconnected and worth caring for. Neither Trump nor Clinton think or act that way. Sanders and especially Stein do. We will either move away from the corporate driven status quo politics toward a healthy sustainable world view or we will die and take a large chunk of the rest of life with us. Sounds over-simplified but I absolutely believe what I'm saying is true.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !
Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."
and let's hope it's not gonna be trump.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !
Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."
and let's hope it's not gonna be trump.
I'm actually not worried about that.
If turns out I'm wrong I will... I will...
...how about if I buy everyone a round? Win-win!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !
Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."
and let's hope it's not gonna be trump.
I'm actually not worried about that.
If turns out I'm wrong I will... I will...
...how about if I buy everyone a round? Win-win!
tbh I'm optimist. as much a possibility as it is I see it as improbable. but I will take that drink either way Brian
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
No matter who you vote for the next president will be your president you can say oh his/she's not my president unless your ready to leave the country they will be your president !
Yes indeed. Like my wife likes to say, "It's gonna be what it's gonna be."
and let's hope it's not gonna be trump.
I'm actually not worried about that.
If turns out I'm wrong I will... I will...
...how about if I buy everyone a round? Win-win!
tbh I'm optimist. as much a possibility as it is I see it as improbable. but I will take that drink either way Brian
You got it, Cate! Cheers!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Sorry Brian ... have to disagree, he accomplished zip. Obama care a joke, try universal health care. Continued drone strikes and probably intensified, participating in air strikes over Syria without boots on the ground is cowardly, just plain cowardly and sick and leads to more hatred of the west, continued friendship of one of the most evil empires on earth in Saudi Arabia. And I don't support boots on the ground ... a complete boycott and the west getting completely out of the Middle East ... now that'd be an accomplishment.
As for this apparent uncontrolled illegal immigration ... I've been to California many times as recently as the summer of 2015 ... I won't go back. It's polluted, over populated, congested beyond belief, need I go on. Human activity and over population is destroying your state...My last visit was Sequoia bueatiful national park, the park service does a wonderful job except for that horrible haze that was hanging over the park...Americans want uncontrolled immigration for cheap food on their tables, not you personally, but an aweful lot. Sorry both the republicans and democrats suck as things are now.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Sorry Brian ... have to disagree, he accomplished zip. Obama care a joke, try universal health care. Continued drone strikes and probably intensified, participating in air strikes over Syria without boots on the ground is cowardly, just plain cowardly and sick and leads to more hatred of the west, continued friendship of one of the most evil empires on earth in Saudi Arabia. And I don't support boots on the ground ... a complete boycott and the west getting completely out of the Middle East ... now that'd be an accomplishment.
As for this apparent uncontrolled illegal immigration ... I've been to California many times as recently as the summer of 2015 ... I won't go back. It's polluted, over populated, congested beyond belief, need I go on. Human activity and over population is destroying your state...My last visit was Sequoia bueatiful national park, the park service does a wonderful job except for that horrible haze that was hanging over the park...Americans want uncontrolled immigration for cheap food on their tables, not you personally, but an aweful lot. Sorry both the republicans and democrats suck as things are now.
My view of Obama is that he has been a relatively good president though also disappoint in some ways, but certainly MUCH better than some of the previous presidents in that last several decades (Bush, Reagan, Ford to start with). But in any case, to my way of thinking, until we break away from the status quo, progress will be slow at best.
As for California, oh man (moan), tell me about it! I was born here and have lived 60 of my almost 65 years here and have seen it go from achingly beautiful to nearly destroyed. Almost every time I go out now I see more pine tree die off. The state artificially suppressed fire here for 100 years and now it is burning most of the year. We're about 240 miles north east of the Soberanes Fire in Los Padres National Forest and yet still for a little over a week now we have watched the lengthy stretches of thick smoke hang over the Sacramento Valley and much of the time create a good deal of haze here at 2,000 foot elevation. It will burn for another month. Every year new roads, new strip malls, new housing developments slapped together spring up all over the state. The population continues to expand unabated. The flower walk to Lake Winnemucca at over 8,000 feet which we have taken for years has now become a foot traffic highway of people, many of whom are noisy and clueless about the frailty of that environment. San Francisco, once the most beautiful AND affordable city in America is now a haven for dotcomers who have no clue as to the history and culture that once make it a great city and have made it inaccessible for any but the wealthiest among us (not me and I once lives there for three year). And so forth, ad nauseam.
These are days of despair and ruin here in California. This destruction, considering its breadth, has occurred over a relatively short period of time and it is indicative to what we are doing to the planet as a whole. Another status quo president will not help us move forward to abate the destruction. Any more, taking a lesser of two evils approach is laughable. Saying Clinton is better than Trump, for example, is like saying we'll only load the camel with only 600 pounds instead of a 1,000 when 530 pounds will break the camel's back. We would do well to stop fooling ourselves that way and get on with the business of saving ours and the many, many other species at serious risk due to our short sighted thinking and behavior.
Like many of you, I get frustrated and disillusioned. It's probably why I joke a lot- to keep my head from exploding. And I don't mean to sound lecturing or self righteous. We're all part of the problem. We can all do better. Let's at least start by acknowledging the severity and reality of the situation.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
Nevermind Donald, don't worry about him they say.
What does BTW mean?
Is it needed in a sentence?
By the way, I hope my stance does not cost me any friendships. Please remember that Edward Abbey quote.
Bye the way, bye the way, I'm listening to Social Distortion. What a sound track for these times!
I seriously doubt anything you do here is going to cost you any friendships! I don't think of this group as fickle.
So I have heard.
No, I don't think y'all are that fickle.
Just my insecurity talking I guess.
Calgon, take me away!
I have seen deep suffering in my life, real shitty stuff...
I want the President which is least likely to increase suffering in the world, and that is Clinton. I will be proud to vote for her, though I would be exponentially more thrilled to vote for Sanders or Stein if they had a chance.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
If turns out I'm wrong I will... I will...
...how about if I buy everyone a round? Win-win!
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
As for this apparent uncontrolled illegal immigration ... I've been to California many times as recently as the summer of 2015 ... I won't go back. It's polluted, over populated, congested beyond belief, need I go on. Human activity and over population is destroying your state...My last visit was Sequoia bueatiful national park, the park service does a wonderful job except for that horrible haze that was hanging over the park...Americans want uncontrolled immigration for cheap food on their tables, not you personally, but an aweful lot. Sorry both the republicans and democrats suck as things are now.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
As for California, oh man (moan), tell me about it! I was born here and have lived 60 of my almost 65 years here and have seen it go from achingly beautiful to nearly destroyed. Almost every time I go out now I see more pine tree die off. The state artificially suppressed fire here for 100 years and now it is burning most of the year. We're about 240 miles north east of the Soberanes Fire in Los Padres National Forest and yet still for a little over a week now we have watched the lengthy stretches of thick smoke hang over the Sacramento Valley and much of the time create a good deal of haze here at 2,000 foot elevation. It will burn for another month. Every year new roads, new strip malls, new housing developments slapped together spring up all over the state. The population continues to expand unabated. The flower walk to Lake Winnemucca at over 8,000 feet which we have taken for years has now become a foot traffic highway of people, many of whom are noisy and clueless about the frailty of that environment. San Francisco, once the most beautiful AND affordable city in America is now a haven for dotcomers who have no clue as to the history and culture that once make it a great city and have made it inaccessible for any but the wealthiest among us (not me and I once lives there for three year). And so forth, ad nauseam.
These are days of despair and ruin here in California. This destruction, considering its breadth, has occurred over a relatively short period of time and it is indicative to what we are doing to the planet as a whole. Another status quo president will not help us move forward to abate the destruction. Any more, taking a lesser of two evils approach is laughable. Saying Clinton is better than Trump, for example, is like saying we'll only load the camel with only 600 pounds instead of a 1,000 when 530 pounds will break the camel's back. We would do well to stop fooling ourselves that way and get on with the business of saving ours and the many, many other species at serious risk due to our short sighted thinking and behavior.
Like many of you, I get frustrated and disillusioned. It's probably why I joke a lot- to keep my head from exploding. And I don't mean to sound lecturing or self righteous. We're all part of the problem. We can all do better. Let's at least start by acknowledging the severity and reality of the situation.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Why are Americans upset - it's democracy in action that liberal want so much.