60 to Zero in Three Months Flat

PJfanwillneverleave1

PJ_Soul said:

I'm not buying your fear mantra. But it does remind me that most Americans are HIGHLY emotional about this election. Unusually so. That is not a good thing.

Yes it is.
It demonstrates that radlibs have emotions too.

jeffbr

I'm not a Dem or Rep, and haven't been for a couple of decades. I'll be voting for Gary Johnson. Not out of fear or emotion, but rather out of principle. I would never vote for Trump, and I don't have many good things to say about Hillary. She'd be the lesser of two evils if I was inclined to vote that way, but I'd rather not vote for any evils. Besides, as a resident of Washington State, my vote won't matter anyway. Hillary will take the state. There are only a handful of states that will decide this election and my state isn't one of them.

PJfanwillneverleave1

jeffbr said:

Besides, as a resident of Washington State, my vote won't matter anyway. Hillary will take the state. There are only a handful of states that will decide this election and my state isn't one of them.

And the radlibs continue to ask for proof that the system is rigged.

PJ_Soul

I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

brianlux said:

I mean really, from two terms of a well spoken charismatic man like Barrack Obama to CLINTON VS TRUMP??? Are you kidding me??? Does this disturb anyone else here as much as it does me? I know, rhetorical question, obviously it does. But we keep going back and forth with THOSE TWO???

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

I don't actually feel like Clinton is all that different from Obama in most ways. Charisma goes that far with you?

Well, remember firstly that I have said repeatedly that our President should not be all powerful. A true democracy involves far more than the whims of one person. However, that one individual ideally is someone who represents us well. Obama has not been perfect but for the most part he has represented us well. Trump would represent the majority of us very poorly (need I even say that!) and Hillary would represent us as someone who gets away with shit and is dishonest and twists the rules to her favor. That's not who I want to represent me.

Free

jnimhaoileoin said:

Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.

I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton

Just a view from the outside...

Please watch this video as an outsider and ANYONE who WANTS TO UNDERSTAND SANDERS SUPPORTERS. This Sanders delegate from Vermont talks to Amy Goodman.

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/7/27/former_vt_delegate_who_joined_sanders

PJ_Soul

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

brianlux

jnimhaoileoin said:

Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.

I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton

Just a view from the outside...

In a swing state that might be true. In a state like California, not true. California is all over Hillary. I am very fortunate to be able to vote for someone other than DT or HRC and not worry about the outcome. In fact, being from California, I consider it in some ways to be my responsibility to not vote for DT or HRC.

Free

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.

I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton

Just a view from the outside...

I'm with you. Your second to last sentence sums it up perfectly.

Of course it does, because you choose to vote based on fear.

brianlux

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

jeffbr

PJ_Soul said:

I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.

Well, if everyone in my state did what I'm doing, that would make a difference. But the reality is that most people will vote for one of the two major parties, and for my state that will mean a fairly safe victory for Hillary. My vote won't affect Hillary's chances for becoming president the same way it would if I was in a state that is up for grabs. I don't mean to say that my vote doesn't matter, just that it won't affect the outcome of this particular race. If I thought for a minute that my vote would be the difference in deciding the race, I'd definitely be voting against Trump.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

jnimhaoileoin said:

Genuine question for those voting for someone other than Trump or Clinton. I assume you are largely Democrats, so surely you realise that in voting against the Democratic candidate, you are helping the Republicans? Whatever you think of Clinton, I really would have thought the most important thing is to stop Trump winning.

I would have thought the warm glow of self-satisfaction and integrity would be rather painfully ripped away from you were Trump to win as a result of all those Democrats voting against Clinton

Just a view from the outside...

I'm with you. Your second to last sentence sums it up perfectly.

Of course it does, because you choose to vote based on fear.

Nope (not that I'm voting in this case). Based on logic.

Free

jeffbr said:

I'm not a Dem or Rep, and haven't been for a couple of decades. I'll be voting for Gary Johnson. Not out of fear or emotion, but rather out of principle. I would never vote for Trump, and I don't have many good things to say about Hillary. She'd be the lesser of two evils if I was inclined to vote that way, but I'd rather not vote for any evils. Besides, as a resident of Washington State, my vote won't matter anyway. Hillary will take the state. There are only a handful of states that will decide this election and my state isn't one of them.

Thank you. As a NYer, my vote wont matter anyway. The reason I keep bringing up fear, is because I've been seeing a lot of people around me get wrapped up in the hatred for Trump. Pbbt. I can't let someone like that affect my emotional wellbeing like others do. If anyone's not worth it, he's not!

PJ_Soul

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.

Well, if everyone in my state did what I'm doing, that would make a difference. But the reality is that most people will vote for one of the two major parties, and for my state that will mean a fairly safe victory for Hillary. My vote won't affect Hillary's chances for becoming president the same way it would if I was in a state that is up for grabs. I don't mean to say that my vote doesn't matter, just that it won't affect the outcome of this particular race. If I thought for a minute that my vote would be the difference in deciding the race, I'd definitely be voting against Trump.

Well the change I had in mind was switching to a representative democracy. The US can't really have anything other than a two-party system and still be a democratic republic. It just won't work. And if your country is operating under a system that basically forces a two-party system, voting for other parties is pointless, isn't it? The US has to stop being entrenched in this two-party system before people not voting for one of the two parties does anything other than potentially put the worst option in the White House.

Free

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

Exactly!

PJ_Soul

Free said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

Exactly!

Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.

Free

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

Exactly!

Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.

What? Are you speaking for a country you don't even live in? Yes it would. Sanders has Millions of supporters behind him. It would truly have made a difference if the primaries in all states were open.

PJfanwillneverleave1

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.

Well, if everyone in my state did what I'm doing, that would make a difference. But the reality is that most people will vote for one of the two major parties, and for my state that will mean a fairly safe victory for Hillary. My vote won't affect Hillary's chances for becoming president the same way it would if I was in a state that is up for grabs. I don't mean to say that my vote doesn't matter, just that it won't affect the outcome of this particular race. If I thought for a minute that my vote would be the difference in deciding the race, I'd definitely be voting against Trump.

Well the change I had in mind was switching to a representative democracy. The US can't really have anything other than a two-party system and still be a democratic republic. It just won't work. And if your country is operating under a system that basically forces a two-party system, voting for other parties is pointless, isn't it? The US has to stop being entrenched in this two-party system before people not voting for one of the two parties does anything other than potentially put the worst option in the White House.

This is what Trump has been saying all along.

PJ_Soul

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

PJ_Soul said:

jeffbr said:

PJ_Soul said:

I don't actually understand why any of you who aren't in a swing state vote at all then. You're saying that your vote won't matter. Others are saying the same. So why bother?? If everyone who doesn't live in a swing state just didn't vote maybe that would actually motivate a change to this stupid system. Throwing votes to various hopeless third parties sure isn't going to do it.

Well, if everyone in my state did what I'm doing, that would make a difference. But the reality is that most people will vote for one of the two major parties, and for my state that will mean a fairly safe victory for Hillary. My vote won't affect Hillary's chances for becoming president the same way it would if I was in a state that is up for grabs. I don't mean to say that my vote doesn't matter, just that it won't affect the outcome of this particular race. If I thought for a minute that my vote would be the difference in deciding the race, I'd definitely be voting against Trump.

Well the change I had in mind was switching to a representative democracy. The US can't really have anything other than a two-party system and still be a democratic republic. It just won't work. And if your country is operating under a system that basically forces a two-party system, voting for other parties is pointless, isn't it? The US has to stop being entrenched in this two-party system before people not voting for one of the two parties does anything other than potentially put the worst option in the White House.

This is what Trump has been saying all along.

Doesn't matter what Trump says. He's a lunatic.

PJ_Soul

Free said:

PJ_Soul said:

Free said:

brianlux said:

PJ_Soul said:

But I'm a (non-voting) Sanders supporter. I mean I was fucking gung-ho for him. I think he is one of the greatest politicians that the US has ever managed to produce and he gives me hope and all that good shit, and I agree with basically every single thing that comes out of his mouth. And I still think jnimhaoileoin's point is a good one.

Only in a swing state. And even then only "maybe". If you believe in voting for the person you truly believe is best, that's how you vote regardless. When people start voting that way, we will take a step forward. A big step.

Exactly!

Sorry, not at all. Not in the US. It's a nice thought though.

What? Are you speaking for a country you don't even live in? Yes it would. Sanders has Millions of supporters behind him. It would truly have made a difference if the primaries in all states were open.

Oh my god, I'm so sorry, I already forgot. IMO.