From a public education standpoint, I can say that since the inception of NCLB, we are well aware of persistent, systemic differences in outcomes among various sub-groups. In my district, we are at the point now where we keep lists of our students categorized by race/ethnicity and socioeconomic status, and if we are targeting anything, it's to provide our minority struggling students with extra help. I have actually had conversations with my administrators where I was told that if I have to make hard choices about who to spend my limited amount of time with, choose the minority struggling students over the white kids because it's the minority students' test scores that matter. We attend cultural sensitivity training, we provide books, models, and examples that reflect their culture and history, we have translators/social workers/counselors to work with families. You name it. I teach in a wealthy, but diverse, school district where the disparities are stark.
Sad part is that in 15 years of this kind of "data driven reform" targeting minorities, we have made statistically insignificant improvements in outcomes. Anecdotal report from the front lines: It's because my minority students, in general, don't give a shit about getting an education. And they come from good families, too, parents who knock them upside the head when they don't do well. But the kids themselves just don't care, they don't see the implications down the line for their future. Their peer group influence, fraught with all its cultural distractions, are more important than anything else to them at age 13. Their social media entertainment is way more interesting to them than the hard work it takes to become a good reader. So the achievement gap persists in spite of 15 years of effort systematically targeting minorities for improvement.
It's frustrating to watch, to say the least.
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,736
Are any of you here involved in this debate about BLM actually black?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Are any of you here involved in this debate about BLM actually black?
Very interesting question. I wonder if it would change how others post if someone answered yes. Does it matter if there are black people in this thread?
0
Options
g under p
Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,122
Are any of you here involved in this debate about BLM actually black?
Brian you already know that answer is yes, don't you.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Yep, and he was treated like the POTUS so all is cool, equality is reached and the struggle is over just like you said.
Me and my mostly white friends were constantly harassed by the police when we were young... some got arrested... some went to jail...
A black person born in 1978 had the same exact opportunities I was given... your buddy James had the same opportunities you were given... actually, they had an advantage due to affirmative action and could get into better schools with poorer performance if they chose to do so... but anyway... the example I give about Obama is a simple and factual example that there is no glass ceiling for blacks in this country anymore and no large scale institutional racism... he worked his ass off and achieved greatness...
Is the world perfect? No... are there still assholes in the world? Yes...
Is there a conspiracy to oppress, target, and kill black people like BLM would like you to believe? Absolutely 100% NOT
Let go of the white guilt and realize that the systemic institutional racism of our grandparents generation is long gone...
True story...
I witnessed a black judge ask a truant black teen "didn't he realize people died for the right for him to go to school?" The kids stoneface response, "I don't care".... so where did he learn that? Did the oppressive law enforcement system teach him that? Did "whitey" teach him that? Or do we think this young man's family fucked up along the way? If he even had an intact family, because the cases of absentee father's is RAMPANT in the black community... more young black kids live with aunts and grandparents then their fathers... his response and lack of valuing an education didn't come from anywhere but his own home...
Personal responsibility folks... if I didn't graduate high school that would have been me and my families fault, nobody elses... if I was a convicted felon, that would be my fault and nobody elses...
And if you feel strongly enough about this stuff I advise people to quit their jobs, stop working for some corporations profit, change their career, and come help out because it is very much needed in all communities... we need teachers, we need police, we need social services, we need a whole lot more that white people talking about black people being oppressed on a message board
A black person had the same chances as you if you both shared a similar upbringing. If a kid was raised in the projects, white or black, then no, he didn't have as many chances as you.
you assume where I grew up... of course everyone has different upbringings and socio economic conditions... that's just life... you don't think there are broke white people? no broken white homes? no rough white neighborhoods? my father was a drug addict in the 70's and did time in prison before I was born... raised by a single mother most of my life... we were broke... lived in a fairly rough blue collar neighborhood... older brother got involved in drugs and went to jail... I started to get into trouble, was arrested a few times, most of those old friends are all either dead or in jail now, mostly white by the way... one of them is on death row as we speak for committing a murder... go ahead and tell them about white privilege lol...
I was lucky because I had a mother who refused to back down... and I also put in the work to get my shit together and graduate high school and go to college... nobody went to class for me... nobody took a test for me...
so I don't need a lecture about upbringing and circumstance and white privilege... nobody gave me a handout because i was white... nobody cut me slack because I was white... nobody protected me just because I was white... i fought for my meals brother... nobody handed me shit or showed me any "white privilege"
It looks like you're kind of giving me a lecture using anecdotal stories to try and disprove something (a theme in this thread). You did get handouts because you were white, you got second chances, you got more trust from strangers than minorities did. You were perceived as less of a threat because you're white. You got treated differently all the time because of your race. Your single mom benefited from being white, which therefore benefited you. Referencing criminal involved family means you raised yourself above the others, and you don't want to diminish your efforts that went in to your success, but poor white people have an easier time getting out of poverty than blacks do, and that's due to white privilege. If you were black, you would have had a harder time improving your situation.
I'm not here saying there are not issues on all sides that need to be addressed...
I think my main issue is the focus on a few bad cops and tragic incidents, while i think a MUCH bigger issue is the long standing rampant crime in the black community that far too often see's young men shooting at each other and terrorizing entire neighborhoods... yes there are some bad police officers, I don't think it's as many as people like to generalize... there are also a ton of great cops who have to make high pressure decisions with lives on the line, which predictably result in some tragic mistakes... I think I saw it was approximately 100 unarmed people were killed by police last year, in a country of 300+ million I don't see this number as overly alarming... what I do find alarming is the hundreds of shootings PER DAY committed by people in this country, with a hugely disproportionate amount of those shooters and victims being black
It's a chicken or the egg problem... and I'm pretty convinced I know which one comes first here... do we not think if crime went down in a significant way in these communities that police shootings wouldn't decrease?
Are any of you here involved in this debate about BLM actually black?
Brian you already know that answer is yes, don't you.
Peace
(Yes, Jason! Fucking Steve Martin! )
Yes, of course G! But perhaps you get the gist of my question!
So to spell out the obvious, most of us here are not black or red or yellow or brown. I'm guessing most of us here (including me) have barely a clue as to what it is like to be racially profiled (and no, being Amish doesn't count, haha) . It just seems a bit peculiar to me that we (including me again) are sitting here talking like we know what this shit is about. It would be very helpful to have a better representation from others who knows what it feels like to be in those shoes.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Are any of you here involved in this debate about BLM actually black?
Brian you already know that answer is yes, don't you.
Peace
(Yes, Jason! Fucking Steve Martin! )
Yes, of course G! But perhaps you get the gist of my question!
So to spell out the obvious, most of us here are not black or red or yellow or brown. I'm guessing most of us here (including me) have barely a clue as to what it is like to be racially profiled (and no, being Amish doesn't count, haha) . It just seems a bit peculiar to me that we (including me again) are sitting here talking like we know what this shit is about. It would be very helpful to have a better representation from others who knows what it feels like to be in those shoes.
My mom used to tell people she was Italian instead of Persian because of most people's perception of those from Iran. The shit people say and do. Years ago I was interviewing someone who began disparaging Persian people, not realizing I'm half that and assuming I'd nyuk-nyuk along with them. Many other examples in my little world over time.
Not to minimize what others experience, but there's prejudice all around.
And really, I don't give a fuck what people think - it's when they act on it.
I talk to enough minorities about this to understand as much as I can without actually living it. I also get the sense from those conversations that their experiences are just as varied as our interpretation of it. Being black in rural South Carolina is culturally different than being black in South Central LA or being black in a middle class suburb of whatever metro area you want to name. From my own experiences teaching in four very different settings and working hard to understand the culture of each place, I have come to be suspicious of the terms Black America and White America. There are no such Americas that I can define with certainty at this point in my experience.
ANY group that calls for violence, incites violence, and creates chaos could be labeled a terrorist group...and yes that includes BLM
That's a pretty loose definition...BLM is an open group without membership requirements or supervision, is it not? So if individual, unofficial members call for and incite violence does that make the whole group terrorist? If you applied that same standard everywhere else, there would be thousands of terrorist groups in the US, police included.
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
ANY group that calls for violence, incites violence, and creates chaos could be labeled a terrorist group...and yes that includes BLM
That's a pretty loose definition...BLM is an open group without membership requirements or supervision, is it not? So if individual, unofficial members call for and incite violence does that make the whole group terrorist? If you applied that same standard everywhere else, there would be thousands of terrorist groups in the US, police included.
To be fair, isis is open without supervision of membership requirements as well.
But yeah, I look at BLM as more of a movement than a group. And agree with the pretext and mission statement or not, no where in it does it incite violence.
What if some crazy Bernie Sanders supporter went and shot up some wall street executives? Would we accuse Bernie of leading a terrorist movement?
People get passionate about societal issues, and sometimes people behave in a misguided and irresponsible manner when theyre angry. And those people should be held individually responsible. Doesnt mean these issues shouldnt be addressed.
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
I, personally, am more offended by people using a BLM platform to justify violence and hate towards others in society. I agree with their message, but am becoming more and more discouraged by their strategies and leadership. It is starting to seem as though the whole movement is being compromised by a few select sick fucktards with their own agenda. Would be a lot more meaningful if they denounced and stood up against the gangs, Panthers, drug dealers in their communities that are getting more black people killed than all police all over the country combined. Am I the only one that is gaining the perception that BLM is more about being anti-police than being for "justice for black people"?
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
I, personally, am more offended by people using a BLM platform to justify violence and hate towards others in society. I agree with their message, but am becoming more and more discouraged by their strategies and leadership. It is starting to seem as though the whole movement is being compromised by a few select sick fucktards with their own agenda. Would be a lot more meaningful if they denounced and stood up against the gangs, Panthers, drug dealers in their communities that are getting more black people killed than all police all over the country combined. Am I the only one that is gaining the perception that BLM is more about being anti-police than being for "justice for black people"?
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
I, personally, am more offended by people using a BLM platform to justify violence and hate towards others in society. I agree with their message, but am becoming more and more discouraged by their strategies and leadership. It is starting to seem as though the whole movement is being compromised by a few select sick fucktards with their own agenda. Would be a lot more meaningful if they denounced and stood up against the gangs, Panthers, drug dealers in their communities that are getting more black people killed than all police all over the country combined. Am I the only one that is gaining the perception that BLM is more about being anti-police than being for "justice for black people"?
There's nothing here to disagree with! Good post
You're only finally gaining that perception? It started out under the guise of the untouchable colour.
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
That's a really smart point.
No it is not at all. It should be "Lives Matter" No colour necessary. I don't see colour in people.
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
I, personally, am more offended by people using a BLM platform to justify violence and hate towards others in society. I agree with their message, but am becoming more and more discouraged by their strategies and leadership. It is starting to seem as though the whole movement is being compromised by a few select sick fucktards with their own agenda. Would be a lot more meaningful if they denounced and stood up against the gangs, Panthers, drug dealers in their communities that are getting more black people killed than all police all over the country combined. Am I the only one that is gaining the perception that BLM is more about being anti-police than being for "justice for black people"?
There's nothing here to disagree with! Good post
You're only finally gaining that perception? It started out under the guise of the untouchable colour.
That is your perception and it is very far off. Speaks volumes about your opposition to race issues.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
If "Black Lives Matter" offends you because it's not "All Lives Matter", but you are not offended by "Blue Lives Matter", the operative word there is "black" and that is shameful.
That's a really smart point.
No it is not at all. It should be "Lives Matter" No colour necessary. I don't see colour in people.
I do; it's simply part of taking someone in - an observation. Doesn't mean I think any more or less of someone because of it.
Comments
Sad part is that in 15 years of this kind of "data driven reform" targeting minorities, we have made statistically insignificant improvements in outcomes. Anecdotal report from the front lines: It's because my minority students, in general, don't give a shit about getting an education. And they come from good families, too, parents who knock them upside the head when they don't do well. But the kids themselves just don't care, they don't see the implications down the line for their future. Their peer group influence, fraught with all its cultural distractions, are more important than anything else to them at age 13. Their social media entertainment is way more interesting to them than the hard work it takes to become a good reader. So the achievement gap persists in spite of 15 years of effort systematically targeting minorities for improvement.
It's frustrating to watch, to say the least.
I wonder if it would change how others post if someone answered yes.
Does it matter if there are black people in this thread?
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Will one of you please attend one of these BLM protests and report back to us???
I think my main issue is the focus on a few bad cops and tragic incidents, while i think a MUCH bigger issue is the long standing rampant crime in the black community that far too often see's young men shooting at each other and terrorizing entire neighborhoods... yes there are some bad police officers, I don't think it's as many as people like to generalize... there are also a ton of great cops who have to make high pressure decisions with lives on the line, which predictably result in some tragic mistakes... I think I saw it was approximately 100 unarmed people were killed by police last year, in a country of 300+ million I don't see this number as overly alarming... what I do find alarming is the hundreds of shootings PER DAY committed by people in this country, with a hugely disproportionate amount of those shooters and victims being black
It's a chicken or the egg problem... and I'm pretty convinced I know which one comes first here... do we not think if crime went down in a significant way in these communities that police shootings wouldn't decrease?
Yes, of course G! But perhaps you get the gist of my question!
So to spell out the obvious, most of us here are not black or red or yellow or brown. I'm guessing most of us here (including me) have barely a clue as to what it is like to be racially profiled (and no, being Amish doesn't count, haha) . It just seems a bit peculiar to me that we (including me again) are sitting here talking like we know what this shit is about. It would be very helpful to have a better representation from others who knows what it feels like to be in those shoes.
Not to minimize what others experience, but there's prejudice all around.
And really, I don't give a fuck what people think - it's when they act on it.
(EDIT due to quoting problems.)
If you applied that same standard everywhere else, there would be thousands of terrorist groups in the US, police included.
But yeah, I look at BLM as more of a movement than a group. And agree with the pretext and mission statement or not, no where in it does it incite violence.
What if some crazy Bernie Sanders supporter went and shot up some wall street executives? Would we accuse Bernie of leading a terrorist movement?
People get passionate about societal issues, and sometimes people behave in a misguided and irresponsible manner when theyre angry. And those people should be held individually responsible. Doesnt mean these issues shouldnt be addressed.
It started out under the guise of the untouchable colour.
It should be "Lives Matter"
No colour necessary.
I don't see colour in people.