Meh it's subjective. Old mate saying there are WAY better albums out this year just means he likes he likes those albums WAY more. I don't care if there are negative opinions of FI, it's actually nice to see what they find negative about it. I will defend them for the hype though. Name one rock album other than Chinese Democracy that has had more hype/pressure on it. Maynard actually said the crippling fear was one of the reasons it took so long. Plus it's been less than three weeks. Takes me months to digest Tool albums and I love doing so.
Yes, exactly, of course it's subjective. I thought it was universally known that when someone says what they think about music it is their subjective opinion. Not to the mention the fact that I literally said "as far as I'm concerned." I sincerely don't get why people often feel the need to read what is obviously an opinion, and then make a case about how that's only an opinion and not a fact, lol. (and the haters thing... ugh, I won't even bother to comment further!)
Your only contribution to the thread was to take a shit on the new record, so I'm not sure what sort of response you expected. It's not exactly a thoughtful critique. As a comparison, there's a reason I stay out of the Wilco and Jack White threads!
I truly did not expect your response (and it wasn't my only contribution to the thread). I thought everyone here was a bit more mature than that. This is a thread for thoughts about Tool, which I offered. Apparently I didn't live up to your high expectations as a music critic, lol. Also, I didn't "take a shit" on the new record FFS (it does seem like somebody shit in your corn flakes though!). And why would I stay out of the Tool thread?? I really like Tool. I only stay out of the threads where I couldn't care less about the artist. That isn't the case for me with Tool.
Apologies on assuming you're not a Tool fan. But come on, re-read your post. And the very relevant meme is a joke.
Do you need to re-read my post? I said I was a bit disappointed, that I find the album kinda boring, but that I'm happy for the band's success with it. That is why I was so surprised by your reaction. I didn't think my post was outstandingly negative, nor that it suggested I dislike the band. It just said how I didn't really care for the album and that I am slightly taken aback by the hype around it, since I'm not picking up what everyone else is, and feel like there have been better albums this year.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Meh it's subjective. Old mate saying there are WAY better albums out this year just means he likes he likes those albums WAY more. I don't care if there are negative opinions of FI, it's actually nice to see what they find negative about it. I will defend them for the hype though. Name one rock album other than Chinese Democracy that has had more hype/pressure on it. Maynard actually said the crippling fear was one of the reasons it took so long. Plus it's been less than three weeks. Takes me months to digest Tool albums and I love doing so.
Yes, exactly, of course it's subjective. I thought it was universally known that when someone says what they think about music it is their subjective opinion. Not to the mention the fact that I literally said "as far as I'm concerned." I sincerely don't get why people often feel the need to read what is obviously an opinion, and then make a case about how that's only an opinion and not a fact, lol. (and the haters thing... ugh, I won't even bother to comment further!)
Your only contribution to the thread was to take a shit on the new record, so I'm not sure what sort of response you expected. It's not exactly a thoughtful critique. As a comparison, there's a reason I stay out of the Wilco and Jack White threads!
I truly did not expect your response (and it wasn't my only contribution to the thread). I thought everyone here was a bit more mature than that. This is a thread for thoughts about Tool, which I offered. Apparently I didn't live up to your high expectations as a music critic, lol. Also, I didn't "take a shit" on the new record FFS (it does seem like somebody shit in your corn flakes though!). And why would I stay out of the Tool thread?? I really like Tool. I only stay out of the threads where I couldn't care less about the artist. That isn't the case for me with Tool.
Apologies on assuming you're not a Tool fan. But come on, re-read your post. And the very relevant meme is a joke.
Do you need to re-read my post? I said I was a bit disappointed, that I find the album kinda boring, but that I'm happy for the band's success with it. That is why I was so surprised by your reaction. I didn't think my post was outstandingly negative, nor that it suggested I dislike the band. It just said how I didn't really care for the album and that I am slightly taken aback by the hype around it, since I'm not picking up what everyone else is, and feel like there have been better albums this year.
from what I can see, you responded to post that may not have even been responding to you or had anything to do with your post, with a pretty harsh tone. Not sure, but you seemed to take it that the post was a dig at you, went into a small rant to a person that actually said he enjoys reading what others find negative about it to get a different perspective, and they never even brought up or suggested that your opinion was a fact. I can't see where anyone did that.
...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
After a number of times through the new album, I feel like this is the album Tool needed to make. Culling Voices and Descending are the standouts for me.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
After a number of times through the new album, I feel like this is the album Tool needed to make. Culling Voices and Descending are the standouts for me.
I'm pretty obsessed with the entire catalogue at the moment and this album sits into the catalogue really well. I'm totally hooked on Pneuma and Descending. Culling Voices, Fear Inoculum and 7empest also amazing. Not really digging Invincible so much.
"...though my problems are meaningless....that don't make them go away...."
After a number of times through the new album, I feel like this is the album Tool needed to make. Culling Voices and Descending are the standouts for me.
I'm pretty obsessed with the entire catalogue at the moment and this album sits into the catalogue really well. I'm totally hooked on Pneuma and Descending. Culling Voices, Fear Inoculum and 7empest also amazing. Not really digging Invincible so much.
I'm right there with you. Been revisiting the other albums and I've rediscovered the elements that made me love them.
When 10K Days came out, I wasn't really into it at first. It took a while to grow on me. After a while, something clicked and I was fully on board with the direction they were taking.
I found myself really loving the long songs and interludes that blended the whole album into one cohesive piece of music.
Lateralus, 10,000 Days and Fear Inoculum are all similar in that aspect.
This is a band that will be studied and celebrated for decades to come, and they deserve to be. No one does what they do. Their use of odd time and polyrhythms alone are spectacular. Add timeless lyrical content and tonal qualities that are like Heroin for the ears, mind and soul and you have perhaps the greatest studio band of a generation.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
It's wicked to me that people are really digging different songs off the new album. Again liking art/music is all subjective but to me it smacks of consistency across the whole album. I'm finding it hard to get into Descending and Culling Voices but am stoked so many people have them as album favourites. Will inspire me to keep digging (no pun intended) for more tidbits and concentrate on the bits those people love and hey a few more listens down the track and I might love those songs as much as those people who fell for them earlier. Plus we've got some concerts to attend that may just help us fall in love with those songs even more.
Stars are suns to other people.
Wellington 1998 London 2007 Brisbane 2009 Stockholm 2012
Amsterdam 1 & 2 2014 EV Dublin 2017 Milan 2018 Padova 2018 Boston 2 2018
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
They're doing this because someone shared the link for what should have been a fanclub only presale and non members were able to buy tickets. They've since canceled those orders and are making them available to actual Tool Army members, which was for whom they were originally intended. They are literally doing this for their dues paying members, if they didn't give a shit they wouldn't be doing anything.
Where's the problem?
Are you complaining on behalf of the people who bought VIP tickets they were never supposed to have access to in the first place?
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
They're doing this because someone shared the link for what should have been a fanclub only presale and non members were able to buy tickets. They've since canceled those orders and are making them available to actual Tool Army members, which was for whom they were originally intended. They are literally doing this for their dues paying members, if they didn't give a shit they wouldn't be doing anything.
Where's the problem?
Are you complaining on behalf of the people who bought VIP tickets they were never supposed to have access to in the first place?
Also, fuck ticketmaster.
Agreed on all counts. Especially the last part.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
They're doing this because someone shared the link for what should have been a fanclub only presale and non members were able to buy tickets. They've since canceled those orders and are making them available to actual Tool Army members, which was for whom they were originally intended. They are literally doing this for their dues paying members, if they didn't give a shit they wouldn't be doing anything.
Where's the problem?
Are you complaining on behalf of the people who bought VIP tickets they were never supposed to have access to in the first place?
Also, fuck ticketmaster.
Check out the tool reddit. There are questions from every angle, from TA members who used the correct link who now are nervous they may be canceled.
Other members bought using the bad link because the normal link did not work. Is it the link also getting voided, because the bands messaging states they are concerned about non members with tickets.
"We will be canceling the orders placed by non members" and they are as well canceling some based on the link used.
It wasnt even clear that VIP tix was a TA exclusive til the evening before the presale. Many members were upset bc they bought in looking for regular ticket presale that never happened nor was the specific presale info available in advance until the last minute. Damn just go with the big bad company that knows how to do this stuff.
Fenway box seats lost in the purchase cart.
No notification obstructed view tickets.
Bands voiding VIP tickets sold to members because their website screwed up.
Bands just give it up already. In my nearly 4 decades buying concert tickets I've never had issues like these with TM.
BTW the Tool VIP fees were $67 and Fenway had solid fees for home and away as well. But TM is the industry punching bag so...Go.
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
They're doing this because someone shared the link for what should have been a fanclub only presale and non members were able to buy tickets. They've since canceled those orders and are making them available to actual Tool Army members, which was for whom they were originally intended. They are literally doing this for their dues paying members, if they didn't give a shit they wouldn't be doing anything.
Where's the problem?
Are you complaining on behalf of the people who bought VIP tickets they were never supposed to have access to in the first place?
Also, fuck ticketmaster.
Check out the tool reddit. There are questions from every angle, from TA members who used the correct link who now are nervous they may be canceled.
Other members bought using the bad link because the normal link did not work. Is it the link also getting voided, because the bands messaging states they are concerned about non members with tickets.
"We will be canceling the orders placed by non members" and they are as well canceling some based on the link used.
It wasnt even clear that VIP tix was a TA exclusive til the evening before the presale. Many members were upset bc they bought in looking for regular ticket presale that never happened nor was the specific presale info available in advance until the last minute. Damn just go with the big bad company that knows how to do this stuff.
Fenway box seats lost in the purchase cart.
No notification obstructed view tickets.
Bands voiding VIP tickets sold to members because their website screwed up.
Bands just give it up already. In my nearly 4 decades buying concert tickets I've never had issues like these with TM.
BTW the Tool VIP fees were $67 and Fenway had solid fees for home and away as well. But TM is the industry punching bag so...Go.
Yeah, I agree with a lot of this. Even competitors like AXS who have popped up soak you on fees, too. Hell, I've even been porked on eventbrite. Local gigs on brown paper tickets aren't bad, though!
I sorta get it from Tool's perspective, although they were super vague on details until the day before. The email is worded in a way that makes it sound like they can cross-reference purchases vs TA membership. Just using the link would be a disaster. Hopefully no one who bought legit gets screwed.
TA members who used the correct link can contact the VIP email and make sure their purchase is secure and can also check their credit card statements, they don’t have to hang out on Reddit acting like victims.
Tool Army is also giving members whose orders were flagged to be canceled a deadline of this afternoon to contact them & confirm their membership. It’s not like orders are getting canceled with no recourse for members in good standing.
I could rebut some of your other points @Lerxst1992, but it sounds like you’re really just upset about your obstructed view seats from over a year ago which is understandable, but also has nothing to do with Tool.
For what it’s worth I would also be pissed if I got stuck w obstructed view and / or had box seats disappear from my cart... I understand the frustration, but even then, I think I would still appreciate the chance at a 10c lottery seat over the stress of having to go through the public onsale - or maybe I would just quit the fanclub, idk.
People complained that the Tool Army VIP sale was made public which wasn’t their fault to begin with. Now Tool is taking steps to correct this, and people are still complaining. I don’t get it.
One thing I can refute with certainty is the Tool VIP fees, they were $19.04 for two venues at least, so you may want to double check your source on the $67 fees.
TA members who used the correct link can contact the VIP email and make sure their purchase is secure and can also check their credit card statements, they don’t have to hang out on Reddit acting like victims.
Tool Army is also giving members whose orders were flagged to be canceled a deadline of this afternoon to contact them & confirm their membership. It’s not like orders are getting canceled with no recourse for members in good standing.
I could rebut some of your other points @Lerxst1992, but it sounds like you’re really just upset about your obstructed view seats from over a year ago which is understandable, but also has nothing to do with Tool.
For what it’s worth I would also be pissed if I got stuck w obstructed view and / or had box seats disappear from my cart... I understand the frustration, but even then, I think I would still appreciate the chance at a 10c lottery seat over the stress of having to go through the public onsale - or maybe I would just quit the fanclub, idk.
People complained that the Tool Army VIP sale was made public which wasn’t their fault to begin with. Now Tool is taking steps to correct this, and people are still complaining. I don’t get it.
One thing I can refute with certainty is the Tool VIP fees, they were $19.04 for two venues at least, so you may want to double check your source on the $67 fees.
I'm frustrated about Fenway last year but not upset. Great crowd great sound. Lucky no wind.
Many from TA claimed to have paid $567 for the VIP package. Since their presale announcements were vague I did not join so I cant confirm. This is a time fans should be celebrating they scored VIP and get to listen to FI, and instead...I'll just refer to what's been said on reddit.
I get that this is the cauldron of hate against TM. I was pointing out the worst ticket buying experiences I've had and (aware of) what others had is when artists circumvent TM.
TM just the broker. When Live Nation bought them it could be argued then they were part bad because they are also the promoter now.
I think alot of fans get the promoter fronts a big fee to the artist then "secretly" distributes tickets to scalpers to be sold at a higher price. This is all done to make bands look cool w lower prices while financing expensive tours and earning a payday.
I've always guessed it was this insincerity of the system that pissed Ed off back in the day, the secrecy of the system. Because a $20 fee so I could buy tickets in my home town instead of commuting further to the venue to buy seemed reasonable. So f^ck Live Nation I guess, not TM
Continuing to enjoy the album more and more with each listen. Will take a break from it soon, been spinning it hard for the past month, but I love it. Amazing record and fits into their discography beautifully. The drumming is off the charts good.
"...though my problems are meaningless....that don't make them go away...."
I love Danny, he's the best drummer on the planet for me, but I'm actually more captivated by Adam on this one at present. His tone may be a big reason though. To me there aren't as many bits that say jump out at me as they do in other albums (I may have mentioned the bridge in Rosetta Stoned, the polyrhythm in Eulogy, the end of The Grudge as examples). I do love the polyrhythm in Tempest where his feet cover Adam's fast palm muted riffing, and I saw a drum cover of Pneuma that drew more attention to Danny's parts, but want to know the specific drum bits that the other huge Danny fans on here were really grabbed by.
Stars are suns to other people.
Wellington 1998 London 2007 Brisbane 2009 Stockholm 2012
Amsterdam 1 & 2 2014 EV Dublin 2017 Milan 2018 Padova 2018 Boston 2 2018
I love Danny, he's the best drummer on the planet for me, but I'm actually more captivated by Adam on this one at present. His tone may be a big reason though. To me there aren't as many bits that say jump out at me as they do in other albums (I may have mentioned the bridge in Rosetta Stoned, the polyrhythm in Eulogy, the end of The Grudge as examples). I do love the polyrhythm in Tempest where his feet cover Adam's fast palm muted riffing, and I saw a drum cover of Pneuma that drew more attention to Danny's parts, but want to know the specific drum bits that the other huge Danny fans on here were really grabbed by.
No Danny parts JUMP out at me. The production to capture the sound of his finely tuned kit has been a pleasure to listen to so far though.
Continuing to enjoy the album more and more with each listen. Will take a break from it soon, been spinning it hard for the past month, but I love it. Amazing record and fits into their discography beautifully. The drumming is off the charts good.
I've not listened to it in a week after listening to it every single day since release. Might resume today. I want to see how it holds up after a break in listening.
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Continuing to enjoy the album more and more with each listen. Will take a break from it soon, been spinning it hard for the past month, but I love it. Amazing record and fits into their discography beautifully. The drumming is off the charts good.
I've not listened to it in a week after listening to it every single day since release. Might resume today. I want to see how it holds up after a break in listening.
I gave it a break for a week or so. Was out in the garden yesterday and managed a listen from start to finish which I’ve rarely been able to do since it came out. I found myself enjoying it and recognising certain parts of songs / lyrics etc...so its definitely sinking in now.
Comments
When 10K Days came out, I wasn't really into it at first. It took a while to grow on me. After a while, something clicked and I was fully on board with the direction they were taking.
I found myself really loving the long songs and interludes that blended the whole album into one cohesive piece of music.
Lateralus, 10,000 Days and Fear Inoculum are all similar in that aspect.
This is a band that will be studied and celebrated for decades to come, and they deserve to be. No one does what they do. Their use of odd time and polyrhythms alone are spectacular. Add timeless lyrical content and tonal qualities that are like Heroin for the ears, mind and soul and you have perhaps the greatest studio band of a generation.
Wellington 1998
London 2007
Brisbane 2009
Stockholm 2012
EV Dublin 2017
Milan 2018
Padova 2018
Boston 2 2018
Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.
I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
The worst crap is when bands decide it's better to circumvent Ticketmaster.
Tool did this now and screwed over fans serious enough to fork over $567 for a ticket.
Reminds me of the 2018 PJ Fenway onsale when alot of us had decent tickets in our cart but MLB's ticket system wouldn't finalize the sale. (As well as the 10c obstructed view no notice ticket sale).
Let's not make rocket science out of this. Just sell tickets thru Ticketmaster.
They're doing this because someone shared the link for what should have been a fanclub only presale and non members were able to buy tickets. They've since canceled those orders and are making them available to actual Tool Army members, which was for whom they were originally intended. They are literally doing this for their dues paying members, if they didn't give a shit they wouldn't be doing anything.
Where's the problem?
Are you complaining on behalf of the people who bought VIP tickets they were never supposed to have access to in the first place?
Also, fuck ticketmaster.
I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with what they're doing in regards to the VIP tickets here.
He really is. His drumking takes a step back from the last 2 albums, but I think he drives the synth stuff as well.
Check out the tool reddit. There are questions from every angle, from TA members who used the correct link who now are nervous they may be canceled.
Other members bought using the bad link because the normal link did not work. Is it the link also getting voided, because the bands messaging states they are concerned about non members with tickets.
"We will be canceling the orders placed by non members" and they are as well canceling some based on the link used.
It wasnt even clear that VIP tix was a TA exclusive til the evening before the presale. Many members were upset bc they bought in looking for regular ticket presale that never happened nor was the specific presale info available in advance until the last minute. Damn just go with the big bad company that knows how to do this stuff.
Fenway box seats lost in the purchase cart.
No notification obstructed view tickets.
Bands voiding VIP tickets sold to members because their website screwed up.
Bands just give it up already. In my nearly 4 decades buying concert tickets I've never had issues like these with TM.
BTW the Tool VIP fees were $67 and Fenway had solid fees for home and away as well. But TM is the industry punching bag so...Go.
I sorta get it from Tool's perspective, although they were super vague on details until the day before. The email is worded in a way that makes it sound like they can cross-reference purchases vs TA membership. Just using the link would be a disaster. Hopefully no one who bought legit gets screwed.
TA members who used the correct link can contact the VIP email and make sure their purchase is secure and can also check their credit card statements, they don’t have to hang out on Reddit acting like victims.
Tool Army is also giving members whose orders were flagged to be canceled a deadline of this afternoon to contact them & confirm their membership. It’s not like orders are getting canceled with no recourse for members in good standing.
I could rebut some of your other points @Lerxst1992, but it sounds like you’re really just upset about your obstructed view seats from over a year ago which is understandable, but also has nothing to do with Tool.
For what it’s worth I would also be pissed if I got stuck w obstructed view and / or had box seats disappear from my cart... I understand the frustration, but even then, I think I would still appreciate the chance at a 10c lottery seat over the stress of having to go through the public onsale - or maybe I would just quit the fanclub, idk.
People complained that the Tool Army VIP sale was made public which wasn’t their fault to begin with. Now Tool is taking steps to correct this, and people are still complaining. I don’t get it.
One thing I can refute with certainty is the Tool VIP fees, they were $19.04 for two venues at least, so you may want to double check your source on the $67 fees.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Many from TA claimed to have paid $567 for the VIP package. Since their presale announcements were vague I did not join so I cant confirm. This is a time fans should be celebrating they scored VIP and get to listen to FI, and instead...I'll just refer to what's been said on reddit.
I get that this is the cauldron of hate against TM. I was pointing out the worst ticket buying experiences I've had and (aware of) what others had is when artists circumvent TM.
TM just the broker. When Live Nation bought them it could be argued then they were part bad because they are also the promoter now.
I think alot of fans get the promoter fronts a big fee to the artist then "secretly" distributes tickets to scalpers to be sold at a higher price. This is all done to make bands look cool w lower prices while financing expensive tours and earning a payday.
I've always guessed it was this insincerity of the system that pissed Ed off back in the day, the secrecy of the system. Because a $20 fee so I could buy tickets in my home town instead of commuting further to the venue to buy seemed reasonable. So f^ck Live Nation I guess, not TM
Wellington 1998
London 2007
Brisbane 2009
Stockholm 2012
EV Dublin 2017
Milan 2018
Padova 2018
Boston 2 2018
I want to see how it holds up after a break in listening.
Melbourne #2 '03
Melbourne #3 '03
Melbourne #1 '06
Melbourne #3 '06
Melbourne '09
Melbourne '14