Fort McMurray Alberta

lukin2006

even flow - question mark said:

I must say that I do feel for the people who had to flee. BUT.......Why the hell would you wait until a fire that size is on your doorstep before you decide it is time to evacuate? The videos are only so shocking, because the fire was so close, because you waited. I don't know about everybody else, but if a fire the size of a small city was off in the distance and moving, rapidly towards my house, I may have been out of there in a heartbeat.

Why? Because it appears the folks of Fort Mac listened to officials ... And since there were 2 fatalities (motor vehicle accident) out of 80000 plus people's, I would say everything went as well as could be expected ... The people of Fort Mac can be proud, it appears many people were looking out for each other and I didn't hear of any me first mentality that can often happen in these emergencies. As well this country can be proud of it citizens who stepped up and donated big time ... And most importantly Canada dealt with this crisis internally.

brianlux

It is amazing how well the evacuation went, especially as there could have been fewer fatalities but I am surprised the resident weren't told to leave sooner. We are in a very fire prone area and when fire strikes, evacuations occur quickly because wildfire is known to spread quickly. In any case, the videos show the Fort Mac people driving orderly. It would have been more chaotic in some places.

lukin2006

brianlux said:

It is amazing how well the evacuation went, especially as there could have been fewer fatalities but I am surprised the resident weren't told to leave sooner. We are in a very fire prone area and when fire strikes, evacuations occur quickly because wildfire is known to spread quickly. In any case, the videos show the Fort Mac people driving orderly. It would have been more chaotic in some places.

I've never been to Fort Mac myself ... but I'm guessing what may have helped is that the vast majority of people who go to Fort Mac is for work ... so these said people are used to hustling ... so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that when told to hustle and get out they did.

Our national news has reported today that some people's did actually stay and ride out the fire and town by-law officers and the RCMP are not asking them to leave.

It also sounds like Fort Mac lost 1600 structures but far more than that was saved ... it could have been far worse.

PJ_Soul

The fire simplyvspread that fast and that unpredictably. People just didn't have time to act faster.

So... Still no one allowed back into town, and it could be weeks still (hopefully not).
Just saw that some kind of virus is rampaging through the evacuee centres. fever and vomiting and diarrhea... in a fucking evacuee centre. Ugh. Just when you think things can't get worse...
Finally, the fire/evacuations have reduced the tar sands production by 1,000,000 barrels a days, which is supposedly 0.5% of the GDP. And of course thousands who aren't working/earning. I am no fan of the tar sands, but sudden impacts like that to the economy can be damaging.
But on a positive note, there are already job fairs around the province hiring workers to rebuild the city, and hundreds and hundreds of the unemployed are showing up and finding both skilled and unskilled jobs. So that's something i guess.

brianlux

^^^ Viral gastroenteritis- to have that outside the comforts of home, major bummer. Double good thoughts/best wishes of Albertan fire victims.

I won't go into the tar sands issue here but undoubtedly it will be discussed elsewhere.

Degeneratefk

Any word on how this started?

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

^^^ Viral gastroenteritis- to have that outside the comforts of home, major bummer. Double good thoughts/best wishes of Albertan fire victims.

I won't go into the tar sands issue here but undoubtedly it will be discussed elsewhere.

I will , only as far to inquire if there is or was ever any danger of this fire reaching storage tanks, loading racks, loaded rail cars, pumping stations in the region.
That Bakken crude is volatile stuff. Oil Sands on their own are stable but too thick to pump. much lighter oil is blended with it to improve viscosity prior to refinement. This blend is said to rival bakkan crude in explosive volatility.

lukin2006

Fort McMurray wildfire likely caused by humans: U of A professor

http://globalnews.ca/news/2684741/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-likely-caused-by-humans/

And I doubt the oil sands are going anywhere ... It's a huge part of the Alberta economy and when oil prices rise again Fort Mac will ramp up production again.

Maybe some of you US folks that are so worried about out oil sands should concentrate on the fracking going on in your country ... Just sayin'

polaris_x

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

mickeyrat

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

in the US many locales use their budget up early in the season as fires have gotten more intense and larger. using dollars meant for preventive measures in the fighting of actual fires. compounds the problem. more ready fuel, not enough money, and some folks building in more remote wilderness locations. which means focus has to go to those locations as a life safety measure.

I'd be good with saying those folks are on their own. you know the risk going in.

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

Fort McMurray wildfire likely caused by humans: U of A professor

http://globalnews.ca/news/2684741/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-likely-caused-by-humans/

And I doubt the oil sands are going anywhere ... It's a huge part of the Alberta economy and when oil prices rise again Fort Mac will ramp up production again.

Maybe some of you US folks that are so worried about out oil sands should concentrate on the fracking going on in your country ... Just sayin'

Come on Lukin, do we really need to do this here? Sounds a little bit bating.

lukin2006

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

Fort McMurray wildfire likely caused by humans: U of A professor

http://globalnews.ca/news/2684741/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-likely-caused-by-humans/

And I doubt the oil sands are going anywhere ... It's a huge part of the Alberta economy and when oil prices rise again Fort Mac will ramp up production again.

Maybe some of you US folks that are so worried about out oil sands should concentrate on the fracking going on in your country ... Just sayin'

Come on Lukin, do we really need to do this here? Sounds a little bit bating.

Not baiting at all. I never intended for this to ever get political ... Just a place to express our thoughts toward people's who have had their lives turned upside down. just pointing out that your country environmental record is nothing to write home about...

lukin2006

mickeyrat said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

in the US many locales use their budget up early in the season as fires have gotten more intense and larger. using dollars meant for preventive measures in the fighting of actual fires. compounds the problem. more ready fuel, not enough money, and some folks building in more remote wilderness locations. which means focus has to go to those locations as a life safety measure.

I'd be good with saying those folks are on their own. you know the risk going in.

You have an excellent point .... Urban sprawl can be problematic

mickeyrat

lukin2006 said:

mickeyrat said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

in the US many locales use their budget up early in the season as fires have gotten more intense and larger. using dollars meant for preventive measures in the fighting of actual fires. compounds the problem. more ready fuel, not enough money, and some folks building in more remote wilderness locations. which means focus has to go to those locations as a life safety measure.

I'd be good with saying those folks are on their own. you know the risk going in.

You have an excellent point .... Urban sprawl can be problematic

am curious. to what extent was forest management funding cut under your previous government? if at all?

we see cuts here which hampers the efforts to alleviate the factors that are part of the problems that are sure to come. like controlled burns, fire prevention and mitagation etc.

seems to me the ft mac fire has elements of that? excessive fuel and dry or drought conditions couple with unusually warm or hot temps right now?

lukin2006

mickeyrat said:

lukin2006 said:

mickeyrat said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

in the US many locales use their budget up early in the season as fires have gotten more intense and larger. using dollars meant for preventive measures in the fighting of actual fires. compounds the problem. more ready fuel, not enough money, and some folks building in more remote wilderness locations. which means focus has to go to those locations as a life safety measure.

I'd be good with saying those folks are on their own. you know the risk going in.

You have an excellent point .... Urban sprawl can be problematic

am curious. to what extent was forest management funding cut under your previous government? if at all?

we see cuts here which hampers the efforts to alleviate the factors that are part of the problems that are sure to come. like controlled burns, fire prevention and mitagation etc.

seems to me the ft mac fire has elements of that? excessive fuel and dry or drought conditions couple with unusually warm or hot temps right now?

Your last paragraph pretty much sums up what a lot of experts are claiming contributed to it getting out of control.

Not sure how each province budgets for forest fires ... Likely different amount per province.

mickeyrat

lukin2006 said:

mickeyrat said:

lukin2006 said:

mickeyrat said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

in the US many locales use their budget up early in the season as fires have gotten more intense and larger. using dollars meant for preventive measures in the fighting of actual fires. compounds the problem. more ready fuel, not enough money, and some folks building in more remote wilderness locations. which means focus has to go to those locations as a life safety measure.

I'd be good with saying those folks are on their own. you know the risk going in.

You have an excellent point .... Urban sprawl can be problematic

am curious. to what extent was forest management funding cut under your previous government? if at all?

we see cuts here which hampers the efforts to alleviate the factors that are part of the problems that are sure to come. like controlled burns, fire prevention and mitagation etc.

seems to me the ft mac fire has elements of that? excessive fuel and dry or drought conditions couple with unusually warm or hot temps right now?

Your last paragraph pretty much sums up what a lot of experts are claiming contributed to it getting out of control.

Not sure how each province budgets for forest fires ... Likely different amount per province.

oh so something like that isnt a centralized thing?

Degeneratefk

I don't know how it's done in Canada, but dosent the forestry service back burn high risk area? I know they do in the states. It obviously doesn't prevent all fires, but it does help.

lukin2006

mickeyrat said:

lukin2006 said:

mickeyrat said:

lukin2006 said:

mickeyrat said:

polaris_x said:

Degeneratefk said:

Any word on how this started?

how it starts can be a multitude of ways but it's intensity and range can be tied to fire suppression policies and global warming ...

in the US many locales use their budget up early in the season as fires have gotten more intense and larger. using dollars meant for preventive measures in the fighting of actual fires. compounds the problem. more ready fuel, not enough money, and some folks building in more remote wilderness locations. which means focus has to go to those locations as a life safety measure.

I'd be good with saying those folks are on their own. you know the risk going in.

You have an excellent point .... Urban sprawl can be problematic

am curious. to what extent was forest management funding cut under your previous government? if at all?

we see cuts here which hampers the efforts to alleviate the factors that are part of the problems that are sure to come. like controlled burns, fire prevention and mitagation etc.

seems to me the ft mac fire has elements of that? excessive fuel and dry or drought conditions couple with unusually warm or hot temps right now?

Your last paragraph pretty much sums up what a lot of experts are claiming contributed to it getting out of control.

Not sure how each province budgets for forest fires ... Likely different amount per province.

oh so something like that isnt a centralized thing?

The federal government contributes on a case by case basis .... As far I know. They are matching Red Cross donations, have provided some use of military personnel and equipment.

A good chunk of Fort Mac will likely be covered by insurance ... The government and the Red Cross have been focusing on the immediate needs of 80000 people left homeless ...

brianlux

lukin2006 said:

brianlux said:

lukin2006 said:

Fort McMurray wildfire likely caused by humans: U of A professor

http://globalnews.ca/news/2684741/fort-mcmurray-wildfire-likely-caused-by-humans/

And I doubt the oil sands are going anywhere ... It's a huge part of the Alberta economy and when oil prices rise again Fort Mac will ramp up production again.

Maybe some of you US folks that are so worried about out oil sands should concentrate on the fracking going on in your country ... Just sayin'

Come on Lukin, do we really need to do this here? Sounds a little bit bating.

Not baiting at all. I never intended for this to ever get political ... Just a place to express our thoughts toward people's who have had their lives turned upside down. just pointing out that your country environmental record is nothing to write home about...

WTF does that have to do with this thread and if you're not bating, why bring it up?

This thread was supposed to be about the Fort Mac fire and up to a point everyone had expressed concern and showed empathy for those who live there. Too bad that didn't work for you, Lukin. I'm surprised. This doesn't sound like you.

Sometimes this train just sucks coal dust. I'm done here.

Good thoughts still going out for the victims of the Fort Mac fire.

PJfanwillneverleave1

It was a nice shout out at the Quebec, Ottawa shows when Fort McMurray was mentioned.
EV stays in tune every city.