Question for Hillary Clinton supporters.

Free

What everyone fails to see clearly, and it's because the media wants the public to think otherwise, is that the Democrat race is very close, unlike the republican race with Cruz finally stepping out.

But everyone can go back to thinking Sanders should step out even though this race is far from over. Because "the media says so".

what dreams

Free said:

What everyone fails to see clearly, and it's because the media wants the public to think otherwise, is that the Democrat race is very close, unlike the republican race with Cruz finally stepping out.

But everyone can go back to thinking Sanders should step out even though this race is far from over. Because "the media says so".

I don't think I've ever said he should drop out. Yes, it's close. It's been an interesting race. I don't think anything I think because the media says so. I get practically all my information from primary sources. I understand what I do about the count from Sanders's own speeches.

Jearlpam0925

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

brianlux

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

Free

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

brianlux

Free said:

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

LOL! Best user name ever!

Free

Ha ha!

Wma31394

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

I don't think he will be annihilated like you say..I think he has a shot to win actually. He obviously has a great team that gets his message out. It may be wack in some regards but effective. It's remarkable what he has done thus far. Lots of people can't stand Hillary. A true Bernie supporter would vote for the Donald before her right? I supported..I mean voted for Hillary (I don't give money to politicians)

Who Princess

Campaign finance reform would help, though it's not going to happen. Right now, the candidate who spends the most has the greatest advantage. They might not always be the winner but they usually are. So yeah, vote your conscience, but prepare to be disappointed.

brianlux

Wma31394 said:

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

I don't think he will be annihilated like you say..I think he has a shot to win actually. He obviously has a great team that gets his message out. It may be wack in some regards but effective. It's remarkable what he has done thus far. Lots of people can't stand Hillary. A true Bernie supporter would vote for the Donald before her right? I supported..I mean voted for Hillary (I don't give money to politicians)

Well, I really have not counted Bernie out yet so I'm not putting the cart before the horse but if it comes down to Trump vs Hillary and for some odd reason it looks like Trump might have a chance (though I sincerely don't see that happening) I might consider voting for Hi... Hil... well, shoot, I can't even say it so I dunno...

Jearlpam0925

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

Ah, yes, koombaya and all that jazz. Unfortunately, this is not the world we live in.

To think this election won't be close is naive. Annihilated is definitely missing the mark. Wasting your vote on someone who does not have a legitimate shot is the exact same mistake as 2000. I guess it's true - we are destined to keep repeating dumb decisions over and over.

brianlux

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

Ah, yes, koombaya and all that jazz. Unfortunately, this is not the world we live in.

To think this election won't be close is naive. Annihilated is definitely missing the mark. Wasting your vote on someone who does not have a legitimate shot is the exact same mistake as 2000. I guess it's true - we are destined to keep repeating dumb decisions over and over.

Oh boy, here we go with the "koobaya" nonsense again. You must get the impression I wear flowers in my hair or something. Hardly. Sorry and no personal offense since I don't know you well, but I really get tired of these lame and false accusations. And please don't tell me I'm wasting my vote unless you support the idea of totalitarianism. My vote is MINE and I retain the right to use it any way I damn well please.

Free

The attempted ridicule just says more about the person ridiculing, Brian. Don't waste time responding to it.

what dreams

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

Pretty much every election I vote for whom I think is most qualified. The funny thing about Hillary for me is that both times she's run for president, I voted for the other candidate in the primary. It wasn't because I didn't think she's a qualified candidate. It's because I studied all my options and found other people qualified in different ways. But it was never an easy decision for me because I am all over the map in my views on issues, and I had conflicts with both Obama and Sanders as well. There has never been a perfect candidate for me in all the years I've voted, so my embracing HRC as an imperfect candidate is not unusual for me. I'm certainly not an example of being "manipulated . . . in a controlled society."

Just my view. Not everybody is me. I know a lot of people do say they pick the best of two evils. I try to assume positive intentions in people.

brianlux

what dreams said:

brianlux said:

Jearlpam0925 said:

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

I guess people didn't learn from 2000. Sorry not to be flippant, but this is not sound logic.

2000 was a super close election. That won't be the case this year. Trump will be annihilated no matter who he faces.

And until we free our minds to vote for whom we think is most qualified, we will continue to allow ourselves to be a manipulated people in a controlled society. It's like the woman who won't leave an abusive husband because it is what she is used to or hopes the abuser will change on their own and thus allows that abuser to carry on indefinitely.

Free yourselves!

Pretty much every election I vote for whom I think is most qualified. The funny thing about Hillary for me is that both times she's run for president, I voted for the other candidate in the primary. It wasn't because I didn't think she's a qualified candidate. It's because I studied all my options and found other people qualified in different ways. But it was never an easy decision for me because I am all over the map in my views on issues, and I had conflicts with both Obama and Sanders as well. There has never been a perfect candidate for me in all the years I've voted, so my embracing HRC as an imperfect candidate is not unusual for me. I'm certainly not an example of being "manipulated . . . in a controlled society."

Just my view. Not everybody is me. I know a lot of people do say they pick the best of two evils. I try to assume positive intentions in people.

Sadly, there are not only no perfect candidates, there are rarely half-perfect candidates. I think that's the nature of politics.

I think the media and politics of the industrial military complex that is our society manipulates all of us to some degree or at least does its damnedest to do so. It's very difficult to not be controlled to some extent. I believe I am, but I fight against it and because my perception of HRC is that she is closed tied to that industrial military complex, I cannot support her. I'm only suggesting it might be worth attempting to become a more free nation of people.

Free

I'll tell you why I will not vote for Hillary and why I think people think she's the best candidate.

People want to vote for her because she's "safe". change is a bitch for some people. And in attempting to keep everything "the same", they see Hillary. The same pro-war agenda, the same bailing out big banks, the same dirty foreign-policy. The same Israel is our savior garbage. The same companies jumping ship and sending work - OUR work - to cheap labor countries. ( this could get change that Republicans prevent that from happening). This directly impacts our economy. The same "rich get richer" and "poor get poorer". It must be nice to be so comfortable that you don't have to worry about poverty, shrinking middle class, and those who are affected by job loss.

The same mainstream media telling us lies every day, but we're asleep at the wheel so who cares? When things are the same as usual, we live our lives half asleep. The same conveniency. Because it's not convenient to deal with change even when it's good change. The same establishment. The very establishment that caters to the rich. Establishment that caters to corporations over human beings. Establishment allowing special interest lobbyists to control where our money goes, the Establishment allowing the NRA to be as powerful as they are, establishment allowing universities to charge too much money for tuition and then establishment charging outrageous interest on students loans. Establishment that allows a woman to take no maternity leave, the only country in the world besides New Guinea. Establishment seriously dragging about impending climate change because they are in bed with the fossil fuel industry.

Shall I go on because I can go on forever.

Status quo and conformity are two words that really mean that we are asleep at the wheel. Do we really live our lives, live with passion and meaning when we are asleep at the wheel? Or should we demand more, better.

It's a very individual decision. Make yours carefully, and never ever ASSUME. When we assume we settle. And settling is never good.

gimmesometruth27

brianlux said:

At the outset let me say this: I'm creating this thread with the intent to ask an honest question, NOT to bate or troll any Clinton supporters.

So here's my question followed by my own observations:

What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?

I'm especially interested from hearing from Democrats who support Hillary for a number of reasons, mainly that, assuming you are a typical Democrat, it surprises me that you would do so and I say this because it seems to me Hillary is not a very typical Democrat.

-Most Democrats are in favor of a military based more on defense than aggression and offense and yet Hillary has proven herself to be a pro-war politician (she voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution giving President Bush authority to engage in the war with Iraq). Hillary is seen by many as being more of an interventionist than President Obama has been. Her foreign policy has been described as “neocon” by other neoconservatives.

-Most Democrats are concerned for the environment. Hillary has gained much support through her ties to Monsanto. That to my way of thinking (and you all know I think about and study this subject a lot) makes her anything but an environmentalist candidate. Though it has been somewhat limited, she has shown support for fracking, is pro offshore oil drilling and basically refused to take a stand against Keystone XL. She certainly is not aggressively anti-environmental but neither is she a strong supporter of this most critical issue.

-Democrats generally are in disfavor of the stranglehold corporations have on America and yet Hillary is well know for her ties with super PAC's. She is more likely to support bail outs of corporations.

-Most Democrats lean to the left. Hillary leans to the right.

-Democrats are generally progressives. Hillary appeals more to the conservative fear of change.

So what is it about Hillary that appeals to you? I'm truly baffled by the amount of support she has received, particularly from Democrats.

i will not support her until i have to.

if supporting her means keeping trump out of the white house then i am going to vote for her. i will not give her money, i will not give money to the DCCC, i will not work for her and i will not campaign for her. she is too conservative for me. she is too pro-israel for me. she is too much of a hawk for me. she is too cozy with the big banks for me.

but she is not anti immigrant, not anti gay, not anti woman, not anti poor, does not deny climate science, is not anti choice, and she will nominate liberalish justices to the supreme court. she doesn't take any shit from anybody. she is a fighter, i will give her that. and if bernie is not going to get the nomination, i am not going to be that guy that writes him in out of protest and gives the damn white house back to the gop. fuck that.

EdsonNascimento

gimmesometruth27 said:

brianlux said:

At the outset let me say this: I'm creating this thread with the intent to ask an honest question, NOT to bate or troll any Clinton supporters.

So here's my question followed by my own observations:

What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?

I'm especially interested from hearing from Democrats who support Hillary for a number of reasons, mainly that, assuming you are a typical Democrat, it surprises me that you would do so and I say this because it seems to me Hillary is not a very typical Democrat.

-Most Democrats are in favor of a military based more on defense than aggression and offense and yet Hillary has proven herself to be a pro-war politician (she voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution giving President Bush authority to engage in the war with Iraq). Hillary is seen by many as being more of an interventionist than President Obama has been. Her foreign policy has been described as “neocon” by other neoconservatives.

-Most Democrats are concerned for the environment. Hillary has gained much support through her ties to Monsanto. That to my way of thinking (and you all know I think about and study this subject a lot) makes her anything but an environmentalist candidate. Though it has been somewhat limited, she has shown support for fracking, is pro offshore oil drilling and basically refused to take a stand against Keystone XL. She certainly is not aggressively anti-environmental but neither is she a strong supporter of this most critical issue.

-Democrats generally are in disfavor of the stranglehold corporations have on America and yet Hillary is well know for her ties with super PAC's. She is more likely to support bail outs of corporations.

-Most Democrats lean to the left. Hillary leans to the right.

-Democrats are generally progressives. Hillary appeals more to the conservative fear of change.

So what is it about Hillary that appeals to you? I'm truly baffled by the amount of support she has received, particularly from Democrats.

i will not support her until i have to.

if supporting her means keeping trump out of the white house then i am going to vote for her. i will not give her money, i will not give money to the DCCC, i will not work for her and i will not campaign for her. she is too conservative for me. she is too pro-israel for me. she is too much of a hawk for me. she is too cozy with the big banks for me.

but she is not anti immigrant, not anti gay, not anti woman, not anti poor, does not deny climate science, is not anti choice, and she will nominate liberalish justices to the supreme court. she doesn't take any shit from anybody. she is a fighter, i will give her that. and if bernie is not going to get the nomination, i am not going to be that guy that writes him in out of protest and gives the damn white house back to the gop. fuck that.

Except from her husband, of course.

Who Princess

Free said:

I'll tell you why I will not vote for Hillary and why I think people think she's the best candidate.

People want to vote for her because she's "safe". change is a bitch for some people. And in attempting to keep everything "the same", they see Hillary. The same pro-war agenda, the same bailing out big banks, the same dirty foreign-policy. The same Israel is our savior garbage. The same companies jumping ship and sending work - OUR work - to cheap labor countries. ( this could get change that Republicans prevent that from happening). This directly impacts our economy. The same "rich get richer" and "poor get poorer". It must be nice to be so comfortable that you don't have to worry about poverty, shrinking middle class, and those who are affected by job loss.

The same mainstream media telling us lies every day, but we're asleep at the wheel so who cares? When things are the same as usual, we live our lives half asleep. The same conveniency. Because it's not convenient to deal with change even when it's good change. The same establishment. The very establishment that caters to the rich. Establishment that caters to corporations over human beings. Establishment allowing special interest lobbyists to control where our money goes, the Establishment allowing the NRA to be as powerful as they are, establishment allowing universities to charge too much money for tuition and then establishment charging outrageous interest on students loans. Establishment that allows a woman to take no maternity leave, the only country in the world besides New Guinea. Establishment seriously dragging about impending climate change because they are in bed with the fossil fuel industry.

Shall I go on because I can go on forever.

Status quo and conformity are two words that really mean that we are asleep at the wheel. Do we really live our lives, live with passion and meaning when we are asleep at the wheel? Or should we demand more, better.

It's a very individual decision. Make yours carefully, and never ever ASSUME. When we assume we settle. And settling is never good.

For someone advising against assumptions, there are an awful lot of them in this post.

I'd say that absolutely none of these statements apply to me, nor to the people I know who will probably vote for Clinton. You've made some really sweeping generalizations--how would you like it if I said something like all Sanders supporters are as rigid and uncompromising as Ted Cruz? Because you've essentially said that if I vote for Clinton, I'm practically a Republican.

I said previously in this thread that I'd have preferred more options from the Democrats for this election, but I'll continue to vote for the party that has done the most for working class/middle class families. Unless we get some changes in Congress, a Democratic president won't help much but I'll consider it a positive.

I've avoided saying it because this thread is supposed to be about Hillary, but I find very little about Sanders appealing. He's brought some issues into the debate that I think are good and serve to remind the Dems where they came from and what they're supposed to stand for. But I dislike the fact that he said he'd run a positive campaign and has spent the entire time slinging mud at Clinton. Some positive campaign. I also think he's full of hot air. If he had a more productive legislative career, I'd probably take him more seriously, but he seems mainly interested in being the spanner in the works.

Free

ok, point out the assumptions and back them all up as assumptions. Because I have been researching all of this for years. I can prove everything I've written with credible sources. I don't make shit up because it sounds good. But good on you for trying to break it all down. EDIT: it is my Opinion from observation re: Clinton establishment voters. But it is backed up with psychological reason for behaviors in how we vote. (The "establishment" comments I made are not assumptions).

Which brings another thing up,... People who prefer not to seek out truths or question their government tend to be those who are half-asleep or another word...DENIAL.

Howard Zinn: "To Be Neutral, To Be Passive In A Situation Is To Collaborate With Whatever Is Going On"

I'm fine with you not liking Sanders, I don't really care. But if you'd like to point out what you think is hot air, perhaps I or someone else who's knowledgable on the topic can point you in the right direction.