Question for Hillary Clinton supporters.
Comments
-
You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.what dreams said:I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)
Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.
The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
We really don't know what any of them will do when they get in office, as that would be predicting the future.
Vote your conscious, vote your gut.Amy The Great #74594
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 20180 -
And this is why you should vote for Trump.amethgr8 said:We really don't know what any of them will do when they get in office, as that would be predicting the future.
Vote your conscious, vote your gut.
At least the stuff he says he will do is laughable at best.
He cares for the common person, he really does.
Watch out USA, he's comin0 -
No, I am a pacifist.Free said:Who Princess, are you pro-war?
And if you are wondering how I could vote for someone who was willing to go to war in Iraq, yeah, that bothers me. But I don't consider her a fraction of the warmonger that Dubya was. As I said, I'm being pragmatic. I haven't felt great about anybody from either party who's running this time. But I will still exercise my right to vote for someone who I think has the ability to be effective.
However unlikable she may seem, she still has my respect.
"The stars are all connected to the brain."0 -
Ok, then don't vote for her. Enjoy your egalitarian fantasy. The rest of us will do what we gotta do . . . vote for Clinton so that Trump is not our next president.brianlux said:
You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.what dreams said:I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)
Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.
The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.0 -
I'm Bernie Sanders and for $27 I will support this post.what dreams said:
Ok, then don't vote for her. Enjoy your egalitarian fantasy. The rest of us will do what we gotta do . . . vote for Clinton so that Trump is not our next president.brianlux said:
You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.what dreams said:I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)
Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.
The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.
edit - whatdreams post0 -
Hilary is coming to our town tomorrow and I am going to hear her speak. The place will be small and I think she may take questions.
What do you think would be a good question to ask her?
I started thinking about topics this afternoon when I found out I'd be going to this.Post edited by justam on&&&&&&&&&&&&&&0 -
You seem to take offense at my take on things yet have not really addressed what I said. That's interesting.what dreams said:
Ok, then don't vote for her. Enjoy your egalitarian fantasy. The rest of us will do what we gotta do . . . vote for Clinton so that Trump is not our next president.brianlux said:
You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.what dreams said:I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)
Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.
The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
Thanks for intuitively knowing where I was going. I'm a pacifist too. I'm going with the person who's pro peace, pro-person, pro-unity.Who Princess said:
No, I am a pacifist.Free said:Who Princess, are you pro-war?
And if you are wondering how I could vote for someone who was willing to go to war in Iraq, yeah, that bothers me. But I don't consider her a fraction of the warmonger that Dubya was. As I said, I'm being pragmatic. I haven't felt great about anybody from either party who's running this time. But I will still exercise my right to vote for someone who I think has the ability to be effective.
However unlikable she may seem, she still has my respect.
0 -
How about why she takes money from the fossil fuel industry and why she lied at the last debate about it?justam said:Hilary is coming to our town tomorrow and I am going to hear her speak. The place will be small and I think she may take questions.
What do you think would be a good question to ask her?
I started thinking about topics this afternoon when I found out I'd be going to this.
How about why she said she's pro woman but belittles young women for not supporting her?
How about how she's going to create new jobs, when more and more companies are shipping jobs overseas? Verizon and now Intel, closing down in US to give jobs to cheaper labor overseas.
0 -
The OP question is only really relevant to the primary, not the general.
In the general we vote for Clinton to stop Trump. It sucks, but there is literally zero option for most of us, having a part in electing Trump by refusing Clinton is not something I can have on my conscience.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
The thing is, however, at least here on AMT everyone is already assuming it's going to be Trump VS Clinton or BIG evil vs minor evil. It's true, Bernie is a long shot but he's not out of it. If you're like me and see Clinton as just an extension of big money, big business as usual then why not support the candidate who is willing to fight that, even if he isn't perfect in every way (who is?)?rgambs said:The OP question is only really relevant to the primary, not the general.
In the general we vote for Clinton to stop Trump. It sucks, but there is literally zero option for most of us, having a part in electing Trump by refusing Clinton is not something I can have on my conscience.
I hope you understand why I asked these questions. I think too many people cave in too easily. I don't mean that as a personal put down, not at all, but rather to encourage to not give up and give in to the "lesser of two evils syndrome". If we accept that, that is what we get."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I can see that these issues are important. I can also see that if I asked questions like these it would be very confrontational and it would only cause her to get defensive. It would be like throwing away an opportunity to actually make her think.Free said:
How about why she takes money from the fossil fuel industry and why she lied at the last debate about it?justam said:Hilary is coming to our town tomorrow and I am going to hear her speak. The place will be small and I think she may take questions.
What do you think would be a good question to ask her?
I started thinking about topics this afternoon when I found out I'd be going to this.
How about why she said she's pro woman but belittles young women for not supporting her?
How about how she's going to create new jobs, when more and more companies are shipping jobs overseas? Verizon and now Intel, closing down in US to give jobs to cheaper labor overseas.
I am thinking about issues that could be addressed in a more positive way. For example, I know that the best solutions to many problems are creative solutions that accomplish two or more things at once while solving a problem. An example of this would be how during the depression the CCC employed a lot of unemployed people to solve their unemployment plus get some projects done.
This presidential election is one in which we have to support a candidate who will keep Trump out of office. As much as I like Bernie Sanders, I don't think he can win a general election. I think Clinton might be able to win. As others have mentioned, she is a fighter and might be able to defeat him.
I think she's living in the past (because she doesn't realize that younger people don't really care about whether or not she's the first female president!) and I think she's blinded by her life-long ambition to be president, however, I think she would be a more effective president than Trump.
Now, back to my project...I want to think of something that might inspire her to solve a problem in a good way.
Post edited by justam on&&&&&&&&&&&&&&0 -
justam, please see my post above. We get what we deserve when we cave into accepting "less of two evils" syndrome.justam said:
I can see that these issues are important. I can also see that if I asked questions like these it would be very confrontational and it would only cause her to get defensive. It would be like throwing away an opportunity to actually make her think.Free said:
How about why she takes money from the fossil fuel industry and why she lied at the last debate about it?justam said:Hilary is coming to our town tomorrow and I am going to hear her speak. The place will be small and I think she may take questions.
What do you think would be a good question to ask her?
I started thinking about topics this afternoon when I found out I'd be going to this.
How about why she said she's pro woman but belittles young women for not supporting her?
How about how she's going to create new jobs, when more and more companies are shipping jobs overseas? Verizon and now Intel, closing down in US to give jobs to cheaper labor overseas.
I am thinking about issues that could be addressed in a more positive way. For example, I know that the best solutions to many problems are creative solutions that accomplish two or more things at once while solving a problem. An example of this would be how during the depression the CCC employed a lot of unemployed people to solve their unemployment plus get some projects done.
This presidential election is one in which we have to support a candidate who will keep Trump out of office. As much as I like Bernie Sanders, I don't think he can win a general election. I think Clinton might be able to win. As others have mentioned, she is a fighter and might be able to defeat him.
I think she's living in the past (because she doesn't realize that younger people don't really care about whether or not she's the first female president!) and I think she's blinded by her life-long ambition to be president, however, I think she would be a more effective president than Trump."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I'm thinking survival though. I'm half hispanic and I'm a woman. I CAN NOT take a chance on someone who might let Trump into office. He is a hate monger and HE is part of the 1%. I have nightmares about what he might do to our country!!!!!!!!brianlux said:
justam, please see my post above. We get what we deserve when we cave into accepting "less of two evils" syndrome.
Post edited by justam on&&&&&&&&&&&&&&0 -
Well I voted for Bernie and gave him some money, there isn't much more the average person can do. I think most liberals have done the same, but we are pragmatic and we are looking forward. I won't give Clinton any money, or any more support than to deem her the lesser of two evils...brianlux said:
The thing is, however, at least here on AMT everyone is already assuming it's going to be Trump VS Clinton or BIG evil vs minor evil. It's true, Bernie is a long shot but he's not out of it. If you're like me and see Clinton as just an extension of big money, big business as usual then why not support the candidate who is willing to fight that, even if he isn't perfect in every way (who is?)?rgambs said:The OP question is only really relevant to the primary, not the general.
In the general we vote for Clinton to stop Trump. It sucks, but there is literally zero option for most of us, having a part in electing Trump by refusing Clinton is not something I can have on my conscience.
I hope you understand why I asked these questions. I think too many people cave in too easily. I don't mean that as a personal put down, not at all, but rather to encourage to not give up and give in to the "lesser of two evils syndrome". If we accept that, that is what we get.
If everyone who even knew the name Jill Stein voted for her, she wouldn't even crack a few percent of the vote total. If Bernie can't pull it out, we are going to have to accept Clinton.Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
Relax, friends, Trump is not going to win. And let's not put the cart before the horse. The conventions are not even here yet."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0
-
Justam, I understand what you're saying.
If we think about it, regardless of how candidates "answer questions", how many of these candidates, once elected, follow through? Obama had some great ideas on his platform but how many got to fruition? How many candidates flip and flop on topics to appease certain audiences?0 -
Oh, and another thing for Clinton supporters: she most likely will not be able to win the candidacy with Sanders taking nearly half the delegates. He is literally stopping her from winning, and it will end up a contested convention.0
-
I'd vote for her because she can ride the subway or order Chipotle like she does it every day.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.8K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.7K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help