Question for Hillary Clinton supporters.

brianlux

At the outset let me say this: I'm creating this thread with the intent to ask an honest question, NOT to bate or troll any Clinton supporters.

So here's my question followed by my own observations:

What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?

I'm especially interested from hearing from Democrats who support Hillary for a number of reasons, mainly that, assuming you are a typical Democrat, it surprises me that you would do so and I say this because it seems to me Hillary is not a very typical Democrat.

-Most Democrats are in favor of a military based more on defense than aggression and offense and yet Hillary has proven herself to be a pro-war politician (she voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution giving President Bush authority to engage in the war with Iraq). Hillary is seen by many as being more of an interventionist than President Obama has been. Her foreign policy has been described as “neocon” by other neoconservatives.

-Most Democrats are concerned for the environment. Hillary has gained much support through her ties to Monsanto. That to my way of thinking (and you all know I think about and study this subject a lot) makes her anything but an environmentalist candidate. Though it has been somewhat limited, she has shown support for fracking, is pro offshore oil drilling and basically refused to take a stand against Keystone XL. She certainly is not aggressively anti-environmental but neither is she a strong supporter of this most critical issue.

-Democrats generally are in disfavor of the stranglehold corporations have on America and yet Hillary is well know for her ties with super PAC's. She is more likely to support bail outs of corporations.

-Most Democrats lean to the left. Hillary leans to the right.

-Democrats are generally progressives. Hillary appeals more to the conservative fear of change.

So what is it about Hillary that appeals to you? I'm truly baffled by the amount of support she has received, particularly from Democrats.

dignin

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

brianlux

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

rgambs

brianlux said:

dignin said:

I don't have much to add because I am a Bernie supporter.

But I would vote for her over Trump or Cruz because obviously she is not Trump or Cruz.

It's your damn 2 party system Brian, you don't have many options.

We have a Green Party. Depending on what happens in July, I may suggest more of us focus on that party.

There aren't enough of us, the vote splits and we all end up looking back and missing the freakin Dubya years...

dignin

Yeah, the 2 party system is a bitch.

brianlux

Yeah, it sucks.

Anyway, I hope to see some good answers here because I honest to God (or Buddha, The Universe, Zardoz, etc) don't understand the appeal for HRC.

Prince Of Dorkness

"What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?"

I think that she's been the target of the most bizarre, over-the-top, vicious attacks for the last 25 years... and she's still kicking.

That shows me that she isn't scared of any fight. She'll win those fights. She'll be a ball breaker.

I think that makes her an effective leader. I think she'll stand up to Republicans and make shit happen.

I voted for a nice guy promising hope and change 8 years ago. This year I'm voting for a hard ass who's going to tear shit up and make shit happen.

that's what appeals to me.

brianlux

Prince Of Dorkness said:

"What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?"

I think that she's been the target of the most bizarre, over-the-top, vicious attacks for the last 25 years... and she's still kicking.

That shows me that she isn't scared of any fight. She'll win those fights. She'll be a ball breaker.

I think that makes her an effective leader. I think she'll stand up to Republicans and make shit happen.

I voted for a nice guy promising hope and change 8 years ago. This year I'm voting for a hard ass who's going to tear shit up and make shit happen.

that's what appeals to me.

We have an honest answer- thank you POD!

I'm wearing a jock strap if she wins.

PJfanwillneverleave1

brianlux said:

Prince Of Dorkness said:

"What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?"

I think that she's been the target of the most bizarre, over-the-top, vicious attacks for the last 25 years... and she's still kicking.

That shows me that she isn't scared of any fight. She'll win those fights. She'll be a ball breaker.

I think that makes her an effective leader. I think she'll stand up to Republicans and make shit happen.

I voted for a nice guy promising hope and change 8 years ago. This year I'm voting for a hard ass who's going to tear shit up and make shit happen.

that's what appeals to me.

I'm wearing a jock strap if she wins.

Start learning how to post pics!
You're gonna need that skill come November.

brianlux

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

brianlux said:

Prince Of Dorkness said:

"What is it about Hillary Clinton that appeals to you and why do you support her bid for the presidency?"

I think that she's been the target of the most bizarre, over-the-top, vicious attacks for the last 25 years... and she's still kicking.

That shows me that she isn't scared of any fight. She'll win those fights. She'll be a ball breaker.

I think that makes her an effective leader. I think she'll stand up to Republicans and make shit happen.

I voted for a nice guy promising hope and change 8 years ago. This year I'm voting for a hard ass who's going to tear shit up and make shit happen.

that's what appeals to me.

I'm wearing a jock strap if she wins.

Start learning how to post pics!
You're gonna need that skill come November.

IF, buddy, I said IF she wins.

Meanwhile...

...holy crap, I'm on a current events forum talking about athletic underwear.

To the lounge!

what dreams

I have a love hate relationship with HRC. She is bright and well-spoken but when I watch her on the campaign trail, I cringe. That is not where she is at her best. When I listen to her give substantive policy speeches, I am inspired. I know she is corrupted by political money, but I know she is a realist who plays a game to win.
Her foreign policy position does not bother me because I have no problem with bombing the hell out of dangerous people (collateral damage not withstanding ). I tend to disagree with her government programs approach to social problems as I do not see them as effective. On the whole, though, she is on my side philosophically, and I agree with the above statement that somehow she has survived 20+ years of onslaught. She's tough as nails, and I like that about her.

brianlux

OK, so far what I'm hearing is she is in tight with big money, like to bomb the hell out of people (remembering a lot of those people are innocent middle east civilians), is in it to win the game, and she is ball-breaking tough as nails.

What else?

Degeneratefk

Best of the worst.

Degeneratefk

It makes me sick to vote for Gary Johnson again. I'm tired of voting for a party.

Free

I used to like Hillary. But she's about Wall St, big banks, pro-war and corporate special interests. She flat out lied @ the last debate about accepting money from the fossil fuel industry.

She says she's pro-woman. This is the biggest thing going for her! (besides having balls)

But her actions in recent months belittling young women for supporting another candidate pretty much did her in on that front.

Brian, why don't you ask my friend mrussell these questions? Or Kat?

what dreams

brianlux said:

OK, so far what I'm hearing is she is in tight with big money, like to bomb the hell out of people (remembering a lot of those people are innocent middle east civilians), is in it to win the game, and she is ball-breaking tough as nails.

What else?

I should add that I voted for Sanders in the primary, because I could. I said love-hate relationship.

brianlux

Again, I'm not intending to provoke or bate with these questions. I honestly just don't get it- why democrats support someone who is right of center yet poses as a liberal (whatever that means). What I've heard here and elsewhere (especially elsewhere) is that there are a number of people who 1) like the idea of our first woman-as-president (I do too) but who allow that wish to overshadow their choice, 2) because she knows how to play the game and 3) because she likely can beat which ever (Trump) republican is chosen. Unless there's more to it, to me that just doesn't add up.

what dreams

I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)

Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.

The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.

amethgr8

I don't think I will vote for her, but I can certainly see why some people would.

Who Princess

I think between POD's and what dream's comments, I really couldn't add much. But Brian, I think between your OP and the comments you've made in the thread, you've pretty much made up your mind about Hillary and none of our comments are going to convince you.

I'll vote for her because I'm pragmatic. I can only recall being really excited about one politician and that was Gov. Ann Richards of Texas. I had the good fortune of meeting her before she even ran for governor and she made a huge impression on me.

Everyone else I've ever voted for had things I didn't like about them, as does Hillary, but they are things I can live with. As has been pointed out several times, she's smart and she's unafraid. I'm also impressed at how respected she is in other parts of the world. If she wants the job that badly, she can have it.

Free

Who Princess, are you pro-war?

brianlux

what dreams said:

I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)

Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.

The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.

You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.

amethgr8

We really don't know what any of them will do when they get in office, as that would be predicting the future.

Vote your conscious, vote your gut.

PJfanwillneverleave1

amethgr8 said:

We really don't know what any of them will do when they get in office, as that would be predicting the future.

Vote your conscious, vote your gut.

And this is why you should vote for Trump.
At least the stuff he says he will do is laughable at best.
He cares for the common person, he really does.
Watch out USA, he's comin

Who Princess

Free said:

Who Princess, are you pro-war?

No, I am a pacifist.

And if you are wondering how I could vote for someone who was willing to go to war in Iraq, yeah, that bothers me. But I don't consider her a fraction of the warmonger that Dubya was. As I said, I'm being pragmatic. I haven't felt great about anybody from either party who's running this time. But I will still exercise my right to vote for someone who I think has the ability to be effective.

However unlikable she may seem, she still has my respect.

what dreams

brianlux said:

what dreams said:

I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)

Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.

The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.

You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.

Ok, then don't vote for her. Enjoy your egalitarian fantasy. The rest of us will do what we gotta do . . . vote for Clinton so that Trump is not our next president.

PJfanwillneverleave1

what dreams said:

brianlux said:

what dreams said:

I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)

Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.

The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.

You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.

Ok, then don't vote for her. Enjoy your egalitarian fantasy. The rest of us will do what we gotta do . . . vote for Clinton so that Trump is not our next president.

I'm Bernie Sanders and for $27 I will support this post.


edit - whatdreams post

justam

Hilary is coming to our town tomorrow and I am going to hear her speak. The place will be small and I think she may take questions.

What do you think would be a good question to ask her?

I started thinking about topics this afternoon when I found out I'd be going to this.

brianlux

what dreams said:

brianlux said:

what dreams said:

I wouldn't call Hillary right of center on anything other than -some- foreign policy issues like fighting terror. She is certainly leftist liberal on many issues. And I'm too tired to point out how obviously so she is. (Not trying to poke either, really just tired)

Even though I would like to live in Oz, I live in Kansas. That's why I can vote for Hillary. I really don't give a shit that she's a woman, and I don't expect any of my presidents to be super-human saviors. I expect them to do this basic job --meet with world leaders to serve America's *balanced* interests abroad (we have many conflicting), prevent crazy people from blowing up our country, and ensure that the laws made by Congress are executed. That's the president's job, and Hillary is intelligently capable of doing all those things well.

The thing is . . . Most America really is center.
It may be hard for you to accept, being the idealist that you are, but most of us are willing to accept imperfection and roll with it. Keeping my own life from falling apart is hard enough. I'm not about to save the world. Especially not with my vote.

You're not the first person here to refer to me as an idealist. What I've tried to do here and in other posts I've made, however, is to show that what some perceive as idealistic can just as easily be argued as pragmatic. Working to create a world that is more equitable for as many people as possible is pragmatic because the end result of doing so would benefit everyone in the long run. Working to help restore an ecological balance as humans being a part of (rather than self imposed ruler of) the world through a biocentric viewpoint is pragmatic: it benefits all species, human or otherwise. A Clinton presidency will not move the world closer to those practical goals. In affect, it would move us further from them. There is nothing idealistic about the goals of egalitarianism, equality and environmental stability. Those goals are both attainable and practical.

Ok, then don't vote for her. Enjoy your egalitarian fantasy. The rest of us will do what we gotta do . . . vote for Clinton so that Trump is not our next president.

You seem to take offense at my take on things yet have not really addressed what I said. That's interesting.

Free

Who Princess said:

Free said:

Who Princess, are you pro-war?

No, I am a pacifist.

And if you are wondering how I could vote for someone who was willing to go to war in Iraq, yeah, that bothers me. But I don't consider her a fraction of the warmonger that Dubya was. As I said, I'm being pragmatic. I haven't felt great about anybody from either party who's running this time. But I will still exercise my right to vote for someone who I think has the ability to be effective.

However unlikable she may seem, she still has my respect.

Thanks for intuitively knowing where I was going. I'm a pacifist too. I'm going with the person who's pro peace, pro-person, pro-unity.

Free

justam said:

Hilary is coming to our town tomorrow and I am going to hear her speak. The place will be small and I think she may take questions.

What do you think would be a good question to ask her?

I started thinking about topics this afternoon when I found out I'd be going to this.

How about why she takes money from the fossil fuel industry and why she lied at the last debate about it?

How about why she said she's pro woman but belittles young women for not supporting her?

How about how she's going to create new jobs, when more and more companies are shipping jobs overseas? Verizon and now Intel, closing down in US to give jobs to cheaper labor overseas.