Lottery Needs Fixing-Easy solution.

JB56195

So it boggles my mind that the following could happen:
Poster 1: 5 people and ZERO pairs for Toronto.
On the bright side, got Ottawa, Ft Lauderdale, Miami and Tampa Reserved.

Poster 2: Congratulation to all the winners. I was completely shut out - 0 for 10. If anyone comes across any extras for Ft. Lauderdale or Miami, please let me know. Travel already booked.

Poster 3: Got 5/1 MSG 1st choice. Got 4/29 Philly 2nd choice

It seems to be there should be some priority given to a weighted system. It is easy to make a computer algorithm that puts the maximal number of distinct fans into seats. You run one round and place as many people in distinct venues as possible. Any remaining tickets runs another round at second choice. People that won in the first round are not eligible in the 2nd round. An so on....Once the computer has satisfied all choices for one show then it opens it up to people getting duplicate shows. There is no way Poster 2 should get blanked when Poster 1 has 4 shows.

The GA part should be a lottery when you pick up tickets. People shouldn't have to rank GA vs Reserve. Once people get the show they want then the 10 club can randomly pull for GA to distribute the day of the show. I guess you should be able to specify to be excluded from the GA lottery.

I am less enthralled with Pearl Jam as I used to be so I am not too worried about not getting in, but others obviously are. I put all my eggs into MSG. The other addition that is needed is what shows are you willing to travel two and how many do you want to buy. I picked MSG because it is sort of a bucket list thing. However, if I found out I couldn't get MSG then I could have traveled to about five other shows. I can only spend time/money traveling to 1 show. The lottery should be able to allow to do this:
Shows I am wiling to attend: Miami, Greenville, MSG, Toronto, Ottawa
Number of shows desired: 1

PJ Fan est. 1990

eh, seems complicated. Should just limit the amount of 10c tickets a member can get to one show per tour.

Click your preferences of shows (and GA/Reserve) in order of priority. Then you select names out of the entire pool for a tour, and when their name comes up, they match your highest priority that is available, and then take your name out of the pool all together (unless there are still tickets to go around, then and only then can you win a second show) if your name is pulled and all of your preferences are sold out, you get some sort of perk (such as merch) or your name gets put on a list in which you are offered a pair of tickets to shows in cities that you did not initially request that may have had 10c tickets left over at the end of drawing. You would have 24 hours to respond to agree to take those tickets or else it goes to the next person on the list, etc. until the show is sold out. If there are no tickets left over to other shows, they guarentee you tickets to your #1 priority show for the next tour you apply to. Saying no or failing to respond to the left over ticket offer will take you off the waiting list.

So for future tours, they first go through last tour's waiting list and give them their #1 priority and then do the lottery as normal.

given2fly23

The problem with a lottery system is that everybody and their spouse enter because it is just a click and think "hey, I'll go if I "win" tickets." How many times have we seen people admit that they entered but won't bother with TM? What I preferred with the old system is that it required some persistence. I was willing to put in that time and it usually paid off.

I think this is the system going forward though, so just have to deal with it. Maybe they will limit shows, but that won't accomplish anything since most people only get 1-2 shows anyways.

I am NOTHINGMAN

I agree you should be able to pick a number of tickets willing to purchase and picking more shows, also the one drawing per venue with a chance of then getting GA tickets. Shouldnt be complicated at all to implement, as the old system itself had a lotto for rows 1/2 and 9/10 (or 10/11 cant remember for certain) As for number of shows, once your desired amount of shows you want to attend is reached, any remaining tickets drawn would just be null

gatorjam

I liked old rule of seniority plus rows 1 and 9 are random. I have a high # and scored row 9 for philly spectrum. Although i recalled telling someone at a restaurant i won the random drawing and they weren't happy cause they were sitting behind me and were members for a long time. Blah blah no one will ever be happy!!

corduroykelly

All members regardless of seniority should have access to GA.

GummiBeer

the easy fix is to limit the amount the shows you are able to apply for, drop it down to 3-4, not the whole tour

ragejoe

PJ Fan est. 1990 said:

eh, seems complicated. Should just limit the amount of 10c tickets a member can get to one show per tour.

Click your preferences of shows (and GA/Reserve) in order of priority. Then you select names out of the entire pool for a tour, and when their name comes up, they match your highest priority that is available, and then take your name out of the pool all together (unless there are still tickets to go around, then and only then can you win a second show) if your name is pulled and all of your preferences are sold out, you get some sort of perk (such as merch) or your name gets put on a list in which you are offered a pair of tickets to shows in cities that you did not initially request that may have had 10c tickets left over at the end of drawing. You would have 24 hours to respond to agree to take those tickets or else it goes to the next person on the list, etc. until the show is sold out. If there are no tickets left over to other shows, they guarentee you tickets to your #1 priority show for the next tour you apply to. Saying no or failing to respond to the left over ticket offer will take you off the waiting list.

So for future tours, they first go through last tour's waiting list and give them their #1 priority and then do the lottery as normal.

This is exactly what I dont want as a 10c member since 1999... The only thing that annoys me about this system is that I cant get tickets to BOTH MSG or Philly or 2 venue shows... This band is built on their shows and people following them but their most recent Lottery system change takes this ability away to some extent.

rival9500

JB56195 said:

So it boggles my mind that the following could happen:
Poster 1: 5 people and ZERO pairs for Toronto.
On the bright side, got Ottawa, Ft Lauderdale, Miami and Tampa Reserved.

Poster 2: Congratulation to all the winners. I was completely shut out - 0 for 10. If anyone comes across any extras for Ft. Lauderdale or Miami, please let me know. Travel already booked.

Poster 3: Got 5/1 MSG 1st choice. Got 4/29 Philly 2nd choice

It seems to be there should be some priority given to a weighted system. It is easy to make a computer algorithm that puts the maximal number of distinct fans into seats. You run one round and place as many people in distinct venues as possible. Any remaining tickets runs another round at second choice. People that won in the first round are not eligible in the 2nd round. An so on....Once the computer has satisfied all choices for one show then it opens it up to people getting duplicate shows. There is no way Poster 2 should get blanked when Poster 1 has 4 shows.

The GA part should be a lottery when you pick up tickets. People shouldn't have to rank GA vs Reserve. Once people get the show they want then the 10 club can randomly pull for GA to distribute the day of the show. I guess you should be able to specify to be excluded from the GA lottery.

I am less enthralled with Pearl Jam as I used to be so I am not too worried about not getting in, but others obviously are. I put all my eggs into MSG. The other addition that is needed is what shows are you willing to travel two and how many do you want to buy. I picked MSG because it is sort of a bucket list thing. However, if I found out I couldn't get MSG then I could have traveled to about five other shows. I can only spend time/money traveling to 1 show. The lottery should be able to allow to do this:
Shows I am wiling to attend: Miami, Greenville, MSG, Toronto, Ottawa
Number of shows desired: 1

I like this idea. It "spreads the love" way better and more fair for everyone.

bootleg

I'm liking some of the suggestions on here and a think a hybrid of some of the ideas could end up being a more fair solution for all. No solution will be perfect but there still seems like there is a lot of room for progress. And really, the algorithms to do some of this stuff are not that complicated. I like the lottery compared to F5 even though I don't think I ever missed out on tix through F5. But sometimes it took 8 hours and I'm not a big fan of sitting around wasting time so I'll take the lottery over that. But if we're going to do lottery lets do it the best way possible for the fan population as a whole. No well designed system should see one fan getting tix for multiple shows while another fan gets left out for the same shows.

Porchsitter

In no way complaining as I got tix, but I do think seniority should have some privilege. That's not to say the ability to go to any show at any time, but I would like to see two things. One, a limit to how many shows you can enter. I don't think it should be limited to just one show but at least limit it to no more than three. Any more shows wanted beyond that, you'll have to deal with TM. This in no way solves the problem for higher demand shows, but that's always going to be a problem in areas where there is a higher population density. I'd also like to see a system where once you've won for one city, you are put in the back of the line for the next choice, but I can see how that would be difficult to police. Mostly, I'd like to see a weighted lottery whereby you receive an entry into the lottery for every five years you've been a member. This would reward loyalty and give those who've been in the fan club a long time another chance at winning.

MayDay10

To me, the biggest issue is the ability to go straight for ga. I'm pretty sure that a lot of members have signed up people who they might typically go to shows with for more chances. That and legit newer members have all the incentive to go for ga... and members with good numbers settle with good seats on reserved. That leaves people with mid type numbers in a bad spot. These ga pairs also turn into currency. One pair often means you get to go to 2 GA shows.

I would like there to one option for each show and you can decline ga. Then draw for ga after the fact and it's revealed when people pick up tickets. They could even make the first couple rows on the closest reserve sections random.

GA line should be randomized to eliminate that nonsense.

Ticketless entry. To make sure people who get the tickets are going to shows and 'extra pairs' are never traded or sold. Also obliterates scalping.

I would like the selection programming to prioritize people who have not won tickets each round.

And also the ability to make a contingency selections would be great. It's much easier for me to go to toronto, nyc, philly, or ottawa... but if I get shut out, I'll make a trip to raleigh... however, I currently cant put raleigh on there because I can't go to/afford 3 - 5 shows... but it would be nice if you are willing to travel, you can all but guarantee 1 concert with 10c tickets.



Edit: I did very well this round and have the strategy figured out. It still has a lot of room for improvement

nycrats

"EASY SOLUTION" = "just a complex algorithm that takes into account the following 11 factors based on when a person enters for what show geographically cross pollinated with selection order and fulfillment by others in less in demand cities and taking into account those whose favorite color is yellow and were born on a sunday"

my2hands

The system is fine... most people complaining would have zero shot in the F5 days anyway...

And new people complaining about the lottery have no idea what a cluster fuck F5 was... veterans that are complaining are probably just greedy and are pissed because they used to get every show they wanted because they were willing to F5 all day like I used to do... fuck all that shit, the lottery is a godsend compared to the free for all system of yesterday

MayDay10

I'm not sure I see anyone advocating for f5 here?

pdalowsky

my2hands said:

The system is fine... most people complaining would have zero shot in the F5 days anyway...

And new people complaining about the lottery have no idea what a cluster fuck F5 was... veterans that are complaining are probably just greedy and are pissed because they used to get every show they wanted because they were willing to F5 all day like I used to do... fuck all that shit, the lottery is a godsend compared to the free for all system of yesterday

absolutely solid.

JB56195

PJ Fan est. 1990 said:

eh, seems complicated. Should just limit the amount of 10c tickets a member can get to one show per tour.

Click your preferences of shows (and GA/Reserve) in order of priority. Then you select names out of the entire pool for a tour, and when their name comes up, they match your highest priority that is available, and then take your name out of the pool all together (unless there are still tickets to go around, then and only then can you win a second show) if your name is pulled and all of your preferences are sold out, you get some sort of perk (such as merch) or your name gets put on a list in which you are offered a pair of tickets to shows in cities that you did not initially request that may have had 10c tickets left over at the end of drawing. You would have 24 hours to respond to agree to take those tickets or else it goes to the next person on the list, etc. until the show is sold out. If there are no tickets left over to other shows, they guarentee you tickets to your #1 priority show for the next tour you apply to. Saying no or failing to respond to the left over ticket offer will take you off the waiting list.

So for future tours, they first go through last tour's waiting list and give them their #1 priority and then do the lottery as normal.

That is exactly what I am proposing...perhaps you phrased it better.

JB56195

I will tell you that this is what they do to match physicians to hospitals after graduation. They make it so the most people win because doctors don't want to not be assigned to a residency and hospitals don't want to have empty slots for employees they need.

Poncier

GummiBeer said:

the easy fix is to limit the amount the shows you are able to apply for, drop it down to 3-4, not the whole tour

I think this would help for sure. If folks could only enter for a certain number of shows, it would give folks a better shot at the 1 or 2 shows they wanted most because the competition would be a bit less. It wouldn't be a cure all, but MSG might have odds of 25% instead of 7% for GA for example and people would have to be a touch more selective with their choices.

I guess the downside from the band's perspective would be they may not get enough requests for their allotted ticket supply in the lower demand cities like in the Carolinas this time around. But in those cases they could then do a 2nd chance lottery like they did for Phoenix and Calgary (I think it was) in 2013.

Force Of Nature

I didnt bother reading all the posts but I just want to say its refreshing to see a suggestion without all the moaning and bitching at 10C that usually comes along with. Whether this works is a different question.

know1

I think it's a good system. Let's face it, if you want to see a show you can do it.

You just need to be willing to sit in Reserved or travel a bit to a less populated area or a non-weekend night - just like people like me who haven't had Pearl Jam come very close for a long time, but have faithfully not let my membership lapse for 13 years or so. I have yet to miss my first choice, but I've made safe first choices.

GA and trying to see bunches of shows are what's causing most of the complaints. I'd love to see them in GA sometime, but I'd rather see them than not and you basically have very little chance of seeing them in GA with a 2nd choice or lower.

bootlegger10

GummiBeer said:

the easy fix is to limit the amount the shows you are able to apply for, drop it down to 3-4, not the whole tour

Nobody though is winning more than 3-4 shows. If you win a show in the 3rd, 4th or 5th slot then everyone had their chance. Banning multiple shows will not get you NYC tickets any easier, so lets not get rid of that option.

bootlegger10

MayDay10 said:

To me, the biggest issue is the ability to go straight for ga. I'm pretty sure that a lot of members have signed up people who they might typically go to shows with for more chances. That and legit newer members have all the incentive to go for ga... and members with good numbers settle with good seats on reserved. That leaves people with mid type numbers in a bad spot. These ga pairs also turn into currency. One pair often means you get to go to 2 GA shows.

I would like there to one option for each show and you can decline ga. Then draw for ga after the fact and it's revealed when people pick up tickets. They could even make the first couple rows on the closest reserve sections random.

GA line should be randomized to eliminate that nonsense.

Ticketless entry. To make sure people who get the tickets are going to shows and 'extra pairs' are never traded or sold. Also obliterates scalping.

I would like the selection programming to prioritize people who have not won tickets each round.

And also the ability to make a contingency selections would be great. It's much easier for me to go to toronto, nyc, philly, or ottawa... but if I get shut out, I'll make a trip to raleigh... however, I currently cant put raleigh on there because I can't go to/afford 3 - 5 shows... but it would be nice if you are willing to travel, you can all but guarantee 1 concert with 10c tickets.



Edit: I did very well this round and have the strategy figured out. It still has a lot of room for improvement

Good comments. I will say one thing though is that these are fan club tickets and you still have a shot at 80% of the venue's seats later on (albeit no guaranteeds). From the Ten Club's perspectives they want to make everyone happy but they can't and how far do you take the program and how complex do you make it to just allocate 10-15% of the venues seats.

Indifference

One potential issue is some people might not want GA at all for whatever reason - height, medical, etc.

Poncier

bootlegger10 said:

GummiBeer said:

the easy fix is to limit the amount the shows you are able to apply for, drop it down to 3-4, not the whole tour

Nobody though is winning more than 3-4 shows. If you win a show in the 3rd, 4th or 5th slot then everyone had their chance. Banning multiple shows will not get you NYC tickets any easier, so lets not get rid of that option.

Not totally true.
Take for example a guy like long time 10 clubber Craven Moorehead who lives in East Podunk, SC.

Craven has always desired to go to New York and puts MSG in as his first choice, then follows it up with selections for Greenville, Raleigh and Columbia.
Craven gets lucky and gets selected for MSG then gets all 3 of his other choices because of low demand in the Carolinas.
Had Craven not been allowed to enter for any and all shows and instead been limited to say 3 cities, he might have chosen to enter only for the 3 shows that he could drive to and not risked the MSG entry, thus lowering the number of entrants for a high demand show.

MayDay10

Indifference said:

One potential issue is some people might not want GA at all for whatever reason - height, medical, etc.

Thats why they would have a check-box when you put in your entries to opt out of GA

CaptainB

i think there's certainly advantages to the lottery, though i think short of limiting the # of shows a member can apply for (which i don't see happening) one way to maybe level the playing field would be to have the odds reflect what the chances of winning tickets would be IF that show was selected as a 1st priority. that at least gives everyone a better indicator of what their chances are for 1 show of their choice. The current odds are almost meaningless.

it would be interesting to know the statistics of how many unique members entered the lottery and to see a distribution of how many shows were entered for those unique members.

oh, and also for simplicity's sake don't delineate between GA and reserved. i'm sure that only complicates the choices for the folks in NYC or Philly

ckravitz

By making GA a checkbox aren't you giving people that want GA two chances and those that don't only one? Seems as inequitable as what we are trying to fix to me.

MayDay10

ckravitz said:

By making GA a checkbox aren't you giving people that want GA two chances and those that don't only one? Seems as inequitable as what we are trying to fix to me.

no.

You would have 1 choice for each show. It would be "Raleigh" or "MSG I", etc. Then you can check a box (or some other way for the software to recognize you dont want GA tix).

So they get all the entries. Then for MSG I, they draw all the 10c tix winners. Say there are 500 pairs in GA and 1000 pairs reserved. They choose 1500 winners. They do this for each show and go on down the line (Im also for giving folks who were not successful in round 1 preference in round 2).

So after all the tickets are done, cards charged, people emailed, dust settles... they draw for GA out of the 1,500 pairs. the 100 winners who do not want GA are excluded, so the remaining 1,400 people are drawn for the 500 GA pairs. When they pick up their tickets, they get a nice surprise.


I know when typed out it "sounds" confusing... but this is actually much less confusing than the current method and a piece of cake to program.

pjhawks

MayDay10 said:

ckravitz said:

By making GA a checkbox aren't you giving people that want GA two chances and those that don't only one? Seems as inequitable as what we are trying to fix to me.

no.

You would have 1 choice for each show. It would be "Raleigh" or "MSG I", etc. Then you can check a box (or some other way for the software to recognize you dont want GA tix).

So they get all the entries. Then for MSG I, they draw all the 10c tix winners. Say there are 500 pairs in GA and 1000 pairs reserved. They choose 1500 winners. They do this for each show and go on down the line (Im also for giving folks who were not successful in round 1 preference in round 2).

So after all the tickets are done, cards charged, people emailed, dust settles... they draw for GA out of the 1,500 pairs. the 100 winners who do not want GA are excluded, so the remaining 1,400 people are drawn for the 500 GA pairs. When they pick up their tickets, they get a nice surprise.


I know when typed out it "sounds" confusing... but this is actually much less confusing than the current method and a piece of cake to program.

but what do you do if not 500 people who were selected wanted GA? then you have to give GA to people who didn't want them. i think there are a lot of people like me who have no interest in GA.

on2legs

In a perfect world I would prefer GA. But all the nonsense that people bring to it like lining up early, multiple lists, fighting over spots makes it unappealing. I'll take my reserved seat and show up when I'm done with the preparty. No drama.