Our Fate Lies With Americans
Comments
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Oh Jason your still the master of bringing perfect visuals with your points.Post edited by callen on10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0
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so basically damned if we do (iraq) and damned if we don't (africa). we can't win with some of you people. no matter what actions or non-actions someone always has a complaint. talk about simplistic view. should we have just let the Russians take over Afghanistan in the 1980s? and then let them ove on to other countries? should we have allowed Saddam to continue in power? i guess we should have but then we would be criticized for letting an evil dictator stay in power. damned if we do, damned if we don't.HughFreakingDillon said:
this is a very simplistic view and not at all accurate. the same could be said about many of the other major economic and military powers of the world. and how the US abuses its power is the problem. many times, no one asks for the help of the US. they just barge in and start killing everybody, not just the "bad guys". how many iraqi civilians died at the hands of their supposed saviors? and the US only seem to help when they have vested interest in the area's resources. how many times has the US bombed or sent thousands of troops into africa to overthrow a genocidal maniac? the US has financed/trained/supplied how many of the world's biggest threats now, because at the time it was in their interest to do so?pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).Post edited by pjhawks on0 -
this is simply false ... how anyone can believe this stuff is sad ...pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).0 -
funny coming from the guy who thinks we can achieve world peace by not buying gas at Exxon, or water from Nestle. yup that is what the world needs.polaris_x said:
this is simply false ... how anyone can believe this stuff is sad ...pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).
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While I understand the comments about not having kids, is it really worse than the dark ages? What happened to the Incan empire,Mayan empire, Aztec empire, Roman Empire, etc....? There has always been war, famine, political strife, abuse of women and children, natural disasters, etc... Certainly it is crazier now with the type of weapons held, but we are still less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than by a lightning bolt and no one is not having kids because of lightning bolts. The thing that scares me the most about the future is technology and its impact on the power of government and companies, as well as on privacy and employment. I don't want to be around when babies are manufactured.
Hopefully none of us ready to put our heads in a gas oven, so it can't be that bad.Post edited by bootlegger10 on0 -
USA USA USA. Pledge of allegiance said daily by us kids. That's how it becomes believable.polaris_x said:
this is simply false ... how anyone can believe this stuff is sad ...pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).
You have great points and Americans are wasteful selfish fks but so are all humans. Think folks in Africa wouldn't suck up resources as do Americans if they had them? We just had great resources and for a time really cheap labor.
In Europe people have small efficient cars. When we have expats come here they buy big ass trucks and sports sedans with V8's.
Agree wholeheartedly that we meddle way too much and big contributor to the worlds messed.
Great thread and kudos for stating your opinion on this US dominated board.10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
Don't recall any posts from anyone claiming world peace solved by boycotting Exxon. Can you provide link.pjhawks said:
funny coming from the guy who thinks we can achieve world peace by not buying gas at Exxon, or water from Nestle. yup that is what the world needs.polaris_x said:
this is simply false ... how anyone can believe this stuff is sad ...pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG0 -
actually, that is wrong. I'm not saying the US are obligated to go into africa. I'm saying that some americans seem to believe going into iraq was heroic: it wasn't. it was US economic self-interest. it had nothing to do with getting rid of a dictator that killed his own people: many other dictactors do that with zero american interference. ask yourself why.pjhawks said:
so basically damned if we do (iraq) and damned if we don't (africa). we can't win with some of you people. no matter what actions or non-actions someone always has a complaint. talk about simplistic view. should we have just let the Russians take over Afghanistan in the 1980s? and then let them ove on to other countries? should we have allowed Saddam to continue in power? i guess we should have but then we would be criticized for letting an evil dictator stay in power. damned if we do, damned if we don't.HughFreakingDillon said:
this is a very simplistic view and not at all accurate. the same could be said about many of the other major economic and military powers of the world. and how the US abuses its power is the problem. many times, no one asks for the help of the US. they just barge in and start killing everybody, not just the "bad guys". how many iraqi civilians died at the hands of their supposed saviors? and the US only seem to help when they have vested interest in the area's resources. how many times has the US bombed or sent thousands of troops into africa to overthrow a genocidal maniac? the US has financed/trained/supplied how many of the world's biggest threats now, because at the time it was in their interest to do so?pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).
don't finance and arm rebels.
don't go into anywhere unless asked.
the US playing the unappreciated hero is getting a bit tired.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
yes, this stuff has been around since the beginning of time. it's just that I'm more aware of it now that I have kids.bootlegger10 said:While I understand the comments about not having kids, is it really worse than the dark ages? What happened to the Incan empire,Mayan empire, Aztec empire, Roman Empire, etc....? There has always been war, famine, political strife, abuse of women and children, natural disasters, etc... Certainly it is crazier now with the type of weapons held, but we are still less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than by a lightning bolt and no one is not having kids because of lightning bolts. The thing that scares me the most about the future is technology and its impact on the power of government and companies, as well as on privacy and employment. I don't want to be around when babies are manufactured.
Hopefully none of us ready to put our heads in a gas oven, so it can't be that bad.
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
Let the Russians take over Afghanistan? How about not provoking the war in the first place? The US-engineered conflict that spawned the Mujahadeen ---> al qaeda....9/11, re-invasion of Afghanistan, Iraq wars, Syria, ISIS etc etc...Says something that people still view this as the USSR's fault.pjhawks said:
so basically damned if we do (iraq) and damned if we don't (africa). we can't win with some of you people. no matter what actions or non-actions someone always has a complaint. talk about simplistic view. should we have just let the Russians take over Afghanistan in the 1980s? and then let them ove on to other countries? should we have allowed Saddam to continue in power? i guess we should have but then we would be criticized for letting an evil dictator stay in power. damned if we do, damned if we don't.HughFreakingDillon said:
this is a very simplistic view and not at all accurate. the same could be said about many of the other major economic and military powers of the world. and how the US abuses its power is the problem. many times, no one asks for the help of the US. they just barge in and start killing everybody, not just the "bad guys". how many iraqi civilians died at the hands of their supposed saviors? and the US only seem to help when they have vested interest in the area's resources. how many times has the US bombed or sent thousands of troops into africa to overthrow a genocidal maniac? the US has financed/trained/supplied how many of the world's biggest threats now, because at the time it was in their interest to do so?pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).
Where are some examples of 'damned if we don't' as it pertains to foreign policy? You may hear those complaints, but they're coming from the hawks who are causing the problems in the first place. Fuck them.
edit: Hugh's comments are clearly not damning the US for not taking out African despots....he's obviously pointing to the hypocrisy of US policy.
"According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahideen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise. Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention."....."Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire." Interview with Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998
Post edited by Drowned Out on0 -
If what you say is true, is it really wise that the world as a whole relies on one nation to keep itself (marginally) together? Let's look at it more simplistically: if a person is so dysfunctional in the way they handle their life that they have become needy and dependent on some one more powerful, strong willed, and wealthy, is it really in the best interest of the dysfunctional person to be propped up by someone strong and powerful who enables that person to remain weak and dependent? No, it's not. The dysfunctional person gets better if they find or are led to find their own solutions and become strong and well on their own.pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).
The US is like a bad counselor who keeps their client in constant dependency. We are the greediest nation on earth and we maintain our power through coercion and world policing. That cannot last forever and when empires fall, they fall hard.
Thank you Gambs. Your thoughts give us hope.rgambs said:I have a deplorably low amount of hope for the world. It's sad.
The greatest hope I have is that my boy can grow up in a world with little enough suffering to allow him to have his feet in the grass, his hands in the dirt, and his head in the clouds.
I don't have the capacity to hope for much more than a continuation of relative comfort for another generation lol
It isn't the size of the problem that kills me, it's the size of the solution."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I hear what your saying but when you have kids all you think about is their well being at all times , i don't feel i made a mistake they are both great kids ...having great kids doesn't mean a great world though and right now i'd say this world is in big time trouble ....PJfanwillneverleave1 said:
Do you two actually have that bleak of an attitude?josevolution said:
I feel exactly the same way would do anything for my two kids but man I think to myself what have I done ....HughFreakingDillon said:I honestly sometimes feel guilty about having kids. I love them to pieces. But sometimes I think "what did I do to them, bringing them into this world of suffering and pain and eventual destruction?". All I can hope for is, as someone said above, that it doesn't go to pot while they are around.
Jeesh
Life - you guys wanted to give it to others. The world is not that bad.
Breathe, exhale, repeat - the world is not ending
Your kids will be fine.
Pretty dark to think that you may have made a mistake bringing people into the world. We are but a speck of dust on this earth.jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
Also helps that Beijing is in what is essentially a bowl and thats why the smog seems so severe. No wing to carry it away.polaris_x said:
emissions per capita by chinese like a third of americans ... also factor in that the US is China's largest trading partner ... your picture is the outcome of walmart, apple, etc...Jason P said:Lovely time to take a walk in Beijing this past week ...
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
no pressure though, right?NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=4350 -
Also helps that Beijing is in what is essentially a bowl and thats why the smog seems so severe. No wing to carry it away.polaris_x said:
emissions per capita by chinese like a third of americans ... also factor in that the US is China's largest trading partner ... your picture is the outcome of walmart, apple, etc...Jason P said:Lovely time to take a walk in Beijing this past week ...
_____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '140 -
No worries, I get plenty of that! I was out splitting up a black walnut tree just before I made that post. The thread caught me at a time of appreciating the small things, I was enjoying the exquisite smell of the wood on my hands and I wondered if Simon would be lucky enough to enjoy the labors and delights of a simple life.callen said:
Gambs may be time to take wife kid and pups for a walk in the woods. Turn off electronics and absorb some Mother Nature.rgambs said:I have a deplorably low amount of hope for the world. It's sad.
The greatest hope I have is that my boy can grow up in a world with little enough suffering to allow him to have his feet in the grass, his hands in the dirt, and his head in the clouds.
I don't have the capacity to hope for much more than a continuation of relative comfort for another generation lol
It isn't the size of the problem that kills me, it's the size of the solution.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?0 -
i agree w/ pjfanwillneverleave when he said
"Do you two actually have that bleak of an attitude?
Jeesh
Life - you guys wanted to give it to others. The world is not that bad.
Breathe, exhale, repeat - the world is not ending
Your kids will be fine.
Pretty dark to think that you may have made a mistake bringing people into the world. We are but a speck of dust on this earth."
where's grandpa's hunting rifle? 5am comes pretty quick
the white stripes/jack white are pretty badass tho i gotta say
now calm the fuck downfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
umm re-read the original post of this thread.callen said:
Don't recall any posts from anyone claiming world peace solved by boycotting Exxon. Can you provide link.pjhawks said:
funny coming from the guy who thinks we can achieve world peace by not buying gas at Exxon, or water from Nestle. yup that is what the world needs.polaris_x said:
this is simply false ... how anyone can believe this stuff is sad ...pjhawks said:if America pulled back militarily from the rest of the world the world would be a much unsafer place. our power is a deterrent.
if American's pulled back economically from every other country in the world the world's economy would collapse and those countries would be in far worse shape then they are now.
as many problems as we cause the world depends on us on a daily basis. Funny how almost every country shits on us...until something bad happens then they come crawling for our help (and if we don't help we get shit on).0 -
agree. people act like this is the scariest time in world history. i would argue during WWII and the Cold War things were much worse. during the cold war every major city could have been blown off the map in a matter of minutes. that is far more less likely today.bootlegger10 said:While I understand the comments about not having kids, is it really worse than the dark ages? What happened to the Incan empire,Mayan empire, Aztec empire, Roman Empire, etc....? There has always been war, famine, political strife, abuse of women and children, natural disasters, etc... Certainly it is crazier now with the type of weapons held, but we are still less likely to be killed in a terrorist attack than by a lightning bolt and no one is not having kids because of lightning bolts. The thing that scares me the most about the future is technology and its impact on the power of government and companies, as well as on privacy and employment. I don't want to be around when babies are manufactured.
Hopefully none of us ready to put our heads in a gas oven, so it can't be that bad.0
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