Re Amazon being open on Thanksgiving: A lot of stores make working on stat holidays optional because they know they'll have no probs staffing the place because the staff gets paid overtime. Plenty of people WANT to work holidays for that very reason. In my experience, places ask their staff and work it out. Usually those without families are a good option on holidays, or people who don't celebrate the holiday in question at all. I.e. nothing wrong with having someone who didn't celebrate Thanksgiving to work! Same with Christmas. As far as Amazon goes... it's open 24/7/365 in any case, as most online stores are, so the issue is actually moot as far as they go in particular.
Amazon has massive warehouses and a lot of people are needed to keep the site running smoothly 24/7/365, right?...Including thanksgiving? If the point of the boycott is to not shop at places that are open thanksgiving, then why does the OP mention not needing walmart when we have amazon? Amazon is a bigger company than walmart....does the fact that we don't have to see and feel bad for the workers that day make it ok, or am I missing something? I agree - there are people who don't care and wouldn't mind making OT wages...if those places actually pay it.
I have no clue about the US, but wouldn't companies be legally obligated to pay overtime wages for Thanksgiving and Christmas in Canada? Can a company fire an employee because they refuse to work on Christmas day? I have no clue, but I'm under the impression that there is some kind of protection there.... Anyway, you're right, I almost forgot people claim to be upset about this because of the staff in the stores. Can't say I'm buying that, for the most part. I think most people are actually upset about it because they feel like their own sense of peace is violated by the fact that people are choosing to go out and fight over a DVD player on a holiday they value. I think people are actually offended because they feel like their traditions are being messed with. I'd be willing to bet that total strangers having to work on a holiday is completely besides the point for 98% of people.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
Shopping on Thanksgiving Day either at a brick and mortar or on-line? NO WAY!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I don't get why they suddenly started opening on thanksgiving day. When they'd open at 8 am on Friday it was like "alright, cool.you do you, big box store." But then they started opening earlier and earlier, 6 am, 3am, midnight. Now they're just out of their minds.
I used to go around 10 or 11 meet up with friends, pick up coffee at Dunkin, and go out to various malls in long island where they have parking lots and a bunch of big box stores in one place. We'd occasionally buy something if it was a really good deal and accessible. Couple hard drives here and there, a monitor maybe. pajamas from old navy. Mostly it was for entertainment. The one year we went into a Walmart it was absolute carnage. The place looked like it had been looted. But it was different, we went out at night and then got breakfast in tree morning before going home. We weren't involved in the craziness nor were we skipping out on "family time" since it was at night and none of us had big family thanksgiving dinners like you hear about people doing on tv.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't get why they suddenly started opening on thanksgiving day. When they'd open at 8 am on Friday it was like "alright, cool.you do you, big box store." But then they started opening earlier and earlier, 6 am, 3am, midnight. Now they're just out of their minds.
I used to go around 10 or 11 meet up with friends, pick up coffee at Dunkin, and go out to various malls in long island where they have parking lots and a bunch of big box stores in one place. We'd occasionally buy something if it was a really good deal and accessible. Couple hard drives here and there, a monitor maybe. pajamas from old navy. Mostly it was for entertainment. The one year we went into a Walmart it was absolute carnage. The place looked like it had been looted. But it was different, we went out at night and then got breakfast in tree morning before going home. We weren't involved in the craziness nor were we skipping out on "family time" since it was at night and none of us had big family thanksgiving dinners like you hear about people doing on tv.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
Family fun and togetherness. My family went and watched the LOTR movies on Thanksgiving or Christmas when they were coming out, it was a nice time to do it. Nothing else is happening, there's nothing remotely good on TV, and the family is together...
I just don't understand the outrage i guess. My family loves it. Its fun to watch the chaos and to get the blu rays and CDs you want for 80% off.
If you work in retail it might suck to have to work Thanksgiving night but thats the nature of retail in America. I do prefer it starting on Friday tho. More fun
The delusion that Thanksgiving day is an actual day of giving thanks is ridiculous.
Everyday should be a day of giving thanks for what we have, not just some day in November that we mostly get off work.
If there are sales, people will shop. If people don't want to work, then requested off.
In the big picture, it certainly does seem that way but for me it's always a great day because I spend it with the people I care about. This year is our first without my wonderful brother-in-law, Tom. I'm thankful for the life he had and thankful to be so close to my sister. I'm thankful for the good people in my life who are still here and that I can be with them. I wouldn't want to spend the day doing anything else.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I don't get why they suddenly started opening on thanksgiving day. When they'd open at 8 am on Friday it was like "alright, cool.you do you, big box store." But then they started opening earlier and earlier, 6 am, 3am, midnight. Now they're just out of their minds.
I used to go around 10 or 11 meet up with friends, pick up coffee at Dunkin, and go out to various malls in long island where they have parking lots and a bunch of big box stores in one place. We'd occasionally buy something if it was a really good deal and accessible. Couple hard drives here and there, a monitor maybe. pajamas from old navy. Mostly it was for entertainment. The one year we went into a Walmart it was absolute carnage. The place looked like it had been looted. But it was different, we went out at night and then got breakfast in tree morning before going home. We weren't involved in the craziness nor were we skipping out on "family time" since it was at night and none of us had big family thanksgiving dinners like you hear about people doing on tv.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
Family fun and togetherness. My family went and watched the LOTR movies on Thanksgiving or Christmas when they were coming out, it was a nice time to do it. Nothing else is happening, there's nothing remotely good on TV, and the family is together...
Maybe that explains it. People don't get upset about movie theatres being open on thanksgiving because they might like to go see a movie on thanksgiving evening or at least at some point that weekend. Point being that they can entertain the possibility of utilizing the movie theatres service. But they do not want to engage in the black Friday shopping madness, so they get angry that it is happening. Maybe because they want to get good deals and save money, but don't want to actually have to look to see what's on sale at which store and then go to it. makes sense.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
The delusion that Thanksgiving day is an actual day of giving thanks is ridiculous.
Everyday should be a day of giving thanks for what we have, not just some day in November that we mostly get off work.
If there are sales, people will shop. If people don't want to work, then requested off.
I pretty much agree with this. Either people are thankful or not. Whatever. Either people want to shop on Thanksgiving or not. I am not sure why in the world retailers decided that special sales should occur on national and/or international holidays, but whatever the reason, they aren't putting guns to our heads and forcing us to shop. This is just a case of the general public being brainwashed by the entities that keep the capitalist machine running. So basically, the public simply needs to pull its collective head out of its collective ass, and all of this would go away. If it chooses to keep being the collective capitalist lemming, then the retailers will keep having these sales. Simple as that. As far as the employees are concerned.... I thought that point about movie theatres was a good one. There are TONS of non-essential businesses that remain open on Thanksgiving besides movie theatres. Gas stations, 7-11 and other convenience stores, many grocery stores, you can still find some restaurants open, etc etc. Not sure why people suddenly care about employees working on holidays now. It's not a new concept.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
Because where I'm from those are the only stores that participate in Black Friday sales. The dollar store and bodega are both gonna be open, but they don't have the Black Friday sale thing going on and that's what I thought this thread was about.
You are correct, "forced" was a poor choice of words on my part. I should've said "pressured". In my experience (and admittedly, this is a while ago now) the employees that work the evening shift of the electronics department are expected to work the Black Friday sales hours. No, the managers are not putting guns to their heads. Yes some people are happy to get the extra hours/OT pay. But we all know that what the law says and the way those jobs actually work are two different things, and some people who want to get the day off to be with their fam aren't going to be able to.
I never considered data centers - I don't know much about them. But I wasn't really talking about things like emergency services and hospitals cuz I mean that's just an entirely different sphere. I don't think it's really a fair comparison to say that the teenager at Best Buy should have to work on Thanksgiving because the cop the fireman the EMT and the nurse all have to. I think the issue some people take with those stores opening on thanksgiving is that just a few years ago they used to close on thanksgiving. I think that no one cared when the stores would close at 10pm on Wednesday and open at 5am on Friday, but now that they are extending it to Thursday - which they previously hadn't done - people are calling foul.
As far as bars and restaurants go - i totally agree. that's why I asked why no one cares that movie theatres are open when they're upset about Best Buy et al. In my personal experience, a lot of people do not really give a shit about Thanksgiving. some bars and restaurants will close and others will be open and do a special thanksgiving meal service. But for most places it's just business as usual. Again I think it just comes down to expectations. In the hospitality/food service industry you just know that holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas are work days, cuz they always have been. Whereas for someone working in like Target the store used to close on Thanksgiving and it still closes on Christmas so it's just the change that's upsetting people.
I do stand by my statement though. I definitely wouldn't say I have even the slightest "outrage" about it - I just think it is stupid and it sucks for those people that work at those places.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
Well I just looked it up and apparently the US has NO federal laws related to stat holiday overtime pay or any holidays or vacations whatsoever as far as I can tell. Wow. Whatcha doing, friends to the South? Why do Americans seem so content to put up such things? I don't get it.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Walmart does pay extra on holidays (according to the internet) but employees report they get their hours cut in the weeks leading up to holidays so Walmart ends up with barely any extra cost in wages. This is the same company that ensures most employees dont exceed 34 hours a week so they don't have to call them full time and pay extra benefits. So while I am sure there are some who don't mind working not all want to. And they are told work or lose your job as they are deemed expendable labor. This is also about preserving the holiday. We should be grateful for our veterans every day but we mostly do not show it. At least we have veterans day to reserve time to give them respect they earned. Thanksgiving is a special day that should be preserved as well. Thanksgiving will soon have some generic santa like person in the shape of a dollar bill and the thought of why we take time off will be lost.
Tom Brady & Donald Trump, BFF's Fuckus rules all Rob Seattle
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
Well I just looked it up and apparently the US has NO federal laws related to stat holiday overtime pay or any holidays or vacations whatsoever as far as I can tell. Wow. Whatcha doing, friends to the South? Why do Americans seem so content to put up such things? I don't get it.
PJS, buddy, you say things like this pretty regularly and I gotta admit it irks me. It's like asking the abused wife why she doesn't just leave him. The question itself is ignorant of how pervasive the issue goes in this country. We aren't content to put up with shit like this, or our shitty healthcare system, or our shitty school systems, but there's little to nothing that regular people can do. Unions are not what they used to be. Lots of places aren't even allowed to unionize. Low wage labor like retail stores employees are easier to replace since that's where the unemployment is highest. Remember the story about the Amazon factory workers that don't even work for Amazon, they work for a temp agency? It's taking advantage of high unemployment among the low skilled labor market. Thats what capitalism does. Our shitty school systems make sure that we are too dumb to know how politics works so even the people who are eligible to vote, don't. Those who are affected most by shitty policies like the lack of federal law you are talking about are too busy trying to keep their heads above water to do all the research to figure out who would help them. Those who aren't affected don't give a shit cuz it doesn't involve them, so they focus on stuff that matters more to them personally.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
Well I just looked it up and apparently the US has NO federal laws related to stat holiday overtime pay or any holidays or vacations whatsoever as far as I can tell. Wow. Whatcha doing, friends to the South? Why do Americans seem so content to put up such things? I don't get it.
PJS, buddy, you say things like this pretty regularly and I gotta admit it irks me. It's like asking the abused wife why she doesn't just leave him. The question itself is ignorant of how pervasive the issue goes in this country. We aren't content to put up with shit like this, or our shitty healthcare system, or our shitty school systems, but there's little to nothing that regular people can do. Unions are not what they used to be. Lots of places aren't even allowed to unionize. Low wage labor like retail stores employees are easier to replace since that's where the unemployment is highest. Remember the story about the Amazon factory workers that don't even work for Amazon, they work for a temp agency? It's taking advantage of high unemployment among the low skilled labor market. Thats what capitalism does. Our shitty school systems make sure that we are too dumb to know how politics works so even the people who are eligible to vote, don't. Those who are affected most by shitty policies like the lack of federal law you are talking about are too busy trying to keep their heads above water to do all the research to figure out who would help them. Those who aren't affected don't give a shit cuz it doesn't involve them, so they focus on stuff that matters more to them personally.
There is plenty Americans could do. They could vote for Bernie Sanders, say. The unions could fight harder while the citizens actually get on board. They could protest in the streets. They could stage a people's revolution (yes, such things DO still happen in this world! All it takes is enough people who are fed up with the status quo). These are the kinds of things I have in mind when I say I don't understand why Americans put up with this shit. I'm talking about 1) voting against it, and 2) pro-actively fighting it in the very real sense of the word. What you just said simply says that Americans are cowed. Cowed by those in power, and, more than anything, cowed by apathy. It's a shame. And it is a sad sign of the times. I am sorry that saying these things irks you - I don't mean it as a personal insult.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
Well I just looked it up and apparently the US has NO federal laws related to stat holiday overtime pay or any holidays or vacations whatsoever as far as I can tell. Wow. Whatcha doing, friends to the South? Why do Americans seem so content to put up such things? I don't get it.
PJS, buddy, you say things like this pretty regularly and I gotta admit it irks me. It's like asking the abused wife why she doesn't just leave him. The question itself is ignorant of how pervasive the issue goes in this country. We aren't content to put up with shit like this, or our shitty healthcare system, or our shitty school systems, but there's little to nothing that regular people can do. Unions are not what they used to be. Lots of places aren't even allowed to unionize. Low wage labor like retail stores employees are easier to replace since that's where the unemployment is highest. Remember the story about the Amazon factory workers that don't even work for Amazon, they work for a temp agency? It's taking advantage of high unemployment among the low skilled labor market. Thats what capitalism does. Our shitty school systems make sure that we are too dumb to know how politics works so even the people who are eligible to vote, don't. Those who are affected most by shitty policies like the lack of federal law you are talking about are too busy trying to keep their heads above water to do all the research to figure out who would help them. Those who aren't affected don't give a shit cuz it doesn't involve them, so they focus on stuff that matters more to them personally.
There is plenty Americans could do. They could vote for Bernie Sanders, say. The unions could fight harder while the citizens actually get on board. They could protest in the streets. They could stage a people's revolution (yes, such things DO still happen in this world! All it takes is enough people who are fed up with the status quo). These are the kinds of things I have in mind when I say I don't understand why Americans put up with this shit. I'm talking about 1) voting against it, and 2) pro-actively fighting it in the very real sense of the word. What you just said simply says that Americans are cowed. Cowed by those in power, and, more than anything, cowed by apathy. It's a shame. And it is a sad sign of the times. I am sorry that saying these things irks you - I don't mean it as a personal insult.
I dont know what cowed means. But I just said exactly why they can't protest or try to unionize. These issues mostly affect poor people who have too much to lose by getting fired from their shitty retail job. A lot of jobs specifically state that employees aren't allowed to unionize. I dont know what the word is called, but just for an example my old job bought out a company to bring it under their umbrella right? So that company had union workers driving the trucks. So when my job bought the company they had to get those truck drivers to quit the union for a raise or else push them out by not giving them hours specifically so they didn't have to deal with the union. And that's not even a big box store that's a mid sized business. Nowadays the jobs that had gotten unionized before are considered middle class jobs. The low wage jobs of today have that shit prevented by putting in the employment contract. As far as Bernie goes, yea he sounds great but like I said a lot of people who are affected by this cannot vote. You can only vote if you are a citizen that has not been convicted. And we only hear about him because it's a presidential race. Anything from small local government (which would be where these things need to start) is not something people who have to work 2 jobs at 40 hours a week for $8/hour to support themselves and their kids are going to be able to learn about. I don't take it as a personal insult, I know you are good peeps and don't mean it badly, that's actually why it bugs me. Cuz if you were an idiot just shooting off at the mouth about how 'murica sucks, it's like who cares? you know? But it bugs me cuz you ain't dumb so I want you to understand that there's these reasons that are like permeated in the fabric of the american society that exists to keep little people down. That how our poor keep getting poorer while the rich get richer. It didn't help that OWS didn't do anything other than piss off the NYPD. But I mean that was the peak of Americans "trying" to do something about the situation and it went exactly nowhere. It's not that we don't care about whats going on it's just that we are kept busy and distracted specifically so we can't do anything about it, and those of us who can pay a little more attention see the attempts failing and get discouraged. It's a systemic, institutional plague. You have to think about it in the same way you think about racism or sexism - people talk about it on the person to person level but the other, even more dangerous side of it is the institutionalized , systemic practice.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
Well I just looked it up and apparently the US has NO federal laws related to stat holiday overtime pay or any holidays or vacations whatsoever as far as I can tell. Wow. Whatcha doing, friends to the South? Why do Americans seem so content to put up such things? I don't get it.
PJS, buddy, you say things like this pretty regularly and I gotta admit it irks me. It's like asking the abused wife why she doesn't just leave him. The question itself is ignorant of how pervasive the issue goes in this country. We aren't content to put up with shit like this, or our shitty healthcare system, or our shitty school systems, but there's little to nothing that regular people can do. Unions are not what they used to be. Lots of places aren't even allowed to unionize. Low wage labor like retail stores employees are easier to replace since that's where the unemployment is highest. Remember the story about the Amazon factory workers that don't even work for Amazon, they work for a temp agency? It's taking advantage of high unemployment among the low skilled labor market. Thats what capitalism does. Our shitty school systems make sure that we are too dumb to know how politics works so even the people who are eligible to vote, don't. Those who are affected most by shitty policies like the lack of federal law you are talking about are too busy trying to keep their heads above water to do all the research to figure out who would help them. Those who aren't affected don't give a shit cuz it doesn't involve them, so they focus on stuff that matters more to them personally.
There is plenty Americans could do. They could vote for Bernie Sanders, say. The unions could fight harder while the citizens actually get on board. They could protest in the streets. They could stage a people's revolution (yes, such things DO still happen in this world! All it takes is enough people who are fed up with the status quo). These are the kinds of things I have in mind when I say I don't understand why Americans put up with this shit. I'm talking about 1) voting against it, and 2) pro-actively fighting it in the very real sense of the word. What you just said simply says that Americans are cowed. Cowed by those in power, and, more than anything, cowed by apathy. It's a shame. And it is a sad sign of the times. I am sorry that saying these things irks you - I don't mean it as a personal insult.
I don't think that getting time and a half once a month is something of a major federal political platform to put as your top priority, though. just my $0.02.
Made it a point to talk to my cashiers about Thanksgiving today at Starbucks and a big box place. Both people were excited to be scheduled because they get time and a half. Good for them. I figure we're heading out around 6pm tomorrow. Should be fun lol
Not sure why we care what other people do. There are people that work Thanksgiving already. Not a big deal. I wouldn't shop, but what do I care if someone else does? And if that means someone has to work, well, better than being unemployed. Much more important things to get up in arms about.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Stores are open thanksgiving, big deal. It s your choice whether or not to go. Almost a quarter of a million people will leave their families to attend three nfl games. To each their own.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half. That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
I don't really get this. Why reference big box stores specifically? And what does "forced" mean? Nobody is forced to work. You may have to agree to do so in order to keep your employment, but most states have at will employment. You can leave any time. I run a data center. We're be staffed 24 x 7 x 365. The Internet doesn't take a holiday. We're salaried, so there is no notion of time and a half.
Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
I think the "outrage" stems from it supposedly being thankful for what you've got, and stores/customers are celebrating the holiday doing the exact opposite: stocking up on more shit they don't need. essential services and entertainment are considered different in this context I gather.
I think that is no one's business other than the employees in the question. Just how much outrage is really being expressed by people?? Or are they mostly just happy for the opportunity to work time and a half? I don't personally buy into these very specific days. I figure that I would be more than happy to work for overtime wages on the actual holiday, and then have the Thanksgiving Day family thing on the following Sunday or something. I really don't see why people give such a huge shit about a day on a calendar (twiw, I'm also perfectly happy to reschedule Christmas and my birthday, if that works better for people).
well, the OP for one. and there is a movement down south among big box store employees to not allow stores to open TG day.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
Well I just looked it up and apparently the US has NO federal laws related to stat holiday overtime pay or any holidays or vacations whatsoever as far as I can tell. Wow. Whatcha doing, friends to the South? Why do Americans seem so content to put up such things? I don't get it.
PJS, buddy, you say things like this pretty regularly and I gotta admit it irks me. It's like asking the abused wife why she doesn't just leave him. The question itself is ignorant of how pervasive the issue goes in this country. We aren't content to put up with shit like this, or our shitty healthcare system, or our shitty school systems, but there's little to nothing that regular people can do. Unions are not what they used to be. Lots of places aren't even allowed to unionize. Low wage labor like retail stores employees are easier to replace since that's where the unemployment is highest. Remember the story about the Amazon factory workers that don't even work for Amazon, they work for a temp agency? It's taking advantage of high unemployment among the low skilled labor market. Thats what capitalism does. Our shitty school systems make sure that we are too dumb to know how politics works so even the people who are eligible to vote, don't. Those who are affected most by shitty policies like the lack of federal law you are talking about are too busy trying to keep their heads above water to do all the research to figure out who would help them. Those who aren't affected don't give a shit cuz it doesn't involve them, so they focus on stuff that matters more to them personally.
There is plenty Americans could do. They could vote for Bernie Sanders, say. The unions could fight harder while the citizens actually get on board. They could protest in the streets. They could stage a people's revolution (yes, such things DO still happen in this world! All it takes is enough people who are fed up with the status quo). These are the kinds of things I have in mind when I say I don't understand why Americans put up with this shit. I'm talking about 1) voting against it, and 2) pro-actively fighting it in the very real sense of the word. What you just said simply says that Americans are cowed. Cowed by those in power, and, more than anything, cowed by apathy. It's a shame. And it is a sad sign of the times. I am sorry that saying these things irks you - I don't mean it as a personal insult.
I don't think that getting time and a half once a month is something of a major federal political platform to put as your top priority, though. just my $0.02.
Oh no, of course not. I was talking generally here. I agree that people just not getting time and half on holidays does not warrant a citizens uprising, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,792
Stores are open thanksgiving, big deal. It s your choice whether or not to go. Almost a quarter of a million people will leave their families to attend three nfl games. To each their own.
They have nfl games on thanksgiving day?! That's nuts. Is it always in the same place?
Comments
Anyway, you're right, I almost forgot people claim to be upset about this because of the staff in the stores. Can't say I'm buying that, for the most part. I think most people are actually upset about it because they feel like their own sense of peace is violated by the fact that people are choosing to go out and fight over a DVD player on a holiday they value. I think people are actually offended because they feel like their traditions are being messed with. I'd be willing to bet that total strangers having to work on a holiday is completely besides the point for 98% of people.
I used to go around 10 or 11 meet up with friends, pick up coffee at Dunkin, and go out to various malls in long island where they have parking lots and a bunch of big box stores in one place. We'd occasionally buy something if it was a really good deal and accessible. Couple hard drives here and there, a monitor maybe. pajamas from old navy. Mostly it was for entertainment. The one year we went into a Walmart it was absolute carnage. The place looked like it had been looted. But it was different, we went out at night and then got breakfast in tree morning before going home. We weren't involved in the craziness nor were we skipping out on "family time" since it was at night and none of us had big family thanksgiving dinners like you hear about people doing on tv.
I don't think the big box stores should be open on thanksgiving day. And yes, it is because don't think people should be forced to work even if it is at time and a half.
That said, if Amazon puts cat food on sale on thanksgiving day I'm ordering it.
Another side of this, movie theatres are open on thanksgiving. Why is no one upset about that?
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If you work in retail it might suck to have to work Thanksgiving night but thats the nature of retail in America. I do prefer it starting on Friday tho. More fun
Everyday should be a day of giving thanks for what we have, not just some day in November that we mostly get off work.
If there are sales, people will shop. If people don't want to work, then requested off.
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Plenty of people work most/all holidays - broadcasters, journalists, police, fire, emt, data centers, hospitals and healthcare clinics, retailers, restaurants, theaters, bars, electricians, plumbers, Christmas Tree lots, etc... I guess I don't get the outrage against select retailers. If someone wants to spend the holiday with their family, then do it! If someone wants to shop (perhaps they don't have a family nearby or at least one they enjoy spending time with), then shop 'til you drop.
www.headstonesband.com
Either people are thankful or not. Whatever. Either people want to shop on Thanksgiving or not. I am not sure why in the world retailers decided that special sales should occur on national and/or international holidays, but whatever the reason, they aren't putting guns to our heads and forcing us to shop. This is just a case of the general public being brainwashed by the entities that keep the capitalist machine running. So basically, the public simply needs to pull its collective head out of its collective ass, and all of this would go away. If it chooses to keep being the collective capitalist lemming, then the retailers will keep having these sales. Simple as that.
As far as the employees are concerned.... I thought that point about movie theatres was a good one. There are TONS of non-essential businesses that remain open on Thanksgiving besides movie theatres. Gas stations, 7-11 and other convenience stores, many grocery stores, you can still find some restaurants open, etc etc. Not sure why people suddenly care about employees working on holidays now. It's not a new concept.
it disgusts me how materialistic some are, but it doesn't affect me directly, so whatever.
www.headstonesband.com
You are correct, "forced" was a poor choice of words on my part. I should've said "pressured". In my experience (and admittedly, this is a while ago now) the employees that work the evening shift of the electronics department are expected to work the Black Friday sales hours. No, the managers are not putting guns to their heads. Yes some people are happy to get the extra hours/OT pay. But we all know that what the law says and the way those jobs actually work are two different things, and some people who want to get the day off to be with their fam aren't going to be able to.
I never considered data centers - I don't know much about them. But I wasn't really talking about things like emergency services and hospitals cuz I mean that's just an entirely different sphere. I don't think it's really a fair comparison to say that the teenager at Best Buy should have to work on Thanksgiving because the cop the fireman the EMT and the nurse all have to. I think the issue some people take with those stores opening on thanksgiving is that just a few years ago they used to close on thanksgiving. I think that no one cared when the stores would close at 10pm on Wednesday and open at 5am on Friday, but now that they are extending it to Thursday - which they previously hadn't done - people are calling foul.
As far as bars and restaurants go - i totally agree. that's why I asked why no one cares that movie theatres are open when they're upset about Best Buy et al. In my personal experience, a lot of people do not really give a shit about Thanksgiving. some bars and restaurants will close and others will be open and do a special thanksgiving meal service. But for most places it's just business as usual. Again I think it just comes down to expectations. In the hospitality/food service industry you just know that holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas are work days, cuz they always have been. Whereas for someone working in like Target the store used to close on Thanksgiving and it still closes on Christmas so it's just the change that's upsetting people.
I do stand by my statement though. I definitely wouldn't say I have even the slightest "outrage" about it - I just think it is stupid and it sucks for those people that work at those places.
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Fuckus rules all
Rob
Seattle
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What you just said simply says that Americans are cowed. Cowed by those in power, and, more than anything, cowed by apathy. It's a shame. And it is a sad sign of the times. I am sorry that saying these things irks you - I don't mean it as a personal insult.
As far as Bernie goes, yea he sounds great but like I said a lot of people who are affected by this cannot vote. You can only vote if you are a citizen that has not been convicted. And we only hear about him because it's a presidential race. Anything from small local government (which would be where these things need to start) is not something people who have to work 2 jobs at 40 hours a week for $8/hour to support themselves and their kids are going to be able to learn about.
I don't take it as a personal insult, I know you are good peeps and don't mean it badly, that's actually why it bugs me. Cuz if you were an idiot just shooting off at the mouth about how 'murica sucks, it's like who cares? you know? But it bugs me cuz you ain't dumb so I want you to understand that there's these reasons that are like permeated in the fabric of the american society that exists to keep little people down. That how our poor keep getting poorer while the rich get richer. It didn't help that OWS didn't do anything other than piss off the NYPD. But I mean that was the peak of Americans "trying" to do something about the situation and it went exactly nowhere. It's not that we don't care about whats going on it's just that we are kept busy and distracted specifically so we can't do anything about it, and those of us who can pay a little more attention see the attempts failing and get discouraged. It's a systemic, institutional plague. You have to think about it in the same way you think about racism or sexism - people talk about it on the person to person level but the other, even more dangerous side of it is the institutionalized , systemic practice.
LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
I figure we're heading out around 6pm tomorrow. Should be fun lol
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