I see the Vatican is still very on point with their clever PR campaign.
Clever is a good word, and I agree. While the current Pope may be progressive, that is relative. He heads an organization that has institutionalized pedophilia, and represses women's reproductive rights. Its easy to promote tolerance with words but it would be great to see that organization emerge from the 18th century.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.
Oh please, we already know you're an atheist, first off. If you know anything about the Catholic religion, they will never make women equal or accept homosexuality. they're so seeped in tradition that things will never change on that front. NOTHING NEW.
What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.
Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.
I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!
For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.
Oh please, we already know you're an atheist, first off. If you know anything about the Catholic religion, they will never make women equal or accept homosexuality. they're so seeped in tradition that things will never change on that front. NOTHING NEW.
What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.
Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.
I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!
Me being an atheist has nothing to do with it. You seriously think that the Catholic Church will never have gender equality? Why? I know a LOT about the Catholic Church, and one thing that is undeniable is that it changes drastically in response to changing societies. It has changed its doctrines hundreds of times and rewrote the Bible dozens of times (and added to it, which is why it has its own version of the Bible). Anyway, sure sure, great that Bernie gets the publicity. That is good. I'm just sorry that the Vatican benefits from that publicity as well.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.
Oh please, we already know you're an atheist, first off. If you know anything about the Catholic religion, they will never make women equal or accept homosexuality. they're so seeped in tradition that things will never change on that front. NOTHING NEW.
What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.
Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.
I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!
Me being an atheist has nothing to do with it. You seriously think that the Catholic Church will never have gender equality? Why? I know a LOT about the Catholic Church, and one thing that is undeniable is that it changes drastically in response to changing societies. It has changed its doctrines hundreds of times and rewrote the Bible dozens of times (and added to it, which is why it has its own version of the Bible). Anyway, sure sure, great that Bernie gets the publicity. That is good. I'm just sorry that the Vatican benefits from that publicity as well.
You being an atheist has everything to do with your views on the Vatican.
I was a life-long Catholic, w/ 13 years of Catholic school. It is foolish to think that the Catholic Church will ever change their traditions. It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism. The only thing that's changed is that priests are seeing their fate after screwing (literally) so many people over the years. I left the church because the church is a disgrace.
But this new pope is finally what the church is needed, a little far too late. Read up, I suggest to you. But this isn't about religion.. Try reading the 2 links I posted. This is about leadership.
Is this about the Pope or the Vatican? I think the current Pope seems like a good dude, relatively speaking. I think the Vatican with its pomp and gaudy trimmings would be better suited to a Trump speech. And I think that church is the polar opposite of Sanders, so the only thing Sanders gets out of the speech is convincing some Catholics that they're safe voting for a secular progressive.
But for me it works against him. I will think less of Bernie for pandering to an exceptionally corrupt and bigoted institution for votes. If the KKK's grand wizard started preaching tolerance with no change to their policies and unfortunate dogmas would you support Bernie speaking to their org? The church just seems to be the antithesis of what Bernie is all about so I just don't understand why he's validating their harmful teachings.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Is this about the Pope or the Vatican? I think the current Pope seems like a good dude, relatively speaking. I think the Vatican with its pomp and gaudy trimmings would be better suited to a Trump speech. And I think that church is the polar opposite of Sanders, so the only thing Sanders gets out of the speech is convincing some Catholics that they're safe voting for a secular progressive.
But for me it works against him. I will think less of Bernie for pandering to an exceptionally corrupt and bigoted institution for votes. If the KKK's grand wizard started preaching tolerance with no change to their policies and unfortunate dogmas would you support Bernie speaking to their org? The church just seems to be the antithesis of what Bernie is all about so I just don't understand why he's validating their harmful teachings.
I guess it all depends on what he says to that audience. I don't see how him or anyone speaking to any audience validates them. He should be judged on the content of what he says, not who he is speaking to. If he changes what he says to kiss the vaticans ass well than that's a different story, but given the history of the man I would be very surprised.
And let's not think that any of the candidates wouldn't love this opportunity.
Most of the candidates would love the opportunity, no doubt. But most of the candidates endorse some form of bigotry and exclusion (certainly Trump and Cruz do). My bar for Bernie is a little higher that just not kissing ass. I'd like to see him call out the church and encourage reform. Much like Obama's speech recently in Cuba.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,074
The Vermont senator said they share the same views on inequality.
He's trying to inject this sense of morality into how we do economics... and we need that absolutely desperately." He will attend a conference on social, economic and environmental issues and give a speech on 15 April, his campaign said.
Mr Sanders and Pope Francis have similar views on fighting income inequality, he said, and he was "very moved" by the invitation from the Vatican. He said he and the pope disagree on women's rights and gay rights, but Pope Francis has "injected a moral consequence into the economy"...
Francis is the best Pope the world has had in some time. I'm all for having the Bernie Sanders become the best president we've had in quite some time as well. I'm not particularly religious but this is more about the issues and doing the right thing. I think it's great. Hopeful, inspiring and motivating. We can do this.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Is this about the Pope or the Vatican? I think the current Pope seems like a good dude, relatively speaking. I think the Vatican with its pomp and gaudy trimmings would be better suited to a Trump speech. And I think that church is the polar opposite of Sanders, so the only thing Sanders gets out of the speech is convincing some Catholics that they're safe voting for a secular progressive.
But for me it works against him. I will think less of Bernie for pandering to an exceptionally corrupt and bigoted institution for votes. If the KKK's grand wizard started preaching tolerance with no change to their policies and unfortunate dogmas would you support Bernie speaking to their org? The church just seems to be the antithesis of what Bernie is all about so I just don't understand why he's validating their harmful teachings.
For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.
Oh please, we already know you're an atheist, first off. If you know anything about the Catholic religion, they will never make women equal or accept homosexuality. they're so seeped in tradition that things will never change on that front. NOTHING NEW.
What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.
Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.
I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!
Me being an atheist has nothing to do with it. You seriously think that the Catholic Church will never have gender equality? Why? I know a LOT about the Catholic Church, and one thing that is undeniable is that it changes drastically in response to changing societies. It has changed its doctrines hundreds of times and rewrote the Bible dozens of times (and added to it, which is why it has its own version of the Bible). Anyway, sure sure, great that Bernie gets the publicity. That is good. I'm just sorry that the Vatican benefits from that publicity as well.
You being an atheist has everything to do with your views on the Vatican.
I was a life-long Catholic, w/ 13 years of Catholic school. It is foolish to think that the Catholic Church will ever change their traditions. It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism. The only thing that's changed is that priests are seeing their fate after screwing (literally) so many people over the years. I left the church because the church is a disgrace.
But this new pope is finally what the church is needed, a little far too late. Read up, I suggest to you. But this isn't about religion.. Try reading the 2 links I posted. This is about leadership.
WTF are you talking about?? Sorry, you are the one who knows not much about the history of the Catholic Church if you think that it hasn't changed in response to changing societies (usually for the worse, mind you). Anyway, the argument is really about whether or not the Church will be forced to change due to societal changes. I think yes, assuming the Church wants to continue to suck up all that money, and that is a pretty safe assumption. I think the inequality of women in particular will demand change soon enough. No, me being an Atheist has nothing to do with it. Perhaps me not being a Catholic does, since I haven't got those blinders on (perhaps that's your problem? Having learned about the Church from the Church? They aren't exactly transparent about a lot of shit).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
For sure. It is also still an enemy to female equality (women still have absolutely ZERO power in the Vatican or the church. They can be nuns, who are subservient to all male hierarchy, and that is basically it. They have these little worthless positions that mean nothing - something like abbots or whatever, and it's pure lip service. It's absolutely sick, this day and age), and gay rights. I hate the Vatican.
Oh please, we already know you're an atheist, first off. If you know anything about the Catholic religion, they will never make women equal or accept homosexuality. they're so seeped in tradition that things will never change on that front. NOTHING NEW.
What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.
Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.
I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!
Me being an atheist has nothing to do with it. You seriously think that the Catholic Church will never have gender equality? Why? I know a LOT about the Catholic Church, and one thing that is undeniable is that it changes drastically in response to changing societies. It has changed its doctrines hundreds of times and rewrote the Bible dozens of times (and added to it, which is why it has its own version of the Bible). Anyway, sure sure, great that Bernie gets the publicity. That is good. I'm just sorry that the Vatican benefits from that publicity as well.
You being an atheist has everything to do with your views on the Vatican.
I was a life-long Catholic, w/ 13 years of Catholic school. It is foolish to think that the Catholic Church will ever change their traditions. It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism. The only thing that's changed is that priests are seeing their fate after screwing (literally) so many people over the years. I left the church because the church is a disgrace.
But this new pope is finally what the church is needed, a little far too late. Read up, I suggest to you. But this isn't about religion.. Try reading the 2 links I posted. This is about leadership.
NONE? Second Vatican Council was inconsequential to you? Declaring that indiscriminate war on a civilian population was a crime against God and man himself means nothing to the faithful? It also repudiated Deicide (holding the Jews accountable for the death of Jesus) which was one of the several reasons for the persecution of Jews throughout history.
I'm surprised you didn't learn this in Catholic school. Maybe it was too controversial, as you know some traditionalists consider Vatican II heresy.
Ahh, the insults again. You people realize that the need to belittle says more about you than Anything else.
And no, Pj soul. The church will never Make women be equal. Keep believing what you want but that is true. The fact that you think the church evolves? That Says more than anything. Because you obviously don't know Catholicism. Don't get your panties in a bunch about it, it's the way it is.
Ahh, the insults again. You people realize that the need to belittle says more about you than Anything else.
And no, Pj soul. The church will never Make women be equal. Keep believing what you want but that is true. The fact that you think the church evolves? That Says more than anything. Because you obviously don't know Catholicism. Don't get your panties in a bunch about it, it's the way it is.
No one is insulting you. I went to Catholic school as well and we didn't learn Vatican II. I didn't know about that until college or something. Old liner priests were bitter about it.
But when you say things like this..."It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism.", you set yourself up. First two lessons about arguing... Never make it personal and always leave yourself an 'out', when faced with new information. You'll notice most people here don't make incontrovertible statements. You have a habit of it. When you do that, you have no place to go.
Ahh, the insults again. You people realize that the need to belittle says more about you than Anything else.
And no, Pj soul. The church will never Make women be equal. Keep believing what you want but that is true. The fact that you think the church evolves? That Says more than anything. Because you obviously don't know Catholicism. Don't get your panties in a bunch about it, it's the way it is.
No one is insulting you. I went to Catholic school as well and we didn't learn Vatican II. I didn't know about that until college or something. Old liner priests were bitter about it.
But when you say things like this..."It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism.", you set yourself up. First two lessons about arguing... Never make it personal and always leave yourself an 'out', when faced with new information. You'll notice most people here don't make incontrovertible statements. You have a habit of it. When you do that, you have no place to go.
But are we here simply to argue? Is this just an exercise in who wins Debate 101? Also, "Never make it personal" seems rather ironic here. Would it not be better to stay with the subject rather than just argue for the sake of arguing? Just a thought. Maybe I'm reading this wrong.
But, lest I be a hypocrite, on to the subject... Any religion as big as Catholicism is going to be seen differently depending on ones perspective. From my own experience and limited exposure, Catholicism is an exercise in tedium, inconsequential mythology and pointless ritual, but relatively harmless. What do I know? Not much. But to a friend of mine who, as a little girl, was raped by a priest, Catholicism is an unspeakable evil worse than hell. This kind of this has happened time and time again and some of that blame has to be put on the religious institution.
From my perspective, the Pope is just a rock star of sorts with a funny hat, but nevertheless he has a lot of influence in the world and the current one, Francis seems like one of the better Pope Dudes we've had. So I'm glad Bernie is spending some time with him. Our future president should be familiar with big names like Francis.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
russel, you've been a class act through your comments here, and there. And there too.
It's appreciated.
Your presence here is to play back up, huh? If your motives are to create more divisiveness, I'm sorry, not happening.
Not playing games and I already told Russell our arguments were over weeks ago when we cannot see eye to eye at all. No matter how much the need to push an argument.
This whole Catholicism debate? Clearly, a shift in getting off topic and obviously we are just dying to make another argument, for arguments sake. Maybe I'm thinking more modern times than they are. It doesn't matter, the initial story it was Bernie being invited to the Vatican to speak.
russel, you've been a class act through your comments here, and there. And there too.
It's appreciated.
Your presence here is to play back up, huh? If your motives are to create more divisiveness, I'm sorry, not happening.
Not playing games and I already told Russell our arguments were over weeks ago when we cannot see eye to eye at all. No matter how much the need to push an argument.
This whole Catholicism debate? Clearly, a shift in getting off topic and obviously we are just dying to make another argument, for arguments sake. Maybe I'm thinking more modern times than they are. It doesn't matter, the initial story it was Bernie being invited to the Vatican to speak.
But I'm sticking to the topic of Bernie.
Yes, I am a back-up player. Should've seen me when I toured with the Temptations...had some awesome moves.
You're all very sweet. I'm going to do what I'm going to do either way, but I really want to make the discussion analytical and steeped in reason. For a long time, that was what being Progressive was all about. I hope that continues.
Brianlux - You bring up a good question as to whether this is supposed to be an argument. But I used the word argument in its positive connotation, not a negative one. I think we are all generally on the AMT because this is where debate happens. At least I am. I like a good debate and will bring up points that I don't always agree with just to spark the conversation or offer a counterpoint. For example, you won't generally see me defending the Catholic Church. But if someone says something that is blatantly wrong or unnecessarily insults the millions of Catholics (for example) in this country, then I'll probably speak up. If we all were to agree, what fun would that be? That's just group think...
Russ I mean Matt: come for the debate as well. Now "unnecessarily insulting millions of Catholics" well ah what's the boundary. I say all Catholics need a boost in confidence and take life on as it's own. God and bible are rubbish. Cross the line?
As to the new pope, well refreshing and welcomed. Now think all religion is under siege from reality and equality so being forced to stop being dicks for survival. When cruising through central Tx search out "Christian" radio stations. Did so this past weekend and during " Christian News" (yeah can hardly type this) topic was how the church is under siege. It's dying folks. Slowly but dying.
Oh love debating religion what was the thread topic?
Oh Bernie the openly athiest front running presidential candidate meeting the pope! Sweet. Very political move but good with it.
Russ I mean Matt: come for the debate as well. Now "unnecessarily insulting millions of Catholics" well ah what's the boundary. I say all Catholics need a boost in confidence and take life on as it's own. God and bible are rubbish. Cross the line?
As to the new pope, well refreshing and welcomed. Now think all religion is under siege from reality and equality so being forced to stop being dicks for survival. When cruising through central Tx search out "Christian" radio stations. Did so this past weekend and during " Christian News" (yeah can hardly type this) topic was how the church is under siege. It's dying folks. Slowly but dying.
Oh love debating religion what was the thread topic?
Oh Bernie the openly athiest front running presidential candidate meeting the pope! Sweet. Very political move but good with it.
Religion is dying in the Western world. It's probably the natural progression. Over the last several thousand years when have gone from animism to polytheism to monotheism and now... towards spirituality and maybe atheism. It's a progression for sure. Here's the thing though, outside of the prejudicial piece (gay marriage, etc.) I kind of wish I was more of a believer in God. It seems like it would make dying something to look forward to, rather than the end of it all.
BTW, I don't think Bernie is an atheist. He said at a debate or town hall that he was very religious.
Hmm thought Bernie said he wasn't very religious. I may be wrong.
I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.
Hmm thought Bernie said he wasn't very religious. I may be wrong.
I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.
To me it's just a little sad to think you would never connect with your children or parents again... that would be the 'joy' of heaven or whatever afterlife there may be.
Hmm thought Bernie said he wasn't very religious. I may be wrong.
I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.
To me it's just a little sad to think you would never connect with your children or parents again... that would be the 'joy' of heaven or whatever afterlife there may be.
So I'll use an Ed quote. Think it was in Calgary and they were going to another city next day (forgot) and..........
"Ah ah ah so we're playing in ah ah Edmonton tomorrow so we ah ah need to take it easy tonight". Crowd boos to which Ed continues "ah ah well fuck them it's all about the present".
Love your family while your here. Stop working at the salt mines as soon as you can. Lead a full life. You die it's over. I'm at peace with this.
Ed: apologies if I missed quoted you. Hard to keep track of the ahs.
Comments
What IS new is Pope Francis breathing a refreshing acceptance and difference into the Vatican. One of love, equality in economics and class, environmental awareness, and actually pushing for a better world.
Don't turn this news story about Sanders into an unrelatable, 'religion' thread.
I highlighted (quoted) why he was invited to the Vatican. This has to do with how the world should be run (pro-people, pro-environment, pro-equality) and not about religion. He's a Jew after all!
You seriously think that the Catholic Church will never have gender equality? Why? I know a LOT about the Catholic Church, and one thing that is undeniable is that it changes drastically in response to changing societies. It has changed its doctrines hundreds of times and rewrote the Bible dozens of times (and added to it, which is why it has its own version of the Bible).
Anyway, sure sure, great that Bernie gets the publicity. That is good. I'm just sorry that the Vatican benefits from that publicity as well.
I was a life-long Catholic, w/ 13 years of Catholic school. It is foolish to think that the Catholic Church will ever change their traditions. It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism. The only thing that's changed is that priests are seeing their fate after screwing (literally) so many people over the years. I left the church because the church is a disgrace.
But this new pope is finally what the church is needed, a little far too late. Read up, I suggest to you. But this isn't about religion.. Try reading the 2 links I posted. This is about leadership.
But for me it works against him. I will think less of Bernie for pandering to an exceptionally corrupt and bigoted institution for votes. If the KKK's grand wizard started preaching tolerance with no change to their policies and unfortunate dogmas would you support Bernie speaking to their org? The church just seems to be the antithesis of what Bernie is all about so I just don't understand why he's validating their harmful teachings.
And let's not think that any of the candidates wouldn't love this opportunity.
Francis is the best Pope the world has had in some time. I'm all for having the Bernie Sanders become the best president we've had in quite some time as well. I'm not particularly religious but this is more about the issues and doing the right thing. I think it's great. Hopeful, inspiring and motivating. We can do this.
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/04/10/us/politics/wyoming-colorado-voting-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-ted-cruz-donald-trump.html?referer=https://www.google.com/
Nice!
No, me being an Atheist has nothing to do with it. Perhaps me not being a Catholic does, since I haven't got those blinders on (perhaps that's your problem? Having learned about the Church from the Church? They aren't exactly transparent about a lot of shit).
I'm surprised you didn't learn this in Catholic school. Maybe it was too controversial, as you know some traditionalists consider Vatican II heresy.
And no, Pj soul. The church will never Make women be equal. Keep believing what you want but that is true. The fact that you think the church evolves? That Says more than anything. Because you obviously don't know Catholicism. Don't get your panties in a bunch about it, it's the way it is.
http://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/watch/joe-dem-primary-system-rigged-against-voters-663318083925?cid=playlist=480866&cid=sm_fb_mojoe
But when you say things like this..."It has changed NONE in response to changing societies, you would know that if you know anything about Catholicism.", you set yourself up. First two lessons about arguing... Never make it personal and always leave yourself an 'out', when faced with new information. You'll notice most people here don't make incontrovertible statements. You have a habit of it. When you do that, you have no place to go.
It's appreciated.
But, lest I be a hypocrite, on to the subject... Any religion as big as Catholicism is going to be seen differently depending on ones perspective. From my own experience and limited exposure, Catholicism is an exercise in tedium, inconsequential mythology and pointless ritual, but relatively harmless. What do I know? Not much. But to a friend of mine who, as a little girl, was raped by a priest, Catholicism is an unspeakable evil worse than hell. This kind of this has happened time and time again and some of that blame has to be put on the religious institution.
From my perspective, the Pope is just a rock star of sorts with a funny hat, but nevertheless he has a lot of influence in the world and the current one, Francis seems like one of the better Pope Dudes we've had. So I'm glad Bernie is spending some time with him. Our future president should be familiar with big names like Francis.
Not playing games and I already told Russell our arguments were over weeks ago when we cannot see eye to eye at all. No matter how much the need to push an argument.
This whole Catholicism debate? Clearly, a shift in getting off topic and obviously we are just dying to make another argument, for arguments sake. Maybe I'm thinking more modern times than they are. It doesn't matter, the initial story it was Bernie being invited to the Vatican to speak.
But I'm sticking to the topic of Bernie.
And divisiveness, woohoo!
Really, this is ridiculous.
Jeesh! Wasn't even "divisive", it was actually positive. Read it and move on, no?
Brianlux - You bring up a good question as to whether this is supposed to be an argument. But I used the word argument in its positive connotation, not a negative one. I think we are all generally on the AMT because this is where debate happens. At least I am. I like a good debate and will bring up points that I don't always agree with just to spark the conversation or offer a counterpoint. For example, you won't generally see me defending the Catholic Church. But if someone says something that is blatantly wrong or unnecessarily insults the millions of Catholics (for example) in this country, then I'll probably speak up. If we all were to agree, what fun would that be? That's just group think...
-Matt
As to the new pope, well refreshing and welcomed. Now think all religion is under siege from reality and equality so being forced to stop being dicks for survival. When cruising through central Tx search out "Christian" radio stations. Did so this past weekend and during " Christian News" (yeah can hardly type this) topic was how the church is under siege. It's dying folks. Slowly but dying.
Oh love debating religion what was the thread topic?
Oh Bernie the openly athiest front running presidential candidate meeting the pope! Sweet. Very political move but good with it.
BTW, I don't think Bernie is an atheist. He said at a debate or town hall that he was very religious.
I'm good with not needing anything when I die. Just enjoy this time I hAve yet treat all as I want to be treated. And yes if I have a belief that is odd or nonsensically okay with people telling me.
"Ah ah ah so we're playing in ah ah Edmonton tomorrow so we ah ah need to take it easy tonight". Crowd boos to which Ed continues "ah ah well fuck them it's all about the present".
Love your family while your here. Stop working at the salt mines as soon as you can. Lead a full life. You die it's over. I'm at peace with this.
Ed: apologies if I missed quoted you. Hard to keep track of the ahs.