Bernie Sanders for President

dignin

This was a nice breakdown. No matter what happens Bernie and his supporters can hang their heads high.


Despite The Math, Bernie Sanders Has Already Won

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/27/472056754/despite-the-math-bernie-sanders-has-already-won?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160327

Free

dignin said:

This was a nice breakdown. No matter what happens Bernie and his supporters can hang their heads high.


Despite The Math, Bernie Sanders Has Already Won

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/27/472056754/despite-the-math-bernie-sanders-has-already-won?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160327

Love the title.

brianlux

Free said:

dignin said:

This was a nice breakdown. No matter what happens Bernie and his supporters can hang their heads high.


Despite The Math, Bernie Sanders Has Already Won

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/27/472056754/despite-the-math-bernie-sanders-has-already-won?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20160327

Love the title.

+ one.

Free

Sanders calls for debate in NY with Clinton prior to NY primaries. Clinton doesn't want to, Cries about being victim.

New York is a big state. A place both Democratic candidates have called home. Wall Street is there. One of the epicenter's of the anti-fracking movement in the United States. Let's hear the debate.

Clinton campaign: Future debates depend upon Sanders' tone

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-debates-221292#ixzz44E08KwMH

Hillary Clinton's chief campaign strategist laid into Bernie Sanders' camp on Monday for its insistence upon a debate before the April 19 primary in New York, remarking that the Vermont senator has reneged on his promise to avoid running a negative campaign and therefore does not get to dictate the terms of any future debates.
Appearing on CNN, Joel Benenson was asked about comments from the Sanders campaign over the weekend calling for another debate before the New York primary, though he said he did not see that as the most notable story out of the weekend. Instead, he referred to a Washington Post story in which Sanders' campaign discussed possible efforts to sharpen rhetoric against the former secretary of state. "They’re talking about running harsher negatives now," Benenson said, responding that he was not distracting from the issue but explaining the campaign's stance.
“Because I think the real question is what kind of campaign is Sen. Sanders going to run going forward," Benenson remarked. "He pumped $4 million in the weekend before March 15, and he lost all five states on March 15. They spent about $4 million running negative ads.”
“This is a man who said he’d never run a negative ad ever. He’s now running them, they’re now planning to run more," he continued. "Let’s see the tone of the campaign he wants to run before we get to any other questions.”
CNN's Kate Bolduan then inquired why the campaign would not agree to debate in New York despite agreeing in January to more debates. Benenson responded, “Because we agreed to debates up to a certain point. We’re now out campaigning in these states.”
"What's the risk?" Bolduan asked.
“There’s no risk. She’s done very well in the debates. The debates have been very good, but Sen. Sanders doesn’t get to decide when we debate, particularly when he’s running a very negative campaign against us. Let’s see if he goes back to the kind of tone he said he was going to set early on. If he does that, then we’ll talk about debates," Benenson said.
"So no chance of a New York debate?" Bolduan pressed.
“I didn’t say that," Benenson said. "I said we’re going to see what kind of tone he sets."

mrussel1

^ Sanders calls for debate in NY with Clinton prior to NY primaries. Clinton doesn't want to, Cries about being victim.

I assume this is your assessment? I certainly don't see it anywhere in this article.

lolobugg

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

PJfanwillneverleave1

lolobugg said:

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

Wait until Bernie is gone and we see what Trump will do with her.
This is going to be fun to watch.

mrussel1

lolobugg said:

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

He launched campaign ads in Illinois, right before the primary, sharply critical of Rahm and tying him to Clinton (as if he wasn't Obama's Chief of staff). One of those ads was about Laquan McDonald which is a very raw subject (rightfully). Now why would he attack the mayor of Chicago during primary week? Is he preparing for a mayoral campaign? That was dirty politics in a primary season.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/bernie-sanders-rahm-emanuel-chicago-campaign-ads/

lolobugg

sorry, my quote function isn't working....
I don't see what is dirty about calling out Emanuel... unfortunately he threw his support behind Hillary a long time ago. maybe she should've done a better job distancing her self from this corrupt mayor. Bernie is merely attacking the do-nothing establishment like he does in every other state.

BrokenGlass

mrussel1 said:

lolobugg said:

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

He launched campaign ads in Illinois, right before the primary, sharply critical of Rahm and tying him to Clinton (as if he wasn't Obama's Chief of staff). One of those ads was about Laquan McDonald which is a very raw subject (rightfully). Now why would he attack the mayor of Chicago during primary week? Is he preparing for a mayoral campaign? That was dirty politics in a primary season.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/11/politics/bernie-sanders-rahm-emanuel-chicago-campaign-ads/

Wait, you're calling this "dirty politics"? "Tying him to Clinton"? Rahm Emmanuel endorsed Hillary in freaking 2014, before she even officially announced her candidacy. He is the person ultimately responsible for the actions of the Chicago police, including the Laquan McDonald murder. Bernie's ad included many African-American Chicagoans stating why they supported Bernie and oppose Rahm. I know this may come as a surprise to Hillary supporters, but stating the facts is not "dirty politics".
Now. repeatedly lying about your opponent's positions on major issues, i.e., repeatedly lying by saying Bernie wants to repeal the Affordable Care Act; repeatedly lying that Bernie didn't support the auto manufacturer's bailout; repeatedly lying that Bernie supported militia groups on the U.S./Mexican border; saying that Bernie was nowhere to be found when you were attempting to pass health care reforms as First Lady (disproven by a video of him standing literally right behind you at a news conference and by a photo you sent him personally signed thanking him for his help....I could go on and on, but that, my friend, is "dirty politics" defined, and the Clintons have been experts at it for years. And, oh yeah, how about releasing those transcripts?

Free

mrussel1 said:

^ Sanders calls for debate in NY with Clinton prior to NY primaries. Clinton doesn't want to, Cries about being victim.

I assume this is your assessment? I certainly don't see it anywhere in this article.

Yes, it is and what Lolobug says here is perfect in response:

lolobugg said:

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

mrussel1

lolobugg said:

sorry, my quote function isn't working....
I don't see what is dirty about calling out Emanuel... unfortunately he threw his support behind Hillary a long time ago. maybe she should've done a better job distancing her self from this corrupt mayor. Bernie is merely attacking the do-nothing establishment like he does in every other state.

It's dirty because HRC has nothing to do with his mayoral time in Chicago. Those are completely unconnected events. He worked in the Clinton WH 16+ years ago. He worked in Obama's WH far more recently. Is he running attack ads against Obama next? That's dirty politics and guilt by association. HRC is going to be connected to every single Democrat you can line up. That's what happens when you've been in the party for 50 years.

What Bernie was trying to do is create correlation between the Laquan murder and HRC, thereby trying to turn the African-American vote against HRC. That's not negative politics to you?

mrussel1

Free said:

mrussel1 said:

^ Sanders calls for debate in NY with Clinton prior to NY primaries. Clinton doesn't want to, Cries about being victim.

I assume this is your assessment? I certainly don't see it anywhere in this article.

Yes, it is and what Lolobug says here is perfect in response:

lolobugg said:

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

Again.. how do you connect Rahm's mayoral record with HRC? Will you be using his record as mayor when you are evaluating Obama's presidency in 5 years? Give me a fucking break.

brianlux

This is what Bernie has to say today via the emails I subscribe to:

"When our campaign first set foot in Wisconsin this past summer, we got a very warm
welcome from the people of Wisconsin. I spoke to more than 10,000 people in Madison
about our corrupt political system, our broken economy, and how our political
revolution can take back our country from people like the Koch Brothers in the
billionaire class.

Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker and the Republican Party weren't as happy to see me.
Governor Walker, who has been helped throughout his career by the Koch Brothers,
issued statements against us, and the GOP even put up billboards calling me an
"extremist."

Well, let's talk about extremism. Scott Walker has attacked the minimum wage, gutted
unions, made it much harder to vote, and restricted access to abortion. That is
extremism.

I can think of no better place for our political revolution to continue its momentum
than in Wisconsin. The latest poll has us down just a few points, and I know that if
we work together right now, we can pull off a huge victory.

ot only has Governor Walker been helped throughout his career by huge financial
support from the Koch Brothers, but he has enacted their ideology while in office.

When you deny the right of workers to come together in collective bargaining, that's
extremism.

When you tell a woman that she cannot control her own body, that's extremism.

When you give tax breaks to billionaires and refuse to raise the minimum wage,
that's extremism.

Our views, which represent the views of the vast majority of the American people,
are a little bit different. We believe that the time has come for the people of
Wisconsin and all over the country to create a movement that tells the billionaire
class: YOU CAN'T HAVE IT ALL!

And what we are saying to the Koch Brothers and Scott Walker is that this great
country belongs to everybody, and not just a handful of very wealthy people."

Hopefully Wisconsin will come through for Bernie. It's close but we can do it!

lolobugg

apologies again for my quote not working but in reference to what you are saying above MRussel1... sounds like Hillary supporters have a guilty conscience if that is what you get out of the ad. Bernie has called out incompetent mayors in Flint and many other cities. if he just happens to be someone the Clintons and other democrats trusted then.. I would say that they are a really poor judge of character. I am not a democrat. I am an independent and hold no loyalty whatsoever to any Democrats. I will call any of them out any and every day. and to echo what Broken Glass said... the Clintons are the best at "dirty politics"...

EDIT: pandering is not a word I want to use and apologizing for misusing it in a political context.
what I wanted to say was lying to people to get their votes at all costs. that is what politicians do and why I respect Bernie amongst the other candidates.

mrussel1

lolobugg said:

apologies again for my quote not working but in reference to what you are saying above MRussel1... sounds like Hillary supporters have a guilty conscience if that is what you get out of the ad. Bernie has called out incompetent mayors in Flint and many other cities. if he just happens to be someone the Clintons and other democrats trusted then.. I would say that they are a really poor judge of character. I am not a democrat. I am an independent and hold no loyalty whatsoever to any Democrats. I will call any of them out any and every day. and to echo what Broken Glass said... the Clintons are the best at "dirty politics"...

EDIT: pandering is not a word I want to use and apologizing for misusing it in a political context.
what I wanted to say was lying to people to get their votes at all costs. that is what politicians do and why I respect Bernie amongst the other candidates.

You sure that he criticized the African-American mayor of Flint? I'd like to see that ad please. I know he criticized the GOP governor as did HRC. Send me those criticisms. Please.

HRC supporters feeling guilty about Rahm? That's a bizarre statement. All ads have a purpose. He didn't spend money in one of the top 5 media markets in the country without a point, the point being to earn votes. If you don't understand how this is hypocritical to his statements then:

1. You didn't watch the ad
2. You are not familiar with a what a negative political ad is
3. You are a political neophyte or operating with intentional blinders

brianlux

lolobugg said:

apologies again for my quote not working but in reference to what you are saying above MRussel1... sounds like Hillary supporters have a guilty conscience if that is what you get out of the ad. Bernie has called out incompetent mayors in Flint and many other cities. if he just happens to be someone the Clintons and other democrats trusted then.. I would say that they are a really poor judge of character. I am not a democrat. I am an independent and hold no loyalty whatsoever to any Democrats. I will call any of them out any and every day. and to echo what Broken Glass said... the Clintons are the best at "dirty politics"...

EDIT: pandering is not a word I want to use and apologizing for misusing it in a political context.
what I wanted to say was lying to people to get their votes at all costs. that is what politicians do and why I respect Bernie amongst the other candidates.

Bernie rises above partisan politics in a number of ways.

I was talking to a woman the other day who is registered as Republican. She said "I don't agree with Bernie's politics but he seems like an honest, and fair man, not corrupt, someone I would like as a friend and a neighbor." This is not a small point. Being honest and fair and not corrupt are some of the best qualities we could ask for in a politician. Another strong point which we don't see elsewhere is Bernie's emphasis on getting involved. He has said that "working class people and young people are beginning to understand that it is imperative that they participate in the political process". You don't hear that from any of the other candidates.

lolobugg

ok. I meant governor of Michigan.. you have me on that.
You are the one saying he is tying Rahm to Hillary so if you are extracting that from the ad you must have a guilty conscience about your candidates association with Mayor Emanuel.
1. I saw the ad
2. I have been voting since 1996 so I have seen negative ads (this was def not an attack ad on Clinton, you really think if he wanted to go negative he couldn't destroy HRC with all her flip flopping)
3. no intentional blinders, sir, but you may call me a political neophyte if you wish.
but I know enough about HRC (as you call her) to know that she is a typical politician. I let my millennial friends watch her and they have no pre-conceived notion of her- good or bad.
they all call "bullshit" on her performance at every debate. she can't even hide it very well. at least Bill was slick.

mrussel1

brianlux said:

lolobugg said:

apologies again for my quote not working but in reference to what you are saying above MRussel1... sounds like Hillary supporters have a guilty conscience if that is what you get out of the ad. Bernie has called out incompetent mayors in Flint and many other cities. if he just happens to be someone the Clintons and other democrats trusted then.. I would say that they are a really poor judge of character. I am not a democrat. I am an independent and hold no loyalty whatsoever to any Democrats. I will call any of them out any and every day. and to echo what Broken Glass said... the Clintons are the best at "dirty politics"...

EDIT: pandering is not a word I want to use and apologizing for misusing it in a political context.
what I wanted to say was lying to people to get their votes at all costs. that is what politicians do and why I respect Bernie amongst the other candidates.

Bernie rises above partisan politics in a number of ways.

I was talking to a woman the other day who is registered as Republican. She said "I don't agree with Bernie's politics but he seems like an honest, and fair man, not corrupt, someone I would like as a friend and a neighbor." This is not a small point. Being honest and fair and not corrupt are some of the best qualities we could ask for in a politician. Another strong point which we don't see elsewhere is Bernie's emphasis on getting involved. He has said that "working class people and young people are beginning to understand that it is imperative that they participate in the political process". You don't hear that from any of the other candidates.

All things to be admired, for sure.

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

lolobugg said:

apologies again for my quote not working but in reference to what you are saying above MRussel1... sounds like Hillary supporters have a guilty conscience if that is what you get out of the ad. Bernie has called out incompetent mayors in Flint and many other cities. if he just happens to be someone the Clintons and other democrats trusted then.. I would say that they are a really poor judge of character. I am not a democrat. I am an independent and hold no loyalty whatsoever to any Democrats. I will call any of them out any and every day. and to echo what Broken Glass said... the Clintons are the best at "dirty politics"...

EDIT: pandering is not a word I want to use and apologizing for misusing it in a political context.
what I wanted to say was lying to people to get their votes at all costs. that is what politicians do and why I respect Bernie amongst the other candidates.

Bernie rises above partisan politics in a number of ways.

I was talking to a woman the other day who is registered as Republican. She said "I don't agree with Bernie's politics but he seems like an honest, and fair man, not corrupt, someone I would like as a friend and a neighbor." This is not a small point. Being honest and fair and not corrupt are some of the best qualities we could ask for in a politician. Another strong point which we don't see elsewhere is Bernie's emphasis on getting involved. He has said that "working class people and young people are beginning to understand that it is imperative that they participate in the political process". You don't hear that from any of the other candidates.

All things to be admired, for sure.

So maybe consider becoming a Bernie supporter? We would welcome your support and added involvement in the struggle to weed corruption from politics!

Free

mrussel1 said:

Free said:

mrussel1 said:

^ Sanders calls for debate in NY with Clinton prior to NY primaries. Clinton doesn't want to, Cries about being victim.

I assume this is your assessment? I certainly don't see it anywhere in this article.

Yes, it is and what Lolobug says here is perfect in response:

lolobugg said:

Since when is calling out Clinton's record = to a negative campaign???
Jeez, Hillary fans... how do you think you are going to handle the RNC smear team if you can't handle the truth from Bernie???

Again.. how do you connect Rahm's mayoral record with HRC? Will you be using his record as mayor when you are evaluating Obama's presidency in 5 years? Give me a fucking break.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/03/14/in-chicago-hillary-clintons-ties-to-rahm-emanuel-are-targeted/

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/262207-clinton-expresses-confidence-in-chicago-mayor

Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Clinton says she still has confidence in Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, amid controversy surrounding the delayed release of a video that showed Chicago police shooting a black teenager last year.

Clinton responded “I do” when asked whether she stood by Emanuel, who is a veteran of both the Obama and Clinton administrations...

Free

Is this the commercial you're talking about? I think it's pretty good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIVypM6zcKQ

mrussel1

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

brianlux said:

lolobugg said:

apologies again for my quote not working but in reference to what you are saying above MRussel1... sounds like Hillary supporters have a guilty conscience if that is what you get out of the ad. Bernie has called out incompetent mayors in Flint and many other cities. if he just happens to be someone the Clintons and other democrats trusted then.. I would say that they are a really poor judge of character. I am not a democrat. I am an independent and hold no loyalty whatsoever to any Democrats. I will call any of them out any and every day. and to echo what Broken Glass said... the Clintons are the best at "dirty politics"...

EDIT: pandering is not a word I want to use and apologizing for misusing it in a political context.
what I wanted to say was lying to people to get their votes at all costs. that is what politicians do and why I respect Bernie amongst the other candidates.

Bernie rises above partisan politics in a number of ways.

I was talking to a woman the other day who is registered as Republican. She said "I don't agree with Bernie's politics but he seems like an honest, and fair man, not corrupt, someone I would like as a friend and a neighbor." This is not a small point. Being honest and fair and not corrupt are some of the best qualities we could ask for in a politician. Another strong point which we don't see elsewhere is Bernie's emphasis on getting involved. He has said that "working class people and young people are beginning to understand that it is imperative that they participate in the political process". You don't hear that from any of the other candidates.

All things to be admired, for sure.

So maybe consider becoming a Bernie supporter? We would welcome your support and added involvement in the struggle to weed corruption from politics!

Here's the thing.. I'm fairly ambivalent about the Dem nomination right now. Most here probably think I don't like Bernie, but that's not the case. I'm mostly a political observer who gets very annoyed with people who search out information that only confirms their own beliefs. And I've seen a lot of that here so I end up arguing a side for which I don't exactly agree, but for more grounded reasons.

To your question, I'm all for CU being overturned. I absolutely disagree with it. But it can only be done with a Constitutional Amendment. Like most of his proposals, they can only be achieved with a seismic liberal shift in this country. But we are not on the cusp of that. One thing I've learned, having been a voter in the Clinton and Bush years is that progressive reforms take time. They aren't seismic. Why do you think the DLC was formed to start? Democrats had been beaten senseless for 14 straight years. The liberal wing had been obliterated by the moderate 30% of the country.

mrussel1

And another thing... I'm in VA. I've already had my primary, so my support is irrelevant at this point. I can tell you that I will vote for the D, whoever it is.

lolobugg

I will too.
I don't like Hillary as a person but we can't afford to have another Republican in office at this time.
just wish the DNC would wake up and see that Bernie is the better candidate for the general election.

mrussel1

lolobugg said:

I will too.
I don't like Hillary as a person but we can't afford to have another Republican in office at this time.
just wish the DNC would wake up and see that Bernie is the better candidate for the general election.

Bernie has not been defined by the Right wing or the super PAC's. He and Kasich have high 'no opinion' numbers on them still. They are undefined. For whatever it's worth, both Hillary and Trump are very well defined. I don't think either of them have very much movement, either up or down, in a general election.

PJfanwillneverleave1

lolobugg said:

I will too.
I don't like Hillary as a person but we can't afford to have another Republican in office at this time.
just wish the DNC would wake up and see that Bernie is the better candidate for the general election.

He is the better candidate but he will not be the nominee.
Hilary against Trump is what will be left - Trump will win if Bernie is not the nominee.

mrussel1

Free said:

Is this the commercial you're talking about? I think it's pretty good.



"if you have a presidential candidate that supports someone like our mayor"... that is a negative ad. You may like it because you agree with it, but it's a negative ad. And that was my counter to your point above talking about "Hillary crying".

We have a president that support this mayor. Where's your outrage, Free? Is it that selective?

lolobugg

Bernie has not been defined by the Right wing or the super PAC's. He and Kasich have high 'no opinion' numbers on them still. They are undefined. For whatever it's worth, both Hillary and Trump are very well defined. I don't think either of them have very much movement, either up or down, in a general election.

Bernie has got nothing to hide. HRC has got all kinds of skeletons in her closet that the RNC is salivating over.

He is the better candidate but he will not be the nominee.
Hilary against Trump is what will be left - Trump will win if Bernie is not the nominee.

This is what I am afraid of. The party line Dems will get behind Bernie if he wins the nomination.
I can't say the same for the younger voters and Bernie supporters that are tired of the traditional politicians. there is NO enthusiasm for HRC outside of the people that were already planning on voting for her since 2008.

Free

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1dh78x0Pr1s