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Paris Attacks

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    I'd be paranoid too if I survived a massacre. He probably has PTSD

    Is he paranoid, is did a witness to the massacre legitimately see one of the shooters in the venue earlier in the day??? If the latter, then that is pretty important info, no?
    Who knows? I'd replay something like that over and over and over in my mind. Try to make sense of it all ...

    Have authorities ever said how men with machine guns were able to walk in and take position yet? What security was in place?
    I think they just said that no security was in place.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,904
    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    I'd be paranoid too if I survived a massacre. He probably has PTSD

    Is he paranoid, is did a witness to the massacre legitimately see one of the shooters in the venue earlier in the day??? If the latter, then that is pretty important info, no?
    Who knows? I'd replay something like that over and over and over in my mind. Try to make sense of it all ...

    Have authorities ever said how men with machine guns were able to walk in and take position yet? What security was in place?
    I think they just said that no security was in place.
    Still, they took position before opening fire. How did they walk into the joint with AKM machine guns, past ticket takers, vendors, ushers etc?
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,904
    The Bataclan claimed his remarks "grave and defamatory", but if there indeed was no security, WTF is grave and defamatory?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    edited May 2016
    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    I'd be paranoid too if I survived a massacre. He probably has PTSD

    Is he paranoid, is did a witness to the massacre legitimately see one of the shooters in the venue earlier in the day??? If the latter, then that is pretty important info, no?
    Who knows? I'd replay something like that over and over and over in my mind. Try to make sense of it all ...

    Have authorities ever said how men with machine guns were able to walk in and take position yet? What security was in place?
    I think they just said that no security was in place.
    Still, they took position before opening fire. How did they walk into the joint with AKM machine guns, past ticket takers, vendors, ushers etc?
    Good question. But I guess it can happen fast. I mean, just run in and run to where you want to be... would only take seconds in a place like that. And really, most people who see masked men run in with automatic weapons they aren't stepping up to intervene. They are hitting the floor or running away. But if a shooter was in there before the venue was even open, that is another thing altogether.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,904
    edited May 2016
    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    I'd be paranoid too if I survived a massacre. He probably has PTSD

    Is he paranoid, is did a witness to the massacre legitimately see one of the shooters in the venue earlier in the day??? If the latter, then that is pretty important info, no?
    Who knows? I'd replay something like that over and over and over in my mind. Try to make sense of it all ...

    Have authorities ever said how men with machine guns were able to walk in and take position yet? What security was in place?
    I think they just said that no security was in place.
    Still, they took position before opening fire. How did they walk into the joint with AKM machine guns, past ticket takers, vendors, ushers etc?
    Good question. But I guess it can happen fast. I mean, just run in and run to where you want to be... would only take seconds in a place like that. And really, most people who see masked men run in with automatic weapons they aren't stepping up to intervene. They are hitting the floor or running away. But if a shooter was in there before the venue was even open, that is another thing altogether.
    Wouldn't we have heard stories from terrified people in the lobby when they bum rushed the joint? I would expect a city like Paris to have security standards matching a city like NY.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    I'd be paranoid too if I survived a massacre. He probably has PTSD

    Is he paranoid, is did a witness to the massacre legitimately see one of the shooters in the venue earlier in the day??? If the latter, then that is pretty important info, no?
    Who knows? I'd replay something like that over and over and over in my mind. Try to make sense of it all ...

    Have authorities ever said how men with machine guns were able to walk in and take position yet? What security was in place?
    I think they just said that no security was in place.
    Still, they took position before opening fire. How did they walk into the joint with AKM machine guns, past ticket takers, vendors, ushers etc?
    Good question. But I guess it can happen fast. I mean, just run in and run to where you want to be... would only take seconds in a place like that. And really, most people who see masked men run in with automatic weapons they aren't stepping up to intervene. They are hitting the floor or running away. But if a shooter was in there before the venue was even open, that is another thing altogether.
    Wouldn't we have heard stories from terrified people in the lobby when they bum rushed the joint? I would expect a city like Paris to have security standards matching a city like NY.
    Well they murdered people in the lobby. Remember the merch guy was killed at the merch table? Lobby would have been mostly empty anyhow, since the show was going on at the time. They killed a lot of people... kind of lessens the number of witnesses. :frowning:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    Jason P said:

    I'd be paranoid too if I survived a massacre. He probably has PTSD

    Is he paranoid, is did a witness to the massacre legitimately see one of the shooters in the venue earlier in the day??? If the latter, then that is pretty important info, no?
    Who knows? I'd replay something like that over and over and over in my mind. Try to make sense of it all ...

    Have authorities ever said how men with machine guns were able to walk in and take position yet? What security was in place?
    I think they just said that no security was in place.
    Still, they took position before opening fire. How did they walk into the joint with AKM machine guns, past ticket takers, vendors, ushers etc?
    Good question. But I guess it can happen fast. I mean, just run in and run to where you want to be... would only take seconds in a place like that. And really, most people who see masked men run in with automatic weapons they aren't stepping up to intervene. They are hitting the floor or running away. But if a shooter was in there before the venue was even open, that is another thing altogether.
    Wouldn't we have heard stories from terrified people in the lobby when they bum rushed the joint? I would expect a city like Paris to have security standards matching a city like NY.
    Well they murdered people in the lobby. Remember the merch guy was killed at the merch table? Lobby would have been mostly empty anyhow, since the show was going on at the time. They killed a lot of people... kind of lessens the number of witnesses. :frowning:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 18,904
    PJ Soul ... you are having a case of the Trumps today!

    image
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    That is possibly the biggest insult of my life! :lol:

    (yeah, I dunno, I'm having trouble with the posting button today - keeps freezing)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Baile Átha CliathPosts: 2,682
    The situation in France has long been precarious with regard to cultural tensions, so I can see how his comments would be deemed unhelpful, if not downright inflammatory. Yes he went through a terrible experience but that does not free him from any responsibility for his subsequent words or actions. This may sound alarmist but there's a fine line between free speech and incitement to hatred
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083

    The situation in France has long been precarious with regard to cultural tensions, so I can see how his comments would be deemed unhelpful, if not downright inflammatory. Yes he went through a terrible experience but that does not free him from any responsibility for his subsequent words or actions. This may sound alarmist but there's a fine line between free speech and incitement to hatred

    There it is.... "The fine line between free speech and incitement to hatred".

    Let's just surrender our right to speech to the radical islamists shall we?

    Peace in our time!
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    edited May 2016
    TBH, unless i read an edited version of the statement, I don't even think his comments were particularly inflammatory, considering the source. I mean geez, cut the guy a break. He's been traumatized in a shooting massacre. I think he's earned a little elbow room here. I think it's a bit fucked that he's being blacklisted now.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:

    TBH, unless i read an edited version of the statement, I don't even think his comments were particularly inflammatory, considering the source. I mean geez, cut the guy a break. He's be traumatized in a shooting massacre. I think he's earned a little elbow room here. I think it's a bit fucked that he's being blacklisted now.

    I'm struggling here too. Either I've missed something or people are way too gawddamn sensitive.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 7,177

    PJ_Soul said:

    TBH, unless i read an edited version of the statement, I don't even think his comments were particularly inflammatory, considering the source. I mean geez, cut the guy a break. He's be traumatized in a shooting massacre. I think he's earned a little elbow room here. I think it's a bit fucked that he's being blacklisted now.

    I'm struggling here too. Either I've missed something or people are way too gawddamn sensitive.
    You didn't miss anything. People are too gawddamn sensitive. I think he showed restraint in his comments.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • jnimhaoileoinjnimhaoileoin Baile Átha CliathPosts: 2,682
    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
  • BS44325 said:

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
    You're not afraid to ruffle feathers are you?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083

    BS44325 said:

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
    You're not afraid to ruffle feathers are you?
    Definitely not. I take a pretty hard line on the right to speech...even when it offends me.
  • BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
    You're not afraid to ruffle feathers are you?
    Definitely not. I take a pretty hard line on the right to speech...even when it offends me.
    I think regardless of whatever conflict you have found yourself in over the years on this forum... I have to commend you on your ability to deal with the fallout you sometimes generate- exercising free speech- without emotion.

    Ruffling feathers is a good thing. It really is provided it's driven by remote levels of intelligence and not by obvious measures designed purposely to agitate.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
    You're not afraid to ruffle feathers are you?
    Definitely not. I take a pretty hard line on the right to speech...even when it offends me.
    I think regardless of whatever conflict you have found yourself in over the years on this forum... I have to commend you on your ability to deal with the fallout you sometimes generate- exercising free speech- without emotion.

    Ruffling feathers is a good thing. It really is provided it's driven by remote levels of intelligence and not by obvious measures designed purposely to agitate.
    Well I appreciate that and I really think on this issue (EODM being removed from festivals for Jesse Hughes' post-attack beliefs) the entire board should be in agreement. This is a music forum at root and protecting an artists right to speak is paramount. I disagree with PJ on so much politically but as I have always said I would fight to allow them to speak their views in any forum they wish. It is this freedom that ultimately sets us a part from so many parts of the world and when you infringe upon it even slightly then you are opening the door for far more dangerous events in the future.
  • BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
    You're not afraid to ruffle feathers are you?
    Definitely not. I take a pretty hard line on the right to speech...even when it offends me.
    I think regardless of whatever conflict you have found yourself in over the years on this forum... I have to commend you on your ability to deal with the fallout you sometimes generate- exercising free speech- without emotion.

    Ruffling feathers is a good thing. It really is provided it's driven by remote levels of intelligence and not by obvious measures designed purposely to agitate.
    Well I appreciate that and I really think on this issue (EODM being removed from festivals for Jesse Hughes' post-attack beliefs) the entire board should be in agreement. This is a music forum at root and protecting an artists right to speak is paramount. I disagree with PJ on so much politically but as I have always said I would fight to allow them to speak their views in any forum they wish. It is this freedom that ultimately sets us a part from so many parts of the world and when you infringe upon it even slightly then you are opening the door for far more dangerous events in the future.
    I have to admit to conforming at times: I sometimes bite my lip when I feel strongly about something... or I say something that won't 'ruffle feathers'. I'm not brutal, but I'm not great at voicing my convictions. Not that I think they're poor thoughts and best reserved for secrecy... more that I'm not willing to deal with the fallout from the widely accepted and valued opinion for lack of will or energy.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,279
    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    BS44325 said:

    As I've said, you need to take the particular situation into account. An understanding of French culture and politics would likely help, not to mention that we just generally have a different approach in Europe

    Historically the approach has been capitulation
    You're not afraid to ruffle feathers are you?
    Definitely not. I take a pretty hard line on the right to speech...even when it offends me.
    I think regardless of whatever conflict you have found yourself in over the years on this forum... I have to commend you on your ability to deal with the fallout you sometimes generate- exercising free speech- without emotion.

    Ruffling feathers is a good thing. It really is provided it's driven by remote levels of intelligence and not by obvious measures designed purposely to agitate.
    Well I appreciate that and I really think on this issue (EODM being removed from festivals for Jesse Hughes' post-attack beliefs) the entire board should be in agreement. This is a music forum at root and protecting an artists right to speak is paramount. I disagree with PJ on so much politically but as I have always said I would fight to allow them to speak their views in any forum they wish. It is this freedom that ultimately sets us a part from so many parts of the world and when you infringe upon it even slightly then you are opening the door for far more dangerous events in the future.
    I have to admit to conforming at times: I sometimes bite my lip when I feel strongly about something... or I say something that won't 'ruffle feathers'. I'm not brutal, but I'm not great at voicing my convictions. Not that I think they're poor thoughts and best reserved for secrecy... more that I'm not willing to deal with the fallout from the widely accepted and valued opinion for lack of will or energy.
    I am that way at times as well...there is a time and a few place for everything. I don't pull punches on these boards because otherwise what's the point. However, if you met me at a pj show or pj pre-drink you wouldn't get a peep of politics out of me. That isn't out of fear from fallout but out of knowing when it's time to battle vs when it's time to just party.
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083
    PJ_Soul said:

    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.

    Totally but there is a way to have these disagreements without moving into banned territory. There are some people I debated with heavily over the last couple of years who apparently are now banned. It's almost as if they just couldn't help themselves when confronted with opposing view points.
  • BS44325 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.

    Totally but there is a way to have these disagreements without moving into banned territory. There are some people I debated with heavily over the last couple of years who apparently are now banned. It's almost as if they just couldn't help themselves when confronted with opposing view points.
    And unfortunate too because I think they were quality people and could have used the exercise to hone their control.

    You've also said a mouthful with the first part of what you wrote: for example, Godfather takes a beating on here, but does anybody think he wouldn't open up his fridge, feed you beer and whatever else he had in his fridge, play some good music, and expect nothing in return if you sat on his deck with him?

    Point should be obvious: deep down... we're all the same. Our vantage points are the only thing that is different. We might not see things the same, but we came to those views on our own very unique paths that if someone else had walked... they'd be there as well.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • BS44325 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.

    Totally but there is a way to have these disagreements without moving into banned territory. There are some people I debated with heavily over the last couple of years who apparently are now banned. It's almost as if they just couldn't help themselves when confronted with opposing view points.
    And unfortunate too because I think they were quality people and could have used the exercise to hone their control.

    You've also said a mouthful with the first part of what you wrote: for example, Godfather takes a beating on here, but does anybody think he wouldn't open up his fridge, feed you beer and whatever else he had in his fridge, play some good music, and expect nothing in return if you sat on his deck with him?

    Point should be obvious: deep down... we're all the same. Our vantage points are the only thing that is different. We might not see things the same, but we came to those views on our own very unique paths that if someone else had walked... they'd be there as well.
    It's not hard folks.
    Don't ruffle feathers and always agree with the majority in every thread on this forum.
    Never say anything that you think others may disagree with you could get banned.
  • ^^^

    No. Do ruffle feathers and challenge what you feel needs to be challenged. But be mindful to focus on the topic and less on the person delivering the counter argument.

    (Advice I have ignored at times)
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • BS44325BS44325 Posts: 6,083

    BS44325 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.

    Totally but there is a way to have these disagreements without moving into banned territory. There are some people I debated with heavily over the last couple of years who apparently are now banned. It's almost as if they just couldn't help themselves when confronted with opposing view points.
    And unfortunate too because I think they were quality people and could have used the exercise to hone their control.

    You've also said a mouthful with the first part of what you wrote: for example, Godfather takes a beating on here, but does anybody think he wouldn't open up his fridge, feed you beer and whatever else he had in his fridge, play some good music, and expect nothing in return if you sat on his deck with him?

    Point should be obvious: deep down... we're all the same. Our vantage points are the only thing that is different. We might not see things the same, but we came to those views on our own very unique paths that if someone else had walked... they'd be there as well.
    Of course but this is what drives me crazy the most! When I see people "who are all the same" make excuses for or encourage the silencing of speech they disagree with it reminds me that freedom is not guaranteed. Tyranny requires the work of rational people to slowly cede ground to the predators in their midst.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,207
    BS44325 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.

    Totally but there is a way to have these disagreements without moving into banned territory. There are some people I debated with heavily over the last couple of years who apparently are now banned. It's almost as if they just couldn't help themselves when confronted with opposing view points.
    either that, or we just found better ways to spend our time. i never come around here anymore.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,897

    BS44325 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just draw the line where i think getting banned from boards will kick in.

    Totally but there is a way to have these disagreements without moving into banned territory. There are some people I debated with heavily over the last couple of years who apparently are now banned. It's almost as if they just couldn't help themselves when confronted with opposing view points.
    And unfortunate too because I think they were quality people and could have used the exercise to hone their control.

    You've also said a mouthful with the first part of what you wrote: for example, Godfather takes a beating on here, but does anybody think he wouldn't open up his fridge, feed you beer and whatever else he had in his fridge, play some good music, and expect nothing in return if you sat on his deck with him?

    Point should be obvious: deep down... we're all the same. Our vantage points are the only thing that is different. We might not see things the same, but we came to those views on our own very unique paths that if someone else had walked... they'd be there as well.
    No doubt, Thirty. And bless you (shh, callen!) for the latter sentiment.
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