Paris Attacks

HughFreakingDillon

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

this war is not against a specific country. it goes beyond borders. how do you win a war like that?

PJ_Soul

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

I don't feel like Germany and Japan are usable examples here.
But in any case, I understand what you mean about the commitment to stay..... However, that same commitment to stay also equals a commitment to occupy a nation indefinitely. That is where the problem arises. It's not so easy to occupy people who don't want to be occupied, especially when they have allies elsewhere who also don't approve of the occupation, and it presents a huge moral dilemma too, especially this day and age.

BS44325

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

this war is not against a specific country. it goes beyond borders. how do you win a war like that?

It is only won when moderates are able to live free from fear. Again the majority of muslims don't embrace the radical ideology but are deathly afraid of their violence. They cower in the face of that violence which then allows for the radical ideology to grow. Once given security from that evil moderates will join up to defeat it. Moderation will then spread from the inside out as recruitment dries up. The essential factor though is security.

mickeyrat

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.

dignin

BS44325 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

this war is not against a specific country. it goes beyond borders. how do you win a war like that?

It is only won when moderates are able to live free from fear. Again the majority of muslims don't embrace the radical ideology but are deathly afraid of their violence. They cower in the face of that violence which then allows for the radical ideology to grow. Once given security from that evil moderates will join up to defeat it. Moderation will then spread from the inside out as recruitment dries up. The essential factor though is security.

Sounds a lot like Bush and Cheney, and that worked great.

dignin

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.

Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.

PJ_Soul

dignin said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.

Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.

Well, it's probably possible, but it has to be gently, slowly euthanized. Beating it to death doesn't work.

dignin

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.

Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.

Well, it's probably possible, but it has to be gently, slowly euthanized. Beating it to death doesn't work.

I think we need to be realistic, none of these ideas will ever go away. There will always be some movement somewhere trumpeting either one of these. I believe everything is on a pendulum, you swing too far one way and it's going to swing back. Unless you believe that we are anywhere near having a Utopia......but given the problems that climate change will bring us, there is no way that will ever happen.

Sorry, I went a little off the tracks there.

PJ_Soul

dignin said:

PJ_Soul said:

dignin said:

mickeyrat said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

But that ideology from nazis didnt really die did it? Seems to still have a foothold in some quarters.

Fascism, communism, socialism, capitalism.....you can't kill an idea.......especially through force.

Well, it's probably possible, but it has to be gently, slowly euthanized. Beating it to death doesn't work.

I think we need to be realistic, none of these ideas will ever go away. There will always be some movement somewhere trumpeting either one of these. I believe everything is on a pendulum, you swing too far one way and it's going to swing back. Unless you believe that we are anywhere near having a Utopia......but given the problems that climate change will bring us, there is no way that will ever happen.

Sorry, I went a little off the tracks there.

You never know. I believe human kind has the potential to rid itself of these kinds of things IF things go right in the future. But not in our lifetimes. I'm on more of a Star Trek: The Next Generation timeline. (excluding Socialism and/or Communism though, btw. These are not negative or sinister ideas in their pure form. Humans just aren't good enough to deal with them yet. I consider true Socialism or even Communism to be the ideal goal - socioeconomic theories that actually could only exist as they are theorized in a utopia, where no one is greedy or in need. "Communism" as it has existed so far is only sinister because those who try to apply it are corrupt dictators and because humans have too much greed and a need to attain power. The world has never seen real Communism at work. Only Totalitarianism.).

ldent42

TNG is on right now on BBC America PJSoul.

PJ_Soul

ldent42 said:

TNG is on right now on BBC America PJSoul.

One of my faves! The whole series in on Netflix.

PJfanwillneverleave1

So the signing of the condolence book ends today here before they are shipped off to the consulate in Paris.
What do you think they will do with the book?

ldent42

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

So the signing of the condolence book ends today here before they are shipped off to the consulate in Paris.
What do you think they will do with the book?

I think it'll be put on a display in the consulate.

josevolution

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

So you would be ok for troops to be there for like the next what 50 yrs cause maybe by then you would change their ideology ....

mcgruff10

josevolution said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

So you would be ok for troops to be there for like the next what 50 yrs cause maybe by then you would change their ideology ....

i.e. south korea

eddiec

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

dignin said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

BS44325 said:

PJ_Soul said:

But it's a good point. I don't actually find it funny. This whole issue is absolutely 100% infuriating to me.

Agree with the infuriating as well though for it is a world war and people refuse to recognize...it has been for years. An enemy has engaged globally but we have yet decided to fully label the enemy or respond appropriately. Gunmen have just taken 170 hostages in Mali, American teenager killed in Israel yesterday along with four others, all this on top of the countless number of attacks that began on a regular basis since before this message board even existed. It is time for people on here to wake up to this fact. Until then it is impossible to even discuss solutions.

Although the Mali attack appears to be Al-Qaeda, not ISIS.

It's the ideology and not the group we're at war with.

Exactly, and you can't win a war with ideology with guns and bombs.

Yes you can

Didn't work too well in Afghanistan. Or Vietnam.

Yet it worked extremely well in Germany and Japan so go figure. It is about a commitment to winning and staying to secure the peace. Peace was secured in Iraq but then came withdrawal. If troops stayed ISIS would be on the ropes. This is dubbed the long war for a reason. A commitment to stay is necessary.

Peace was never secured in Iraq. Saddam lost but peace was never gained. I would even argue that there became less peace in the country with the fall of Saddam.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

ask the families of isis or the so called radical muslim victims about fear...they live in fear and you really can't even begin to understand what fear is, not many of us at all can truly understand what fear is but until we do some Americans will welcome anybody just like France and Belgium did, the US is paying for it's open border policy but people who don't pay attention ignore it's warning signs and welcome terrorism with open arms, how much worse dose the situation with muslim attacks have to get before people open their eye's in America ?


Godfather.

honestly, anyone that worries about syrian refugees coming to the US needs to educate themselves on exactly what those refugees go through to get the green light. do you know the screening process? I'm guessing you don't. read this:

http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

great read but it minimizes the facts that are refugee problems, for instance the two boys involved in the Boston bombing were refugees, this doesn't mean they were first timers in terrorism only that it was the first time they were caught.
if you listen to the muslim fighters on video and news they talk about taking over the world, now as stupid as that sounds this small percentage of muslims is actually in the millions and somehow they make their way into countries across the world and many as refugees, how did the muslims involved in 9/11 inter the US ? and even go to flight schools in the US and Canada ?......there is a problem here and some people just don't want to see it and refuse to believe it but it's right here in our faces and the old saying "wake up America" is a very true statement today.

Godfather.

Bentleyspop

Godfather. said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Godfather. said:

ask the families of isis or the so called radical muslim victims about fear...they live in fear and you really can't even begin to understand what fear is, not many of us at all can truly understand what fear is but until we do some Americans will welcome anybody just like France and Belgium did, the US is paying for it's open border policy but people who don't pay attention ignore it's warning signs and welcome terrorism with open arms, how much worse dose the situation with muslim attacks have to get before people open their eye's in America ?


Godfather.

honestly, anyone that worries about syrian refugees coming to the US needs to educate themselves on exactly what those refugees go through to get the green light. do you know the screening process? I'm guessing you don't. read this:

http://time.com/4116619/syrian-refugees-screening-process/

great read but it minimizes the facts that are refugee problems, for instance the two boys involved in the Boston bombing were refugees, this doesn't mean they were first timers in terrorism only that it was the first time they were caught.
if you listen to the muslim fighters on video and news they talk about taking over the world, now as stupid as that sounds this small percentage of muslims is actually in the millions and somehow they make their way into countries across the world and many as refugees, how did the muslims involved in 9/11 inter the US ? and even go to flight schools in the US and Canada ?......there is a problem here and some people just don't want to see it and refuse to believe it but it's right here in our faces and the old saying "wake up America" is a very true statement today.

Godfather.

Here are some readily known facts......

The Boston bombers came to the U.S. as children with their family on tourist visas. It was only after they had been here awhile did their father apply for political asylum.

Very different than coming here as refugees.

There is a very distinct difference between asylum seekers and refugees.

Also there is NOT ONE recorded incident of a refugee coming to America and committing a terrorist act.

You asked how did the 9/11 attackers enter the U.S.?......

Only one of the 19 hijackers came to the U.S. on a student visa. The rest arrived here on tourist or business visas.

Facts are important.

Godfather.

yes facts are very important, so you just described 2 more ways that terrorist enter other countries.

Godfather.

HughFreakingDillon

Godfather. said:

yes facts are very important, so you just described 2 more ways that terrorist enter other countries.

Godfather.

Two ways which have zero to do with refugees.