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Canadian Politics Redux

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    SpunkieSpunkie I come from downtown. Posts: 6,041
    Go swim across Sasamat for me!

    Now back to politics... hmmm....
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    ZodZod Posts: 10,431
    We're still stuck with 3 parties and 3 leaders, none of which really have a plan or idea to solve most of the current problems.   I predict that regardless of who wins the 2025 election, when the term ends, they'll have left Canada in worse shape than they inherited it :)  Mostly because I'm deep in my 40s now, and I don't recall too many of governments actually improving much of anything.
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    Zod said:
    We're still stuck with 3 parties and 3 leaders, none of which really have a plan or idea to solve most of the current problems.   I predict that regardless of who wins the 2025 election, when the term ends, they'll have left Canada in worse shape than they inherited it :)  Mostly because I'm deep in my 40s now, and I don't recall too many of governments actually improving much of anything.
    Yep.  I have zero faith. Hope... all lost. To me what is needed is very drastic change. In order for change to happen, sacrifices would need to be made, concessions would need to be made.  Therein lies the problem. No one wants to admit their wrong. No party, no leader, and hardly any citizens these days.  Empathy and understanding... out the window. 

    Private sector corporate mentality is no different... if anything kind of worse. Excess wealth, lying, corruption, exploitation... all with one purpose in mind:  Make things better for 'me' or 'us.'  'Us' as in our company. Politically.. 'us' as in party. 

    In politics.. leaders lie through their skin daily to hoodwink people for votes. It's become so bad in Canada and on steroids in the States that an authentic politician would be utterly shocking.  They lie so much and so regularly that it has become remarkably accepted by the people.... and amongst other politicians... telling the truth would be way too dangerous to the establishment. 

    Tony D'Amato said it best: "either we heal now, as a team... or we will die as individuals." 


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    erebuserebus Posts: 559
    You would think the leader of the opposition would be required and want top security clearance.


    1996: Toronto
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776
    erebus said:
    You would think the leader of the opposition would be required and want top security clearance.



    I know it wouldn't exactly be practical, but these days, I think my idea of that would depend on who the leader of the opposition is, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    Here’s a more fulsome article, odd that we’re not dusting off a file that already wargamed this scenario, but we do have a record of ignoring previous analyses (see SARS and covid).

    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/11/canada-us-civil-war-00162521
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    I think no matter what, we're in for hard times if Trump is re-elected.   That said... our election would be right around the corner and if Trump wins, I do not want Trudeau as PM under any circumstances.  

    I've recently been made aware of some of Trumps platform promises and this fucked up albeit seemingly real Project 2025 stuff.   Full straight up dictatorship stuff. 

    If he gets in again... my Pearl Jam fund will become my prepping fund. lol 
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    Parksy said:
    I think no matter what, we're in for hard times if Trump is re-elected.   That said... our election would be right around the corner and if Trump wins, I do not want Trudeau as PM under any circumstances.  

    I've recently been made aware of some of Trumps platform promises and this fucked up albeit seemingly real Project 2025 stuff.   Full straight up dictatorship stuff. 

    If he gets in again... my Pearl Jam fund will become my prepping fund. lol 
    so you think we'd be more secure with PP if trump gets back in?
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    Parksy said:
    I think no matter what, we're in for hard times if Trump is re-elected.   That said... our election would be right around the corner and if Trump wins, I do not want Trudeau as PM under any circumstances.  

    I've recently been made aware of some of Trumps platform promises and this fucked up albeit seemingly real Project 2025 stuff.   Full straight up dictatorship stuff. 

    If he gets in again... my Pearl Jam fund will become my prepping fund. lol 
    I agree things will get turbulent if Trump gets in again, but American democracy withstood his first Presidency and I personally believe that it would navigate a Trump return.

    That said I’m not familiar with the Project 2025 thing so I’ll have to look it up later, I’m nervous about your preview though (lol?).
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    he held back in term 1 knowing he'd have to win moderates for a second term. for a second term, he does what he wants. gloves are off. he has nothing to lose. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    he held back in term 1 knowing he'd have to win moderates for a second term. for a second term, he does what he wants. gloves are off. he has nothing to lose. 
    So you honestly believe that a second Trump presidency will only result in the downfall of their democracy? There are checks and balances built into their system to safeguard against such (unlike our own system).
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    he held back in term 1 knowing he'd have to win moderates for a second term. for a second term, he does what he wants. gloves are off. he has nothing to lose. 
    So you honestly believe that a second Trump presidency will only result in the downfall of their democracy? There are checks and balances built into their system to safeguard against such (unlike our own system).
    of course not. But he has already shown how vague wording in hundreds-year old documents can lead to serious issues and can potentially be litigated his way. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    ZodZod Posts: 10,431
    edited June 20
    he held back in term 1 knowing he'd have to win moderates for a second term. for a second term, he does what he wants. gloves are off. he has nothing to lose. 
    So you honestly believe that a second Trump presidency will only result in the downfall of their democracy? There are checks and balances built into their system to safeguard against such (unlike our own system).

    Trump was figuring out how to get around the checks and balances.  It felt like he was figuring it out, and getting him out was really tight.   Basically replacing as many people in various levels of government with supporters and yes people.   Checks and Balances do less if you have minions in the other levels doing your bidding.   It's kind of crazy, that that seems to go against everything America stands for.  The US constitution was written as response to their utter contempt for the monarchy and one person in power.   No half the US wants their own version of a monarchy.

    He stacked the Supreme Court too.. so if he challenged the 22nd amendment, and they decide to come up with a reason a 3rd term is possible... shrug.
    Post edited by Zod on
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    I always believed in those checks and balances too. that's what got me through after he won in 2016. But he quickly showed those checks and balances assume the best of those in power. The system is actually VERY fragile. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    Parksy said:
    I think no matter what, we're in for hard times if Trump is re-elected.   That said... our election would be right around the corner and if Trump wins, I do not want Trudeau as PM under any circumstances.  

    I've recently been made aware of some of Trumps platform promises and this fucked up albeit seemingly real Project 2025 stuff.   Full straight up dictatorship stuff. 

    If he gets in again... my Pearl Jam fund will become my prepping fund. lol 
    so you think we'd be more secure with PP if trump gets back in?
    i really liked the way the liberals handled the first trump presidency (with the exception of dumb-ass Trudeau caught on a hot mic mocking him.... which I personally really, really, really liked... but from a foreign relations point of view, not a great look) 

    In particular, I'll never forget our response when Trump said out of nowhere he was going to levy tariffs against us on steel.  Freeland was on the podium like the next day basically saying "bring it on you idiot... you're going to screw over your own companies" and then nothing became of it. 

    This time around....  I think Trump will have more power.  He already said he's going to introduce widespread tariffs... and I think he will target a liberal Canada in a big way. 

    Pierre in power, Conservatives in power... I think Pierre will kiss Trump's ass a bit.   And while I may not agree with that personally... that might be in the best interest of our country's future.  We cannot simply cut ties with the U.S. 
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    Parksy said:
    I think no matter what, we're in for hard times if Trump is re-elected.   That said... our election would be right around the corner and if Trump wins, I do not want Trudeau as PM under any circumstances.  

    I've recently been made aware of some of Trumps platform promises and this fucked up albeit seemingly real Project 2025 stuff.   Full straight up dictatorship stuff. 

    If he gets in again... my Pearl Jam fund will become my prepping fund. lol 
    I agree things will get turbulent if Trump gets in again, but American democracy withstood his first Presidency and I personally believe that it would navigate a Trump return.

    That said I’m not familiar with the Project 2025 thing so I’ll have to look it up later, I’m nervous about your preview though (lol?).
    I disagree about the democracy thing. I think we'll only know if democracy has withstood Trumpism in about one year time.  

    The very fact that he is on the ballot and is being supported is the very erosion of democracy at play. He has not and will not be held to account for what he has done and that is extremely scary.  He wins again... and it's "oh, fuck" time. 

    The Project 2025 thing is absolutely frightening. 
    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    Zod said:
    he held back in term 1 knowing he'd have to win moderates for a second term. for a second term, he does what he wants. gloves are off. he has nothing to lose. 
    So you honestly believe that a second Trump presidency will only result in the downfall of their democracy? There are checks and balances built into their system to safeguard against such (unlike our own system).

    Trump was figuring out how to get around the checks and balances.  It felt like he was figuring it out, and getting him out was really tight.   Basically replacing as many people in various levels of government with supporters and yes people.   Checks and Balances do less if you have minions in the other levels doing your bidding.   It's kind of crazy, that that seems to go against everything America stands for.  The US constitution was written as response to their utter contempt for the monarchy and one person in power.   No half the US wants their own version of a monarchy.

    He stacked the Supreme Court too.. so if he challenged the 22nd amendment, and they decide to come up with a reason a 3rd term is possible... shrug.
    This.   

    To Darth... with regard to the checks and balances and laws etc.... .  Trump has studied his entire life to get around this shit. Literally hundreds maybe thousands of lawsuits etc. in the private sector.  

    He has already stacked the court (fucking remarkable)... he has loads of support from red states... he'll have judges, you name it.

    What's interesting about Project 2025.....  is that it's basically the blueprint of how to get around and manipulate those checks and balances to create a dictatorship. Which is why left wingers and democrats are trying to raise awareness about it. 

    One interesting factor is the public sector.  I'm using made up numbers for examples... but let's say the federal government employs 10,000 people.  Presently, 500 of those are politically appointed by incoming party/leader... the rest are maintained like any company.. based on skills and experience and not appointees.  The blueprint is outlining legal avenues to change those numbers from 500 to say 2000 giving Trump the power to start putting even more appointed personnel into positions.  Which is something he has already done and makes zero apologies for.  Trumpism starts infecting things like the military and we have a big, big, big problem. 

    The sweet irony in all this.... is that Trump promises to "eradicate communists and fascists" ... meanwhile everything he plans on doing makes America the Soviet Union. What we today call the "Russian Oligarchs" in a few years could become "Trump's Cronies."  

    To Zod:  I'm at the point where I have no idea what America stands for. It's history is full of hypocritical moves and proxy wars to gain itself power and prosperity.  It's laws are mind boggling... and as much as we can point at Trump and say he's awful....  he's just a sneaky player in the game.  I haven't heard one democrat and certainly not Biden say anything with regards to trying to FUCKING CHANGE THESE LAWS.  Two things should be remarkably clear by now.....   1. Presidential pardons... terrible idea.  2. Politically appointing Supreme Court judges... terrible idea.    Trump has and will continue to exploit every stupid legal avenue available to him.  And while we say he's evil for exploiting these avenues.. NO ONE IS CLOSING THE DOOR ON IT.    I honestly thought when Biden became President, one of his first moves would be to start stripping himself of powers knowing how the last guy exploited so much. Alas, here we are. 
    Toronto 2000
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    Parksy said:
    Parksy said:
    I think no matter what, we're in for hard times if Trump is re-elected.   That said... our election would be right around the corner and if Trump wins, I do not want Trudeau as PM under any circumstances.  

    I've recently been made aware of some of Trumps platform promises and this fucked up albeit seemingly real Project 2025 stuff.   Full straight up dictatorship stuff. 

    If he gets in again... my Pearl Jam fund will become my prepping fund. lol 
    I agree things will get turbulent if Trump gets in again, but American democracy withstood his first Presidency and I personally believe that it would navigate a Trump return.

    That said I’m not familiar with the Project 2025 thing so I’ll have to look it up later, I’m nervous about your preview though (lol?).
    I disagree about the democracy thing. I think we'll only know if democracy has withstood Trumpism in about one year time.  

    The very fact that he is on the ballot and is being supported is the very erosion of democracy at play. He has not and will not be held to account for what he has done and that is extremely scary.  He wins again... and it's "oh, fuck" time. 

    The Project 2025 thing is absolutely frightening. 
    I agree, the little I’ve read so far about Project 2025 is definitely troubling to say the least.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,217
    I just read a bunch of Project 2025 shit. OMG. 
    Flight Risk out NOW!

    www.headstonesband.com




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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    edited June 20
    I just read a bunch of Project 2025 shit. OMG. 
    originally i thought it was a bunch of malarky... but when you look at the corporate sponsors etc it seems to be getting a lot of support. And not just the nut job, viking costume wearing moron type of support. 

    Edit:  learned that it's not so much corporate support,  but LOTS of right wing lobbying groups, and independent associations. 
    Post edited by Parksy on
    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
    Toronto I&II 2016
    10C: 220xxx
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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,776
    Yeah, Project 2025 is fucking terrifying, and a lot of them are also part of that christian right wing movement to have tons of kids in order to raise them to take over the American government. These people are serious, and 100% willing to do what it takes to make their plans happen. They aren't taken seriously enough at all. I think it is entirely possible that they are going to succeed. It's just crazy, but reality.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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    SpunkieSpunkie I come from downtown. Posts: 6,041
    Jesus. Ignorance is bliss. 
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    Happy Canada Day my fellow Canuckleheads!
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    late reply... Happy Canada Day! 
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    edited July 3
    Watching a live shot of the U of T encampment it kind of looks like a textbook time for the dreaded kettling procedure at 6pm. Anyone not leaving the area peacefully at 6 (I’d allow a few minutes leeway to allow it to be completed) can be deemed in violation.

    There’s a crowd that have clearly gathered to protest the injunction that has a well publicized deadline. Anyone who’s not there to be arrested should be moving by 5:55 just to be safe.

    This is going to get very interesting.



    Edit:  Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not happy making this post.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    edited July 3
    So they’ve actually cleared out and are now on a big march around town.

    Their speeches are kind of cute in their ignorant stupidity, lol.

    Edit:  https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/u-of-t-injunction-encampment-deadline-1.7252944
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    I know it's not going to happen.... but I would pleasantly surprised if the University filed a lawsuit against known encampment organizers and occupiers with regards to repairing the lawn. 

    Also... and this is purely a personal opinion ... If I was a paying student there.... seeing the damage to the grounds, I would be remarkably pissed off.   And don't get me wrong... I understand their gripe...  but I really, really, do not agree with how they did this.  

    That said.... did anything productive from their (occupiers) point of view come from this?  Did they gain anything? 
    Toronto 2000
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    DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,526
    edited July 4
    Parksy said:
    I know it's not going to happen.... but I would pleasantly surprised if the University filed a lawsuit against known encampment organizers and occupiers with regards to repairing the lawn. 

    Also... and this is purely a personal opinion ... If I was a paying student there.... seeing the damage to the grounds, I would be remarkably pissed off.   And don't get me wrong... I understand their gripe...  but I really, really, do not agree with how they did this.  

    That said.... did anything productive from their (occupiers) point of view come from this?  Did they gain anything? 
    I’m guessing the remediation costs will be passed on to future students.

    However, many of the occupation’s leadership have identified themselves over the last 2(?!?!!!) months so that should be the starting point for a lawsuit by the school. I presume that the school’s security took pictures of many participants as well, which could be cross referenced with student ID photos (on those rare times that the protesters removed their masks).

    Or, and here’s a huge leap, perhaps the occupiers could be responsible citizens and return to the campus and contribute their time and money to clean up the mess they made.

    In the end they basically accomplished nothing except pissing people off, mainly because it seems their definition of negotiation was the total capitulation of the other side with no quarter given by the occupiers.

    Edit:  I realized I misread your last paragraph. It would seem that in their own heads the occupiers think they accomplished something, based on their language from yesterday (much of which was borderline delusional), certainly they got themselves acknowledged but haven’t accomplished any changes (partly because of their apparent refusal to genuinely negotiate).
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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    ParksyParksy Posts: 1,734
    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
    Toronto I&II 2016
    10C: 220xxx
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