This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).
How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?
It seems a reminder is needed.
Couple more things lol ...
People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it.
I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means.. but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support. I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson.
Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).
Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.
As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?
Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them. He maintains an arms length. It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump.
Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden. He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him. Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't. Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening.
And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy.
To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.
Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad. If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of.
With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it.
Finally.. I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre. I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric. But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right... Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not. That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him. That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that.
The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?
I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.
I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.
If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.
See... your logic evades me when you compare Alex Jones to Barack Obama. Like.. completely and utterly evades me.
Endorsements are akin to references.
Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company. Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).
How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?
It seems a reminder is needed.
Couple more things lol ...
People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it.
I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means.. but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support. I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson.
Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).
Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.
As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?
Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them. He maintains an arms length. It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump.
Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden. He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him. Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't. Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening.
And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy.
To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.
Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad. If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of.
With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it.
Finally.. I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre. I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric. But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right... Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not. That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him. That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that.
The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?
I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.
I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.
If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.
See... your logic evades me when you compare Alex Jones to Barack Obama. Like.. completely and utterly evades me.
Endorsements are akin to references.
Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company. Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.
This was our Prime Minister. At 30 (ie. a responsible adult). As a teacher (ie. position of authority). In 2001 (maybe not fully woke but many of us were pretty fucking awake back then).
How many pictures like this exist of the evil Pierre Poilievre?
It seems a reminder is needed.
Couple more things lol ...
People have beaten Trudeau over the head with the blackface stuff. He admitted wrongdoing publicly and apologized publicly. I'm personally over it.
I won't say that Pierre is 'evil' by any means.. but he will have to reconcile with the Canadian public about his coziness with right wing extremists, his voting record on gay rights, and his voting record on union support. I'd be interested to see if he will publicly support gay rights, unions, and condemn the psychos like Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson.
Regarding all the fear around PP and gay rights, I simply point to his deputy leader, Melissa Lantsman, an open lesbian. Besides the fact that several Conservative leaders in succession have all asserted that those issues are closed (yet for some reason they are asked about it daily on the campaign trail).
Please clearly show a direct link between the federal Conservatives and these “far right groups”. There’s been a lot of (I would call successful) fearmongering by the Trudeauites in this regard, I believe.
As regards blackface, yes, he apologized, but has done any penance or atonement? By his own admission he worked to keep it hidden all those years, which speaks directly to his integrity, and the India trip showed he hadn’t learned yet that it is wrong. Some can move past this (or even justify it as has been done here), but some of us haven’t. Those pictures would have ended any right-leaning politician’s career, but somehow Justin’s is accepted (what about all the people who were chastised for insensitive costumes before Justin’s adult blackface? Are they being apologized to?). Didn’t drama Justin learn that Sir Laurence Olivier took heat for performing Othello in blackface? In the 60s?
Regarding his characterization of being cozy with the far right... to your point, there is no 'direct link' which is why I say he's cozy with them, but not with them. He maintains an arms length. It's not all that indifferent than the populist downstairs, Trump.
Like Biden did during the debates in 2020, he put him right on the stand nationally asking him to downright condemn the Proud Boys... which he of course could not do. Trudeau is using the same tactic as Biden. He sees the subtle dog whistling and the crowd he keeps... and then he baits him. Diagolon, Alex Jones, Freedom Convoy, Jordan Peterson... Trudeau is calling Pierre out and saying 'Hey you... I see you're getting support from Diagolon and Alex Jones, etc. and asking him to speak on it.' Pierre doesn't. Which is smart for a couple reasons... but again also gives Trudeau ammo. The silence is deafening.
And it's not make belief fear mongering... he's on record saying he wishes Canada was more anglo-saxon, he has done interviews with Peterson, he has met and shook hands with people who support or are a part of Diagolon and of course his support of the Freedom Convoy.
To be clear... it ain't like Trudeau is squeaky clean either. Which is why he should be easy to beat in an election... but the more Pierre panders to the right and keeps them at arms length (in an effort not to lose too many of them to the ridiculous PPC) he risks not gaining the left-centre vote that he needs.
Consider this if you want Trudeau gone so bad. If Alex Jones is publicly supporting Pierre from the States, that's not good. And it crushes the notions that people like me are just buying into the 'fearmongering' you speak of.
With the blackface stuff... If an old photo of Pierre came out tomorrow where he doned the blackface but owned it and apologized for it, I would not be here criticizing him for it.
Finally.. I do understand where you can see folks like me as simply pro trudeau, anti pierre. I'm not. I don't like Trudeau. The list of his fuck ups do in deed outweigh Pierre's by just about any metric. But looking at an impending election as just another chapter in the ongoing culture war between left and right... Pierre ought to start figuring out that like it or not, as a country we are more woke than not, we are more left than not. That's not opinion, and you're not just seeing it here because this is a PJ forum..... that's our voting history of the last ten years. As mentioned above, beyond his just dooshy persona... he's doing things and saying things that are making the left not like him. That's a terrible idea, and it seems completely unnecessary. People won't vote to support Trudeau. They'll vote to stop Pierre because of this stuff. Trudeau knows that.
The Alex Jones endorsement is filed right alongside Obama’s for Trudeau, both inappropriate foreign interference. If Poilievre feels addressing this wacko’s endorsement is beneath him, I don’t blame him. Must Trudeau equally address every endorsement? Or maybe to use a party that’s more comparable in terms of the spectrum, every endorsement Jagmeet receives?
I hope Diagolon’s endorsement doesn’t stem from the trailer Poilievre stepped into because that specific trailer apparently has a longer story than has generally been reported, and while we’re at it, shall we analyze every single person’s political affiliations that’s shaken Trudeau’s hand? When accusations are based so flimsily, much more proof is required.
I’m glad you mentioned the pendulum because it does seem to swing in ten year increments so as a (supposed) Conservative, it means I should be due, lol.
If blackface pictures did surface of Poilievre I like to think that I’d be all over him until he did the minimum honourable act of resigning as leader (even better to resign as MP in my opinion). For me to accept his keeping his seat would require some sort of sincere bridgebuilding with the offended community (but I’m not his constituent). However I strongly suspect I’ll never have to put that conviction to the test because such pictures likely don’t exist, and don’t until they do. Anyone that voted Liberal in 2019 voted for a party led by the man in the pictures I posted, and as a result my Prime Minister is the only world leader (that I’m admittedly aware of) that has blackface pictures that can be easily found. And then he and his party were reelected when pitted against an RCAF officer turned lawyer turned politician. Does. Not. Compute.
See... your logic evades me when you compare Alex Jones to Barack Obama. Like.. completely and utterly evades me.
Endorsements are akin to references.
Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company. Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.
I understand the differences between the two, my point was moreso that they both qualify as foreign interference and should both be equally dismissed. Others don’t see it that way and that’s fair enough.
I also get incredibly uncomfortable when politicians at different levels endorse candidates in elections for different levels of government, it sets a bad tone in the case that the other candidate wins.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
A political endorsement is different than a financial endorsement to me... that said, you do touch upon an interesting subject.
Both are considered valuable. Trump for example uses endorsements like candy. He knows his endorsement is worth something, and like the greasy businessman he is, he knows you don't give anything of value away for free.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
An endorsement actually does not qualify as foreign political interference fwiw. Foreign political interference is a very real thing, and that ain't it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
An endorsement actually does not qualify as foreign political interference fwiw. Foreign political interference is a very real thing, and that ain't it.
Fair enough, I just consider it one type of foreign interference, and I absolutely agree that the more insidious forms of interference need to be strongly addressed by the government (I personally don’t see enough teeth in what was put forward the other day).
Pretty much I think that anyone whose vote is swayed by what any foreigner says should maybe not be allowed to vote on the basis of stupidity. Except for denying anyone the vote runs counter to my core beliefs, so let them vote, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
“You might not agree with what Rex had to say, but oh, boy, could he ever say it," said comedian and fellow Newfoundlander Mark Critch, who performed an impression of Murphy on This Hour Has 22 Minutes.
Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Mine is that this column by 'journalist' Rex Murphy is like chum for the Fox News loving propaganda seeking right wing whiners. Full of bias, assumptions, and salacious innuendo.
Criticizing the PM of Canada for not supporting Israel while they commit genocide is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a 'journalist' write. It's mind boggling that you think this is a good criticism of Trudeau.
What Rex (and perhaps yourself) doesn't understand here is that during conflict... countries, politicians, and people (campus heroes) do not need to choose a side and stick with it.
What Hamas did is putrid and horrific.
What Israel is now doing in response is putrid and horrific.
In reading that BS article, Rex seems to want his readers to focus primarily on two things: Hamas killed and raped people without mercy during and after October 7th. And Justin Trudeau has failed for not fully supporting Israel.
Darth... any chance you want to take a stab at a fairly glaring omission from this article? Floor is yours, take a guess at what Rex is unsurprisingly omitting from his article. For your sake, I hope you know what that omission is.
Then ask yourself.... if you know and understand that extremely factual and real thing that Rex is omitting from his article... ask yourself.... 'is there ANY chance, that could be a reason why Trudeau isn't putting his full support behind Israel? And perhaps.... what is causing protests across our country?' Let's see if you can admit and cite what Rex failed to do here. Put it in words here.
While you're at it.. let me help you and Rex out a bit. He asked "Where was the denunciation of Hamas from Trudeau?" Answer: Everywhere. From interviews to the House of Commons to official statements. That's where it was. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that if you read Rex Murphy.
Honestly... do you honestly read this stuff and believe it? If you can't smell the burning stench of this man's bogus and absolutely harmful propaganda... I can't help you. You are being hoodwinked. Bullshitted. Manipulated. There is zero denying that after reading this article that you posted and are celebrating here. I hope for you and those like you that you someday learn that drinking information from the same dirty fountain.. will poison your brain.
Trudeau is not good for Canada. And this article by Rex Murphy... is not good for Canada. See.. two things can be true at the same time.
This guy was like the Jack Edwards of journalism. If this was his last column.. what a shitty legacy he left.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
To Darth.. forgiveness for seeming harsh.. but I gotta say.. these articles are just no good. Like at all. I think stuff like this from both sides left and right are tearing us apart. The difference being that right leaning media goes way way further into plain old propaganda then left media does. Which is scary because people like you either don't recognize this or don't care.
And the folks who own The Sun and the politicians they fund.. are the ones who win in the end.
Toronto 2000
Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
Boston I&II 2004
Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
Toronto I&II 2011
Buffalo 2013 Toronto I&II 2016 10C: 220xxx
I clearly stated it was a column, which is essentially entirely opinion. And that's how I read his column, which has been his focus for years, after he hung up his journalists' hat.
Maybe that's part of what adds to the conflict, people either can't tell or don't care about the difference between an article and a column. When the author's name precedes the headline, that's a big clue. Am I guilty of posting columns? Yes, oftentimes the writer is expressing a point far better than I could (I honestly can't see a problem with that, given that I will generally label it as such).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Mine is that this column by 'journalist' Rex Murphy is like chum for the Fox News loving propaganda seeking right wing whiners. Full of bias, assumptions, and salacious innuendo.
Criticizing the PM of Canada for not supporting Israel while they commit genocide is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a 'journalist' write. It's mind boggling that you think this is a good criticism of Trudeau.
What Rex (and perhaps yourself) doesn't understand here is that during conflict... countries, politicians, and people (campus heroes) do not need to choose a side and stick with it.
What Hamas did is putrid and horrific.
What Israel is now doing in response is putrid and horrific.
In reading that BS article, Rex seems to want his readers to focus primarily on two things: Hamas killed and raped people without mercy during and after October 7th. And Justin Trudeau has failed for not fully supporting Israel.
Darth... any chance you want to take a stab at a fairly glaring omission from this article? Floor is yours, take a guess at what Rex is unsurprisingly omitting from his article. For your sake, I hope you know what that omission is.
Then ask yourself.... if you know and understand that extremely factual and real thing that Rex is omitting from his article... ask yourself.... 'is there ANY chance, that could be a reason why Trudeau isn't putting his full support behind Israel? And perhaps.... what is causing protests across our country?' Let's see if you can admit and cite what Rex failed to do here. Put it in words here.
While you're at it.. let me help you and Rex out a bit. He asked "Where was the denunciation of Hamas from Trudeau?" Answer: Everywhere. From interviews to the House of Commons to official statements. That's where it was. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that if you read Rex Murphy.
Honestly... do you honestly read this stuff and believe it? If you can't smell the burning stench of this man's bogus and absolutely harmful propaganda... I can't help you. You are being hoodwinked. Bullshitted. Manipulated. There is zero denying that after reading this article that you posted and are celebrating here. I hope for you and those like you that you someday learn that drinking information from the same dirty fountain.. will poison your brain.
Trudeau is not good for Canada. And this article by Rex Murphy... is not good for Canada. See.. two things can be true at the same time.
This guy was like the Jack Edwards of journalism. If this was his last column.. what a shitty legacy he left.
I want to use a separate post to address Israel and Gaza.
I presume you're referring to Israel's military actions in response to a terrorist slaughter. Thus far there haven't been any reports of clear war crimes as I understand. Obviously pains should be taken to protect civilians in a war zone, but options become extremely limited when the enemy chooses to mingle with the noncombatants. It seems that the Israeli army is doing what it can to not intentionally target civilians.
How has Canada reacted? They've equated both sides, often evidenced in funding announcements. Speaking of funding, strong evidence was presented of complicity in a terrorist attack by several members of a UN aid organization, among many other allegations. We rightly suspended funding for that organization (just after making a quarterly donation unfortunately), then resumed funding in time to make the next quarterly payment.
How about the NDP motion, supported by many keffiyeh-wearing Liberals, that focused as much on Israel as it did Hamas? I guess we got lucky that China or Russia didn't take us to court over our response to 9/11?
I think you can tell I stand on the side that didn't commit an unprovoked attack on a music festival, and I will be unapologetic for doing so.
And don't worry about being harsh, it's an issue that's (rightly) carries a lot of emotion on all sides.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
no evidence of war crimes in gaza? you can't be serious. bombing hospitals. not taking any precautions not to kill civilians. shutting off water supply. I could go on. JFC
Mine is that this column by 'journalist' Rex Murphy is like chum for the Fox News loving propaganda seeking right wing whiners. Full of bias, assumptions, and salacious innuendo.
Criticizing the PM of Canada for not supporting Israel while they commit genocide is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a 'journalist' write. It's mind boggling that you think this is a good criticism of Trudeau.
What Rex (and perhaps yourself) doesn't understand here is that during conflict... countries, politicians, and people (campus heroes) do not need to choose a side and stick with it.
What Hamas did is putrid and horrific.
What Israel is now doing in response is putrid and horrific.
In reading that BS article, Rex seems to want his readers to focus primarily on two things: Hamas killed and raped people without mercy during and after October 7th. And Justin Trudeau has failed for not fully supporting Israel.
Darth... any chance you want to take a stab at a fairly glaring omission from this article? Floor is yours, take a guess at what Rex is unsurprisingly omitting from his article. For your sake, I hope you know what that omission is.
Then ask yourself.... if you know and understand that extremely factual and real thing that Rex is omitting from his article... ask yourself.... 'is there ANY chance, that could be a reason why Trudeau isn't putting his full support behind Israel? And perhaps.... what is causing protests across our country?' Let's see if you can admit and cite what Rex failed to do here. Put it in words here.
While you're at it.. let me help you and Rex out a bit. He asked "Where was the denunciation of Hamas from Trudeau?" Answer: Everywhere. From interviews to the House of Commons to official statements. That's where it was. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that if you read Rex Murphy.
Honestly... do you honestly read this stuff and believe it? If you can't smell the burning stench of this man's bogus and absolutely harmful propaganda... I can't help you. You are being hoodwinked. Bullshitted. Manipulated. There is zero denying that after reading this article that you posted and are celebrating here. I hope for you and those like you that you someday learn that drinking information from the same dirty fountain.. will poison your brain.
Trudeau is not good for Canada. And this article by Rex Murphy... is not good for Canada. See.. two things can be true at the same time.
This guy was like the Jack Edwards of journalism. If this was his last column.. what a shitty legacy he left.
I want to use a separate post to address Israel and Gaza.
I presume you're referring to Israel's military actions in response to a terrorist slaughter. Thus far there haven't been any reports of clear war crimes as I understand. Obviously pains should be taken to protect civilians in a war zone, but options become extremely limited when the enemy chooses to mingle with the noncombatants. It seems that the Israeli army is doing what it can to not intentionally target civilians.
How has Canada reacted? They've equated both sides, often evidenced in funding announcements. Speaking of funding, strong evidence was presented of complicity in a terrorist attack by several members of a UN aid organization, among many other allegations. We rightly suspended funding for that organization (just after making a quarterly donation unfortunately), then resumed funding in time to make the next quarterly payment.
How about the NDP motion, supported by many keffiyeh-wearing Liberals, that focused as much on Israel as it did Hamas? I guess we got lucky that China or Russia didn't take us to court over our response to 9/11?
I think you can tell I stand on the side that didn't commit an unprovoked attack on a music festival, and I will be unapologetic for doing so.
And don't worry about being harsh, it's an issue that's (rightly) carries a lot of emotion on all sides.
13500 children killed in Gaza. That's the omission I was looking for. That's what Rex and yourself are conveniently leaving out.
By the way... do you know/understand the difference between a terrorist assault and a military action? As in... if Hamas bombed a hospital is that the same as if our Canadian Forces bombed a hospital? No.
A response... must be a controlled and responsible response. Apply this same logic to Canadian law if you will. Someone punches you in the face... are you allowed to then bludgeon them with a baseball bat? The answer is no.
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Mine is that this column by 'journalist' Rex Murphy is like chum for the Fox News loving propaganda seeking right wing whiners. Full of bias, assumptions, and salacious innuendo.
Criticizing the PM of Canada for not supporting Israel while they commit genocide is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a 'journalist' write. It's mind boggling that you think this is a good criticism of Trudeau.
What Rex (and perhaps yourself) doesn't understand here is that during conflict... countries, politicians, and people (campus heroes) do not need to choose a side and stick with it.
What Hamas did is putrid and horrific.
What Israel is now doing in response is putrid and horrific.
In reading that BS article, Rex seems to want his readers to focus primarily on two things: Hamas killed and raped people without mercy during and after October 7th. And Justin Trudeau has failed for not fully supporting Israel.
Darth... any chance you want to take a stab at a fairly glaring omission from this article? Floor is yours, take a guess at what Rex is unsurprisingly omitting from his article. For your sake, I hope you know what that omission is.
Then ask yourself.... if you know and understand that extremely factual and real thing that Rex is omitting from his article... ask yourself.... 'is there ANY chance, that could be a reason why Trudeau isn't putting his full support behind Israel? And perhaps.... what is causing protests across our country?' Let's see if you can admit and cite what Rex failed to do here. Put it in words here.
While you're at it.. let me help you and Rex out a bit. He asked "Where was the denunciation of Hamas from Trudeau?" Answer: Everywhere. From interviews to the House of Commons to official statements. That's where it was. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that if you read Rex Murphy.
Honestly... do you honestly read this stuff and believe it? If you can't smell the burning stench of this man's bogus and absolutely harmful propaganda... I can't help you. You are being hoodwinked. Bullshitted. Manipulated. There is zero denying that after reading this article that you posted and are celebrating here. I hope for you and those like you that you someday learn that drinking information from the same dirty fountain.. will poison your brain.
Trudeau is not good for Canada. And this article by Rex Murphy... is not good for Canada. See.. two things can be true at the same time.
This guy was like the Jack Edwards of journalism. If this was his last column.. what a shitty legacy he left.
I want to use a separate post to address Israel and Gaza.
I presume you're referring to Israel's military actions in response to a terrorist slaughter. Thus far there haven't been any reports of clear war crimes as I understand. Obviously pains should be taken to protect civilians in a war zone, but options become extremely limited when the enemy chooses to mingle with the noncombatants. It seems that the Israeli army is doing what it can to not intentionally target civilians.
How has Canada reacted? They've equated both sides, often evidenced in funding announcements. Speaking of funding, strong evidence was presented of complicity in a terrorist attack by several members of a UN aid organization, among many other allegations. We rightly suspended funding for that organization (just after making a quarterly donation unfortunately), then resumed funding in time to make the next quarterly payment.
How about the NDP motion, supported by many keffiyeh-wearing Liberals, that focused as much on Israel as it did Hamas? I guess we got lucky that China or Russia didn't take us to court over our response to 9/11?
I think you can tell I stand on the side that didn't commit an unprovoked attack on a music festival, and I will be unapologetic for doing so.
And don't worry about being harsh, it's an issue that's (rightly) carries a lot of emotion on all sides.
13500 children killed in Gaza. That's the omission I was looking for. That's what Rex and yourself are conveniently leaving out.
By the way... do you know/understand the difference between a terrorist assault and a military action? As in... if Hamas bombed a hospital is that the same as if our Canadian Forces bombed a hospital? No.
A response... must be a controlled and responsible response. Apply this same logic to Canadian law if you will. Someone punches you in the face... are you allowed to then bludgeon them with a baseball bat? The answer is no.
I believe using civilian shields as Hamas does is a war crime, so we seem to be getting into chicken and egg territory, Israel only strikes hospitals because they have actionable intelligence (I’m admittedly presuming) that Hamas is operating on the grounds (or under it).
In your example at the end, the person punching me has clearly stated that they will continue punching me in the face until I’m dead (read Hamas’ mission statement). I honestly don’t really know what the appropriate response is, but I think I’d lean towards a strong response as we’re seeing.
One thing that would end that war quickly is if the presumably innocent and uncomplicit people of Gaza turned Hamas out into the streets to the Israeli troops. Will that happen? Likely not, for the same reason my uncle’s father served in the Austrian army during WWII, a gun is essentially pointed at all their heads, and I won’t actually blame them for that.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I didn’t address the casualty numbers, apologies. As I understand it the only source for numbers out of Gaza is a group that answers to Hamas, and therefore those numbers can’t be relied on.
Which is not to say that I don’t think a large number of children and other civilians have been killed and that that is a tragedy. It is terrible but we know that it’s the civilians that have generally suffered the most in times of war. That probably sounds heartless to many, but it’s essentially the facts of war, we’re beyond incredibly lucky to have grown up in a country like ours.
Two points, one, if Hamas hadn’t started out by hiding behind civilians then there might be fewer civilian casualties. Two, if Hamas hadn’t broken a ceasefire and committed a massacre (which, by the way, where are the calls to bring those individuals to justice?), then the civilian casualties would absolutely be greatly reduced.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I didn’t address the casualty numbers, apologies. As I understand it the only source for numbers out of Gaza is a group that answers to Hamas, and therefore those numbers can’t be relied on.
Which is not to say that I don’t think a large number of children and other civilians have been killed and that that is a tragedy. It is terrible but we know that it’s the civilians that have generally suffered the most in times of war. That probably sounds heartless to many, but it’s essentially the facts of war, we’re beyond incredibly lucky to have grown up in a country like ours.
Two points, one, if Hamas hadn’t started out by hiding behind civilians then there might be fewer civilian casualties. Two, if Hamas hadn’t broken a ceasefire and committed a massacre (which, by the way, where are the calls to bring those individuals to justice?), then the civilian casualties would absolutely be greatly reduced.
The best way I can say this... is to look at it from a local point of view. Forget Hamas / Israel.. break it down into things we locally understand.
Organized crime. If we had a group of organized underground criminal actors in Toronto say... and they engaged in drug dealing, murder for hire, human trafficking, rape.. .you name it.... RCMP and TPS and OPP are obviously looking for them. They, and the public want them brought to justice.
The problem is.. the police (mostly) engage within the boundaries of law going against a group that does not.
So taking that example for what it's worth.... let's say the police learned where four of the crime bosses were and one of their criminal hideouts were... and in an attempt to dismantle the crime ring... completely bombed the neighborhood they were in because they didn't want to risk a more stealth mission within the neighborhood. Right?
In doing so, they killed the crime bosses and some crooks, took out a drug lab or two, essentially made a good dent in their operation. The collateral damage was 1000 kids dead, 3200 adults dead, 7000 wounded. Houses, businesses, a school, and a hospital completely destroyed. So imagine that playing out. How do you think the majority of the public would react to that? And do you think it would be acceptable here in Canada?
Likely not. And there are a couple factors here... one of which I think plays huge with Israel.
I expect terrorists to act like terrorists the same way I expect crooks to act like crooks. As soon as a state (backed by the largest military in the world) begins acting in the same way... I reckon it will only breed more and more terrorists.
With regards to what you're saying about facts and what not... and taking a line from Ed; "arrested the press, no one knows what happened next."
IDF maintains a good hold on what's happening over there. Media is censored. And now, journalists are being gunned down. Not arrested, killed.
These stories are backed up by Amnesty International and the UN. The UN by the way... just passed a vote to recognize Palestine as a state. I think 146-ish yes 9-no 25-abstain. Of the 146 yes votes.. two were from G7 countries.
No one is saying what Hamas did, have been doing, and are likely going to continue to do is good in any way. But two wrong's most assuredly don't make a right.
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I didn’t address the casualty numbers, apologies. As I understand it the only source for numbers out of Gaza is a group that answers to Hamas, and therefore those numbers can’t be relied on.
Which is not to say that I don’t think a large number of children and other civilians have been killed and that that is a tragedy. It is terrible but we know that it’s the civilians that have generally suffered the most in times of war. That probably sounds heartless to many, but it’s essentially the facts of war, we’re beyond incredibly lucky to have grown up in a country like ours.
Two points, one, if Hamas hadn’t started out by hiding behind civilians then there might be fewer civilian casualties. Two, if Hamas hadn’t broken a ceasefire and committed a massacre (which, by the way, where are the calls to bring those individuals to justice?), then the civilian casualties would absolutely be greatly reduced.
The best way I can say this... is to look at it from a local point of view. Forget Hamas / Israel.. break it down into things we locally understand.
Organized crime. If we had a group of organized underground criminal actors in Toronto say... and they engaged in drug dealing, murder for hire, human trafficking, rape.. .you name it.... RCMP and TPS and OPP are obviously looking for them. They, and the public want them brought to justice.
The problem is.. the police (mostly) engage within the boundaries of law going against a group that does not.
So taking that example for what it's worth.... let's say the police learned where four of the crime bosses were and one of their criminal hideouts were... and in an attempt to dismantle the crime ring... completely bombed the neighborhood they were in because they didn't want to risk a more stealth mission within the neighborhood. Right?
In doing so, they killed the crime bosses and some crooks, took out a drug lab or two, essentially made a good dent in their operation. The collateral damage was 1000 kids dead, 3200 adults dead, 7000 wounded. Houses, businesses, a school, and a hospital completely destroyed. So imagine that playing out. How do you think the majority of the public would react to that? And do you think it would be acceptable here in Canada?
Likely not. And there are a couple factors here... one of which I think plays huge with Israel.
I expect terrorists to act like terrorists the same way I expect crooks to act like crooks. As soon as a state (backed by the largest military in the world) begins acting in the same way... I reckon it will only breed more and more terrorists.
With regards to what you're saying about facts and what not... and taking a line from Ed; "arrested the press, no one knows what happened next."
IDF maintains a good hold on what's happening over there. Media is censored. And now, journalists are being gunned down. Not arrested, killed.
These stories are backed up by Amnesty International and the UN. The UN by the way... just passed a vote to recognize Palestine as a state. I think 146-ish yes 9-no 25-abstain. Of the 146 yes votes.. two were from G7 countries.
No one is saying what Hamas did, have been doing, and are likely going to continue to do is good in any way. But two wrong's most assuredly don't make a right.
First off I completely agree that two wrongs don't make a right, and I wasn't familiar with the Ed quote, thanks for sharing it, it's a good one. Truth is another frequent casualty of war and information from both sides needs to be taken with a few grains of salt.
I understand the problem many have with the apparent proportionality of the response and please believe me that I would like nothing better than to have no civilian casualties in any conflict, but I just don't see it as being achievable (which isn't to say stop trying obviously). As smart as a bomb might be, it's still stupid once the detonator goes off. I should point out that at least once the IDF has engaged in a stealth/surgical operation specifically when it came to a hospital.
One of the worst parts of this conflict is the cyclical nature that's developed where Hamas guaranteed continued hate or distrust of Palestinians while Israel is creating a new generation of sympathizers for Hamas with each child that loses a parent. The only way past that is a lasting peace and the passage of time but that's currently nowhere near the horizon.
I agree that terrorists will act more akin to criminals and will even say that Israel does need to account better for striking medical facilities and their surroundings. However that's one war crime for Israel compared to Hamas' two. First, October 7, followed by the use of human shields (which as far as I've googled is a war crime). Hamas goes and muddies the water by being both a terrorist organization (under Canadian law) and the official government of Gaza.
I'm going to circle back to your example of being punched in the face while I hold a bat, with the puncher openly stating that they'll return and continue punching until I'm dead. In fact I'll up the ante by putting a gun (nuclear weapons) in my own hand. Again I'll say that I honestly can't say what the proportional response is, since I think that seems to be the primary issue in some ways. Do I use my bat to hobble them? Do I put a bullet through their head in the face of their announced threat? The only real answer I have (other than leaning towards a stronger response) is to thank my God that I live somewhere that this is more mental exercise than fact of life (a sentiment I hope we can all agree on).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
This isn’t intended as a “gotcha”, but it does reframe or recontextualizes part of the discussion.
The UN has chosen to stop accepting casualty figures from groups that answer to Hamas, and as a result the number of women and children killed is estimated to be half of what was previously reported.
It obviously doesn’t lessen the tragedy of civilians being killed in a war zone.
Surely nobody here trusts Hamas? I don't think the above post recontextualizes the part of the conversation about Israel's war crimes and the perspective that Israel is fucking this all up horrible, or about the US's position in terms of supporting Israel's actions at this point, although I don't know if those are are the parts of the discussion you're referring to.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Surely nobody here trusts Hamas? I don't think the above post recontextualizes the part of the conversation about Israel's war crimes and the perspective that Israel is fucking this all up horrible, or about the US's position in terms of supporting Israel's actions at this point, although I don't know if those are are the parts of the discussion you're referring to.
The number that was cited to me was 13,500 children killed, but that is likely closer to 7,000. Seems like a substantial discrepancy to me.
And for every mention of Isreal’s “war crimes” there need to be acknowledgments of Hamas’ numerous war crimes (including the war crime that initiated the current round of open warfare).
I suggested that we were getting into the-chicken-and-the-egg, but in this instance we know which came first, Hamas started by using civilian shields. Then Israel chose to take the shot.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I suggest it's pretty weird to make a point that only killing 7000 children somehow makes things look better for Israel. I personally hold Israel up to much higher standards than I do a terrorist organization, so I don't really get this tit for tat concept that you're onto.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I suggest it's pretty weird to make a point that only killing 7000 children somehow makes things look better for Israel. I personally hold Israel up to much higher standards than I do a terrorist organization, so I don't really get this tit for tat concept that you're onto.
I don’t get where I suggested the lower numbers was somehow a good thing. It’s still a tragedy, I didn’t think it needed to be said every time.
A large part of what informs my views on this conflict is what started it, the October 7 attack by Hamas on civilian targets. Their version of 9/11 in many regards.
I do think Parksy’s analogy of being punched in the face while I hold both a bat and a gun. What is the correct response in the face of what amounts to a death threat? Again, I honestly can’t say but still lean towards a stronger response.
It sometimes comes across that Hamas’ actions in this are being downplayed if not ignored.
I’ll also suggest that both Israel and Hamas need to be held to the same standard, given that Hamas is the official government of Gaza (even if our government lists them as a terrorist organization).
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I am surprised you think Hamas and Israel should be held to the same standards... Hamas shouldn't even exist. I'm assuming you don't think that about Israel at this point (I would argue it perhaps never should have been created by the British, but we're long beyond that obviously).
As for Israel's actions now... it's completely clear that what is happening and the motivation on Israel's part is FAR beyond retaliation against the October 7th attack. As the far-right gets more and more amped up their intentions become more and more clear, as they also continue to completely avoid addressing any long term plan that involves peace with 6 million non-Hamas Palestinians. They don't even seem to be thinking about how to reset negotiations of a 2-state plan right now, and while they continue to hammer Gaza, no Palestinians are in any position to try and start that conversation either. I feel that being stuck on the Oct 7th attack has become pointless.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
When a large part of the discussion is the proportionality of a response and numbers have been used, when those numbers change significantly, then I do see that as absolutely germane to the discussion.
It’s sad that I seemingly need to point everyone back to the last line of my post introducing the revised numbers. The line where I clearly acknowledge that civilian deaths in a war zone have always been and will always be a tragedy.
However, until warfare becomes so targeted that it all occurs via nanobots, there WILL be civilians killed in war.
Is there an equal cry to make us (Canada) face justice for the civilian deaths we caused in Afghanistan? Why not?
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
When a large part of the discussion is the proportionality of a response and numbers have been used, when those numbers change significantly, then I do see that as absolutely germane to the discussion.
It’s sad that I seemingly need to point everyone back to the last line of my post introducing the revised numbers. The line where I clearly acknowledge that civilian deaths in a war zone have always been and will always be a tragedy.
However, until warfare becomes so targeted that it all occurs via nanobots, there WILL be civilians killed in war.
Is there an equal cry to make us (Canada) face justice for the civilian deaths we caused in Afghanistan? Why not?
there absolutely fucking should be. I have always maintained that our participation in any activity in the mid east that directly caused civilian deaths should be investigated, and prosecuted if applicable.
Israel has been actively engaged in genocide for decades. But it's somehow ok because you aren't allowed to criticize anything linked to Israel without being called a bigot.
Comments
Endorsements are akin to references.
Barack Obama = former CEO of a reputable company.
Alex Jones = crack head down the road who doesn't shower and has no teeth.
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I also get incredibly uncomfortable when politicians at different levels endorse candidates in elections for different levels of government, it sets a bad tone in the case that the other candidate wins.
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Both are considered valuable. Trump for example uses endorsements like candy. He knows his endorsement is worth something, and like the greasy businessman he is, he knows you don't give anything of value away for free.
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Pretty much I think that anyone whose vote is swayed by what any foreigner says should maybe not be allowed to vote on the basis of stupidity. Except for denying anyone the vote runs counter to my core beliefs, so let them vote, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/rex-murphy-obituary-1.7199788
Edit: Mark Critch puts it perfectly:
“You might not agree with what Rex had to say, but oh, boy, could he ever say it," said comedian and fellow Newfoundlander Mark Critch, who performed an impression of Murphy on This Hour Has 22 Minutes.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
https://torontosun.com/opinion/rex-murphy-trudeau-faced-an-essential-moral-test-after-oct-7-he-failed-it/wcm/6a53e507-3296-4b27-92eb-5155e5b67ed6
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Mine is that this column by 'journalist' Rex Murphy is like chum for the Fox News loving propaganda seeking right wing whiners. Full of bias, assumptions, and salacious innuendo.
Criticizing the PM of Canada for not supporting Israel while they commit genocide is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen a 'journalist' write. It's mind boggling that you think this is a good criticism of Trudeau.
What Rex (and perhaps yourself) doesn't understand here is that during conflict... countries, politicians, and people (campus heroes) do not need to choose a side and stick with it.
What Hamas did is putrid and horrific.
What Israel is now doing in response is putrid and horrific.
In reading that BS article, Rex seems to want his readers to focus primarily on two things: Hamas killed and raped people without mercy during and after October 7th. And Justin Trudeau has failed for not fully supporting Israel.
Darth... any chance you want to take a stab at a fairly glaring omission from this article? Floor is yours, take a guess at what Rex is unsurprisingly omitting from his article. For your sake, I hope you know what that omission is.
Then ask yourself.... if you know and understand that extremely factual and real thing that Rex is omitting from his article... ask yourself.... 'is there ANY chance, that could be a reason why Trudeau isn't putting his full support behind Israel? And perhaps.... what is causing protests across our country?' Let's see if you can admit and cite what Rex failed to do here. Put it in words here.
While you're at it.. let me help you and Rex out a bit. He asked "Where was the denunciation of Hamas from Trudeau?" Answer: Everywhere. From interviews to the House of Commons to official statements. That's where it was. Unfortunately, you wouldn't know that if you read Rex Murphy.
Honestly... do you honestly read this stuff and believe it? If you can't smell the burning stench of this man's bogus and absolutely harmful propaganda... I can't help you. You are being hoodwinked. Bullshitted. Manipulated. There is zero denying that after reading this article that you posted and are celebrating here. I hope for you and those like you that you someday learn that drinking information from the same dirty fountain.. will poison your brain.
Trudeau is not good for Canada. And this article by Rex Murphy... is not good for Canada. See.. two things can be true at the same time.
This guy was like the Jack Edwards of journalism. If this was his last column.. what a shitty legacy he left.
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And the folks who own The Sun and the politicians they fund.. are the ones who win in the end.
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Maybe that's part of what adds to the conflict, people either can't tell or don't care about the difference between an article and a column. When the author's name precedes the headline, that's a big clue. Am I guilty of posting columns? Yes, oftentimes the writer is expressing a point far better than I could (I honestly can't see a problem with that, given that I will generally label it as such).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I presume you're referring to Israel's military actions in response to a terrorist slaughter. Thus far there haven't been any reports of clear war crimes as I understand. Obviously pains should be taken to protect civilians in a war zone, but options become extremely limited when the enemy chooses to mingle with the noncombatants. It seems that the Israeli army is doing what it can to not intentionally target civilians.
How has Canada reacted? They've equated both sides, often evidenced in funding announcements. Speaking of funding, strong evidence was presented of complicity in a terrorist attack by several members of a UN aid organization, among many other allegations. We rightly suspended funding for that organization (just after making a quarterly donation unfortunately), then resumed funding in time to make the next quarterly payment.
How about the NDP motion, supported by many keffiyeh-wearing Liberals, that focused as much on Israel as it did Hamas? I guess we got lucky that China or Russia didn't take us to court over our response to 9/11?
I think you can tell I stand on the side that didn't commit an unprovoked attack on a music festival, and I will be unapologetic for doing so.
And don't worry about being harsh, it's an issue that's (rightly) carries a lot of emotion on all sides.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
www.headstonesband.com
By the way... do you know/understand the difference between a terrorist assault and a military action? As in... if Hamas bombed a hospital is that the same as if our Canadian Forces bombed a hospital? No.
A response... must be a controlled and responsible response. Apply this same logic to Canadian law if you will. Someone punches you in the face... are you allowed to then bludgeon them with a baseball bat? The answer is no.
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In your example at the end, the person punching me has clearly stated that they will continue punching me in the face until I’m dead (read Hamas’ mission statement). I honestly don’t really know what the appropriate response is, but I think I’d lean towards a strong response as we’re seeing.
One thing that would end that war quickly is if the presumably innocent and uncomplicit people of Gaza turned Hamas out into the streets to the Israeli troops. Will that happen? Likely not, for the same reason my uncle’s father served in the Austrian army during WWII, a gun is essentially pointed at all their heads, and I won’t actually blame them for that.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Which is not to say that I don’t think a large number of children and other civilians have been killed and that that is a tragedy. It is terrible but we know that it’s the civilians that have generally suffered the most in times of war. That probably sounds heartless to many, but it’s essentially the facts of war, we’re beyond incredibly lucky to have grown up in a country like ours.
Two points, one, if Hamas hadn’t started out by hiding behind civilians then there might be fewer civilian casualties. Two, if Hamas hadn’t broken a ceasefire and committed a massacre (which, by the way, where are the calls to bring those individuals to justice?), then the civilian casualties would absolutely be greatly reduced.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Organized crime. If we had a group of organized underground criminal actors in Toronto say... and they engaged in drug dealing, murder for hire, human trafficking, rape.. .you name it.... RCMP and TPS and OPP are obviously looking for them. They, and the public want them brought to justice.
The problem is.. the police (mostly) engage within the boundaries of law going against a group that does not.
So taking that example for what it's worth.... let's say the police learned where four of the crime bosses were and one of their criminal hideouts were... and in an attempt to dismantle the crime ring... completely bombed the neighborhood they were in because they didn't want to risk a more stealth mission within the neighborhood. Right?
In doing so, they killed the crime bosses and some crooks, took out a drug lab or two, essentially made a good dent in their operation. The collateral damage was 1000 kids dead, 3200 adults dead, 7000 wounded. Houses, businesses, a school, and a hospital completely destroyed. So imagine that playing out. How do you think the majority of the public would react to that? And do you think it would be acceptable here in Canada?
Likely not. And there are a couple factors here... one of which I think plays huge with Israel.
I expect terrorists to act like terrorists the same way I expect crooks to act like crooks. As soon as a state (backed by the largest military in the world) begins acting in the same way... I reckon it will only breed more and more terrorists.
With regards to what you're saying about facts and what not... and taking a line from Ed; "arrested the press, no one knows what happened next."
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/20/media/israel-journalists-killed-questions/index.html
IDF maintains a good hold on what's happening over there. Media is censored. And now, journalists are being gunned down. Not arrested, killed.
These stories are backed up by Amnesty International and the UN. The UN by the way... just passed a vote to recognize Palestine as a state. I think 146-ish yes 9-no 25-abstain. Of the 146 yes votes.. two were from G7 countries.
No one is saying what Hamas did, have been doing, and are likely going to continue to do is good in any way. But two wrong's most assuredly don't make a right.
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I understand the problem many have with the apparent proportionality of the response and please believe me that I would like nothing better than to have no civilian casualties in any conflict, but I just don't see it as being achievable (which isn't to say stop trying obviously). As smart as a bomb might be, it's still stupid once the detonator goes off. I should point out that at least once the IDF has engaged in a stealth/surgical operation specifically when it came to a hospital.
One of the worst parts of this conflict is the cyclical nature that's developed where Hamas guaranteed continued hate or distrust of Palestinians while Israel is creating a new generation of sympathizers for Hamas with each child that loses a parent. The only way past that is a lasting peace and the passage of time but that's currently nowhere near the horizon.
I agree that terrorists will act more akin to criminals and will even say that Israel does need to account better for striking medical facilities and their surroundings. However that's one war crime for Israel compared to Hamas' two. First, October 7, followed by the use of human shields (which as far as I've googled is a war crime). Hamas goes and muddies the water by being both a terrorist organization (under Canadian law) and the official government of Gaza.
I'm going to circle back to your example of being punched in the face while I hold a bat, with the puncher openly stating that they'll return and continue punching until I'm dead. In fact I'll up the ante by putting a gun (nuclear weapons) in my own hand. Again I'll say that I honestly can't say what the proportional response is, since I think that seems to be the primary issue in some ways. Do I use my bat to hobble them? Do I put a bullet through their head in the face of their announced threat? The only real answer I have (other than leaning towards a stronger response) is to thank my God that I live somewhere that this is more mental exercise than fact of life (a sentiment I hope we can all agree on).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
The UN has chosen to stop accepting casualty figures from groups that answer to Hamas, and as a result the number of women and children killed is estimated to be half of what was previously reported.
It obviously doesn’t lessen the tragedy of civilians being killed in a war zone.
https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/united-nations-halves-estimate-of-women-and-children-killed-in-gaza
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
And for every mention of Isreal’s “war crimes” there need to be acknowledgments of Hamas’ numerous war crimes (including the war crime that initiated the current round of open warfare).
I suggested that we were getting into the-chicken-and-the-egg, but in this instance we know which came first, Hamas started by using civilian shields. Then Israel chose to take the shot.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
A large part of what informs my views on this conflict is what started it, the October 7 attack by Hamas on civilian targets. Their version of 9/11 in many regards.
I do think Parksy’s analogy of being punched in the face while I hold both a bat and a gun. What is the correct response in the face of what amounts to a death threat? Again, I honestly can’t say but still lean towards a stronger response.
It sometimes comes across that Hamas’ actions in this are being downplayed if not ignored.
I’ll also suggest that both Israel and Hamas need to be held to the same standard, given that Hamas is the official government of Gaza (even if our government lists them as a terrorist organization).
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
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10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
It’s sad that I seemingly need to point everyone back to the last line of my post introducing the revised numbers. The line where I clearly acknowledge that civilian deaths in a war zone have always been and will always be a tragedy.
However, until warfare becomes so targeted that it all occurs via nanobots, there WILL be civilians killed in war.
Is there an equal cry to make us (Canada) face justice for the civilian deaths we caused in Afghanistan? Why not?
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Israel has been actively engaged in genocide for decades. But it's somehow ok because you aren't allowed to criticize anything linked to Israel without being called a bigot.
this conflict did not start on Oct 7.
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