Canadian Politics Redux

Parksy

oftenreading said:

I need more information first as to what the plan would be. In general I'm opposed to measures that place more of a financial burden on people seeking health care, but it's not clear that this is what is being talked about. If it in any way penalizes people for seeking health care then it's likely to be counterproductive and discriminatory for those of low income. I suppose there could be ways that it could be structured that didn't have this effect but I would need to see the nitty gritty of the proposal. 

Practicalities aside, there are interesting ethical questions there but I don't see it as a "slippery slope", since we already tax some unhealthy behaviours highly (cigarettes, alcohol, etc.). We don't do it evenly though, so that's a problem. 

Agreed.  I think  Trudeau came out and basically said the same thing....  need to know more about this plan. 

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

I need more information first as to what the plan would be. In general I'm opposed to measures that place more of a financial burden on people seeking health care, but it's not clear that this is what is being talked about. If it in any way penalizes people for seeking health care then it's likely to be counterproductive and discriminatory for those of low income. I suppose there could be ways that it could be structured that didn't have this effect but I would need to see the nitty gritty of the proposal. 

Practicalities aside, there are interesting ethical questions there but I don't see it as a "slippery slope", since we already tax some unhealthy behaviours highly (cigarettes, alcohol, etc.). We don't do it evenly though, so that's a problem. 

those taxations are done at the cash register though. I assume what quebec is considering is more on the back end. 

Parksy

To Oftenreading's point...  I would hope that this 'tax' would only be for any kind of COVID related health issues. 

All in all it's a very strange thing to announce.  When we consider how long it generally takes laws and legal decisions to be made in Canada... it's puzzling how a provincial government can... seemingly out of the blue... be like "k, we're putting in a health tax for the unvaxxed. 

HughFreakingDillon

Parksy said:

To Oftenreading's point...  I would hope that this 'tax' would only be for any kind of COVID related health issues. 

All in all it's a very strange thing to announce.  When we consider how long it generally takes laws and legal decisions to be made in Canada... it's puzzling how a provincial government can... seemingly out of the blue... be like "k, we're putting in a health tax for the unvaxxed. 

well, my provincial government has changed the PST several times over the past decade and a half, and they don't need opposition support. So I think on a provincial level it's easier to get things done like this than on the federal level. 

dignin

Parksy said:

I'm curious what everyone here's opinion is on the proposed Quebec taxing of the unvaccinated. 

I love it.

I hope all provinces follow Quebec's lead in some form or another.

Should have been done as soon as vaccines were available to all.

Parksy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oOLXG8DmO8 

Not sure who this fellow is.. but he seems smart and he seems to be making interesting points. 

JeBurkhardt

Rather than punitive measures, increased incentives make more sense and might not cause as much consternation. For my health insurance (in US) by being a non smoker, I get a pretty good chunk of money off my premiums. Could they do the same thing up there, by taking out less in taxes from you for your health costs if you are vaccinated?   

Meltdown99

Yes.  Anything is possible?  But this is Canada… Quebec is unique in that it has its own tax agency.  So it  easier to share info between agencies…so yes they could offer incentives.  It raises ethical questions, likely will be challenged in court..

I live in Ontario and everything tax wise is run through revenue Canada..I’d be surprised if they’d ever agree to handle someone’s medical info…they have had a few security breaches during the pandemic.  Also Ontario has ruled out mandatory vaccines or vaxx tax…

Parksy

Meltdown99 said:

Yes.  Anything is possible?  But this is Canada… Quebec is unique in that it has its own tax agency.  So it  easier to share info between agencies…so yes they could offer incentives.  It raises ethical questions, likely will be challenged in court..

I live in Ontario and everything tax wise is run through revenue Canada..I’d be surprised if they’d ever agree to handle someone’s medical info…they have had a few security breaches during the pandemic.  Also Ontario has ruled out mandatory vaccines or vaxx tax…

If this pandemic and our dumb government has shown me anything... it's that nothing is ever 'ruled out.'  

Parksy

In other Canadian news... a fellow named Michael Jackson from Saskatchewan has essentially kidnapped his 7 year old daughter to keep her from her mother, who wants to vaccinate her.  

There is a special place in hell for fellows like this... I hope. 

dignin

JeBurkhardt said:

Rather than punitive measures, increased incentives make more sense and might not cause as much consternation. For my health insurance (in US) by being a non smoker, I get a pretty good chunk of money off my premiums. Could they do the same thing up there, by taking out less in taxes from you for your health costs if you are vaccinated?   

They don't work. We tried to pay the unvaccinated assholes to get vaccinated here in Alberta and saw only a tiny bump.

Taking something away is the only thing that works for these dummies.

Nami

Any new tax is wrong, on all accounts.

I hope people fight this in PQ regardless of what it is for.

Meltdown99

Nami said:

Any new tax is wrong, on all accounts.

I hope people fight this in PQ regardless of what it is for.

Agreed.  Canadians pay too much tax already.  

And asking people to get the vaccine with 2 shots and booster is one thing…

oftenreading

Nami said:

Any new tax is wrong, on all accounts.

I hope people fight this in PQ regardless of what it is for.

“Any new tax is wrong”? Do you mean for any reason at all, or related to covid? If you do mean it broadly, what’s your rationale?

Meltdown99

Well the poster did say on “all accounts”…and I concur.  Canadians PAY way too much TAX…

Nami

C19 or other. This is just a scape goat, prob wrong wording - not meaning to downplay c19, to compensate for government overspending/misuse of funds.

Just watch, if this goes through other provinces will follow.

Then anything is open as fair game going forward.

oftenreading

Nami said:

C19 or other. This is just a scape goat, prob wrong wording - not meaning to downplay c19, to compensate for government overspending/misuse of funds.

Just watch, if this goes through other provinces will follow.

Then anything is open as fair game going forward.

So by “c19 or other” you are referring to any new tax for any reason. 

Circumstances change over time. The tax code, just like lots of other aspects of life, will need to change in response. Seems shortsighted and silly to make a blanket statement that there should never be any new taxes. 

Ans to clarify, I’m not arguing for this tax, whatever the proposal ends up being. 

Nami

Just look at Newfoundlands provincial tax rates vs BC.  Yes there are multiple factors in play, hence a blanket statement.  We pay enough.

Then, inflation on top of that.

Its easier to pass legislation for new taxes vs rid the old, and we both know our taxes will not go down.

And do you honestly think that tax money will go directly into medical field, no just pay off existing debt/spending at all govt levels.

It's just a box we should not open, the government can manipulate this to any area, any industry. 

Just my opinion of course.

Meltdown99

Nami said:

C19 or other. This is just a scape goat, prob wrong wording - not meaning to downplay c19, to compensate for government overspending/misuse of funds.

Just watch, if this goes through other provinces will follow.

Then anything is open as fair game going forward.

Nami said:

C19 or other. This is just a scape goat, prob wrong wording - not meaning to downplay c19, to compensate for government overspending/misuse of funds.

Just watch, if this goes through other provinces will follow.

Then anything is open as fair game going forward.

As long as Ontario is not dumb enough to elect del duca or horwarth I see no new tax coming for the unvaccinated.  Unlike our racist prime minister Doug Ford has not been leading by being divisive…and I’m not a ford fan.

Meltdown99

And if your going to raise any tax then is should be the gst/hst.   Raise the tax 4 % permanently.  Allow the provinces 2% to keep that must go directly into getting delayed medical treatment caught up. The other 2% the feds can come up with a long term  plan to budget and repay the debt for Covid related expenses.

I believe when Harper cut the get by 2% it cost the feds around 28 billion, so 4% should bring in well over 50 billion…if my info is correct.  If not correct.  So yes, I would have no problem with an increase in a consumer tax…but all consumer taxes must be removed from people utility bills..

Meltdown99

I’m sure glad the liberals got to the bottom of bev oda’s 16 dollar oj.  It’s so nice to have good money managers and competence managing the Canadian finances..

Meltdown99

And the only way taxes should ever be considered to be raised is when we finally elect responsible politicians who commit to defunding cbc and quit giving money to any and all corporations…

erebus

Condolences to the McDonough family.
Alexa was a trailblazer and one of the good ones

Nami

Meltdown99 said:

And if your going to raise any tax then is should be the gst/hst.   Raise the tax 4 % permanently.  Allow the provinces 2% to keep that must go directly into getting delayed medical treatment caught up. The other 2% the feds can come up with a long term  plan to budget and repay the debt for Covid related expenses.

I believe when Harper cut the get by 2% it cost the feds around 28 billion, so 4% should bring in well over 50 billion…if my info is correct.  If not correct.  So yes, I would have no problem with an increase in a consumer tax…but all consumer taxes must be removed from people utility bills..

15%hst here, fuck that, enough with taxes.
Food no tax of course- meat cheese milk etc, anything like chips pop cookies taxed plus material goods at 15%. Think about it fed/prov/ HSt... It's a shit show.

Meltdown99

https://twitter.com/cp24/status/1483799967684870145?s=21

Meltdown99

Nami said:

Meltdown99 said:

And if your going to raise any tax then is should be the gst/hst.   Raise the tax 4 % permanently.  Allow the provinces 2% to keep that must go directly into getting delayed medical treatment caught up. The other 2% the feds can come up with a long term  plan to budget and repay the debt for Covid related expenses.

I believe when Harper cut the get by 2% it cost the feds around 28 billion, so 4% should bring in well over 50 billion…if my info is correct.  If not correct.  So yes, I would have no problem with an increase in a consumer tax…but all consumer taxes must be removed from people utility bills..

15%hst here, fuck that, enough with taxes.
Food no tax of course- meat cheese milk etc, anything like chips pop cookies taxed plus material goods at 15%. Think about it fed/prov/ HSt... It's a shit show.

No doubt Canadians pay too much tax…in reality the governments don’t have a revenue problem, they have a spending problem…imo.

HughFreakingDillon

Jagmeet's wife accepts rocking chair gift from company on condition of posting about it on social media. The Singhs have "realized their error" and are paying for the chair. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-chair-gift-reimburse-1.6319704

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

Jagmeet's wife accepts rocking chair gift from company on condition of posting about it on social media. The Singhs have "realized their error" and are paying for the chair. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-chair-gift-reimburse-1.6319704

Yikes. He at least should have known better, and that was very very silly of her. That's all well and good that they "have realized their error" but I don't get how in the hell he could have made the "error" in the first place. Did he just forget why that would be a problem for a sec?? How many times has this happened before I wonder?? Is his wife flush with "gifts"? Obviously there is a conflict here, as well as a misuse of the office. You'd think he would have remember the whole Trump family Goya foods debacle while posting that, haha. Anyway, I actually saw that post of him in the chair on FB yesterday, but didn't at all notice that the chair was tagged. It wasn't obvious in the least... I think you would have had to expend the photo. I'm not sure how many people are that interested in the photo!

Parksy

HughFreakingDillon said:

Jagmeet's wife accepts rocking chair gift from company on condition of posting about it on social media. The Singhs have "realized their error" and are paying for the chair. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-chair-gift-reimburse-1.6319704

Glad he took some responsibility at least.   And yes, dumb of him to do all of this. 

Meltdown99

He’s only sorry he got caught…but this is how it starts, a rocking chair then a vacation to uncle Aga’s island…