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Canadian Politics Redux

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  • dignindignin Posts: 9,049
    Nami said:
    Nami said:
    What understanding, genuine leadership this policy illustrates! Maybe it can be legislated…in fucking November (end of the month for a couple weeks before Christmas vacation!). So much for an “urgent” need for the election, Trudeau played enough people for fools and almost got away with it (thank God he was held to a minority!). (Sarcasm fully engaged throughout most of this post.)

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeau-liberals-are-petty-in-denying-ei-to-unvaccinated
    I don’t actually have a problem with people not getting EI if they refuse to be vaccinated and then lose their job. They have a safe and easy option that protects them and society if they want to keep their jobs. 
    What a disturbing comment.   

    Really? How so?

    I work in health care and I am out of patience with anti-vaxxers. I have no patience left for those who have been perpetuating this pandemic, for those who are causing massive strain in the health care system because they refuse this protection, for those who harass and threaten my colleagues, for those who stand outside hospitals and block entry of emergency vehicles as they protest, for those who complain about having to take a simple measure that protects themselves and their coworkers and clients/patients in order to remain at work. I am not advocating for people to be forcibly vaccinated but if their job requires vaccination and they refuse then I have no issue with them losing that job. Not sure what you find so disturbing about that. 
    Let me start by saying I'm vaccinated.  I'm also a firm believer in that everyone has their right to do as they see fit with their body.  I find it disturbing that if you take away ones meaning of employment, mandating vaccination, then you strip they away from means of survival, in this case EI... eventually welfare if possible, there's nothing wrong with that?  

    I work in the public sector, office setting, and we were all mandated by mid November to have the shot.  I had mine completed in October.  If we did not comply we lose our job/pay.  I'm fortunate to say that it's a position that I can work from home as well.  people were still mandated to get shot if working from home.  

    Now, strip away EI, then what? 

    Typing from cell, it's a pain.



    Fuck them.

    They made their choice when they broke the social contract. They should live with the easily preventable consequences, the same way we have to live with theirs.

    Selfish assholes, the whole lot of them.
  • ZodZod Posts: 8,102
    Nami said:
    Nami said:
    What understanding, genuine leadership this policy illustrates! Maybe it can be legislated…in fucking November (end of the month for a couple weeks before Christmas vacation!). So much for an “urgent” need for the election, Trudeau played enough people for fools and almost got away with it (thank God he was held to a minority!). (Sarcasm fully engaged throughout most of this post.)

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeau-liberals-are-petty-in-denying-ei-to-unvaccinated
    I don’t actually have a problem with people not getting EI if they refuse to be vaccinated and then lose their job. They have a safe and easy option that protects them and society if they want to keep their jobs. 
    What a disturbing comment.   

    Really? How so?

    I work in health care and I am out of patience with anti-vaxxers. I have no patience left for those who have been perpetuating this pandemic, for those who are causing massive strain in the health care system because they refuse this protection, for those who harass and threaten my colleagues, for those who stand outside hospitals and block entry of emergency vehicles as they protest, for those who complain about having to take a simple measure that protects themselves and their coworkers and clients/patients in order to remain at work. I am not advocating for people to be forcibly vaccinated but if their job requires vaccination and they refuse then I have no issue with them losing that job. Not sure what you find so disturbing about that. 
    Let me start by saying I'm vaccinated.  I'm also a firm believer in that everyone has their right to do as they see fit with their body.  I find it disturbing that if you take away ones meaning of employment, mandating vaccination, then you strip they away from means of survival, in this case EI... eventually welfare if possible, there's nothing wrong with that?  

    I work in the public sector, office setting, and we were all mandated by mid November to have the shot.  I had mine completed in October.  If we did not comply we lose our job/pay.  I'm fortunate to say that it's a position that I can work from home as well.  people were still mandated to get shot if working from home.  

    Now, strip away EI, then what? 

    Typing from cell, it's a pain.




    What about the flip side?  Here in BC the overwhelmning majority of cases are coming from people that aren't vaccinated.   Especially from our northern region.   The hospitals are all full up north, so there moving these patiences and filling up all the spaces in southern bc where there was room because way more people are vaccinated.

    This is keeping the health care system full.  As a result, people who should be getting treatments for illnesses, aren't.   Everything is waitlisted.   I had a customer who died of cancer because he was diagnosed but they had to keep pushing back the start of his treatment.

    This is the mortal dilemma.  If it's something that's bad for one's self but doesn't have a direct impact on others that ones one thing.    If the choice is have a direct negative impact on other people, it's another.

    There's a huge cost right now because the health care system continues to be overwhelmed.   What about all the people that aren't being treated or not being diagnosed because people aren't getting vaccines.

    It's super tough.   Ideally if people are choosing not to get vaccinated, they should be permitted access to the health care system for covid, but then there just at home spreading it around making things worse :(
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    Our pathetic health care system is overwhelmed if 2 people show up at the ER with the sniffles at the same time..


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    So Trudeau goes to Washington meets the prez and a week later the prez doubles softwood lumber tariffs…yup Canada is in good shape with this cult in charge.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tishtish Singing in the distance...Posts: 4,048
    edited November 2021
    ^Will that help us keep trees in the ground?

    Or is this really bad, like a bunch of older white men will lose income?
    Post edited by tish on
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    It will not keep trees in the ground.  And your comment toward white men shows your ignorant.  Those white men pay taxes that keep your indigenous peoples on welfare…and puts your dumbass chief in a lifestyle they don’t deserve…


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tishtish Singing in the distance...Posts: 4,048
    True, I don't know too much about the ongoing US-Can timber dispute.

    I do know this affects my province the greatest. My First nation Kootenay band doesn't have a treaty yet, we are negotiating forest use, and used spirituality of the Grizzly bear spirit to prevent a new ski resort going up. 

    I know Indigenous people own 2% of the forests. BC province and provinces own more than federal.

    I suspect that the loggers, truckers and mill business owners are mostly older, white  males.

    Mostly Indigeous people are arrested when fighting against resources exploitation at our expense. 

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,606
    tish said:
    True, I don't know too much about the ongoing US-Can timber dispute.

    I do know this affects my province the greatest. My First nation Kootenay band doesn't have a treaty yet, we are negotiating forest use, and used spirituality of the Grizzly bear spirit to prevent a new ski resort going up. 

    I know Indigenous people own 2% of the forests. BC province and provinces own more than federal.

    I suspect that the loggers, truckers and mill business owners are mostly older, white  males.

    Mostly Indigeous people are arrested when fighting against resources exploitation at our expense. 


    The softwood lumber dispute has been going on as long as I can remember. It's difficult to really get a grip on why it has been so contentious for so long, particularly when the WTO has ruled in favour of Canada more than once. All boils down to money and greed, I guess.

    I don't know the stats but would suspect that you are correct that the mill business owners are mostly white though there are some Indigenous owned mills and some that are co-owned in partnership. The Pacheedat, for instance, own a sorting and shipping facility and a sawmill.

    Some of my work involves working with people in the remote areas of Vancouver Island and I have met many Indigenous forestry workers. I just quickly looked this up and reportedly 9% of jobs in the forest industry in BC are held by Indigenous people, which is a sizable chunk. Forestry, fishing and the like are often the only well paid jobs in these remote communities. I could not easily find data on truckers. 

    Once Indigenous people are able to have more control of forest lands in their traditional territories it will be interesting to see what changes come with respect to harvesting practices. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,606
    It will not keep trees in the ground.  And your comment toward white men shows your ignorant.  Those white men pay taxes that keep your indigenous peoples on welfare…and puts your dumbass chief in a lifestyle they don’t deserve…



    Seems like maybe all of that expressed concern about the wellbeing of Indigenous people and the wrongdoing of the colonizers was possibly not genuine. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,286
    It will not keep trees in the ground.  And your comment toward white men shows your ignorant.  Those white men pay taxes that keep your indigenous peoples on welfare…and puts your dumbass chief in a lifestyle they don’t deserve…



    Seems like maybe all of that expressed concern about the wellbeing of Indigenous people and the wrongdoing of the colonizers was possibly not genuine. 
    was just thinking the same thing. 
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    edited November 2021
    Tariffs on softwood lumber have nothing do with keeping the trees in the ground and no it will not save trees…all these tariffs do is make everything thing more expensive.  It’s funny when Trump raised tariffs Canadian leftest loons got their panties all knotted up…including mr. Blackface who is elected to represent Canada not to appease his senile buddy south of the border.


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 12,606
    Tariffs on softwood lumber have nothing do with keeping the trees in the ground and no it will not save trees…all these tariffs do is make everything thing more expensive.  It’s funny when Trump raised tariffs Canadian leftest loons got their panties all knotted up…including mr. Blackface who is elected to represent Canada not to appease his senile buddy south of the border.


    You may have hear a little phrase before - “supply and demand”. When softwood tariffs have been high in the past it has led to lower demand in the US and , surprise, has led to reductions in harvesting and processing trees. There are other factors affecting demand of course, such as US production, which can be affected by things like their wildfires, but your claim that the tariffs have no impact on tree harvesting is incorrect and, I am assuming, just based on contrariness. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • tishtish Singing in the distance...Posts: 4,048
    Well cheer up gang: here's some comic relief for 99. Thx for brief background info.


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 29,286
    that's actually funny. 
    ....courage is fear that just said its prayers....


  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    That was the most important election since 45’…lmfao.  So important that they did not need to work for 2 months only to vote for some hybrid nonsense that the NDP and liberals…what a bunch of cowards.  Canada has such the laziest fucking politicians around…


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,288
    It will not keep trees in the ground.  And your comment toward white men shows your ignorant.  Those white men pay taxes that keep your indigenous peoples on welfare…and puts your dumbass chief in a lifestyle they don’t deserve…



    Seems like maybe all of that expressed concern about the wellbeing of Indigenous people and the wrongdoing of the colonizers was possibly not genuine. 
    was just thinking the same thing. 
    me too
    Toronto 2000
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    10C: 220xxx
  • tishtish Singing in the distance...Posts: 4,048
    edited December 2021
    Or he was just being defensive by putting on an offense cuz he is an old, white guy that I perhaps insulted in a general way rather than criticizing neo-liberalism which inequitably favours whiteness, generally speaking.

    So, I cut him a break.


    Post edited by tish on
  • NamiNami NewfoundlandPosts: 5,874
    Zod said:
    Nami said:
    Nami said:
    What understanding, genuine leadership this policy illustrates! Maybe it can be legislated…in fucking November (end of the month for a couple weeks before Christmas vacation!). So much for an “urgent” need for the election, Trudeau played enough people for fools and almost got away with it (thank God he was held to a minority!). (Sarcasm fully engaged throughout most of this post.)

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-trudeau-liberals-are-petty-in-denying-ei-to-unvaccinated
    I don’t actually have a problem with people not getting EI if they refuse to be vaccinated and then lose their job. They have a safe and easy option that protects them and society if they want to keep their jobs. 
    What a disturbing comment.   

    Really? How so?

    I work in health care and I am out of patience with anti-vaxxers. I have no patience left for those who have been perpetuating this pandemic, for those who are causing massive strain in the health care system because they refuse this protection, for those who harass and threaten my colleagues, for those who stand outside hospitals and block entry of emergency vehicles as they protest, for those who complain about having to take a simple measure that protects themselves and their coworkers and clients/patients in order to remain at work. I am not advocating for people to be forcibly vaccinated but if their job requires vaccination and they refuse then I have no issue with them losing that job. Not sure what you find so disturbing about that. 
    Let me start by saying I'm vaccinated.  I'm also a firm believer in that everyone has their right to do as they see fit with their body.  I find it disturbing that if you take away ones meaning of employment, mandating vaccination, then you strip they away from means of survival, in this case EI... eventually welfare if possible, there's nothing wrong with that?  

    I work in the public sector, office setting, and we were all mandated by mid November to have the shot.  I had mine completed in October.  If we did not comply we lose our job/pay.  I'm fortunate to say that it's a position that I can work from home as well.  people were still mandated to get shot if working from home.  

    Now, strip away EI, then what? 

    Typing from cell, it's a pain.




    What about the flip side?  Here in BC the overwhelmning majority of cases are coming from people that aren't vaccinated.   Especially from our northern region.   The hospitals are all full up north, so there moving these patiences and filling up all the spaces in southern bc where there was room because way more people are vaccinated.

    This is keeping the health care system full.  As a result, people who should be getting treatments for illnesses, aren't.   Everything is waitlisted.   I had a customer who died of cancer because he was diagnosed but they had to keep pushing back the start of his treatment.

    This is the mortal dilemma.  If it's something that's bad for one's self but doesn't have a direct impact on others that ones one thing.    If the choice is have a direct negative impact on other people, it's another.

    There's a huge cost right now because the health care system continues to be overwhelmed.   What about all the people that aren't being treated or not being diagnosed because people aren't getting vaccines.

    It's super tough.   Ideally if people are choosing not to get vaccinated, they should be permitted access to the health care system for covid, but then there just at home spreading it around making things worse :(
    I will start by saying that I'm not up to date on the issues surrounding the hospitals in BC.  So, my following  comments are in no way meaning to be disrespectful to anyone in the health care industry.

    Wait times in general, I would assume, have been an issue across the country even prior to C19.  I've had such experiences when going to hospital/doctor here.  The health care system is truly underfunded from the get go, and the situation were in, a portion has to be attributed to that.  

    As shown in this thread and others in AMT, division amongst us all has started.   We are heading in the wrong direction.  We should be united in this fight, considering everyone's postion- vaxxed or not.  

    Transmission is occurring, by people vaxxed or not, so we all have to be vigilant in our daily lives. Not simply singling out one portion of the population

    I personally feel the government is over extending in our lives, violating our rights and freedom to choose what is right for ourselves.  Now we have booster shots......when will it end?

    Discussion for alternative treatments is also being suppressed by media and government.  This is also a factor for many in their decision.  Then big pharmas role which  is another discussion.

    When I signed my contract for employment, I did not sign off to be forced to take  unproven/unknown side effects- vaccine shots.  And if I refused, I should not be penalized from employment or EI.  My original concern.

    I'm obviously late in this discussion, and sure past concerns have been mentioned.

    Cheers
    C




    Hamilton 9-13-05; Toronto 5-9-06, Toronto 8-21-09, Toronto 9-12-11, Hamilton 9-15-11....
  • ZodZod Posts: 8,102
    I find it tough, because the cases that go deep into the hospitals, the overwhelming majority of them are coming from unvaccinated people.  Yes there's breakthrough cases, but when 14% of the population is making up something like 75% of the hospital cases, that's completely lopsided.

    Yes our health care system was already pretty bad before Covid, so when we got a pandemic we had no extra capacity to deal with it.  It doesn't take much to jam up our hospital system.   On the flip side we've got what we've got right now.   That 14% are having a negative impact on the rest of the population.   There crowding out people who need other life saving treatments or procedures.

    So yah, your going be singled out because the choice is having a negative impact on everyone else.  The choice isn't just impacting ones self, it's impacting everyone else.

    I have no idea what the end of all this is. I honestly thought society would fall apart it went on this long.  I thought people would go fuck it, but as a society we haven't.   Most people keep holding on for hope, taking it a day at time, and trying to figure out how to navigate these crazy waters.
  • BF89905BF89905 Posts: 1,203
    It will not keep trees in the ground.  And your comment toward white men shows your ignorant.  Those white men pay taxes that keep your indigenous peoples on welfare…and puts your dumbass chief in a lifestyle they don’t deserve…


    This comment is offside. 
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    BF89905 said:
    It will not keep trees in the ground.  And your comment toward white men shows your ignorant.  Those white men pay taxes that keep your indigenous peoples on welfare…and puts your dumbass chief in a lifestyle they don’t deserve…


    This comment is offside. 
    How so?  Did I speak a lie.  No it’s the truth…

    Just like all the parents getting their welfare checks…

    i Live in the real world where stacking up unnecessary debt just to buy peoples votes is just about the dumbest thing we are doing…

    but it’s the young people that will pay for this when they are paying for US style healthcare…




    Give Peas A Chance…
  • tishtish Singing in the distance...Posts: 4,048
    Indigenous-led Forestry Initiatives.
    Tax money at work to counter systemic racism/sexism.





  • tishtish Singing in the distance...Posts: 4,048
    Here's how BC spent some of the tax money in the Indigenous-led Forestry Initiative.

    https://www.fesbc.ca/



  • ZodZod Posts: 8,102
    That's cool.

    Here in BC I don't have much issue with chopping down 2nd growth, and then rotating where it's done by the 20 to 40 years they need the trees to grow again.

    It's the old growth.  So little of it left.   You drive anywhere on this Island you can see how much of it has been logged.

    It bugged me when there was a strike going on up island, and a representative of the logging company basically said they had no choice but to log old growth, because the demand for lumber has been high, and they didn't sustainably log the 2nd growth.  IE if you have X amount of land, with X amount of trees, and it takes X amount of years to growth them back to logging potential, then you can only log X amount per year without f'ing it up.. sigh.

    I also feel bad for first nations.  Pretty much most of the old growth has been logged, so a lot of what's left is on on First Nations lands.  Feels hypocritical to say they can't log it, when basically people want to log it, because everyone else benefited from logging everything else already.

    At some point though, I think you have to walk away from the old growth, and sustainably log 2nd growth in perpetuity.

    I also haven't figured out why we don't have a thriving hemp economy, as it grows way faster then trees, and has fibres that can be used to produce a lot of things that trees can.



  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970

    Travellers returning from Africa say conditions are wretched in Canadian quarantine hotels


    Canada is such a great country…so compassionate and caring.



    Give Peas A Chance…
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,671
    Tough on guns, but not crimes committed using guns, makes zero sense but I guess Liberal pollsters have determined the virtue-signalling outweighs good, effective laws.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-remove-mmps-from-criminal-code-1.6276568
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • ZodZod Posts: 8,102
    and here I was kind of hoping we'd get s 3 or 4 strikes law or something so revolving criminals would either have to stay in jail, or if it's mental health/drug addiction be sentenced to get help.

    It's brutal out here in Victoria.  Police do the work and the courts let 'em on back out.   Revolving door of the same people.  Sucks to be a cop right now.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    Lol if your expecting Trudeau to be tough on crime…

    The Toronto mayor will be on tv soon complaining about legal gun owners…the mayor of Toronto is as corrupt as Trudeau.  

    Gun crime sentences should start at a minimum 10 years and go up from there…


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    The Toronto board of health voted to legalize ALL drugs…my guess is they must be using drugs to make that decision…Toronto is one fucked up city…
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 9,970
    Trudeau is incapable of doing the right thing like joining the diplomatic boycott of the Olympics and banning that Chinese telecom from the Canadian market.  Who are our allies, the US or China?  The US of course.   But Trudeau is a Cuba, communist loving clown…he is a dicktator.  Remember Trudeau admires China and Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver elected this fool…
    Give Peas A Chance…
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