Canadian Politics Redux

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  • dignindignin Posts: 8,262
    This is just flat out disgusting and I don’t know how anyone can continue to rationalize this minority government. With the NDP completely complicit in Trudeau’s current dictatorship.

    Guess I’ll be writing angry emails to the PMO and my local (Liberal) MP tomorrow.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-preparing-to-postpone-parliament-until-september-with-help-from-the-ndp

    Edit: For the whitewashed version:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-ndp-team-up-in-commons-vote-1.5586038
    I hope you were just as mad when Harper prorogued parliament. Because that was way worse.
  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,001
    Never the wrong time to limit accessibility to firearms in my opinion. If one can make use of justified public sentiment about it, so much the better.

    It's always interesting when people talk about gun violence after gun violence.  I don't disagree that something should have been done, but I honestly couldn't help but ask myself, "Why, once again, did we wait for something to happen to act?"  That honestly seems like a repeating problem these days.  
    Toronto 2000
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    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
    Toronto I&II 2016
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  • ParksyParksy Posts: 1,001
    I think the whole “don’t use a gun tragedy to make changes in gun laws” argument is just so much bullshit. We use every other type of tragedy to learn from and ideally make changes to prevent a repeat. Toxic waste spill? Contamination of consumer products? Food safety issues? Train derailments? All of these and more have been opportunities to tighten up regulations and oversight, so why the hell should we not use incidents of gun violence to do the same? 
    I'm not necessarily saying don't use a tragedy to make effective changes, but this isn't that case.  Trudeau is going after legal gun owners who have passed extensive background checks to earn the privilege to own these items.  The Nova Scotia killer didn't possess a single legal firearm.

    If we're limiting items that have the potential to kill and hurt people, then I vote for banning vans (sarcastically, obviously), since there was a tragedy here in Toronto 2 years ago where someone killed 10 people by driving.  While we're at it, put breathalyzers in every single motor vehicle to end the crime of drunk driving and all its social damages.  I'm all for addressing gun violence, but I'd be incredibly surprised to find out the guns used in the murder I was steps from were legal (case remains unsolved as far as google shows me).  Deal with the gangs and the illegal guns they use, not the legal gun owners, in my opinion.

    I understand that "gun culture" is inexplicable to those who don't get it, I suspect a parallel could be drawn with "car culture" as well.  I'm not active in either of those groups, but I have enjoyed target shooting on a few occasions (and every gun owner I've ever met have been almost obsessively responsible with their weapons) as well as the roar of a sweet muscle car.

    Why, for that matter can anyone walk into a store and buy any knife that isn't for the kitchen (until they decide to come for the kitchen knives as well)?  That damn rhetorical slippery slope, and the idea of no one being around when they came for me because I didn't stand up for others.

    No disrespect intended... but comparing guns to vans is dumb.  Our Criminal Code has no basis for determining what a "weapon" is. Technically anything can be used as a weapon and essentially become a weapon. "See Assault with Weapon"  But a gun is a gun. no other purpose. And that's why our Code has sections regarding restricted and non-restricted. I think those restrictions certainly need to be tightened up to the absolute max and should have before something like Sandy Hook took place. 


    Toronto 2000
    Buffalo, Phoenix, Toronto 2003
    Boston I&II 2004
    Kitchener, Hamilton, London, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto 2005
    Toronto I&II, Las Vegas 2006
    Chicago Lollapalooza 2007
    Toronto, Seattle I&II, Vancouver, Philly I,II,III,IV 2009
    Cleveland, Buffalo 2010
    Toronto I&II 2011
    Buffalo 2013
    Toronto I&II 2016
    10C: 220xxx
  • tishtish Posts: 2,519
    BC held Meng today. 

    This arrest impacted my decision not to go teach in Wuhan or Dalian last spring. I was afraid if my kid kicked another foreign national at school she might not be bussed back to me at the end of the day.

    That... and I worried about the bug and them mistaking me for a spy.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon In My PlacePosts: 21,239
    dignin said:
    This is just flat out disgusting and I don’t know how anyone can continue to rationalize this minority government. With the NDP completely complicit in Trudeau’s current dictatorship.

    Guess I’ll be writing angry emails to the PMO and my local (Liberal) MP tomorrow.

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-preparing-to-postpone-parliament-until-september-with-help-from-the-ndp

    Edit: For the whitewashed version:

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberals-ndp-team-up-in-commons-vote-1.5586038
    I hope you were just as mad when Harper prorogued parliament. Because that was way worse.
    exactly. and another point: CPC & RW media fail to mention that HoC Sitting Schedule had no sittings scheduled in July & August and HoC was not going to sit until Sept 21 pre-pandemic The hybrid parliament covers June primarily when states of emergency & limits on group gatherings are still in force.

    but sure....dictatorship. 
    1993 - Gimli, MB (Sun/Mudfest)
    2003 - Fargo, ND
    2005 - Winnipeg, MB
    2011 - Minneapolis, MN (EV)
    2011 - Winnipeg, MB
    2014 - St. Paul, MN
    2020 - Ottawa, ON

    ISO: LET ME SLEEP XMAS SINGLE 1991
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    I admit I was a bit dramatic in some of my language when I posted about our currently neutered Parliament. There’s not troops in the streets and I’m still comfortable expressing dissenting views online and in the real world. I felt I couldn’t come back to discuss until I’d done what I said I would, and have emailed my local MP expressing my issues with this move.

     I was bothered with Harper’s prorogued Parliament, but that didn’t happen in the midst  of an international pandemic. That doesn’t excuse it, but I think we’re comparing Granny Smith and Red Delicious apples here (as opposed to apples and oranges, lol).

    The current setup doesn’t allow the government to be questioned on any issue outside of the pandemic. If I believed that all other government business was suspended I could maybe live with this, but we all know that’s not the case. A deal needs to be approved with the Wet’suwet’en, and Trudeau continues to pursue a seat on the UN Security Council. The Liberals were not given a majority mandate, but have manoevered the circumstances to where they’re governing with a (literally) blank cheque and virtually no oversight.

    There’s 4 hours of debate scheduled to approve hundreds of billions of dollars in spending. I’m sorry but that is far from sufficient scrutiny for such expenditures, I’m just glad I don’t have kids that will suffer for this spending when the bill comes due.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • tishtish Posts: 2,519
    All 3 major telecom companies in Canada will use European suppliers for 5G, in snub to Huawei.
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,525
    That’s great news 
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    tish said:
    All 3 major telecom companies in Canada will use European suppliers for 5G, in snub to Huawei.
    I was glad to read this as well, Trudeau’s dithering on this helped him dodge a bullet, now he can blame the private companies when Beijing comes knocking.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • erebuserebus Posts: 215
    Next Federal election should be interesting 
    Libs racking up the debt, some other flubs
    Cons are Cons, only criticize, no solutions 
    NDP has no money behind them, but gaining popular support 

    unless a major event happens could be another minority government with any of the three leading 
    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • ZodZod Posts: 6,990
    erebus said:
    Next Federal election should be interesting 
    Libs racking up the debt, some other flubs
    Cons are Cons, only criticize, no solutions 
    NDP has no money behind them, but gaining popular support 

    unless a major event happens could be another minority government with any of the three leading 
    Most likely.  It'll come down to who represent the Cons (if they chose someone new, I've already forgotten).   Last time the Conservative candidate talked himself out of a win.   Their heart is in middle Canada (I'm in BC, we're the actual West).   Their ideals don't really jive with the rest of Canada.

    I would also predit minority governments for quite a while.

    I also don't know if I blame Trudeau for this years debt. Pretty much every country on the planet tried to pay their citizens to stay home and keep businesses from closing.   I blame trudeau for the smaller deficits for the past number of years, but this years seems unavoidable.

    What I'm nervous about is a 2nd wave.   It costs 300 billion just to stick the country together with scotch tape for 3 months.   That's almost half of what the debt already was.   I don't think they have the money to do that a 2nd time.
  • erebuserebus Posts: 215
    That is what is scary

    Imagine the Cons response to the crisis as well as the NDP

    I suppose the Libs are the current middle ground 
    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • dignindignin Posts: 8,262
    erebus said:
    That is what is scary

    Imagine the Cons response to the crisis as well as the NDP

    I suppose the Libs are the current middle ground 
    My guess is they would all have a similar response. One only has to look to the provinces to see that.
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    edited June 4
    erebus said:
    That is what is scary

    Imagine the Cons response to the crisis as well as the NDP

    I suppose the Libs are the current middle ground 
    I can’t get your last sentence to bold, but that’s something I’ve been thinking about the last couple days. In years past I could have voted for Chrétien or Martin’s Liberals, however Trudeau has taken the party so far left that Canada no longer has a centrist party in my opinion.

    That leaves me with two options when it comes to voting in good conscience. Either vote Conservative or consciously abstain (which I’ve been told denies me the right to criticize the government).

    Along with all the labels thrown at us by the “progressives” these days it’s difficult at times to openly identify as sitting on the right side of the spectrum.

    Edit: I do need to acknowledge that many on the right are just as bad at throwing names and labels at the left.
    Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    I’m not quite sure how Trudeau can attend an anti-racism rally in Ottawa right now. Watching him nod his head in agreement with some of the demands is a joke, given that Parliament isn’t allowed to deal with these issues until at least September.

    And then there’s him as a person with his uncounted instances of blackface. I’m sick of being called a racist by this guy.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    I would like to add that this could become a non-issue for me if information surfaces that all party leaders were invited to attend with Trudeau. I haven’t heard even a wiff of that yet, so it’s just another photo op for the coming election in my opinion.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 11,063
    If he goes, there is criticism. If he doesn't go, there is criticism. 

    And it's a rally organized not by government, but reportedly by the No Peace Until Justice Coalition, so any politician is free to attend. No need for an engraved invitation. The Mayor of Ottawa attended, I understand. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    If he goes, there is criticism. If he doesn't go, there is criticism. 

    And it's a rally organized not by government, but reportedly by the No Peace Until Justice Coalition, so any politician is free to attend. No need for an engraved invitation. The Mayor of Ottawa attended, I understand. 
    I agree he’d be criticized either way, but his own actions have set him up for such.Ottawa’s mayor was actually asked not to attend by organizers, according to cbc. They also reported that Jagmeet Singh attended one of the Toronto protests.

     I suppose Trudeau didn’t confirm his attendance this morning so that he wouldn’t be uninvited (it could just as easily have been a security issue I acknowledge).

    It was a bit ironic that there were calls for the police to remove someone who was being loudly critical of Trudeau as the speeches were being made. It was the crowd making the calls not Trudeau’s team, so I’m not criticizing him, I watched it live. It’s not clear what exactly happened but the person was silenced.

    Lastly though, where the fuck is proper social distancing? If Trudeau can wade into such a large crowd with no distancing, why can’t Parliament meet properly? Please pardon my anger on this point, I’m still bitter that Toronto’s opening has been delayed by the partiers a couple weeks ago. I absolutely respect the protesters right to do so but it must still be done mindful of the current crisis. I accept the lockdown protesters as well as the anti-racism ones, but have zero tolerance for the partiers.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 11,063
    If he goes, there is criticism. If he doesn't go, there is criticism. 

    And it's a rally organized not by government, but reportedly by the No Peace Until Justice Coalition, so any politician is free to attend. No need for an engraved invitation. The Mayor of Ottawa attended, I understand. 
    I agree he’d be criticized either way, but his own actions have set him up for such.Ottawa’s mayor was actually asked not to attend by organizers, according to cbc. They also reported that Jagmeet Singh attended one of the Toronto protests.

     I suppose Trudeau didn’t confirm his attendance this morning so that he wouldn’t be uninvited (it could just as easily have been a security issue I acknowledge).

    It was a bit ironic that there were calls for the police to remove someone who was being loudly critical of Trudeau as the speeches were being made. It was the crowd making the calls not Trudeau’s team, so I’m not criticizing him, I watched it live. It’s not clear what exactly happened but the person was silenced.

    Lastly though, where the fuck is proper social distancing? If Trudeau can wade into such a large crowd with no distancing, why can’t Parliament meet properly? Please pardon my anger on this point, I’m still bitter that Toronto’s opening has been delayed by the partiers a couple weeks ago. I absolutely respect the protesters right to do so but it must still be done mindful of the current crisis. I accept the lockdown protesters as well as the anti-racism ones, but have zero tolerance for the partiers.

    The article I read on CBC did not say that Watson was asked not to attend, it says After Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson noted his intention to be there, the group said he was invited via Twitter by unaffiliated individuals. "The No Peace Until Justice organizers did not reach out to him or his office." The police were specifically not invited. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    If he goes, there is criticism. If he doesn't go, there is criticism. 

    And it's a rally organized not by government, but reportedly by the No Peace Until Justice Coalition, so any politician is free to attend. No need for an engraved invitation. The Mayor of Ottawa attended, I understand. 
    I agree he’d be criticized either way, but his own actions have set him up for such.Ottawa’s mayor was actually asked not to attend by organizers, according to cbc. They also reported that Jagmeet Singh attended one of the Toronto protests.

     I suppose Trudeau didn’t confirm his attendance this morning so that he wouldn’t be uninvited (it could just as easily have been a security issue I acknowledge).

    It was a bit ironic that there were calls for the police to remove someone who was being loudly critical of Trudeau as the speeches were being made. It was the crowd making the calls not Trudeau’s team, so I’m not criticizing him, I watched it live. It’s not clear what exactly happened but the person was silenced.

    Lastly though, where the fuck is proper social distancing? If Trudeau can wade into such a large crowd with no distancing, why can’t Parliament meet properly? Please pardon my anger on this point, I’m still bitter that Toronto’s opening has been delayed by the partiers a couple weeks ago. I absolutely respect the protesters right to do so but it must still be done mindful of the current crisis. I accept the lockdown protesters as well as the anti-racism ones, but have zero tolerance for the partiers.

    The article I read on CBC did not say that Watson was asked not to attend, it says After Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson noted his intention to be there, the group said he was invited via Twitter by unaffiliated individuals. "The No Peace Until Justice organizers did not reach out to him or his office." The police were specifically not invited. 
    Thanks for clarifying, I swear I did read what I posted but don’t want to belabour that point, so I’ll leave it at that? Again thanks for clarifying.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,525
    Sadly Trudeau will never be ready.  But even sadder is that none of the major  party leaders are Ready either.  We have not had a real competent PM since Jean Chrétien...


  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    I’m trying to work myself into a headspace where Trudeau’s attendance at Friday’s protest as a genuine act of remorse and contrition on his part. It’s taken quite a bit of mental gymnastics to get there, since with Hussen at his side he wasn’t there as a citizen but as a representative of the federal government. And I don’t begrudge him his security detail one bit.

    Unfortunately it was all undone when I saw he’s taken the entire weekend as personal time (I’m not sure I actually believe he’s in Ottawa). There was an anniversary of a global event yesterday that my Prime Minister chose not to commemorate. I realize it wasn’t one of the “big” anniversaries (76 years) of D-day but it’s still an important day to mark.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • erebuserebus Posts: 215
    it it was a total photo op
    a lot of talk, no action 
    just like his dealings with the indigenous peoples (throws a lot of money around but nothing gets better)

    I agree, more should have been said about D-Day

    My disdain for him grows, ah but the others
    i hope somebody steps up in the next election 
    we need somebody that is personable and humane and leads with actions and not cliches 
    I think I am dreaming lol

    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    erebus said:
    it it was a total photo op
    a lot of talk, no action 
    just like his dealings with the indigenous peoples (throws a lot of money around but nothing gets better)

    I agree, more should have been said about D-Day

    My disdain for him grows, ah but the others
    i hope somebody steps up in the next election 
    we need somebody that is personable and humane and leads with actions and not cliches 
    I think I am dreaming lol

    I’ve already written the caption for when the image is used in the next election:  “PM Trudeau and Minister Hussen take a knee in solidarity with anti-racism protesters at a rally on Parliament Hill.”

    At least he can’t lecture us anymore about social distancing. Oh wait, that’s something he NEEDS to lecture us on and lead by example. Little wonder my sister (a big Trudeau fan) think it’s ok to associate with other households and let her boys swim in their neighbours’ pool.

     I’m honestly fearful for the covid numbers over the coming weeks. It actually occurred to me that the images of the protests could be even more powerful if they took up enough space to properly distance.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • erebuserebus Posts: 215
    Maybe term limits for party leaders would help keep things fresh?
    2 and done like the U.S
    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • erebuserebus Posts: 215
    Technically is he protesting against himself?

    he has the power to introduce change through legislation 
    again, an easy photo op to kneel, a lot more work to bring about real change

    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    erebus said:
    Maybe term limits for party leaders would help keep things fresh?
    2 and done like the U.S
    I actually like our system in that regard, lol. It allows someone who’s doing a good job to continue doing so. It does allow for people to continue being elected who shouldn’t be, but the responsibility for that falls to the people in that riding (there may be no better options).

    If anything I might look at ways for an incoming government to be limited in undoing decisions and policies of the previous government (no idea how it might work practically) so we avoid endless resets. Unfortunately my best example is not ours, it’s Trump working to undo most of Obama’s policies.

     I suppose I’m in the minority in thinking we have a good and reasonable form of representative democracy, despite it’s sometimes skewed results.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • erebuserebus Posts: 215
    I still think rep by pop, or some other weighted voting system would give us a more balanced government rather than the current system
    1996: Toronto
    2003: St.Paul
    2005: Thunder Bay
    2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa
    2009: Chicago I, Chicago II
    2010: Boston
    2011: Toronto I, Toronto II, Winnipeg
    2012: Missoula
    2013: London, Pittsburgh, Buffalo
    2014: St. Paul, Milwaukee
    2016: Quebec City, Ottawa, Toronto I, Toronto II
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    Turns out I was too quick to criticize Trudeau about D-day and Armed Forces Day. He did go to the trouble of posting statements for each on the PM’s website, during his personal time no less.

    Also sad to see Toronto’s Police Chief Mark Saunders is retiring. He’s been a good and reasonable chief over the last few years.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin TorontoPosts: 1,381
    I have to say I was not expecting this, but was pleased to receive this attachment to an email from my MP, John McKay.  File it under giving credit when it's due, lol.  The only edit I made was to remove my email address, for some reason copy and paste didn't include his signature.

    June 9, 2020
     
    Craig Baillargeon   
     
    Dear Mr. Baillargeon:
     
    Thank you for writing to me.
     
    Thank you for your civic engagement and your concern for the current sub-optimal functioning of Parliament. I agree with your concerns and have said so publicly in a recently published article in the Hill Times newspaper. You can read my remarks here: https://bit.ly/3dwsbkE 
     
    I would note however, that the Conservatives won’t even agree to reasonable measures to reopen Parliament such as electronic voting which would help keep everyone safe. Current voting procedures are antiquated and often abused for political posturing. Many times, votes are frivolous procedural issues that interrupt other important business like Parliamentary committees, which are disrespectful to Canadians presenting before Parliament. 
     
    I have and will continue to advocate for the resumption of Parliament’s functions, particularly Parliamentary committees to scrutinize the unprecedented level of government spending. 
     
    Thank you again for sharing your views with me. I will communicate them to my colleagues. 
     
    Sincerely,
     

    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016
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