D'oh, guess a phone call took me away when he said he did it previous to this incident when he was in high school, presumably in blackface and singing "Day-O". Again, even in high school I knew black/brownface was wrong. Flip the script to the other parties and try to imagine how he might have attacked the offender. What a piece of shit.
Edit (so as not to spam): What message did that send to his students?
Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Its all Harpers fault will be the theme of the presser.
He's already told us it's another opportunity for us all to learn. Keeps saying he's taking responsibility for this, but how?
I guess he did not know it was racist. What a dummy. I knew that doing that was racist since high school. So Trudeau who regularly accuses others of being racist has a racist past. Why are should we be surprised?
i didn't know this was something racist until all of these politicians started getting skewered for it. i probably didn't know because i don't recall ever seeing a white person in black or brown makeup before. but seriously, it was a stupid thing to do. but for people to be calling trudeau racist are the real morons here.
full disclosure: if it had been sheer caught with this, yes, my opinion MIGHT be different, only because i personally don't know any racist liberals. it is generally easier for me to believe malicious intent coming from the right when it comes to racism or bigotry.
i didn't know this was something racist until all of these politicians started getting skewered for it. i probably didn't know because i don't recall ever seeing a white person in black or brown makeup before. but seriously, it was a stupid thing to do. but for people to be calling trudeau racist are the real morons here.
full disclosure: if it had been sheer caught with this, yes, my opinion MIGHT be different, only because i personally don't know any racist liberals. it is generally easier for me to believe malicious intent coming from the right when it comes to racism or bigotry.
I agree with most of this.
People keep saying "I knew in high school this wasn't right", and I think back "did I know in high school that this wasn't right?", and all I can come up with was that I would have had absolutely no idea that this even existed in high school. Maybe that comes from growing up in northern BC, but I honestly don't think I would have had any opinion on this at all in high school (I'm also several years older than Trudeau). If someone did do this at that time, I also doubt that anyone in my community would have called it racist, because nothing other than maybe outright blatant discrimination was called racist at that time, that I can remember. It was not the most enlightened of places.
That's a different scenario than what we're talking about here, though, since this was apparently from 2001. An idiotic and juvenile thing to do for that time, certainly; no excuse for it.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.
Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.
All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.
Edit: Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.
Post edited by DarthMaeglin on
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
i didn't know this was something racist until all of these politicians started getting skewered for it. i probably didn't know because i don't recall ever seeing a white person in black or brown makeup before. but seriously, it was a stupid thing to do. but for people to be calling trudeau racist are the real morons here.
full disclosure: if it had been sheer caught with this, yes, my opinion MIGHT be different, only because i personally don't know any racist liberals. it is generally easier for me to believe malicious intent coming from the right when it comes to racism or bigotry.
I agree with most of this.
People keep saying "I knew in high school this wasn't right", and I think back "did I know in high school that this wasn't right?", and all I can come up with was that I would have had absolutely no idea that this even existed in high school. Maybe that comes from growing up in northern BC, but I honestly don't think I would have had any opinion on this at all in high school (I'm also several years older than Trudeau). If someone did do this at that time, I also doubt that anyone in my community would have called it racist, because nothing other than maybe outright blatant discrimination was called racist at that time, that I can remember. It was not the most enlightened of places.
That's a different scenario than what we're talking about here, though, since this was apparently from 2001. An idiotic and juvenile thing to do for that time, certainly; no excuse for it.
is it not possible he didn't know it was racist? i mean, jesus, the private school he taught at put it in their yearbook ffs. i think people are judging past mistakes by today's ultra-pc standards. 2001 was 18 years ago. that's a long time. 4 years prior i went to a halloween social and i bought an arabic costume. was that racist? or is it only racist if you apply makeup to your face? if makeup had come with the costume, maybe i would have put it on, i don't know. well, probably not, since i knew it would be hot in the gym and we were all doing mushrooms, which was bad enough of an idea itself, being a halloween event and all.
but my point is the same. i simply do not think it's fair to judge yesterday's mistakes by today's standards.
Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.
Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.
All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.
Edit: Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.
If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).
Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
i didn't know this was something racist until all of these politicians started getting skewered for it. i probably didn't know because i don't recall ever seeing a white person in black or brown makeup before. but seriously, it was a stupid thing to do. but for people to be calling trudeau racist are the real morons here.
full disclosure: if it had been sheer caught with this, yes, my opinion MIGHT be different, only because i personally don't know any racist liberals. it is generally easier for me to believe malicious intent coming from the right when it comes to racism or bigotry.
I agree with most of this.
People keep saying "I knew in high school this wasn't right", and I think back "did I know in high school that this wasn't right?", and all I can come up with was that I would have had absolutely no idea that this even existed in high school. Maybe that comes from growing up in northern BC, but I honestly don't think I would have had any opinion on this at all in high school (I'm also several years older than Trudeau). If someone did do this at that time, I also doubt that anyone in my community would have called it racist, because nothing other than maybe outright blatant discrimination was called racist at that time, that I can remember. It was not the most enlightened of places.
That's a different scenario than what we're talking about here, though, since this was apparently from 2001. An idiotic and juvenile thing to do for that time, certainly; no excuse for it.
is it not possible he didn't know it was racist? i mean, jesus, the private school he taught at put it in their yearbook ffs. i think people are judging past mistakes by today's ultra-pc standards. 2001 was 18 years ago. that's a long time. 4 years prior i went to a halloween social and i bought an arabic costume. was that racist? or is it only racist if you apply makeup to your face? if makeup had come with the costume, maybe i would have put it on, i don't know. well, probably not, since i knew it would be hot in the gym and we were all doing mushrooms, which was bad enough of an idea itself, being a halloween event and all.
but my point is the same. i simply do not think it's fair to judge yesterday's mistakes by today's standards.
Yes, I get your point, and I'd say that my point is that I find it hard to even know what those prior standards were. I actually don't really know or remember what would have been judged as acceptable at that time; it all kind of blurs together. To me, it seems like that's recent enough for it to, at the least, have seemed like a really bad idea if one was thinking it through. Maybe I'm mis-remembering what 2001 was like; I do know that I wasn't in that social environment in 2001.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.
Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.
All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.
Edit: Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.
If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).
Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism.
I completely agree, time and place play a huge role in how one learns about the issue. I do count myself as fortunate in that regard, believe me!
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.
Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.
All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.
Edit: Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.
If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).
Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism.
I completely agree, time and place play a huge role in how one learns about the issue. I do count myself as fortunate in that regard, believe me!
Whatever deficiencies there were in my upbringing, I doubt that I would have wanted them remedied by moving to Toronto
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Maybe I am an outlier, having essentially grown up (moved here just before my 6th birthday) in multicultural Toronto. Ethnicity and race were always the lowest blows when cutting each other down. Being in French Immersion my class was mostly white (moreso than the English classes it seemed), but all the minorities were represented in my class and we all got along fine, fortunately.
Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.
All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.
Edit: Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.
If memory serves correct, there was a total of one black family in my town when I was growing up - a black Baptist preacher, who moved there from the US, and his family. I would not doubt that they experienced a bucketload of racism, but I don't actually know. Very few people of other nationalities at that time. It was very white, with the exception of First Nations people, and we all know the systemic racism that they face(d).
Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism.
I completely agree, time and place play a huge role in how one learns about the issue. I do count myself as fortunate in that regard, believe me!
Whatever deficiencies there were in my upbringing, I doubt that I would have wanted them remedied by moving to Toronto
Growing up here was...interesting, for sure, at times I wished we’d never moved from Picton (a small Ontario town with heavenly beaches), lol.
And I hope I didn’t imply your (or anyone’s) upbringing was deficient, different is all, lol.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
If that was sheer or another conservative the entire Canadian media would be calling for his removal. If I am a conservative premier I’d be smiling ear to ear. That smug little prick will not be admonish the conservative premiers anymore.
I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.
This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.
So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.
correct. the only outrage I see is from highly partisan folks, and people engaged in outrage culture. I have seen brown and black folks everywhere who have stated "this doesn't bother me".
now, that douche "comedian" that got hired/fired from SNL. totally justified in my eyes.
I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.
This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.
So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.
correct.
This is where I'm at.
what's funny is that scheer can't even legitimately use this as ammunition against trudeau after his "I forgive people who apologize and move on" statement about his mp's.
I don't believe anyone would have batted an eye at this back in 2001.
This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.
So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.
You may be right. Like I said, I don't have 2001 mores firmly fixed in my mind.
I do also see "Blackface", with it's connections to the American south, slavery, etc., as having quite different historical roots than dressing up as a fictional character for a costume party (and Arabian Nights is fiction). You dressed up as an elf, as an orc, as Superman or as a djin or an "Arab prince" or whatever the hell that costume was supposed to be - almost no one would have seen a difference at that time. Now, of course, it’s seen differently, and rightly so.
I do think that any Canadian older than about 40 who says that they would have seen this as racist in high school is bullshitting.
Post edited by oftenreading on
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
A 3rd incident has now been reported. I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...
Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...
I wonder what is more racist - dressing up as Aladdin in 2001, or saying in 2019 that Canada should not accept any more refugees because the country is “full” and we don’t need any more of the disruption those people bring?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
A 3rd incident has now been reported. I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...
Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...
I wonder what is more racist - dressing up as Aladdin in 2001, or saying in 2019 that Canada should not accept any more refugees because the country is “full” and we don’t need any more of the disruption those people bring?
all politicians are scum, don't ya know? so it makes sense to just come into this thread to post memes and do nothing but bitch about everything!
Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.
I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.
The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.
"The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.
I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.
The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.
That brings up a good question, though - is the costume itself “fine”, without the makeup? It still represents a (fictional) Arab person. Is it caricature? At what point, if any, is it innocent and at what point does it cross a line?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.
I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.
The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.
ok, so forgive my ignorance on this issue, but why is the costume ok but the makeup not? shouldn't it be all or none? alladin has brown skin (although, not brown enough in the disney movie, which is ironic if you think about it now-he's imitating a character in the hue brown people wanted in the movie, and now he's vilified for portraying that character in kind), so why is the rest of the costume forgivable? it's no different than wearing a mask with a brown tint to it.
I am now seeing Ted Danson being dragged through the mud "again" for wearing black face in 1993 (with Whoopi Goldberg laughing next to him, no less) and using this as "proof" that Trudeau should have known better. JT is 2 years older than me, and I don't recall anything about the Ted Danson incident. Not a whip.
Again, I don't think people should be judged on past mistakes based on today's highly scrutinized new rules. If he did it now? Sure. or if he was wearing a white hood and his date was wearing black face, ok. But this is a fucking costume. he wasn't denigrating anyone. And all logic and common sense (and GASP! his political record with minorities!) tells us he is not a racist in the fucking least. anyone who claims otherwise just hates him for political reasons.
But hey, justin haters don't like to go on his record. Unless it's unfavourable to him. But when it's favourable, it's ignored for something ridiculous.
Maybe I need to clarify a bit. The costume itself was fine, it was the “makeup” that pushed it over the top.
I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.
The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.
I don't disagree. But it was a long time ago and he has apologised. His actions as PM give me no indication that he is a racist, very much the opposite.
I put this down as a stupid forgivable mistake. One I could have seen myself make. Maybe I had a terrible mother who didn't teach me right! The world has changed a lot from 2001 to now.
I'm way more concerned with some of his broken promises from 2015. (Election reform)
A 3rd incident has now been reported. I lovee it when the turd who has no problem accusing others of being racist is, in fact, a racist...
Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...
I wonder what is more racist - dressing up as Aladdin in 2001, or saying in 2019 that Canada should not accept any more refugees because the country is “full” and we don’t need any more of the disruption those people bring?
Comments
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Edit (so as not to spam): What message did that send to his students?
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
full disclosure: if it had been sheer caught with this, yes, my opinion MIGHT be different, only because i personally don't know any racist liberals. it is generally easier for me to believe malicious intent coming from the right when it comes to racism or bigotry.
www.headstonesband.com
People keep saying "I knew in high school this wasn't right", and I think back "did I know in high school that this wasn't right?", and all I can come up with was that I would have had absolutely no idea that this even existed in high school. Maybe that comes from growing up in northern BC, but I honestly don't think I would have had any opinion on this at all in high school (I'm also several years older than Trudeau). If someone did do this at that time, I also doubt that anyone in my community would have called it racist, because nothing other than maybe outright blatant discrimination was called racist at that time, that I can remember. It was not the most enlightened of places.
That's a different scenario than what we're talking about here, though, since this was apparently from 2001. An idiotic and juvenile thing to do for that time, certainly; no excuse for it.
Being interested in history also likely exposed me earlier to the offence black/brownface caused.
All that said, as a drama student, then teacher, Trudeau should have known the history of that practice. In my opinion, obviously.
Edit: Forgot to give credit to my parents for raising me not to be racist as another influence.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
but my point is the same. i simply do not think it's fair to judge yesterday's mistakes by today's standards.
www.headstonesband.com
Lack of diversity gives fewer opportunities to learn about racism.
Yes, I get your point, and I'd say that my point is that I find it hard to even know what those prior standards were. I actually don't really know or remember what would have been judged as acceptable at that time; it all kind of blurs together. To me, it seems like that's recent enough for it to, at the least, have seemed like a really bad idea if one was thinking it through. Maybe I'm mis-remembering what 2001 was like; I do know that I wasn't in that social environment in 2001.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Whatever deficiencies there were in my upbringing, I doubt that I would have wanted them remedied by moving to Toronto
And I hope I didn’t imply your (or anyone’s) upbringing was deficient, different is all, lol.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
Trudeau is not fit to lead.
He is from Quebec. Not exactly a tolerant place.
This is not the same as a white man in blackface in the South, not the same problematic history.
So this is a big meh for me. A stupid embarrassing mistake, we've all made them.
now, that douche "comedian" that got hired/fired from SNL. totally justified in my eyes.
www.headstonesband.com
This is where I'm at.
www.headstonesband.com
You may be right. Like I said, I don't have 2001 mores firmly fixed in my mind.
I do also see "Blackface", with it's connections to the American south, slavery, etc., as having quite different historical roots than dressing up as a fictional character for a costume party (and Arabian Nights is fiction). You dressed up as an elf, as an orc, as Superman or as a djin or an "Arab prince" or whatever the hell that costume was supposed to be - almost no one would have seen a difference at that time. Now, of course, it’s seen differently, and rightly so.
I do think that any Canadian older than about 40 who says that they would have seen this as racist in high school is bullshitting.
Starting to make Harper look like the decent human and Trudeau is the creep most of us knew he was...
www.headstonesband.com
www.headstonesband.com
I could maybe forgive the high school incident out of ignorance, but as a grown man (in a position of authority no less) he really should have known better.
The Liberals did do a good job of backing Scheer into a corner though.
10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
I am now seeing Ted Danson being dragged through the mud "again" for wearing black face in 1993 (with Whoopi Goldberg laughing next to him, no less) and using this as "proof" that Trudeau should have known better. JT is 2 years older than me, and I don't recall anything about the Ted Danson incident. Not a whip.
Again, I don't think people should be judged on past mistakes based on today's highly scrutinized new rules. If he did it now? Sure. or if he was wearing a white hood and his date was wearing black face, ok. But this is a fucking costume. he wasn't denigrating anyone. And all logic and common sense (and GASP! his political record with minorities!) tells us he is not a racist in the fucking least. anyone who claims otherwise just hates him for political reasons.
But hey, justin haters don't like to go on his record. Unless it's unfavourable to him. But when it's favourable, it's ignored for something ridiculous.
www.headstonesband.com
I put this down as a stupid forgivable mistake. One I could have seen myself make. Maybe I had a terrible mother who didn't teach me right! The world has changed a lot from 2001 to now.
I'm way more concerned with some of his broken promises from 2015. (Election reform)