Canadian Politics Redux

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

https://twitter.com/naomiaklein/status/1001504449435648000?s=21

LOL ...  I like Carbon Corporatism...

Let me ask anyone in BC or Alberta.  Is there a better way for Alberta to get their oil to foreign markets besides the US?  What if it was refined in province and then pipeline? 

That would be okay - the main issue is the bitumen... that is what the level-headed Horgan has been trying to remind everyone all along.
But the pipeline approval was a massive mistake from the very beginning simply by virtue of where they're laying and ending it. Only the the most densely populated area in all of Western Canada, eh? I see that as the biggest problem. If they'd used their brains and aimed to end it in a much less populated area, I doubt we would have seen all this drama. Sure, there still would have been valid protests about keeping the waters clean, but the backlash wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe, plus the mayors and MPs in the cities involved wouldn't have gotten on the anti-pipeline train (and so they should be, especially those in Burnaby).

Then why not spend the billions on a refinery and let kinder Morgan build a pipeline to export refined oil...

Not only that, refinery jobs are more permanent than pipeline jobs...and Alberta is a big province that could easily accommodate a refinery without much hassle (hopefully)...

I think this is on Trudeau.  Lets see if the gamble pays off or turns into a boondoggle.  

Whats this pipeline worth in terms of federal tax revenue.  Seems like he is going to lose seats in BC over this, and I do not see many gains in Alberta from this.  Seems risky politically.  Must mean it could swell federal coffers.

I thought I already answered that first question by inference - I guess not. Yeah, great, build a refinery .... It's still fucking stupid to build any huge oil pipeline terminus is a densely populated area like where this one ends, be it bitumen (worse) or refined oil (still bad). The old little storage and terminus facilities that are already are enough of an eyesore and enough of a hazard for all these people living around it (me included - I'm with a couple kilometers, and my work (an entire university campus and community) is only walking distance).
I've never met anyone who is against a new refinery in AB, FWIW.

Then what's your alternative solution to get Alberta's oil to tidewater?

PJ_Soul

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Meltdown99 said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

https://twitter.com/naomiaklein/status/1001504449435648000?s=21

LOL ...  I like Carbon Corporatism...

Let me ask anyone in BC or Alberta.  Is there a better way for Alberta to get their oil to foreign markets besides the US?  What if it was refined in province and then pipeline? 

That would be okay - the main issue is the bitumen... that is what the level-headed Horgan has been trying to remind everyone all along.
But the pipeline approval was a massive mistake from the very beginning simply by virtue of where they're laying and ending it. Only the the most densely populated area in all of Western Canada, eh? I see that as the biggest problem. If they'd used their brains and aimed to end it in a much less populated area, I doubt we would have seen all this drama. Sure, there still would have been valid protests about keeping the waters clean, but the backlash wouldn't have been anywhere near as severe, plus the mayors and MPs in the cities involved wouldn't have gotten on the anti-pipeline train (and so they should be, especially those in Burnaby).

Then why not spend the billions on a refinery and let kinder Morgan build a pipeline to export refined oil...

Not only that, refinery jobs are more permanent than pipeline jobs...and Alberta is a big province that could easily accommodate a refinery without much hassle (hopefully)...

I think this is on Trudeau.  Lets see if the gamble pays off or turns into a boondoggle.  

Whats this pipeline worth in terms of federal tax revenue.  Seems like he is going to lose seats in BC over this, and I do not see many gains in Alberta from this.  Seems risky politically.  Must mean it could swell federal coffers.

I thought I already answered that first question by inference - I guess not. Yeah, great, build a refinery .... It's still fucking stupid to build any huge oil pipeline terminus is a densely populated area like where this one ends, be it bitumen (worse) or refined oil (still bad). The old little storage and terminus facilities that are already are enough of an eyesore and enough of a hazard for all these people living around it (me included - I'm with a couple kilometers, and my work (an entire university campus and community) is only walking distance).
I've never met anyone who is against a new refinery in AB, FWIW.

Then what's your alternative solution to get Alberta's oil to tidewater?

My idealistic alternative solution is to not build any new pipeline at all, make do with the one we've already got (including required maintenance) and spend all that money on alternative energy innovation and infrastructure - Alberta could get on the train full steam ahead if it wanted to as well, and if it didn't, then fuck 'em I guess, but I think Albertans would manage to adjust soon enough.
My realistic alternative solution is that the pipeline should be much farther north. Trudeau was a fool to cancel the pipeline plan up north and go ahead with the one that ends in Metro Vancouver, where most of the province's population lives and where the environment already has way too much pressure on it. That was a huge mistake. The decision was based on what would be easiest as far as transport goes, and that's it, as far as I can tell. Also, tons of people supported building a refinery farther up north in BC as another alternative. The federal and provincial governments ignored that option altogether.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

On the local level, we had a beautiful young lady run over by a loser in our city. He fled The scene of the crime and tried to destroy the evidence.

The crime has been tough for our community to digest.

Great police work ascertained the culprit and the case was turned over to the courts where... of course... another failure occurred: 10 months.

"In her sentence, Justice Heather MacNaughton noted that Gourlay is "genuinely remorseful" for what he did. She added in the courtroom that based on letters of support Gourlay has good character and this is "unlikely to ever happen again." "

He even breached conditions of parole when he was roaming around as a free man while awaiting trial.

Our judicial system is a f**king joke.

I was summoned for jury duty a month ago. I was there with over 100 people who were also summoned so they might serve on one of two juries. All those people and their time, all the investigative work, all the court time and expense... for what? 10 months? We shouldn't even bother.

F**king joke of the colossal variety.

https://cfjctoday.com/article/622571/father-jennifer-gatey-says-10-month-jail-sentence-not-justice

Meltdown99

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

On the local level, we had a beautiful young lady run over by a loser in our city. He fled The scene of the crime and tried to destroy the evidence.

The crime has been tough for our community to digest.

Great police work ascertained the culprit and the case was turned over to the courts where... of course... another failure occurred: 10 months.

"In her sentence, Justice Heather MacNaughton noted that Gourlay is "genuinely remorseful" for what he did. She added in the courtroom that based on letters of support Gourlay has good character and this is "unlikely to ever happen again." "

He even breached conditions of parole when he was roaming around as a free man while awaiting trial.

Our judicial system is a f**king joke.

I was summoned for jury duty a month ago. I was there with over 100 people who were also summoned so they might serve on one of two juries. All those people and their time, all the investigative work, all the court time and expense... for what? 10 months? We shouldn't even bother.

F**king joke of the colossal variety.

https://cfjctoday.com/article/622571/father-jennifer-gatey-says-10-month-jail-sentence-not-justice

That ridiculous ... what a joke.  

PJ_Soul

Sentences in Canada are often a joke. Not always ... but way too often. And it's kind of bizarre, because it is very clear that a vast majority of Canadians think so... so wtf the judges and prosecutors up to, exactly? Most of these terrible sentences have nothing or almost nothing to do with the maximum allowable sentences, they're about the judges being too lenient, and with prosecutors being too wimpy with the charges. But I just have never really seen a good and verifiable explanation as to why they keep on making this what is seen by most as a widespread problem in the judicial system.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

Sentences in Canada are often a joke. Not always ... but way too often. And it's kind of bizarre, because it is very clear that a vast majority of Canadians think so... so wtf the judges and prosecutors up to, exactly? Most of these terrible sentences have nothing or almost nothing to do with the maximum allowable sentences, they're about the judges being too lenient, and with prosecutors being too wimpy with the charges. But I just have never really seen a good and verifiable explanation as to why they keep on making this what is seen by most as a widespread problem in the judicial system.

is that we value rehabilitation over incarceration? is it financial? or is it all about public safety over punishment? I don't know either. But if someone mowed down my loved one, fled the scene, violated their parole, and was given 10 months, which they'll likely serve a fraction of, I'd be fucking livid for my remaining days. 

oftenreading

Potentially interesting changes afoot in BC, as we are set to vote in a referendum on a change to the first past the post system this fall.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-voters-to-cast-ballots-in-fall-on-whether-to-change-election-system-1.23319961

Provincial liberals, of course, oppose this, given that the current system worked well for them for a long time. Their criticisms seem a stretch, to me. I hope we get a vote in favour of proportional representation.

HughFreakingDillon

oftenreading said:

Potentially interesting changes afoot in BC, as we are set to vote in a referendum on a change to the first past the post system this fall.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-voters-to-cast-ballots-in-fall-on-whether-to-change-election-system-1.23319961

Provincial liberals, of course, oppose this, given that the current system worked well for them for a long time. Their criticisms seem a stretch, to me. I hope we get a vote in favour of proportional representation.

didn't Trudeau say he was going to end this federally, and then backtracked when he won because of it?

dignin

HughFreakingDillon said:

oftenreading said:

Potentially interesting changes afoot in BC, as we are set to vote in a referendum on a change to the first past the post system this fall.

http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/b-c-voters-to-cast-ballots-in-fall-on-whether-to-change-election-system-1.23319961

Provincial liberals, of course, oppose this, given that the current system worked well for them for a long time. Their criticisms seem a stretch, to me. I hope we get a vote in favour of proportional representation.

didn't Trudeau say he was going to end this federally, and then backtracked when he won because of it?

Sure did.

dignin

Trump administration will put steel and aluminum tariffs on Canada, Mexico and the EU

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/31/trump-administration-will-put-steel-and-aluminum-tariffs-on-canada-mexico-and-the-eu.html

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

Sentences in Canada are often a joke. Not always ... but way too often. And it's kind of bizarre, because it is very clear that a vast majority of Canadians think so... so wtf the judges and prosecutors up to, exactly? Most of these terrible sentences have nothing or almost nothing to do with the maximum allowable sentences, they're about the judges being too lenient, and with prosecutors being too wimpy with the charges. But I just have never really seen a good and verifiable explanation as to why they keep on making this what is seen by most as a widespread problem in the judicial system.

is that we value rehabilitation over incarceration? is it financial? or is it all about public safety over punishment? I don't know either. But if someone mowed down my loved one, fled the scene, violated their parole, and was given 10 months, which they'll likely serve a fraction of, I'd be fucking livid for my remaining days. 

I would love to say it's because we value rehabilitation over incarceration - I know I do... And I would definitely think that about the system, if only people were actually being rehabilitated, and those who can't be were being kept in prison. Obviously that is way too often not the case. So if that is the philosophy in the judicial system, they sure aren't practicing what they preach a lot of the time.

Meltdown99

Meltdown99

I have been hit by a car as pedestrian ... knocked out cold ... fucking scary.  Fortunately for me, I will only have knee,whiplash and psychological injuries...but I am upright and functional.  Even though I was in the right and the driver was at fault, she was only charged with making an unsafe turn, instead of careless driving ... at first I was livid ... but she'll pay through  much of her insurance premiums ...

But I tend to think our justice is a combination and rehabilitation and $$$...

Still, no person who kills another should be given a light sentence (unless its an accident).

Meltdown99

Canada Fires Back Against Trump's Steel, Aluminum Tariffs

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/05/31/us-steel-aluminium-tariffs_a_23447799/

Strange times we are living in if anyone thinks Canada is a national security threat to the US ... LOL

Thirty Bills Unpaid

A major cause and effect of the Depression, when we went from a booming economy of the 1920s to a Depression in the 1930s, was a trade war. Everybody started to raise tariffs against everybody else. That’s the risk: everybody loses.

We’re at the mercy of the chaos of the White House. It doesn’t make any logical sense. It has more to do with American domestic politics than it does with trade and economics.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/what-do-trump’s-tariffs-mean-for-canada/ar-AAy50Ns?ocid=spartanntp

Meltdown99

NAFTA will soon be on the scrap heap of history ...

Meltdown99

'I'm pretty well pissed off': Strategic or not, here's how Trump's tariffs on U.S. allies could backfire

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-steel-tariffs-canada-u-s-allies-1.4686734

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Meltdown99 said:

I have been hit by a car as pedestrian ... knocked out cold ... fucking scary.  Fortunately for me, I will only have knee,whiplash and psychological injuries...but I am upright and functional.  Even though I was in the right and the driver was at fault, she was only charged with making an unsafe turn, instead of careless driving ... at first I was livid ... but she'll pay through  much of her insurance premiums ...

But I tend to think our justice is a combination and rehabilitation and $$$...

Still, no person who kills another should be given a light sentence (unless its an accident).

A tweet from Jen's dad yesterday (I think it states exactly how absurd our judicial system is):

https://twitter.com/cgatey/status/1002022710489235456?s=21

It's in response to the 10 month sentence handed down to the stepdad who stole his stepdaughter's panties.

oftenreading

Boyle is released from custody on bail conditions that include electronic monitoring.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/02/former-taliban-captive-joshua-boyle-granted-bail

Thirty Bills Unpaid

oftenreading said:

Boyle is released from custody on bail conditions that include electronic monitoring.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jun/02/former-taliban-captive-joshua-boyle-granted-bail

I simply don't know what to make of this case.

A backpacking trip through Afghanistan? Good decision! Have children while held captive by Taliban? Good decision! Get home safely after your ordeal and get violent? Good decision.