Cocks not Glocks - An open carry protest

Thirty Bills Unpaid

dudeman said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Dudeman, you a shill for the NRA? You seem so talking point on. What's your personal experience that makes you so passionate about allowing "every law abiding citizen" to conceal carry or be armed? How many college campus shoot em ups have there been and what's the percentage as an average day on a college campus on any given day in America over the last 50 years or past 6 months?

No, I'm not a shill for the NRA. LOL! I am the brother of a murdered sister. The guy who has lost three close, personal friends to murderers. (Of those, only one was shot and he was killed with a shotgun.) One of my good friends' wife was the victim of a carjacking. The criminals took her car and her along with it. She was "returned" three days later after having been raped and brutalized by multiple people. My former secretary was the victim of a home invasion while she was at home. She got out without being harmed, they just stole some of her things. The responding officer told her she was one of eight home invasions that happen in his district every day. Every day! His advice? "Get a gun and learn how to use it". There are more but I think that's enough examples.

As for campus shootings, they happen too often. I think everyone would agree. They are also mostly in Gun Free Zones. Did you know that 92% of mass shootings occur in Gun Free Zones? I don't think that is coincidence. (That figure is from a Crime Prevention Research Center study.)

IMO, the deterrent factor of a potential shooter being immediately met with armed resistance might go a long way toward avoiding more killings.

Of course this is my opinion but it is an opinion based on personal life experience and loss. I know I am, by far, in the minority for my beliefs on AMT. That's OK.

I think it's great that so many of you are actively participating in a discussion with the intention of saving lives and preserving a high quality of living and standards. In the end, we all have a common goal in mind: a peaceful existence.

Dear Gawd.

HughFreakingDillon

dudeman said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Dudeman, you a shill for the NRA? You seem so talking point on. What's your personal experience that makes you so passionate about allowing "every law abiding citizen" to conceal carry or be armed? How many college campus shoot em ups have there been and what's the percentage as an average day on a college campus on any given day in America over the last 50 years or past 6 months?

No, I'm not a shill for the NRA. LOL! I am the brother of a murdered sister. The guy who has lost three close, personal friends to murderers. (Of those, only one was shot and he was killed with a shotgun.) One of my good friends' wife was the victim of a carjacking. The criminals took her car and her along with it. She was "returned" three days later after having been raped and brutalized by multiple people. My former secretary was the victim of a home invasion while she was at home. She got out without being harmed, they just stole some of her things. The responding officer told her she was one of eight home invasions that happen in his district every day. Every day! His advice? "Get a gun and learn how to use it". There are more but I think that's enough examples.

As for campus shootings, they happen too often. I think everyone would agree. They are also mostly in Gun Free Zones. Did you know that 92% of mass shootings occur in Gun Free Zones? I don't think that is coincidence. (That figure is from a Crime Prevention Research Center study.)

IMO, the deterrent factor of a potential shooter being immediately met with armed resistance might go a long way toward avoiding more killings.

Of course this is my opinion but it is an opinion based on personal life experience and loss. I know I am, by far, in the minority for my beliefs on AMT. That's OK.

I think it's great that so many of you are actively participating in a discussion with the intention of saving lives and preserving a high quality of living and standards. In the end, we all have a common goal in mind: a peaceful existence.

Jesus. that's rough, man. context is everything. totally get why you believe what you believe. I probably would too.

chadwick

after reading what dudeman put up i can't say anything

hedonist

Yup. Good reminder about walking a mile or more in someone else's shoes. Just never know.

I'm very sorry for your losses, dudeman.

dudeman

Man, I didn't mean to stop the discussion here. This is why I don't post about my personal life.

Thank you for your kind words.

dudeman

Oh yeah. Campus carry is being sought in Florida, too. It passed measures last month and is on the legislative agenda for 2016.

Wisconsin is also seeking campus carry.

Edited to correct facts. It was Florida's Open Carry Bill that passed the first measures in the House last week.

chadwick

thank you, dudeman, for sharing with us. we're a good group. post whatever you want

Bentleyspop

dudeman said:

Oh yeah. Campus carry is being sought in Florida, too. It passed the first measure in the House last week.

With all the crazy shit that people manage to do in Florida is this really a good idea??

A Florida man....

PJ_Soul

dudeman said:

Oh yeah. Campus carry is being sought in Florida, too. It passed the first measure in the House last week.

Sorry about your loss dudeman.

I am generally against carry. Period. As a Canadian, I think the fewer people walking around with guns the better.

As someone who works at a university, and therefore as someone who has a somewhat realistic concern about a mass shooting happening where I work, I am also against arming school security for a couple of reasons. For one thing, we just don't need that kind of atmosphere at an institution for higher learning. It would just be harmful to the culture of the campus. Secondly, I wouldn't want to arm the people who work security at universities specifically. I know who these people are, what they're like. While they do their best, I definitely cannot say I'd be comfortable knowing that they have been given the power to shoot people. They are NOT cops, and they aren't paid to carry that level of responsibility. Training them to the extent that I think they'd need (not just some intro courses - I think they'd need extensive training for gun use and for gun use during various crises and non-crises (i.e. we don't want this people shooting a student because they read a situation wrong or went all Rambo on pub night). Basically the kind of training actual police officers get) and then paying them for the expectations that we'd consequently have for them would completely break the university's security budget. Yes, the alternative would be to train them THAT well and pay them much more.... but do you think schools would actually do that?? I absolutely do not. They'd provide the minimum level of training they thought they could get away with and keep paying shitty wages for their security guards, and you're left with a school with a damaged culture of learning and a bunch of armed incompetents who are rendered a danger in and of themselves.

northerndragon

dudeman said:

northerndragon said:

dudeman said:

Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.

This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.

Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.

Smellyman said:

What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?

yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!

There you go.

To be fair Smellyman's post went up after I had posted my comment. Please do not attempt to distort the information presented. You have a point of view and a reason for said point of view. If you want those points to continue to be a valid argument don't resort to cheap side show tactics. Thanks.

brianlux

Smellyman said:

What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?

yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!

Unfortunately, it would be a bit like the Wounded Knee Massacre of December 29, 1890. Some of the 7th Cavalry Regiment members shot each other down, only WAY too many innocent people were killed- as in all the Indians.

dudeman

northerndragon said:

dudeman said:

northerndragon said:

dudeman said:

Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.

This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.

Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.

Smellyman said:

What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?

yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!

There you go.

To be fair Smellyman's post went up after I had posted my comment. Please do not attempt to distort the information presented. You have a point of view and a reason for said point of view. If you want those points to continue to be a valid argument don't resort to cheap side show tactics. Thanks.

The post I referenced in this thread was only one of many that say the same thing. Not in this thread, though. I see this opinion in a lot of places but you're right.

This is your show. Carry on.

Smellyman

I just know one thing, if I am at a bar, theater, supermarket, mall or sporting event etc. Most people and especially at parties and bars are level headed and calm cool collected. Again no worries.

I will feel a lot safter if I knew a lot of people were carrying. If I was carrying....damn near invincible.

How can this not be a good thing?

woot.

northerndragon

dudeman said:

northerndragon said:

dudeman said:

northerndragon said:

dudeman said:

Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.

This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.

Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.

Smellyman said:

What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?

yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!

There you go.

To be fair Smellyman's post went up after I had posted my comment. Please do not attempt to distort the information presented. You have a point of view and a reason for said point of view. If you want those points to continue to be a valid argument don't resort to cheap side show tactics. Thanks.

The post I referenced in this thread was only one of many that say the same thing. Not in this thread, though. I see this opinion in a lot of places but you're right.

This is your show. Carry on.

This opinion is just as bad as the must carry all the time one in my opinion. Any idea that takes it to the extreme and promotes some form of mass hysteria is very detrimental for our society. I was not trying to push you out of the conversation you have presented your point of view very well and have a very good reason for feeling they way you do. I hope you continue to contribute.

brianlux

Carrying at school or in a restaurant or coffee shop etc. seems like a horrible idea. On the other hand, if I frequented spas I might not mind people carrying. At least you would know.

Smellyman

brianlux said:

Carrying at school or in a restaurant or coffee shop etc. seems like a horrible idea. On the other hand, if I frequented spas I might not mind people carrying. At least you would know.

I will be packing my howitzer......or is it pea shooter? I forget

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Smellyman said:

brianlux said:

Carrying at school or in a restaurant or coffee shop etc. seems like a horrible idea. On the other hand, if I frequented spas I might not mind people carrying. At least you would know.

I will be packing my howitzer......or is it pea shooter? I forget

All depends on how warm it is.

brianlux

Welcome to the late night version of this thread.

dudeman

http://mystudentapt.com/2015/10/06/theres-a-way-to-stop-mass-shootings-and-you-wont-like-it/

This is what needs to happen to stop the murders and suicides in this country. Parents, teachers, friends and family members should read this article and put this into effect.

As a bonus, we won't have to have any more gun threads on AMT. Everyone wins.

dudeman

callen said:

dudeman said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

dudeman said:

You realize that licensed CCW permit holders are among the most law abiding members of society, right?

Either way, I hope this protest makes everyone fell better.

but with the vast majority of the school executives, and the vast majority of POLICE CHIEFS opposing this, and the vast majority of students against this, you still think it's a good idea?

They're not issuing Glocks to students at orientation, they are allowing lawful concealed carry by law abiding students and staff. Those people are subject to scrutiny in the process of obtaining their permit. Want background checks, these people have had them.

And, since the school executives, police chiefs and majority of students have failed to keep college campuses safe from mass shootings thus far, yes, I think CCW holders should not be prevented from protecting themselves.

Allowing teens, emotionally charged teens to legally carry because they have perceived fear they may be shot at school just made me realize we failed as a civilized society.

No one is talking about allowing "emotionally charged teens" to carry guns on campus. They are talking about allowing lawful concealed carry on campus by permit holders. In the state of Texas, you have to be 21 to obtain a Concealed Handgun License.