Dudeman, you a shill for the NRA? You seem so talking point on. What's your personal experience that makes you so passionate about allowing "every law abiding citizen" to conceal carry or be armed? How many college campus shoot em ups have there been and what's the percentage as an average day on a college campus on any given day in America over the last 50 years or past 6 months?
No, I'm not a shill for the NRA. LOL! I am the brother of a murdered sister. The guy who has lost three close, personal friends to murderers. (Of those, only one was shot and he was killed with a shotgun.) One of my good friends' wife was the victim of a carjacking. The criminals took her car and her along with it. She was "returned" three days later after having been raped and brutalized by multiple people. My former secretary was the victim of a home invasion while she was at home. She got out without being harmed, they just stole some of her things. The responding officer told her she was one of eight home invasions that happen in his district every day. Every day! His advice? "Get a gun and learn how to use it". There are more but I think that's enough examples.
As for campus shootings, they happen too often. I think everyone would agree. They are also mostly in Gun Free Zones. Did you know that 92% of mass shootings occur in Gun Free Zones? I don't think that is coincidence. (That figure is from a Crime Prevention Research Center study.)
IMO, the deterrent factor of a potential shooter being immediately met with armed resistance might go a long way toward avoiding more killings.
Of course this is my opinion but it is an opinion based on personal life experience and loss. I know I am, by far, in the minority for my beliefs on AMT. That's OK.
I think it's great that so many of you are actively participating in a discussion with the intention of saving lives and preserving a high quality of living and standards. In the end, we all have a common goal in mind: a peaceful existence.
Dudeman, you a shill for the NRA? You seem so talking point on. What's your personal experience that makes you so passionate about allowing "every law abiding citizen" to conceal carry or be armed? How many college campus shoot em ups have there been and what's the percentage as an average day on a college campus on any given day in America over the last 50 years or past 6 months?
No, I'm not a shill for the NRA. LOL! I am the brother of a murdered sister. The guy who has lost three close, personal friends to murderers. (Of those, only one was shot and he was killed with a shotgun.) One of my good friends' wife was the victim of a carjacking. The criminals took her car and her along with it. She was "returned" three days later after having been raped and brutalized by multiple people. My former secretary was the victim of a home invasion while she was at home. She got out without being harmed, they just stole some of her things. The responding officer told her she was one of eight home invasions that happen in his district every day. Every day! His advice? "Get a gun and learn how to use it". There are more but I think that's enough examples.
As for campus shootings, they happen too often. I think everyone would agree. They are also mostly in Gun Free Zones. Did you know that 92% of mass shootings occur in Gun Free Zones? I don't think that is coincidence. (That figure is from a Crime Prevention Research Center study.)
IMO, the deterrent factor of a potential shooter being immediately met with armed resistance might go a long way toward avoiding more killings.
Of course this is my opinion but it is an opinion based on personal life experience and loss. I know I am, by far, in the minority for my beliefs on AMT. That's OK.
I think it's great that so many of you are actively participating in a discussion with the intention of saving lives and preserving a high quality of living and standards. In the end, we all have a common goal in mind: a peaceful existence.
Jesus. that's rough, man. context is everything. totally get why you believe what you believe. I probably would too.
Oh yeah. Campus carry is being sought in Florida, too. It passed the first measure in the House last week.
Sorry about your loss dudeman.
I am generally against carry. Period. As a Canadian, I think the fewer people walking around with guns the better.
As someone who works at a university, and therefore as someone who has a somewhat realistic concern about a mass shooting happening where I work, I am also against arming school security for a couple of reasons. For one thing, we just don't need that kind of atmosphere at an institution for higher learning. It would just be harmful to the culture of the campus. Secondly, I wouldn't want to arm the people who work security at universities specifically. I know who these people are, what they're like. While they do their best, I definitely cannot say I'd be comfortable knowing that they have been given the power to shoot people. They are NOT cops, and they aren't paid to carry that level of responsibility. Training them to the extent that I think they'd need (not just some intro courses - I think they'd need extensive training for gun use and for gun use during various crises and non-crises (i.e. we don't want this people shooting a student because they read a situation wrong or went all Rambo on pub night). Basically the kind of training actual police officers get) and then paying them for the expectations that we'd consequently have for them would completely break the university's security budget. Yes, the alternative would be to train them THAT well and pay them much more.... but do you think schools would actually do that?? I absolutely do not. They'd provide the minimum level of training they thought they could get away with and keep paying shitty wages for their security guards, and you're left with a school with a damaged culture of learning and a bunch of armed incompetents who are rendered a danger in and of themselves.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.
This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.
Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.
What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?
yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!
There you go.
To be fair Smellyman's post went up after I had posted my comment. Please do not attempt to distort the information presented. You have a point of view and a reason for said point of view. If you want those points to continue to be a valid argument don't resort to cheap side show tactics. Thanks.
Anything you lose from being honest You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?
yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!
Unfortunately, it would be a bit like the Wounded Knee Massacre of December 29, 1890. Some of the 7th Cavalry Regiment members shot each other down, only WAY too many innocent people were killed- as in all the Indians.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.
This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.
Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.
What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?
yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!
There you go.
To be fair Smellyman's post went up after I had posted my comment. Please do not attempt to distort the information presented. You have a point of view and a reason for said point of view. If you want those points to continue to be a valid argument don't resort to cheap side show tactics. Thanks.
The post I referenced in this thread was only one of many that say the same thing. Not in this thread, though. I see this opinion in a lot of places but you're right.
This is your show. Carry on.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I just know one thing, if I am at a bar, theater, supermarket, mall or sporting event etc. Most people and especially at parties and bars are level headed and calm cool collected. Again no worries.
I will feel a lot safter if I knew a lot of people were carrying. If I was carrying....damn near invincible.
Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.
This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.
Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.
What we need is more moms, dads, teachers, students and nervous nellies armed. The crossfire shootouts will be just like the old west. What could go wrong?
yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaawwwwww!
There you go.
To be fair Smellyman's post went up after I had posted my comment. Please do not attempt to distort the information presented. You have a point of view and a reason for said point of view. If you want those points to continue to be a valid argument don't resort to cheap side show tactics. Thanks.
The post I referenced in this thread was only one of many that say the same thing. Not in this thread, though. I see this opinion in a lot of places but you're right.
This is your show. Carry on.
This opinion is just as bad as the must carry all the time one in my opinion. Any idea that takes it to the extreme and promotes some form of mass hysteria is very detrimental for our society. I was not trying to push you out of the conversation you have presented your point of view very well and have a very good reason for feeling they way you do. I hope you continue to contribute.
Anything you lose from being honest You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
Carrying at school or in a restaurant or coffee shop etc. seems like a horrible idea. On the other hand, if I frequented spas I might not mind people carrying. At least you would know.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Carrying at school or in a restaurant or coffee shop etc. seems like a horrible idea. On the other hand, if I frequented spas I might not mind people carrying. At least you would know.
I will be packing my howitzer......or is it pea shooter? I forget
Carrying at school or in a restaurant or coffee shop etc. seems like a horrible idea. On the other hand, if I frequented spas I might not mind people carrying. At least you would know.
I will be packing my howitzer......or is it pea shooter? I forget
This is what needs to happen to stop the murders and suicides in this country. Parents, teachers, friends and family members should read this article and put this into effect.
As a bonus, we won't have to have any more gun threads on AMT. Everyone wins.
Post edited by dudeman on
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
You realize that licensed CCW permit holders are among the most law abiding members of society, right?
Either way, I hope this protest makes everyone fell better.
but with the vast majority of the school executives, and the vast majority of POLICE CHIEFS opposing this, and the vast majority of students against this, you still think it's a good idea?
They're not issuing Glocks to students at orientation, they are allowing lawful concealed carry by law abiding students and staff. Those people are subject to scrutiny in the process of obtaining their permit. Want background checks, these people have had them.
And, since the school executives, police chiefs and majority of students have failed to keep college campuses safe from mass shootings thus far, yes, I think CCW holders should not be prevented from protecting themselves.
Allowing teens, emotionally charged teens to legally carry because they have perceived fear they may be shot at school just made me realize we failed as a civilized society.
No one is talking about allowing "emotionally charged teens" to carry guns on campus. They are talking about allowing lawful concealed carry on campus by permit holders. In the state of Texas, you have to be 21 to obtain a Concealed Handgun License.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Oh yeah. Campus carry is being sought in Florida, too. It passed the first measure in the House last week.
Sorry about your loss dudeman.
I am generally against carry. Period. As a Canadian, I think the fewer people walking around with guns the better.
As someone who works at a university, and therefore as someone who has a somewhat realistic concern about a mass shooting happening where I work, I am also against arming school security for a couple of reasons. For one thing, we just don't need that kind of atmosphere at an institution for higher learning. It would just be harmful to the culture of the campus. Secondly, I wouldn't want to arm the people who work security at universities specifically. I know who these people are, what they're like. While they do their best, I definitely cannot say I'd be comfortable knowing that they have been given the power to shoot people. They are NOT cops, and they aren't paid to carry that level of responsibility. Training them to the extent that I think they'd need (not just some intro courses - I think they'd need extensive training for gun use and for gun use during various crises and non-crises (i.e. we don't want this people shooting a student because they read a situation wrong or went all Rambo on pub night). Basically the kind of training actual police officers get) and then paying them for the expectations that we'd consequently have for them would completely break the university's security budget. Yes, the alternative would be to train them THAT well and pay them much more.... but do you think schools would actually do that?? I absolutely do not. They'd provide the minimum level of training they thought they could get away with and keep paying shitty wages for their security guards, and you're left with a school with a damaged culture of learning and a bunch of armed incompetents who are rendered a danger in and of themselves.
From where I sit, the current situation for campus safety sucks. The campus police, administrators and unarmed security guards have so far, failed to keep their students safe. I can't imagine why anyone would want to willingly deny the right of self preservation from others.
If arming and training security guards wouldn't work because of the caliber of people who become guards and because of funding concerns, we have failed more spectacularly than I thought.
In order to have a healthy "culture of learning" I think the students need to be alive.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Every situation is different. He decided to stay where he was. It was a judgment call and he made it. Had he been in the immediate vicinity of the shooter, he may have made a different call. Either way, he didn't just start firing indiscriminately at people as most of you seem to think will happen in these situations.
This is not what I have said, nor have I read anyone say this. The concern is the availability of guns in an environment where emotions often rule over logic and common sense. I consider suicide just as much of a loss as being shot by someone else. A life was lost and people will be traumatized at a pivotal growth period in their lives. The issue is not more people being able to fire back. The issue is a culture where essentially children are being not only allowed but encouraged to carry weapons.
Also I would like to point out that this is not just about CCW, but that they are allowed to openly carry weapons on campus. I would rather see everyone with a dildo than a gun.
The first sentence in the article in your first post says otherwise.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Oh yeah. Campus carry is being sought in Florida, too. It passed the first measure in the House last week.
Sorry about your loss dudeman.
I am generally against carry. Period. As a Canadian, I think the fewer people walking around with guns the better.
As someone who works at a university, and therefore as someone who has a somewhat realistic concern about a mass shooting happening where I work, I am also against arming school security for a couple of reasons. For one thing, we just don't need that kind of atmosphere at an institution for higher learning. It would just be harmful to the culture of the campus. Secondly, I wouldn't want to arm the people who work security at universities specifically. I know who these people are, what they're like. While they do their best, I definitely cannot say I'd be comfortable knowing that they have been given the power to shoot people. They are NOT cops, and they aren't paid to carry that level of responsibility. Training them to the extent that I think they'd need (not just some intro courses - I think they'd need extensive training for gun use and for gun use during various crises and non-crises (i.e. we don't want this people shooting a student because they read a situation wrong or went all Rambo on pub night). Basically the kind of training actual police officers get) and then paying them for the expectations that we'd consequently have for them would completely break the university's security budget. Yes, the alternative would be to train them THAT well and pay them much more.... but do you think schools would actually do that?? I absolutely do not. They'd provide the minimum level of training they thought they could get away with and keep paying shitty wages for their security guards, and you're left with a school with a damaged culture of learning and a bunch of armed incompetents who are rendered a danger in and of themselves.
From where I sit, the current situation for campus safety sucks. The campus police, administrators and unarmed security guards have so far, failed to keep their students safe. I can't imagine why anyone would want to willingly deny the right of self preservation from others.
If arming and training security guards wouldn't work because of the caliber of people who become guards and because of funding concerns, we have failed more spectacularly than I thought.
In order to have a healthy "culture of learning" I think the students need to be alive.
First and foremost, I'm sorry for your losses. No one should experience those and I'm sorry you did. Now I have a better understanding if where you're coming from and why you have the opinions that you do.
Your post that I have quoted is a false narrative. Colleges around the country, day in and day out, teach and protect their students without incident. Mass shootings while rare, particularly for college campuses are on the rise, the number of incidences, as a percentage, are infinitesimal when taken as a % of the whole, say by number of teaching hours or students taught times number of days without incident. Still, horrific and tragic but not one where allowing concealed carry on campus is the solution, IMHO.
Most mass shootings, defined as 4 or more victims, are domestic in nature or where the victims knew the shooter. Your previous post to this one posits that there is nothing that can be done by others to enhance gun safety and if all just spoke to those around us, killings would stop. That's another false narrative that denies the true nature of the problem and suggests there are no reasonable solutions to the problem at hand. First and foremost, that article starts out by claiming you can't ban guns. True, no one wants to ban guns. It's a scare tactic that diverts attention away from what can be done: universal federal mandatory stringent background checks for all gun purchases, private and gun show included; mandatory federal 30 day cooling off period for all gun purchases; federal training, licensing and insurance requirements for all gun purchases (I'd grandfather current gun ownership); increased federal and state funding for ATF and local law enforcement to reduce straw purchases and arms trafficking as well as auditing of gun dealers records of sale and stiff fines and punishment for violaters. We have to start somewhere and if we start now, it won't change overnight but it might be different 20 years from now, much like drunk driving deaths and motor vehicle accidents have been reduced.
The 2nd Amendment guarantees your right to bear arms but it shouldn't allow you to be irresponsible with said arms. Minimum punishments, hefty fines and jail time for those stupid yahoos that leave their guns laying around so a toddler can shoot someone. Sorry your kid shot your other kid, now go spend some time in jail, idiot.
hefty fines and jail time for those stupid yahoos that leave their car key's laying around, fail to lock up their liquor cabinet when they leave, fail to hide their spoons and forks from over weight family members, smoke weed because most growers own and use guns to protect their harvest, T.V promotes violence, fish feel pain too ! and ........it's all Obama's fault, I think I got it now.
when is the last time a concealed carry guy stopped a mass shooting?
i could give you a few movie titles where a concealed carry guy stopped a mass use of a d@ldo...
i kid, i kid...
here's a few examples: (let me know if you want more examples) Oct. 1, 1997 Pearl High School, Pearl, Mississippi Luke Woodham fatally stabbed his mother at home before opening fire at his high school, killing two students and injuring seven others. The attack was stopped when Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his truck and confronted Woodham, detaining him until authorities could arrive.
Myrick’s action stopped Woodham from going across the street to the middle school as he had planned.
April 24, 1998 Parker Middle School: Edinboro, Pennsylvania A 14-year-old student showed up to his middle school dance carrying a .25-caliber pistol. He opened fire inside the dance, killing one teacher and wounding another as well as two students. The rampage ended when James Strand, owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, grabbed his personal shotgun and confronted the 14-year-old killer. Strand held the teen at gunpoint for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground and searching him for additional weapons.
Jan. 16, 2002: Appalachian School of Law: Grundy, Virginia A 43-year-old former student armed with a .380 handgun killed Dean Anthony Sutin and Professor Thomas Blackwell with point blank shots and went on to kill fellow student Angela Dales as well as wounding three others before being confronted at gunpoint by law students Tracy Bridges, a county sheriff’s deputy, and Mikael Gross, a police officer, after retrieving their personal handguns from their vehicles. The gunman was then apprehended by other students.
Gross and Bridges lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone.
Dec. 9, 2007: New Life Church: Colorado Springs, Colorado 2 parishioners were killed and 3 wounded when a gunman toting a Bushmaster AR-15 opened fire at New Hope Church. Hearing the rifle fire, Jeanne Assam grabbed her personal concealed carry firearm and confronted the gunman from a distance of 20 yards. According to 5280 Magazine:
She fires five quick shots. Murray falls backward. Assam moves to the middle of the corridor and rushes forward. She’s a few dozen feet from Murray now, exposed in the middle of the hallway. “Drop your weapon, or I will kill you!” she yells. Murray sits up to face her. He’s still holding the rifle. Boom-boom-boom. Bullets rip past her and pepper a wall. While Murray shoots, Assam fires three times.
Through the haze of gun smoke, Assam sees the man struggling on the floor. He props his head against a wall. Her weapon is up, trained on the man. She sees his hands moving near his shoulder. He’s trying to pull the pin on a grenade. He’s going to kill everyone around here, Assam thinks. She instinctively steps back and fires two more shots.
May 27, 2010 A 79-year-old man entered an AT&T store in New York Mills, New York carrying a .357 magnum revolver in his hand and a list of employees he planned to kill in his pocket. Hearing the hand cannon go off, Donald J. Moore drew his own personal weapon and killed the gunman before he could complete his plan. One employee was wounded in the shooting.
March 25, 2012 Freewill Baptist Church: Lancaster County, South Carolina Aaron Guyton was inside the recreation building of his grandfather’s church when he saw Jessie Gates, a member of the congregation, pulling a shotgun from his vehicle. Guyton leapt into action, locking the doors to the church where services were going on. Gates kicked in the door and pointed the shotgun at Rev. Henry Guyton and several parishioners. Drawing his concealed handgun, the younger Guyton held Gates at gunpoint while two members of the church took him to the ground. Rev. Guyton then took the shotgun from his hand.
Dec. 11, 2012 Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
January 11, 2014 Mystic Strip Club: Portland, OR After being refused entry to the strip club for belligerent behavior and racist comments earlir in the night, Thomas Elliott Hjelmeland returned carrying a handgun and wearing a Halloween mask. As soon as he entered the club, Hjelmeland opened fire, striking bouncer Brian Rizzo, a patron, and a waitress. Another bouncer, Jonathan Baer drew his concealed handgun and shot Hjelmeland, killing him.
Following the attack Baer posted to Facebook: “I did what I felt was right to stop the shooter…I carry every day, and will continue to, and will so with the hope that I will NEVER have to pull it out again.”
April 30, 2014 Austin, Texas An irate former employee came to a construction site and opened fire on his co-workers. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder, drew his firearm and opened fire. Both men were wounded in the exchange of gunfire but the foreman’s actions ended the attack and no one else was wounded.
July 25, 2014 Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital: Philadelphia, PA A patient at a psychiatric clinic killed his case worker at point blank range and then turned his gun on his doctor, Lee Silverman, striking him several times. Before the gunman could leave the office and continue his rampage, Dr. Silverman drew his own concealed handgun and pumped three rounds into the gunman’s torso, mortally wounding him. Police and hospital staff hail Dr. Silverman as a hero and credit him with saving dozens of lives.
hefty fines and jail time for those stupid yahoos that leave their car key's laying around, fail to lock up their liquor cabinet when they leave, fail to hide their spoons and forks from over weight family members, smoke weed because most growers own and use guns to protect their harvest, T.V promotes violence, fish feel pain too ! and ........it's all Obama's fault, I think I got it now.
Source? Locations ? Anyway to verify what's posted? "Hand cannon" made me laugh.
locations updated in a sec. google is your friend. I'm glad an eyewitness describing a gun shot made you laugh.
They read like an NRA propaganda compilation where the intern got all comic booky writing the synopsis from the stale news report. Maybe embellished it a little for dramatic effect? Google is my friend but I'm lazy tonight. 10 examples spanning 17 years. I'm convinced more guns is the answer to gun violence and preventing mass shootings. Any stats by a reputable agency or is it yet another stat the NRA fights to keep from being compiled?
Source? Locations ? Anyway to verify what's posted? "Hand cannon" made me laugh.
locations updated in a sec. google is your friend. I'm glad an eyewitness describing a gun shot made you laugh.
They read like an NRA propaganda compilation where the intern got all comic booky writing the synopsis from the stale news report. Maybe embellished it a little for dramatic effect? Google is my friend but I'm lazy tonight. 10 examples spanning 17 years. I'm convinced more guns is the answer to gun violence and preventing mass shootings. Any stats by a reputable agency or is it yet another stat the NRA fights to keep from being compiled?
So look it up and disprove it. Why do the pro second amendment people have to cite and triple cite their sources but since the majority of the pj message boards are for gun control they can say whatever they want without fact control? Start with the July 2014 philly hospital incident mr lazy guy. And yes ten examples with three seconds of research. It s not the majority of concealed carry permits that stop mass shootings rather the vast minority. Kind of like the the vast minorty commit mass shootings but the overall majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding.
Comments
www.headstonesband.com
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I'm very sorry for your losses, dudeman.
Thank you for your kind words.
Wisconsin is also seeking campus carry.
Edited to correct facts. It was Florida's Open Carry Bill that passed the first measures in the House last week.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
A Florida man....
I am generally against carry. Period. As a Canadian, I think the fewer people walking around with guns the better.
As someone who works at a university, and therefore as someone who has a somewhat realistic concern about a mass shooting happening where I work, I am also against arming school security for a couple of reasons. For one thing, we just don't need that kind of atmosphere at an institution for higher learning. It would just be harmful to the culture of the campus. Secondly, I wouldn't want to arm the people who work security at universities specifically. I know who these people are, what they're like. While they do their best, I definitely cannot say I'd be comfortable knowing that they have been given the power to shoot people. They are NOT cops, and they aren't paid to carry that level of responsibility. Training them to the extent that I think they'd need (not just some intro courses - I think they'd need extensive training for gun use and for gun use during various crises and non-crises (i.e. we don't want this people shooting a student because they read a situation wrong or went all Rambo on pub night). Basically the kind of training actual police officers get) and then paying them for the expectations that we'd consequently have for them would completely break the university's security budget. Yes, the alternative would be to train them THAT well and pay them much more.... but do you think schools would actually do that?? I absolutely do not. They'd provide the minimum level of training they thought they could get away with and keep paying shitty wages for their security guards, and you're left with a school with a damaged culture of learning and a bunch of armed incompetents who are rendered a danger in and of themselves.
You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
This is your show. Carry on.
I will feel a lot safter if I knew a lot of people were carrying. If I was carrying....damn near invincible.
How can this not be a good thing?
woot.
You never really had to begin with.
Sometimes it's not the song that makes you emotional it's the people and things that come to your mind when you hear it.
This is what needs to happen to stop the murders and suicides in this country. Parents, teachers, friends and family members should read this article and put this into effect.
As a bonus, we won't have to have any more gun threads on AMT. Everyone wins.
If arming and training security guards wouldn't work because of the caliber of people who become guards and because of funding concerns, we have failed more spectacularly than I thought.
In order to have a healthy "culture of learning" I think the students need to be alive.
Your post that I have quoted is a false narrative. Colleges around the country, day in and day out, teach and protect their students without incident. Mass shootings while rare, particularly for college campuses are on the rise, the number of incidences, as a percentage, are infinitesimal when taken as a % of the whole, say by number of teaching hours or students taught times number of days without incident. Still, horrific and tragic but not one where allowing concealed carry on campus is the solution, IMHO.
Most mass shootings, defined as 4 or more victims, are domestic in nature or where the victims knew the shooter. Your previous post to this one posits that there is nothing that can be done by others to enhance gun safety and if all just spoke to those around us, killings would stop. That's another false narrative that denies the true nature of the problem and suggests there are no reasonable solutions to the problem at hand. First and foremost, that article starts out by claiming you can't ban guns. True, no one wants to ban guns. It's a scare tactic that diverts attention away from what can be done: universal federal mandatory stringent background checks for all gun purchases, private and gun show included; mandatory federal 30 day cooling off period for all gun purchases; federal training, licensing and insurance requirements for all gun purchases (I'd grandfather current gun ownership); increased federal and state funding for ATF and local law enforcement to reduce straw purchases and arms trafficking as well as auditing of gun dealers records of sale and stiff fines and punishment for violaters. We have to start somewhere and if we start now, it won't change overnight but it might be different 20 years from now, much like drunk driving deaths and motor vehicle accidents have been reduced.
The 2nd Amendment guarantees your right to bear arms but it shouldn't allow you to be irresponsible with said arms. Minimum punishments, hefty fines and jail time for those stupid yahoos that leave their guns laying around so a toddler can shoot someone. Sorry your kid shot your other kid, now go spend some time in jail, idiot.
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Godfather.
Oct. 1, 1997 Pearl High School, Pearl, Mississippi
Luke Woodham fatally stabbed his mother at home before opening fire at his high school, killing two students and injuring seven others. The attack was stopped when Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his truck and confronted Woodham, detaining him until authorities could arrive.
Myrick’s action stopped Woodham from going across the street to the middle school as he had planned.
April 24, 1998 Parker Middle School: Edinboro, Pennsylvania
A 14-year-old student showed up to his middle school dance carrying a .25-caliber pistol. He opened fire inside the dance, killing one teacher and wounding another as well as two students. The rampage ended when James Strand, owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, grabbed his personal shotgun and confronted the 14-year-old killer. Strand held the teen at gunpoint for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground and searching him for additional weapons.
Jan. 16, 2002: Appalachian School of Law: Grundy, Virginia
A 43-year-old former student armed with a .380 handgun killed Dean Anthony Sutin and Professor Thomas Blackwell with point blank shots and went on to kill fellow student Angela Dales as well as wounding three others before being confronted at gunpoint by law students Tracy Bridges, a county sheriff’s deputy, and Mikael Gross, a police officer, after retrieving their personal handguns from their vehicles. The gunman was then apprehended by other students.
Gross and Bridges lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone.
Dec. 9, 2007: New Life Church: Colorado Springs, Colorado
2 parishioners were killed and 3 wounded when a gunman toting a Bushmaster AR-15 opened fire at New Hope Church. Hearing the rifle fire, Jeanne Assam grabbed her personal concealed carry firearm and confronted the gunman from a distance of 20 yards. According to 5280 Magazine:
She fires five quick shots. Murray falls backward. Assam moves to the middle of the corridor and rushes forward. She’s a few dozen feet from Murray now, exposed in the middle of the hallway. “Drop your weapon, or I will kill you!” she yells. Murray sits up to face her. He’s still holding the rifle. Boom-boom-boom. Bullets rip past her and pepper a wall. While Murray shoots, Assam fires three times.
Through the haze of gun smoke, Assam sees the man struggling on the floor. He props his head against a wall. Her weapon is up, trained on the man. She sees his hands moving near his shoulder. He’s trying to pull the pin on a grenade. He’s going to kill everyone around here, Assam thinks. She instinctively steps back and fires two more shots.
May 27, 2010
A 79-year-old man entered an AT&T store in New York Mills, New York carrying a .357 magnum revolver in his hand and a list of employees he planned to kill in his pocket. Hearing the hand cannon go off, Donald J. Moore drew his own personal weapon and killed the gunman before he could complete his plan. One employee was wounded in the shooting.
March 25, 2012 Freewill Baptist Church: Lancaster County, South Carolina
Aaron Guyton was inside the recreation building of his grandfather’s church when he saw Jessie Gates, a member of the congregation, pulling a shotgun from his vehicle. Guyton leapt into action, locking the doors to the church where services were going on. Gates kicked in the door and pointed the shotgun at Rev. Henry Guyton and several parishioners. Drawing his concealed handgun, the younger Guyton held Gates at gunpoint while two members of the church took him to the ground. Rev. Guyton then took the shotgun from his hand.
Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
January 11, 2014 Mystic Strip Club: Portland, OR
After being refused entry to the strip club for belligerent behavior and racist comments earlir in the night, Thomas Elliott Hjelmeland returned carrying a handgun and wearing a Halloween mask. As soon as he entered the club, Hjelmeland opened fire, striking bouncer Brian Rizzo, a patron, and a waitress. Another bouncer, Jonathan Baer drew his concealed handgun and shot Hjelmeland, killing him.
Following the attack Baer posted to Facebook: “I did what I felt was right to stop the shooter…I carry every day, and will continue to, and will so with the hope that I will NEVER have to pull it out again.”
April 30, 2014 Austin, Texas
An irate former employee came to a construction site and opened fire on his co-workers. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder, drew his firearm and opened fire. Both men were wounded in the exchange of gunfire but the foreman’s actions ended the attack and no one else was wounded.
July 25, 2014 Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital: Philadelphia, PA
A patient at a psychiatric clinic killed his case worker at point blank range and then turned his gun on his doctor, Lee Silverman, striking him several times. Before the gunman could leave the office and continue his rampage, Dr. Silverman drew his own concealed handgun and pumped three rounds into the gunman’s torso, mortally wounding him. Police and hospital staff hail Dr. Silverman as a hero and credit him with saving dozens of lives.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
And yes ten examples with three seconds of research. It s not the majority of concealed carry permits that stop mass shootings rather the vast minority. Kind of like the the vast minorty commit mass shootings but the overall majority of gun owners are responsible and law abiding.