America: "Hillary, we don't trust you as far as we can throw you but we will elect you anyway because we only feel safe inside our little box of status quo."
This couldn't be more accurate.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,926
America: "Hillary, we don't rust you as far as we can throw you but we will elect you anyway because we only feel safe inside our little box of status quo."
Brian - would you like me to speak for all Stein supporters, the way you see fit to represent all HRC supporters? Are you arrogant enough to believe you speak for everyone?
I'm only speaking for the 68% tonifig mentioned, haha.
No, I'm not that arrogant. I only say what I perceive and to be honest, I do believe at least 68% of America is afraid to step outside their comfort zone kind of the same way abused people so often stay with the abuser. I've stayed in the box of fear before myself. But no more.
Brian, I love ya, but I have to agree that your thinking here seems a bit arrogant and presumptive.
I certainly don't mean it to be but I can see why you would say that. I'm very self-critical about certain things, I'm no saint, and sometimes I'm an asshole. And my shit stinks!
I don't know how else to word it though. I really do believe most Americans prefer what they are accustomed to rather than seek a better solution. I also believe a huge number of Americans are apathetic. And I believe many are fearful and thus our system is static. And I've been all of those things myself and being stuck in a rut, apathetic or fearful gains nothing, believe me! But that's why most people will vote for Hillary even though they don't trust or like her.
But I feel like you're dismissing a very important factor that most of these Americans that you're referring to aren't dismissing: Change does not happen overnight, and Stein and Johnson could no more create positive change than Hillary could right now. Add that to the myriad of other reasons they may choose to vote for Hillary (some good, some not so good, including not wanting to split the vote), and people have a perfectly good reason not to vote for Stein or Johnson, and aren't doing it because they are mired in the status quo at all. Plus, I think you are underestimating the intellects of those who will vote for Hillary. You are actually saying that Trump supporters have got it right, since Trump supporters are voting for him because they think he can really create change. They think that one person can just walk into office and immediately create change just like you apparently think Stein could. In fact, just voting in a POTUS who claims to be able to change America for the better is probably the least effective way to change anything one can imagine. The one person who's got it just right in this context is Bernie Sanders. If you really want positive change, you should listen more to him instead of to someone who wants to advance her political career because she's seen an opening. Bernie knows where it's at.
That's absolutely correct. The first thing I was told in the first hour of the first class I took on my way to my degree and teaching credential was this: "Most of you here are going into teaching because you want to change the world, you want to make a difference. But you would do well to know this: institutions are static. They are very slow to change."
I get that and I'm not saying some of us should be a fly in the ointment simply for the sake of being agitators or simply different. That's not how I see Bernie or Stein. I believe they (and particularly Stein because she knows she is farther even than Berni on the outside) know change is slow and their job is to be a catalyst for change that is well though out and logical. Because change is slow, a good catalyst for that kind of change is essential.
And oh how I want to continue here but I have to run. More later. Thanks as always for good challenging thoughts, PJ_Soul! Do keep me on my toes!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
America: "Hillary, we don't rust you as far as we can throw you but we will elect you anyway because we only feel safe inside our little box of status quo."
Brian - would you like me to speak for all Stein supporters, the way you see fit to represent all HRC supporters? Are you arrogant enough to believe you speak for everyone?
I'm only speaking for the 68% tonifig mentioned, haha.
No, I'm not that arrogant. I only say what I perceive and to be honest, I do believe at least 68% of America is afraid to step outside their comfort zone kind of the same way abused people so often stay with the abuser. I've stayed in the box of fear before myself. But no more.
Brian, I love ya, but I have to agree that your thinking here seems a bit arrogant and presumptive.
I certainly don't mean it to be but I can see why you would say that. I'm very self-critical about certain things, I'm no saint, and sometimes I'm an asshole. And my shit stinks!
I don't know how else to word it though. I really do believe most Americans prefer what they are accustomed to rather than seek a better solution. I also believe a huge number of Americans are apathetic. And I believe many are fearful and thus our system is static. And I've been all of those things myself and being stuck in a rut, apathetic or fearful gains nothing, believe me! But that's why most people will vote for Hillary even though they don't trust or like her.
But I feel like you're dismissing a very important factor that most of these Americans that you're referring to aren't dismissing: Change does not happen overnight, and Stein and Johnson could no more create positive change than Hillary could right now. Add that to the myriad of other reasons they may choose to vote for Hillary (some good, some not so good, including not wanting to split the vote), and people have a perfectly good reason not to vote for Stein or Johnson, and aren't doing it because they are mired in the status quo at all. Plus, I think you are underestimating the intellects of those who will vote for Hillary. You are actually saying that Trump supporters have got it right, since Trump supporters are voting for him because they think he can really create change. They think that one person can just walk into office and immediately create change just like you apparently think Stein could. In fact, just voting in a POTUS who claims to be able to change America for the better is probably the least effective way to change anything one can imagine. The one person who's got it just right in this context is Bernie Sanders. If you really want positive change, you should listen more to him instead of to someone who wants to advance her political career because she's seen an opening. Bernie knows where it's at.
That's absolutely correct. The first thing I was told in the first hour of the first class I took on my way to my degree and teaching credential was this: "Most of you here are going into teaching because you want to change the world, you want to make a difference. But you would do well to know this: institutions are static. They are very slow to change."
I get that and I'm not saying some of us should be a fly in the ointment simply for the sake of being agitators or simply different. That's not how I see Bernie or Stein. I believe they (and particularly Stein because she knows she is farther even than Berni on the outside) know change is slow and their job is to be a catalyst for change that is well though out and logical. Because change is slow, a good catalyst for that kind of change is essential.
And oh how I want to continue here but I have to run. More later. Thanks as always for good challenging thoughts, PJ_Soul! Do keep me on my toes!
Right back attchya. I think Bernie's tactics now (and his reasons for supporting Hillary) are on point (start from the bottom up is what he's preaching now), whereas Stein's aren't (top down). I don't think voting for Stein is a realistic catalyst for change at all (somewhat off topic, but as much as I find the environment to be a massive and pressing issue, I also don't feel that the Green Party is adequately prepared to run a country. They are too much a one platform party to be effective IMO).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
the economy and all its metrics is the biggest fraud out there ... everything is based on "growth" ... the sky is falling if we don't have growth ... we have corporations that make decisions based on shareholder or stock value ... the concept of sustainability is lost on everyone ... and I'm not even just talking about the environment ... the antiquated conditions by which decisions are made do not translate as an indicator of the "health" of a nation ...
how someone can use the unemployment rate as a measure of how "great" everything is just shows how irrational the thinking is ... those stats are manipulated into making people feel like everything is ok ... when everything points to utter failure ...
What KPIs would you propose to judge the vitality of an economy?
I would use true unemployment rate - look at how they calculate that figure now ... if you've been looking for work for 3 years and then decide that you aren't looking anymore for like 4 weeks ... you don't count ... if while you're looking for work and work for 1 hour on a week ... you don't count ... the labour participation rate is very low ... you need to factor all that in ...
on top of that ... i would look to average wages and income disparity ... just look at the average wage charts over the years adjusted for inflation - only the top 5% are seeing increases ... this whole thing is rigged for the wealthy ...
the economy and all its metrics is the biggest fraud out there ... everything is based on "growth" ... the sky is falling if we don't have growth ... we have corporations that make decisions based on shareholder or stock value ... the concept of sustainability is lost on everyone ... and I'm not even just talking about the environment ... the antiquated conditions by which decisions are made do not translate as an indicator of the "health" of a nation ...
how someone can use the unemployment rate as a measure of how "great" everything is just shows how irrational the thinking is ... those stats are manipulated into making people feel like everything is ok ... when everything points to utter failure ...
To Benjs's point, unemployment is not the only factor, but it is a key KPI for sure. What else would you use? I'm fairly certain you can come up with precious few that aren't being evaluated already today. If you can, well then you ought to head right over to the Fed or CBO and get a job.
let's go back to my farm example ... say you lived on a farm with a commune of people ... and that farm had to sustain you and everyone else in perpetuity ... what metrics would you use? ... YOY growth!? ... maximum yield? ... that wouldn't make any sense ...
Meg Whitman said she plans to give a "substantial" contribution to Clinton's campaign to make sure Republican nominee Donald Trump doesn't become the next president. “I will vote for Hillary, I will talk to my Republican friends about helping her, and I will donate to her campaign and try to raise money for her,” Whitman told The New York Times on Tuesday.
Whitman, who ran for governor of California in 2010, said she doesn't agree with Clinton on many issues, but noted that the Democratic nominee would "be a much better president than Donald Trump."
An aide to Whitman said the billionaire businesswoman would personally give Clinton's campaign at least an amount in the "mid-six figures."
In the interview, Whitman also slammed Trump and said the Republicans need to "put country first before party," according to The New York Times.
She called Trump "a dishonest demagogue" and said he could take the country "on a very dangerous journey." She also said he has "undermined the character of the nation."
She said she stands by her former comments, in which she compared Trump to Hitler and Mussolini. She made the remarks during a private gathering of Republican donors earlier this year.
“Time and again history has shown that when demagogues have gotten power or come close to getting power, it usually does not end well,” Whitman said.
Whitman, who spent $140 million of her own money on her gubernatorial bid, is described by the Times as "a prized defector" for Clinton. The paper notes she is close to Mitt Romney and is rare female executive in Silicon Valley.
Ron Nehring, who served as national spokesman for Ted Cruz's presidential campaign, said he doesn't agree with Whitman's endorsement, but noted the "significance of it should not be discounted." He called her an "extremely tough, smart woman."
In a series of tweets, he noted Whitman was a "major supporter" of Mitt Romney and supported New Jersey Chris Christie in the 2016 Republican primaries.
"People listen to her," he tweeted.
"Trump now has a former CAGOP Gov nominee, a NY GOP congressman and Christie staffer all supporting Hillary. This is unsustainable."
This is awesome. For those of you that keep asking "how can people support Clinton?" just read Whitman's remarks. That's how.
Smart lady. There will be more.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Meg Whitman said she plans to give a "substantial" contribution to Clinton's campaign to make sure Republican nominee Donald Trump doesn't become the next president. “I will vote for Hillary, I will talk to my Republican friends about helping her, and I will donate to her campaign and try to raise money for her,” Whitman told The New York Times on Tuesday.
Whitman, who ran for governor of California in 2010, said she doesn't agree with Clinton on many issues, but noted that the Democratic nominee would "be a much better president than Donald Trump."
An aide to Whitman said the billionaire businesswoman would personally give Clinton's campaign at least an amount in the "mid-six figures."
In the interview, Whitman also slammed Trump and said the Republicans need to "put country first before party," according to The New York Times.
She called Trump "a dishonest demagogue" and said he could take the country "on a very dangerous journey." She also said he has "undermined the character of the nation."
She said she stands by her former comments, in which she compared Trump to Hitler and Mussolini. She made the remarks during a private gathering of Republican donors earlier this year.
“Time and again history has shown that when demagogues have gotten power or come close to getting power, it usually does not end well,” Whitman said.
Whitman, who spent $140 million of her own money on her gubernatorial bid, is described by the Times as "a prized defector" for Clinton. The paper notes she is close to Mitt Romney and is rare female executive in Silicon Valley.
Ron Nehring, who served as national spokesman for Ted Cruz's presidential campaign, said he doesn't agree with Whitman's endorsement, but noted the "significance of it should not be discounted." He called her an "extremely tough, smart woman."
In a series of tweets, he noted Whitman was a "major supporter" of Mitt Romney and supported New Jersey Chris Christie in the 2016 Republican primaries.
"People listen to her," he tweeted.
"Trump now has a former CAGOP Gov nominee, a NY GOP congressman and Christie staffer all supporting Hillary. This is unsustainable."
This is awesome. For those of you that keep asking "how can people support Clinton?" just read Whitman's remarks. That's how.
Smart lady. There will be more.
again, using the fear tactic. It's all Hillary has.
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I think people have a legitimate reason to be highly concerned about Trump. The alternative isn't awesome, but it's much more palatable.
How do these two people rise to the top? These gems are the finest leaders the US can generate? The establishment needs to be overhauled... but this will never happen.
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Except that it was really dick cheney and karl rove who were "running " things
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Vastly different. Bush was not on the same intelligence level as Clinton/Obama but he was not a knee jerk asshole either.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
That may just be my favorite post ever. Thank you.
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Vastly different. Bush was not on the same intelligence level as Clinton/Obama but he was not a knee jerk asshole either.
but that's my point ... trump is all over the place with what he says ... so, ya he'll be an embarrassment like Rob Ford was here but at the end of the day - the checks and balances will prevent him from doing anything major ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Look where he got them.
looks like they are still bombing in the middle east and much of the patriot act is still in place ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Vastly different. Bush was not on the same intelligence level as Clinton/Obama but he was not a knee jerk asshole either.
but that's my point ... trump is all over the place with what he says ... so, ya he'll be an embarrassment like Rob Ford was here but at the end of the day - the checks and balances will prevent him from doing anything major ...
It would prevent legislation but it can't prevent the diplomacy disaster that we would most certainly see under Trump.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
That may just be my favorite post ever. Thank you.
Verifying that fear is driving the election is your favorite post?
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
They aren't "using" fear mongering...the fear is there. People fear an idiot running our country.
So, are the check and balances that have been put in place useless? ... You guys had W for 8 years - so, it's already been proven that an idiot can run your country ...
Vastly different. Bush was not on the same intelligence level as Clinton/Obama but he was not a knee jerk asshole either.
but that's my point ... trump is all over the place with what he says ... so, ya he'll be an embarrassment like Rob Ford was here but at the end of the day - the checks and balances will prevent him from doing anything major ...
It would prevent legislation but it can't prevent the diplomacy disaster that we would most certainly see under Trump.
so ... it's really just about not having an embarrassing POTUS!? ...
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
Why is that a poor rationale? As a voter, if neither candidate is someone I like, why not vote for someone as a vote against someone? Why is that not acceptable?
will myself to find a home, a home within myself we will find a way, we will find our place
Yea, it's impossible to support somebody without being a sheep. We get it.
i don't think it's so much being a sheep as it is ... that the reasons some are voting for Clinton is to make sure Trump doesn't win ... that's a poor rationale to vote for the supposed leader of the free world ... then telling people who strive for a different ideal that they have to support her using fear mongering ...
Why is that a poor rationale? As a voter, if neither candidate is someone I like, why not vote for someone as a vote against someone? Why is that not acceptable?
Comments
I get that and I'm not saying some of us should be a fly in the ointment simply for the sake of being agitators or simply different. That's not how I see Bernie or Stein. I believe they (and particularly Stein because she knows she is farther even than Berni on the outside) know change is slow and their job is to be a catalyst for change that is well though out and logical. Because change is slow, a good catalyst for that kind of change is essential.
And oh how I want to continue here but I have to run. More later. Thanks as always for good challenging thoughts, PJ_Soul! Do keep me on my toes!
I think Bernie's tactics now (and his reasons for supporting Hillary) are on point (start from the bottom up is what he's preaching now), whereas Stein's aren't (top down). I don't think voting for Stein is a realistic catalyst for change at all (somewhat off topic, but as much as I find the environment to be a massive and pressing issue, I also don't feel that the Green Party is adequately prepared to run a country. They are too much a one platform party to be effective IMO).
on top of that ... i would look to average wages and income disparity ... just look at the average wage charts over the years adjusted for inflation - only the top 5% are seeing increases ... this whole thing is rigged for the wealthy ...
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fallout-over-clintons-fox-news-225354430.html
Smart lady. There will be more.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Smart lady. There will be more.
again, using the fear tactic. It's all Hillary has.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
we will find a way, we will find our place
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I think people have a legitimate reason to be highly concerned about Trump. The alternative isn't awesome, but it's much more palatable.
How do these two people rise to the top? These gems are the finest leaders the US can generate? The establishment needs to be overhauled... but this will never happen.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
we will find a way, we will find our place