Hillary won more votes for President

JimmyV

How many of these fearful whites in the Midwest voted for Obama twice? I think the urge to overcompensate here needs to be resisted. Candidate matters. Campaigns matter. No votes are in the bag until they are cast. But mrussel1 is right. This was not the complete rejection of democratic policies and ideals we thought it was on election night.

CM189191

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

Gern Blansten

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

You have to give the GOP credit for suckering those people. They demonized "big government" to the point where the working class is begging the GOP to slaughter them.

CM189191

Gern Blansten said:

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

You have to give the GOP credit for suckering those people. They demonized "big government" to the point where the working class is begging the GOP to slaughter them.

I refuse for giving the GOP credit for running a fear-based campaign. They should be shamed and ashamed.

CM189191

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

I mean...it could have been as easy as promising to deliver clean water.
Four more charged in Flint water crisis

mrussel1

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

Exactly my point.. a global economy is here and it's here to stay. We are in the middle of the next great economic revolution and have been for 20 years. It our Industrial Revolution.

I was trying to find a chart that showed, what I believe to be true, that Ohio, Michigan and other Big 10 states (other than MN and Chicagoland) are seeing their educated youth leave the state and head to the coast or Chicago, Denver etc. I was looking for a chart, over 20 years, that shows % of people over 25 with a college degree. Couldn't find it. But I found this which should surprise no one.

I can't paste the chart because it's interactive, but look at Fig 4... Count how many states that voted R are above the median for % with college educated. I'll give you a hint... it's two. Look where OH, MI, etc. are.. they are in the bottom quartile (or thereabouts). This problem in the MW is not going away soon. Perhaps the census will help for the 2024 election, but not much.

http://www.towncharts.com/United-States-Education-data.html#Figure4

CM189191

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

Exactly my point.. a global economy is here and it's here to stay. We are in the middle of the next great economic revolution and have been for 20 years. It our Industrial Revolution.

I was trying to find a chart that showed, what I believe to be true, that Ohio, Michigan and other Big 10 states (other than MN and Chicagoland) are seeing their educated youth leave the state and head to the coast or Chicago, Denver etc. I was looking for a chart, over 20 years, that shows % of people over 25 with a college degree. Couldn't find it. But I found this which should surprise no one.

I can't paste the chart because it's interactive, but look at Fig 4... Count how many states that voted R are above the median for % with college educated. I'll give you a hint... it's two. Look where OH, MI, etc. are.. they are in the bottom quartile (or thereabouts). This problem in the MW is not going away soon. Perhaps the census will help for the 2024 election, but not much.

http://www.towncharts.com/United-States-Education-data.html#Figure4

If only there was a party that supported college education.
Instead we get this:
A sobering look at what Betsy DeVos did to education in Michigan — and what she might do as secretary of education.

JC29856

From the warrant unsealed today: Clinton had over 2,115 classified emails on her private server PLACED THERE BY PUTIN PERSONALLY

mrussel1

JC29856 said:

From the warrant unsealed today: Clinton had over 2,115 classified emails on her private server PLACED THERE BY PUTIN PERSONALLY

Troll

mrussel1

CM189191 said:

mrussel1 said:

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

Exactly my point.. a global economy is here and it's here to stay. We are in the middle of the next great economic revolution and have been for 20 years. It our Industrial Revolution.

I was trying to find a chart that showed, what I believe to be true, that Ohio, Michigan and other Big 10 states (other than MN and Chicagoland) are seeing their educated youth leave the state and head to the coast or Chicago, Denver etc. I was looking for a chart, over 20 years, that shows % of people over 25 with a college degree. Couldn't find it. But I found this which should surprise no one.

I can't paste the chart because it's interactive, but look at Fig 4... Count how many states that voted R are above the median for % with college educated. I'll give you a hint... it's two. Look where OH, MI, etc. are.. they are in the bottom quartile (or thereabouts). This problem in the MW is not going away soon. Perhaps the census will help for the 2024 election, but not much.

http://www.towncharts.com/United-States-Education-data.html#Figure4

If only there was a party that supported college education.
Instead we get this:
A sobering look at what Betsy DeVos did to education in Michigan — and what she might do as secretary of education.

Yeah the FREEP has been hammering her for years... "no relevant credentials" is about the best way to describe her capacity to do the job. And it's the poorest among us that will suffer. Not the middle class and above. God help us.

Free

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-obama-clintons-no-idea-dems-lost-election-article-1.2916282

KING: Obama, Clintons still have no idea why Dems lost election

josevolution

Free said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-obama-clintons-no-idea-dems-lost-election-article-1.2916282

KING: Obama, Clintons still have no idea why Dems lost election

Did you also read the article on why King will never call Bafoon mr president good stuff !

mrussel1

Free said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-obama-clintons-no-idea-dems-lost-election-article-1.2916282

KING: Obama, Clintons still have no idea why Dems lost election

The premise of the article may have some accuracy (even if it's not particularly profound at this point), but the so called progressive populism campaign that he espouses would NOT have won Michigan, WI or OH. He says that Obama and Clinton are disconnected from populists and says that BLM and Dakota pipeline would won over voters in the Midwest? Sorry, but I just couldn't read much more after that load of crap.

what dreams

Free said:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-obama-clintons-no-idea-dems-lost-election-article-1.2916282

KING: Obama, Clintons still have no idea why Dems lost election

Yay, another article about why Clinton lost the election. We need another one of those.

Free

Did you even read it. Maybe you should.

This is a Hillary thread in the article does have to do with Hillary...

Jason P

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

Trump lied but Hillary's campaign painted mid-westerners as deplorables and racists and privileged and dumb rednecks ... maybe that wasn't the best strategy.

what dreams

Free said:

Did you even read it. Maybe you should.

This is a Hillary thread in the article does have to do with Hillary...

Yes. I read it. It says the same things all the other articles on the same topic say. Congratulations on your insightful find.

CM189191

Jason P said:

CM189191 said:

Go Beavers said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

JC29856 said:

mrussel1 said:

It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

Fly in your ointment is the popular vote margin in 3 counties in Cali and NY.
Edit post accordingly

What's your point? Do those people count for less because of their county?

You're takin about popular vote, popular vote man, which is meaningless as I've stated many times why you were on sabbatical. Marathon runners don't train for sprints and vice vs.
I can spew the number of counties won the square footage and etc or I can quote your posts about the science of winning elections. I don't recall those talking about popular vote, man, talkin about popular vote.

I'm not arguing that the election was unfair. I've said precisely the opposite. But don't act like it was a complete retribution of the D message or that it was a landslide. It wasn't. I said several times that the D's have a region issue now and have to figure out how to appeal to a Midwest that is increasingly white and older.

More specifically, a message that appeals to fearful whites in the Midwest. Trump used racism to work that angle. Dems will have to do better than that.

What should we do to cater our message to the Rust Belt? Lie to them and tell them their jobs are coming back? Use more dog-whistle? Maybe find a new minority to demonize? That coal is suffering due to regulations, not competition from natural gas? That providing basic necessities like education, health care, housing and food are not a burden to society; but the purpose of society.
These people need to be socially isolated. Maybe then they'll understand that supporting all the horrible sh*t that Trump stands for has real life consequences. Let them live in an echo chamber because they deserve it.

Trump lied but Hillary's campaign painted mid-westerners as deplorables and racists and privileged and dumb rednecks ... maybe that wasn't the best strategy.

Ah yes, I remember when Hillary stopped by MSP airport and demonized the local Somali refugee population.

And for the record, a fair amount of Midwesterners are deplorable racist dumb privileged rednecks.

JimmyV

Free said:

Did you even read it. Maybe you should.

This is a Hillary thread in the article does have to do with Hillary...

I found this interesting:

Even now, as the Democratic establishment seems hell-bent on not choosing Keith Ellison as the leader of the DNC — in spite of widespread progressive support for him. I've never seen anything like it. Hundreds of thousands of people have come forward to say they want Keith to lead the party, but the party stalls and stalls and stalls, and seems determined to do anything other than pick the progressive choice.

If the Democratic Party is going to have any success moving forward, it must lean into progressive populism and not away from it. So far, I don't see this happening and the Obamas and Clintons don't seem to be taking us there.

what dreams

JimmyV said:

Free said:

Did you even read it. Maybe you should.

This is a Hillary thread in the article does have to do with Hillary...

I found this interesting:

Even now, as the Democratic establishment seems hell-bent on not choosing Keith Ellison as the leader of the DNC — in spite of widespread progressive support for him. I've never seen anything like it. Hundreds of thousands of people have come forward to say they want Keith to lead the party, but the party stalls and stalls and stalls, and seems determined to do anything other than pick the progressive choice.

If the Democratic Party is going to have any success moving forward, it must lean into progressive populism and not away from it. So far, I don't see this happening and the Obamas and Clintons don't seem to be taking us there.

It's no longer up to the Obamas or Clintons to take us anywhere. That's what's wrong with that logic. The voters rejected Clinton and Obama. Why are they now looking for them to lead?