Hillary won more votes for President

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Comments

  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    JimmyV said:

    It is true that there is a radical contingent of leftists who are criticizing the Democratic party. They want to move the party further left, and I actually predict that will happen based on my observations and understanding. We will be left without a center after all this is over. Whether or not that is good for the country will be seen.

    I feel like this is a contradiction. Do most Democrats understand the problem or is it just a radical contingent of leftists criticizing the party?



    Both. It's not an either/or proposition. The folks in the center realize they are outnumbered, kind of like folks in center of the Republican party. If there's ever a need for a third party, it's for the center.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited December 2016
    Pied Piper Candidates

    There are two ways to approach the strategies mentioned above. The first is to use the field as a whole to inflict damage
    on itself similar to what happened to Mitt Romney in 2012. The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the
    lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we
    don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more “Pied Piper” candidates who actually
    represent the mainstream of the Republican Party. Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to:
    • Ted Cruz
    Donald Trump
    • Ben Carson
    We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to take them
    seriously.
    Post edited by JC29856 on
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    JC29856 said:

    Electors are voting Sanders instead of Hilliary

    Fantastic!

    JimmyV said:

    It is true that there is a radical contingent of leftists who are criticizing the Democratic party. They want to move the party further left, and I actually predict that will happen based on my observations and understanding. We will be left without a center after all this is over. Whether or not that is good for the country will be seen.

    I feel like this is a contradiction. Do most Democrats understand the problem or is it just a radical contingent of leftists criticizing the party?



    Both. It's not an either/or proposition. The folks in the center realize they are outnumbered, kind of like folks in center of the Republican party. If there's ever a need for a third party, it's for the center.
    So you're saying that Hillary is a closet Republican. Because that's basically what She is: more right than center.
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    And I'm not saying the above because I simply don't like her. She actually demonstrates not just a centrist position, she actually is pretty conservative based and how liberal the Democratic Party should be. They are not. Backing Wall Street and big banks and status quo isn't liberal.
  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    Free said:

    JC29856 said:

    Electors are voting Sanders instead of Hilliary

    Fantastic!

    JimmyV said:

    It is true that there is a radical contingent of leftists who are criticizing the Democratic party. They want to move the party further left, and I actually predict that will happen based on my observations and understanding. We will be left without a center after all this is over. Whether or not that is good for the country will be seen.

    I feel like this is a contradiction. Do most Democrats understand the problem or is it just a radical contingent of leftists criticizing the party?



    Both. It's not an either/or proposition. The folks in the center realize they are outnumbered, kind of like folks in center of the Republican party. If there's ever a need for a third party, it's for the center.
    So you're saying that Hillary is a closet Republican. Because that's basically what She is: more right than center.
    No, I'm saying there are center left Democrats. And there are center right Republicans. There is a difference, no matter how hard you try to change that fact.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,627
    Free said:

    And I'm not saying the above because I simply don't like her. She actually demonstrates not just a centrist position, she actually is pretty conservative based and how liberal the Democratic Party should be. They are not. Backing Wall Street and big banks and status quo isn't liberal.

    Which positions are actually conservative vs. center left? I'm assuming you mean economically. Her positions on Obamacare, TPP, taxes, Dodd Frank, Card Act, etc are firmly center left. You could make an argument on bankruptcy reform, but that was 12 or so years ago. And lots of Dems voted for that.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    edited December 2016
    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,627
    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
    You didn't think the spotted eagle was funny?

    If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,627
    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
    You didn't think the spotted eagle was funny?

    If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.
    Okay Jimmy V...
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163
    edited December 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
    You didn't think the spotted eagle was funny?

    If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.
    Okay Jimmy V...
    Huh?
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
    You didn't think the spotted eagle was funny?

    If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.
    Okay Jimmy V...
    Huh?
    I think he was making reference to the quote sounding like one of the famous basketball coach Jimmy V and not you.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163

    JimmyV said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
    You didn't think the spotted eagle was funny?

    If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.
    Okay Jimmy V...
    Huh?
    I think he was making reference to the quote sounding like one of the famous basketball coach Jimmy V and not you.
    Ah I see.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,627
    JimmyV said:

    JimmyV said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    mrussel1 said:

    JC29856 said:

    Democratic Electors so far have voted for Colin Powell, Bernie Sanders and a spotted eagle instead of Hilliary...telling very telling.

    You're a master at attempting to make dumb shit sound reasonable.
    You didn't think the spotted eagle was funny?

    If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.
    Okay Jimmy V...
    Huh?
    I think he was making reference to the quote sounding like one of the famous basketball coach Jimmy V and not you.
    Ah I see.
    Ha! Yeah, I forgot that was your handle. Jimmy Valvano said it in his ESPN speech before he died.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    They took an electoral vote from Hilliary

    image
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    JC29856 said:

    They took an electoral vote from Hilliary

    image

    Wait maybe their discussing Hilliary having the most faithless electors in 100 years!
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    image
  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    JC29856 said:
    Planting the seed...
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163
    The problem for Hillary will always be that Putin didn't swing this election against her. I absolutely believe the Russians inserted themselves in this election. I am pretty convinced the goal by election day had become to elect Trump. But I don't believe this Russian influence was somehow more pervasive in the Midwest than it was in California. I don't believe it was more effective in Pennsylvania than it was in New Jersey. She was a flawed candidate with an ineffective message and campaign that believed it owned the votes of a winning coalition the guy before them had built. They were wrong in many ways and that, not Vladimir Putin, is why she lost so many states Barack Obama won twice.

    So I don't really want to hear Hillary Clinton or John Podesta or Jennifer Palmieri complaining about Russia or Comey or Wiki. I want to hear them take responsibility for the role their mistakes and missteps played in this defeat. And then I want them to get off the stage and let the next generation of Democrats rise up to fix this mess.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV said:

    The problem for Hillary will always be that Putin didn't swing this election against her. I absolutely believe the Russians inserted themselves in this election. I am pretty convinced the goal by election day had become to elect Trump. But I don't believe this Russian influence was somehow more pervasive in the Midwest than it was in California. I don't believe it was more effective in Pennsylvania than it was in New Jersey. She was a flawed candidate with an ineffective message and campaign that believed it owned the votes of a winning coalition the guy before them had built. They were wrong in many ways and that, not Vladimir Putin, is why she lost so many states Barack Obama won twice.

    So I don't really want to hear Hillary Clinton or John Podesta or Jennifer Palmieri complaining about Russia or Comey or Wiki. I want to hear them take responsibility for the role their mistakes and missteps played in this defeat. And then I want them to get off the stage and let the next generation of Democrats rise up to fix this mess.

    true, but it's going to take a lot of fixin, the current state of the democratic party didn't just happen over night it's been festering like a pimple on America's ass for years .....so has the republican party but I'm hoping Trump is going to kick em both on the ass and jump start both parties.

  • FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited December 2016
    JimmyV said:

    The problem for Hillary will always be that Putin didn't swing this election against her. I absolutely believe the Russians inserted themselves in this election. I am pretty convinced the goal by election day had become to elect Trump. But I don't believe this Russian influence was somehow more pervasive in the Midwest than it was in California. I don't believe it was more effective in Pennsylvania than it was in New Jersey. She was a flawed candidate with an ineffective message and campaign that believed it owned the votes of a winning coalition the guy before them had built. They were wrong in many ways and that, not Vladimir Putin, is why she lost so many states Barack Obama won twice.

    So I don't really want to hear Hillary Clinton or John Podesta or Jennifer Palmieri complaining about Russia or Comey or Wiki. I want to hear them take responsibility for the role their mistakes and missteps played in this defeat. And then I want them to get off the stage and let the next generation of Democrats rise up to fix this mess.

    How friggin long will it take for them to take responsibility?? And then get the Dem party functioning? Enough already!!

    Yeah, a functioning and decent party to come back from defeat doesn't happen overnight, but admitting defeat and taking responsibility actually does. 5 weeks already!
    Post edited by Free on
  • Free said:

    JimmyV said:

    The problem for Hillary will always be that Putin didn't swing this election against her. I absolutely believe the Russians inserted themselves in this election. I am pretty convinced the goal by election day had become to elect Trump. But I don't believe this Russian influence was somehow more pervasive in the Midwest than it was in California. I don't believe it was more effective in Pennsylvania than it was in New Jersey. She was a flawed candidate with an ineffective message and campaign that believed it owned the votes of a winning coalition the guy before them had built. They were wrong in many ways and that, not Vladimir Putin, is why she lost so many states Barack Obama won twice.

    So I don't really want to hear Hillary Clinton or John Podesta or Jennifer Palmieri complaining about Russia or Comey or Wiki. I want to hear them take responsibility for the role their mistakes and missteps played in this defeat. And then I want them to get off the stage and let the next generation of Democrats rise up to fix this mess.

    How friggin long will it take for them to take responsibility?? And then get the Dem party functioning? Enough already!!

    Yeah, a functioning and decent party to come back from defeat doesn't happen overnight, but admitting defeat and taking responsibility actually does. 5 weeks already!
    it's a classic example of a few of the things wrong with the dem party, so hungry for power and control they are beside themselves with anger and fear.

  • what dreamswhat dreams Posts: 1,761
    What's more important? The losing Dems to blame and wallow in their guilt or get the party functioning again?

    In five weeks, I have seen the congressional caucus appoint Sanders as head of outreach. I have heard him endorse, with the backing of major activist and lobbying groups, the hiring of Keith Ellison as head of the DNC. No other candidate has emerged other than Howard Dean. I see these actions as moving in the direction of change. We will see that process unfold over the next month.

    Many of the old guard Democrats have retired from Congress. Younger members will have to emerge just by default, starting in January. Nancy Pelosi is a figurehead at this point. I don't begrudge her role as fundraiser. It's a shitty job but somebody's gotta do it. There is another Tim Ryan, a Democrat from Ohio, who has been speaking publicly about the need for change in the House, and I think he will be someone to watch this next cycle.

    The local parties are active in keeping members involved for 2020. I can't speak for anybody but me, but I can say I will be attending two events in January -- one an organizing brunch and another a fundraiser ($25.00 for a bowl of soup, hardly a corporate buy out). I think if everyone were to stay as involved, things will change.

    I guess I see these things because I look for them. I don't have time to demand that Hillary say whatever I think she should say. That won't change a thing, even if it makes me feel better (which it won't). Here's to moving on . . .
  • Why is it with the election over, there are still people obsessed with tearing Hillary Clinton down?

    That's easy, because they have NOTHING good to say about their candidate.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,627
    It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,163

    What's more important? The losing Dems to blame and wallow in their guilt or get the party functioning again?

    In five weeks, I have seen the congressional caucus appoint Sanders as head of outreach. I have heard him endorse, with the backing of major activist and lobbying groups, the hiring of Keith Ellison as head of the DNC. No other candidate has emerged other than Howard Dean. I see these actions as moving in the direction of change. We will see that process unfold over the next month.

    Many of the old guard Democrats have retired from Congress. Younger members will have to emerge just by default, starting in January. Nancy Pelosi is a figurehead at this point. I don't begrudge her role as fundraiser. It's a shitty job but somebody's gotta do it. There is another Tim Ryan, a Democrat from Ohio, who has been speaking publicly about the need for change in the House, and I think he will be someone to watch this next cycle.

    The local parties are active in keeping members involved for 2020. I can't speak for anybody but me, but I can say I will be attending two events in January -- one an organizing brunch and another a fundraiser ($25.00 for a bowl of soup, hardly a corporate buy out). I think if everyone were to stay as involved, things will change.

    I guess I see these things because I look for them. I don't have time to demand that Hillary say whatever I think she should say. That won't change a thing, even if it makes me feel better (which it won't). Here's to moving on . . .

    Tom Perez has announced his candidacy and will pose a formidable challenge to Ellison.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/12/15/labor-secretary-tom-perez-officially-launches-dnc-bid/?utm_term=.5d70178932d7

    Tim Ryan was easily defeated by Nancy Pelosi in the speaker's race.

    Where were the Democrats in this month's Louisiana senate runoff? Mike Pence and Donald Trump both visited the state in the closing days of the race. Prominent national figures in the Democratic party were largely absent and silent. The GOP chalked up another victory.

    Moving on is fine, provided the party learns from this experience. I'm unconvinced it has. Yesterday was Russia day. Today appears to be Comey day. Moving on isn't synonymous with granting a blanket pardon.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,627

    Free said:

    JimmyV said:

    The problem for Hillary will always be that Putin didn't swing this election against her. I absolutely believe the Russians inserted themselves in this election. I am pretty convinced the goal by election day had become to elect Trump. But I don't believe this Russian influence was somehow more pervasive in the Midwest than it was in California. I don't believe it was more effective in Pennsylvania than it was in New Jersey. She was a flawed candidate with an ineffective message and campaign that believed it owned the votes of a winning coalition the guy before them had built. They were wrong in many ways and that, not Vladimir Putin, is why she lost so many states Barack Obama won twice.

    So I don't really want to hear Hillary Clinton or John Podesta or Jennifer Palmieri complaining about Russia or Comey or Wiki. I want to hear them take responsibility for the role their mistakes and missteps played in this defeat. And then I want them to get off the stage and let the next generation of Democrats rise up to fix this mess.

    How friggin long will it take for them to take responsibility?? And then get the Dem party functioning? Enough already!!

    Yeah, a functioning and decent party to come back from defeat doesn't happen overnight, but admitting defeat and taking responsibility actually does. 5 weeks already!
    it's a classic example of a few of the things wrong with the dem party, so hungry for power and control they are beside themselves with anger and fear.

    This makes no fucking sense whatsoever. You just strung together some words that are not connected by any concrete examples. Please explain how the deomocrats on this board are so hungry for power that we are besides ourselves with fear. What that fuck does that even mean?
  • Yeah when dems are in power people are taken care of at least. I truly don't understand how GF can be in a union and spew that garbage.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Posts: 20,103
    edited December 2016
    mrussel1 said:

    It's all very strange considering she won almost 3 MM more votes. She lost because she lost in the wrong place, not because Trump's message resonated with more Americans vs hers. Let's be crystal clear about that. If it were true, he would have won the popular vote. The re-formation of a strategy is how to take a message that resonates with a MAJORITY of Americans and apply it to a few key swing states.

    I can't get over it....she lost by 77,000 votes (combined) in the three states that tilted the election yet she won the overall majority vote by 3,000,000....fucking insane

    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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