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Hillary won more votes for President

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    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,683

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    H2M:
    "D", Wear tin foil hats. And proud of it, my friend!

    Free:
    "E", Are voting 3rd party via "A", Are informed by doing research of the candidates and issues, all the way and proud of it, my friend!

    Vote your conscience!

    You know what I hate though about politics? It almost always leads to causing offense to people you otherwise care for. I know I've done that here. I'll bet almost everyone has. Not a good way to come together is it? It's sad. Fuck politics.

    Yeah but the big fact is none of us will ever get to meet each other face to face ...
    Probably but if we did I'm fairly certain it would be a good time all around!
    Maybe, but I'm guessing I might receive some hostility. Whatever.
    There are only two people on these boards who would get any hostility from me in person, and you aren't one of them. :)
    Oh, so you're still bitter from when I told you about that weird dream I had about your apartment, right? :lol:
    :rofl: Yeah, and I'll be all hostile and up in your face about it if we meet. :tongue:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,683
    edited September 2016
    I just feel like the whole email thing is like beating a dead horse. The woman is still running for POTUS. She is not going to jail. There are no charges. It is not criminal. We already know about it,why it's concerning, and there isn't anything new. Meanwhilw, Trump is still worse to a whole lot of people for a lot of very good reasons. This is why people don't appear to care about this. Not because they are "blind" to the issues or following blindly, not because they can't be objective, but because there is no point in talking about it anymore. Unless Clinton is arrested, there is no real reason to continously complain about it or act like there are "new revelations", because theren actually aren't. And clearly Clinton is not disqualified from anything.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    Boxes&BooksBoxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672
    PJ_Soul said:

    I just feel like the whole email thing is like beating a dead horse. The woman is still running for POTUS. She is not going to jail. There are no charges. It is not criminal. We already know about it,why it's concerning, and there isn't anything new. Meanwhilw, Trump is still worse to a whole lot of people for a lot of very good reasons. This is why people don't appear to care about this. Not because they are "blind" to the issues or following blindly, not because they can't be objective, but because there is no point in talking about it anymore. Unless Clinton is arrested, there is no real reason to continously complain about it or act like there are "new revelations", because theren actually aren't. And clearly Clinton is not disqualified from anything.

    No real reason? People don't care? Are you fucking joking?!?
    New details come up and the public wants to know about it. Why? Because it's more info than we previously had. People
    Also want to know about it just as they want to know about which celebrity is fucking who. It might not be the same caliber of people, but our interest in our public figures is huge.

    There is plenty of reasons to talk about it. These are our goddam politicians! We must put the pressure on them to keep them honest. If more evidence is released and some of it happens to be incriminating should be just shrug it off and ignore it because things like this aren't important?

    If we're posting more information it's not because we have some personal vendetta, it's because we're doing what we can to help shape and protect our democracy.

    This email situation is still alive and the more information I get on it the more informed I become. Just heard that Hillary was taking tips from Collin Powell. Interesting stuff. There's no way in hell I would take advice from your post and give up the fight to keep our politicians honest
  • Options
    FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    Excuses, excuses. Nothing to see here!

    It's like beating a dead horse, Tonifig.
  • Options
    Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,708
    Tonifig, why do you think there was so little interest in the 5 million "lost" RNC emails that included 22 white house staffers when Bush Jr. was president?
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,190

    Tonifig, why do you think there was so little interest in the 5 million "lost" RNC emails that included 22 white house staffers when Bush Jr. was president?

    But that was different!! It wasn't a clinton!!
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Options
    Boxes&BooksBoxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672

    Tonifig, why do you think there was so little interest in the 5 million "lost" RNC emails that included 22 white house staffers when Bush Jr. was president?

    But that was different!! It wasn't a clinton!!
    Ah c'mon, gimmie. I'm a progressive, not sure if you're somehow now trying to suggest I'm rep or something like that. I was also a diehard Obama supporter, and when he supported the patriot act I was the first to attack him on it.

    What I'm saying about Clinton is practical. It's not complicated or a personal matter. You were after bush when he avoided the press, and when he got a shoe thrown at him you were all over it. Why put a politician above our democracy or above it's citizens
  • Options
    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,683
    edited September 2016
    tonifig8 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just feel like the whole email thing is like beating a dead horse. The woman is still running for POTUS. She is not going to jail. There are no charges. It is not criminal. We already know about it,why it's concerning, and there isn't anything new. Meanwhilw, Trump is still worse to a whole lot of people for a lot of very good reasons. This is why people don't appear to care about this. Not because they are "blind" to the issues or following blindly, not because they can't be objective, but because there is no point in talking about it anymore. Unless Clinton is arrested, there is no real reason to continously complain about it or act like there are "new revelations", because theren actually aren't. And clearly Clinton is not disqualified from anything.

    No real reason? People don't care? Are you fucking joking?!?
    New details come up and the public wants to know about it. Why? Because it's more info than we previously had. People
    Also want to know about it just as they want to know about which celebrity is fucking who. It might not be the same caliber of people, but our interest in our public figures is huge.

    There is plenty of reasons to talk about it. These are our goddam politicians! We must put the pressure on them to keep them honest. If more evidence is released and some of it happens to be incriminating should be just shrug it off and ignore it because things like this aren't important?

    If we're posting more information it's not because we have some personal vendetta, it's because we're doing what we can to help shape and protect our democracy.

    This email situation is still alive and the more information I get on it the more informed I become. Just heard that Hillary was taking tips from Collin Powell. Interesting stuff. There's no way in hell I would take advice from your post and give up the fight to keep our politicians honest
    I mean that those voting for Hillary don't care in the sense that it's not going to change their minds. And I didn't say no one should talk about it. I was explaining why it's not making those who will vote for Hillary not vote for her, as some of you here apparently keep expecting. And also there doesn't seem to be any real information coming to light anymore. It's just the same thing being rehashed over and over. When/if there is something new then great.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    H2M:
    "D", Wear tin foil hats. And proud of it, my friend!

    Free:
    "E", Are voting 3rd party via "A", Are informed by doing research of the candidates and issues, all the way and proud of it, my friend!

    Vote your conscience!

    You know what I hate though about politics? It almost always leads to causing offense to people you otherwise care for. I know I've done that here. I'll bet almost everyone has. Not a good way to come together is it? It's sad. Fuck politics.

    Yeah but the big fact is none of us will ever get to meet each other face to face ...
    Probably but if we did I'm fairly certain it would be a good time all around!
    Maybe, but I'm guessing I might receive some hostility. Whatever.
    There are only two people on these boards who would get any hostility from me in person, and you aren't one of them. :)
    that'd probably be me......but who else on this board is as up front as me ???????? ahhhhhhhh Free your in troooooouble LOL !!!!!!!!

    Godfather.

  • Options
    Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    tonifig8 said:
    that same look on her face more and more Hillary supporters are getting everyday........

    Godfather.

  • Options
    FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    edited September 2016

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    H2M:
    "D", Wear tin foil hats. And proud of it, my friend!

    Free:
    "E", Are voting 3rd party via "A", Are informed by doing research of the candidates and issues, all the way and proud of it, my friend!

    Vote your conscience!

    You know what I hate though about politics? It almost always leads to causing offense to people you otherwise care for. I know I've done that here. I'll bet almost everyone has. Not a good way to come together is it? It's sad. Fuck politics.

    Yeah but the big fact is none of us will ever get to meet each other face to face ...
    Probably but if we did I'm fairly certain it would be a good time all around!
    Maybe, but I'm guessing I might receive some hostility. Whatever.
    There are only two people on these boards who would get any hostility from me in person, and you aren't one of them. :)
    that'd probably be me......but who else on this board is as up front as me ???????? ahhhhhhhh Free your in troooooouble LOL !!!!!!!!

    Godfather.

    :lol:
  • Options
    FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    PJ_Soul said:

    tonifig8 said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    I just feel like the whole email thing is like beating a dead horse. The woman is still running for POTUS. She is not going to jail. There are no charges. It is not criminal. We already know about it,why it's concerning, and there isn't anything new. Meanwhilw, Trump is still worse to a whole lot of people for a lot of very good reasons. This is why people don't appear to care about this. Not because they are "blind" to the issues or following blindly, not because they can't be objective, but because there is no point in talking about it anymore. Unless Clinton is arrested, there is no real reason to continously complain about it or act like there are "new revelations", because theren actually aren't. And clearly Clinton is not disqualified from anything.

    No real reason? People don't care? Are you fucking joking?!?
    New details come up and the public wants to know about it. Why? Because it's more info than we previously had. People
    Also want to know about it just as they want to know about which celebrity is fucking who. It might not be the same caliber of people, but our interest in our public figures is huge.

    There is plenty of reasons to talk about it. These are our goddam politicians! We must put the pressure on them to keep them honest. If more evidence is released and some of it happens to be incriminating should be just shrug it off and ignore it because things like this aren't important?

    If we're posting more information it's not because we have some personal vendetta, it's because we're doing what we can to help shape and protect our democracy.

    This email situation is still alive and the more information I get on it the more informed I become. Just heard that Hillary was taking tips from Collin Powell. Interesting stuff. There's no way in hell I would take advice from your post and give up the fight to keep our politicians honest
    I mean that those voting for Hillary don't care in the sense that it's not going to change their minds. And I didn't say no one should talk about it. I was explaining why it's not making those who will vote for Hillary not vote for her, as some of you here apparently keep expecting. And also there doesn't seem to be any real information coming to light anymore. It's just the same thing being rehashed over and over. When/if there is something new then great.
    Yeah voting for her out of fear will not even entertain any questionable behavior... That's what voting based on fear does: erase all questionable behavior.
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    FreeFree Posts: 3,562
    brianlux said:

    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.

    I'm up for that, though tired of Obama. Do over!!
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,190
    tonifig8 said:

    Tonifig, why do you think there was so little interest in the 5 million "lost" RNC emails that included 22 white house staffers when Bush Jr. was president?

    But that was different!! It wasn't a clinton!!
    Ah c'mon, gimmie. I'm a progressive, not sure if you're somehow now trying to suggest I'm rep or something like that. I was also a diehard Obama supporter, and when he supported the patriot act I was the first to attack him on it.

    What I'm saying about Clinton is practical. It's not complicated or a personal matter. You were after bush when he avoided the press, and when he got a shoe thrown at him you were all over it. Why put a politician above our democracy or above it's citizens
    I know. I was being a smartass by giving my Fox news analysis. Since the emoticons are new I couldn't find one for shifty, haha.

    I wish that shoe would have hit w right in his tiny balls. That would have been the greatest viral video of all time. He would have gone "back and to the left, back and to the left, back and to the left...."
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    Free said:

    brianlux said:

    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.

    I'm up for that, though tired of Obama. Do over!!
    Oh what the hell, let's give it to Joe for the next year.

    No!! Biden, not Six Pack!! :lol:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,683
    edited September 2016

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    H2M:
    "D", Wear tin foil hats. And proud of it, my friend!

    Free:
    "E", Are voting 3rd party via "A", Are informed by doing research of the candidates and issues, all the way and proud of it, my friend!

    Vote your conscience!

    You know what I hate though about politics? It almost always leads to causing offense to people you otherwise care for. I know I've done that here. I'll bet almost everyone has. Not a good way to come together is it? It's sad. Fuck politics.

    Yeah but the big fact is none of us will ever get to meet each other face to face ...
    Probably but if we did I'm fairly certain it would be a good time all around!
    Maybe, but I'm guessing I might receive some hostility. Whatever.
    There are only two people on these boards who would get any hostility from me in person, and you aren't one of them. :)
    that'd probably be me......but who else on this board is as up front as me ???????? ahhhhhhhh Free your in troooooouble LOL !!!!!!!!

    Godfather.

    Lol, no, not you either GF! Not Free either. Not that anyone cares, but the only people I really can't tolerate here are the trolls. I would never be hostile towards someone or decline to chat with them just because I don't agree with them,not even if their opinions pissed me off or frustrate me.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Options
    brianlux said:

    Free said:

    brianlux said:

    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.

    I'm up for that, though tired of Obama. Do over!!
    Oh what the hell, let's give it to Joe for the next year.

    No!! Biden, not Six Pack!! :lol:
    I prefer the plumber.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Options
    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    brianlux said:

    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.

    So because the process that Americans blow their own horns over ... this so called democracy is working for some of you want to violate the constitution and keep another war monger in power ...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    lukin2006 said:

    brianlux said:

    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.

    So because the process that Americans blow their own horns over ... this so called democracy is working for some of you want to violate the constitution and keep another war monger in power ...
    A rather confusing sentence, lukin.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    brianlux said:

    lukin2006 said:

    brianlux said:

    I say we disqualify Clinton on the basis of being dishonest and/or (if she really thought what she did was OK) inept and disqualify Trump on the basis of being Trump and give Obama another year in office while we start this election process over again. Not very many people are going to be truly pleased with either outcome as it stands now and, in fact, a Trump or HRC presidency will be a disaster in the long run. Call this race a false start and bring in some new runners.

    So because the process that Americans blow their own horns over ... this so called democracy is working for some of you want to violate the constitution and keep another war monger in power ...
    A rather confusing sentence, lukin.
    You'd rather keep a war monger in power than live with the process that most Americans trip over themselves gloating about?
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Options
    lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Brian, it's irrelevant anyways, every president you elect is a war monger ... why is that? Why the need to get involved in conflicts.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802
    lukin2006 said:

    Brian, it's irrelevant anyways, every president you elect is a war monger ... why is that? Why the need to get involved in conflicts.

    It sure seems that way but I'm not sure all of our presidents personally are war mongers. In any case, we are a warring nation and if when and how to stop that is a very difficult question. Rather depressing to think about, lukin.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    PJ_Soul said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    unsung said:

    brianlux said:

    brianlux said:

    H2M:
    "D", Wear tin foil hats. And proud of it, my friend!

    Free:
    "E", Are voting 3rd party via "A", Are informed by doing research of the candidates and issues, all the way and proud of it, my friend!

    Vote your conscience!

    You know what I hate though about politics? It almost always leads to causing offense to people you otherwise care for. I know I've done that here. I'll bet almost everyone has. Not a good way to come together is it? It's sad. Fuck politics.

    Yeah but the big fact is none of us will ever get to meet each other face to face ...
    Probably but if we did I'm fairly certain it would be a good time all around!
    Maybe, but I'm guessing I might receive some hostility. Whatever.
    There are only two people on these boards who would get any hostility from me in person, and you aren't one of them. :)
    that'd probably be me......but who else on this board is as up front as me ???????? ahhhhhhhh Free your in troooooouble LOL !!!!!!!!

    Godfather.

    Lol, no, not you either GF! Not Free either. Not that anyone cares, but the only people I really can't tolerate here are the trolls. I would never be hostile towards someone or decline to chat with them just because I don't agree with them,not even if their opinions pissed me off or frustrate me.
    just having fun PJ_Soul LOL !! hope you had a great weekend.

    Godfather.

  • Options
    eddieceddiec Posts: 3,841
    lukin2006 said:

    Brian, it's irrelevant anyways, every president you elect is a war monger ... why is that? Why the need to get involved in conflicts.

    Why? Because wars=money. If there is no possibility to profit the US doesn't get involved.
  • Options
    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,190
    brianlux said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Brian, it's irrelevant anyways, every president you elect is a war monger ... why is that? Why the need to get involved in conflicts.

    It sure seems that way but I'm not sure all of our presidents personally are war mongers. In any case, we are a warring nation and if when and how to stop that is a very difficult question. Rather depressing to think about, lukin.
    Jimmy Carter wasn't a war monger. Not a single bomb dropped during his time in office.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Options
    Boxes&BooksBoxes&Books USA Posts: 2,672
    Not trying to stir the pot, but I think this was hillary's first press interview in 9 months:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhZJBHrX-T8
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,802

    brianlux said:

    lukin2006 said:

    Brian, it's irrelevant anyways, every president you elect is a war monger ... why is that? Why the need to get involved in conflicts.

    It sure seems that way but I'm not sure all of our presidents personally are war mongers. In any case, we are a warring nation and if when and how to stop that is a very difficult question. Rather depressing to think about, lukin.
    Jimmy Carter wasn't a war monger. Not a single bomb dropped during his time in office.
    Good point! Though not not perfect, Carter was one of my favorite of the 11 in office in my lifetime.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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