Not even a mention of 9/11 !

oftenreading

Drowned Out said:

continued:

About 10:30 on the morning of the 12th a convoy of school buses showed up. We got off the plane and were taken to the terminal where we went through Immigration and Customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.

After that we (the crew) were separated from the passengers and were taken in vans to a small hotel.

We had no idea where our passengers were going. We learned from the Red Cross that the town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people and they had about 10,500 passengers to take care of from all the airplanes that were forced into Gander!

We were told to just relax at the hotel and we would be contacted when the US airports opened again, but not to expect that call for a while.

We found out the total scope of the terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV, 24 hours after it all started.

Meanwhile, we had lots of time on our hands and found that the people of Gander were extremely friendly. They started calling us the “plane people.” We enjoyed their hospitality, explored the town of Gander and ended up having a pretty good time.
Two days later, we got that call and were taken back to the Gander airport. Back on the plane, we were reunited with the passengers and found out what they had been doing for the past two days.
What we found out was incredible…..
Gander and all the surrounding communities (within about a 75 Kilometer radius) had closed all high schools, meeting halls, lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these facilities to mass lodging areas for all the stranded travelers.
Some had cots set up, some had mats with sleeping bags and pillows set up.
ALL the high school students were required to volunteer their time to take care of the “guests.”

Our 218 passengers ended up in a town called Lewisporte, about 45 kilometers from Gander where they were put up in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women-only facility, that was arranged.

Families were kept together. All the elderly passengers were taken to private homes.

Remember that young pregnant lady? She was put up in a private home right across the street from a 24-hour Urgent Care facility. There was a dentist on call and both male and female nurses remained with the crowd for the duration.

Phone calls and e-mails to the U.S. and around the world were available to everyone once a day.

During the day, passengers were offered “Excursion” trips.

Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some went for hikes in the local forests.

Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh bread for the guests.

Food was prepared by all the residents and brought to the schools. People were driven to restaurants of their choice and offered wonderful meals. Everyone was given tokens for local laundry mats to wash their clothes, since luggage was still on the aircraft.

In other words, every single need was met for those stranded travelers.
Passengers were crying while telling us these stories. Finally, when they were told that U.S. airports had reopened, they were delivered to the airport right on time and without a single passenger missing or late. The local Red Cross had all the information about the whereabouts of each and every passenger and knew which plane they needed to be on and when all the planes were leaving. They coordinated everything beautifully.
It was absolutely incredible.

When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise. Everyone knew each other by name. They were swapping stories of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time.

Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a chartered party flight. The crew just stayed out of their way. It was mind-boggling.

Passengers had totally bonded and were calling each other by their first names, exchanging phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses.
And then a very unusual thing happened.

One of our passengers approached me and asked if he could make an announcement over the PA system. We never, ever allow that. But this time was different. I said “of course” and handed him the mike. He picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had just gone through in the last few days.

He reminded them of the hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers.
He continued by saying that he would like to do something in return for the good folks of Lewisporte.

“He said he was going to set up a Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose of the trust fund is to provide college scholarships for the high school students of Lewisporte.

He asked for donations of any amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, the total was for more than $14,000!

“The gentleman, a MD from Virginia , promised to match the donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask them to donate as well.

As I write this account, the trust fund is at more than $1.5 million and has assisted 134 students in college education.

Pretty cool story, huh. It reminds us of how many helpful people there are in the world. The ones who aren't helpful just get a lot more press

Thanks for posting this, Drowned Out. It helps to be reminded that most people do want to do the right thing, and will do it when an opportunity is offered (although some need a little help/encouragement).

brianlux

Drowned Out said:

Why do people keep inferring that I think 'the government was behind it'? I have never once said that....IF there was people in the know, or complicit, it was a handful of people on the inside, and a bunch more in the private sector who didn't know they were a part of it.
Yes, there would be easier ways, but none that would sell the public on a 1.5 decade long (so far) campaign of aggression. To use a similar story - how long did people stay upset about the incubator baby fabrication prior to the Gulf War?

brianlux said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I don't think anyone was questioning your credibility drowned. You still ha e questions that you feel are unanswered, fine. I feel like many of the questions you're asking has been answered logically and you don't believe them. That's fine too.

I wonder if we'll ever really know the truth about all this. After 14 years, I'm not convinced we know all the facts. One of the thing that gives me some doubts about the conspiracy theories- was this statement from Gore Vidal:

“I’m not a conspiracy theorist—I’m a conspiracy analyst,” explained Vidal in 2007. “Everything the Bushites touch is screwed up. They could never have pulled off 9/11, even if they wanted to. Even if they longed to. They could step aside, though, or just go out to lunch while all these terrible things were happening to the nation. Yeah. I believe that of them.”

Funny to read this part of the quote....going back to the doc I posted, the entire chain of command that day was either new in their post, a temp, or unavailable.
Where was the secretary of defense during the attacks? the documentary covers this...does anyone else here know?
If the 'gone to lunch' approach is more plausible to some here....do you think this implies foreknowledge, or is it just coincidence and incompetence?

I've said it before and will again....the 'bush admin were a bunch of idiots' is a terrible way out of this. If you think Al Qaeda could orchestrate this attack, but the US MIC or intelligence apparatus or whomever couldn't, then I don't even know what to say. The most powerful nation on earth run by people who are totally inept at what they do best - acts of war.....ok?

I don't think it was so much a matter of "gone to lunch" as it was the more obvious "out to lunch".

rgambs

Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has.
Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.

Godfather.

isn't Afghanistan one of the major suppliers of heroin ?

Godfather.

Bentleyspop

Godfather. said:

isn't Afghanistan one of the major suppliers of heroin ?

Godfather.

Yup

Last-12-Exit

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?

1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet.
2. walmart
3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no?
seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it

btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored?
And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember

I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.

rgambs said:

Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has.
Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.

This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.

rgambs

Last-12-Exit said:

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?

1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet.
2. walmart
3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no?
seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it

btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored?
And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember

I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.

rgambs said:

Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has.
Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.

This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.

I'm not talking about 9/11 conspiracy, I am talking about the obvious link between heroin (not synthetic opioid) and the poppy fields of Afghanistan. We replaced Taliban warlords with heroin warlords and heroin in the US has risen sharply ever since.

Bentleyspop

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?

1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet.
2. walmart
3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no?
seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it

btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored?
And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember

I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.

rgambs said:

Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has.
Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.

This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.

I'm not talking about 9/11 conspiracy, I am talking about the obvious link between heroin (not synthetic opioid) and the poppy fields of Afghanistan. We replaced Taliban warlords with heroin warlords and heroin in the US has risen sharply ever since.

It has been shown that the rise in heroin use is directly related to prescription opioids being harder to get and being very expensive. As well as the prevalence of low cost heroin coming in from Mexico.

rgambs

Bentleyspop said:

rgambs said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?

1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet.
2. walmart
3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no?
seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it

btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored?
And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember

I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.

rgambs said:

Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has.
Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.

This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.

I'm not talking about 9/11 conspiracy, I am talking about the obvious link between heroin (not synthetic opioid) and the poppy fields of Afghanistan. We replaced Taliban warlords with heroin warlords and heroin in the US has risen sharply ever since.

It has been shown that the rise in heroin use is directly related to prescription opioids being harder to get and being very expensive. As well as the prevalence of low cost heroin coming in from Mexico.

They don't grow much poppy in Mexico. Opioid availability explains the demand, Afghanistan explains the supply.

Gern Blansten

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?

These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think....
The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?

So all of the eyewitnesses that saw the plane fly into the Pentagon are plants? The plane debris was planted?

Drowned Out

Why are we splitting hairs over where the heroin comes from? It's an international market - this isn't just about the US. the Taliban virtually eliminated the crop. After the coalition went into Afghanistan and removed the Taliban, production skyrocketed to levels higher than pre-Taliban. There is evidence of CIA involvement in the trade throughout the years, and evidence of US soldiers guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan. The number I quoted earlier (40 bil since 2001) is extrapolated ground level price for the crop pre-processing. The retail market for that same crop is more than that annually - upwards of 50 billion. If we use that figure, we're talking 750 billion since 2001. The point is not to control the flow into the US, but to control the market, period. Afghanistan produces 70% of the world's poppy crops - why are we talking about Mexico?
anyway....like I said...this is not the main reason for geopolitical interest in Afghanistan; that's control of pipeline routes (TAPI).http://www.globalresearch.ca/afghanistan-energy-geopolitics-and-the-tapi-pipeline/18329 . I've said this twice now, and both times Last 12 has come back with comments like 'the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade', ignoring the pipeline component of my posts despite being reminded after the first time it was said. Karzai's brother is a heroin kingpin. Karzai is CIA aligned. This has all been widely reported by credible media; even to some degree in the mainstream. If you guys took a few minutes to read into this instead of trying to make me look foolish, you might learn something.

mcgruff10

very interesting video on the pentagon attack. the most compelling evidence to me is the light poles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

Last-12-Exit

I'm not trying to make you look foolish. Nor am I dismissing it. I disagree with your notion that Sept 11 had anything to do with the heroin trade. The increase in heroin use in the untied states is directly related to prescription pain killer addictions.

I'm sure the cia have their hands in the poppy pot, but the idea that we started a war with the Taliban to control poppy fields is not something I'm going to believe in. Throw all the production numbers you want up there, it means little more than people like heroin.

Is poppy seeds used to make Percocet, Lortabs, oxycontin, and other prescription drugs? I would be more in line with your argument if big pharm needed poppy to make their pain killers. But I still wouldn't think it has anything to do with 9/11.

rr165892

Gern Blansten said:

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?

These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think....
The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?

So all of the eyewitnesses that saw the plane fly into the Pentagon are plants? The plane debris was planted?

Exactly.No way to fake this shit.We can't figure out basic shit,but we are smart enough to pull of the worlds biggest charade,nah I don't think it's possible.

rr165892

mcgruff10 said:

very interesting video on the pentagon attack. the most compelling evidence to me is the light poles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVDdjLQkUV8

GREAT clip teach.How can that be disputed? I can't!

ldent42

So this thread didn't happen then? http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/246445/in-memoriam#latest

rr165892

Shame on me.

Drowned Out

Last-12-Exit said:

I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.

The w's are not up to 'truthers' to decide. Besides, the speculation is what leads to ridicule, and oftentimes these days, scorn or even threats...why subject myself to this when you guys are happy with what you've been told? Bin laden is dead, all is right in the world and we've all moved on, right?
"How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked?"
Well....from the flight data recording and eyewitness accounts. Are you just randomly throwing darts to poke holes in the claims? How can you say something doesn't make sense without looking into it at all? Without even talking about the plane's terminal velocity and the issues with the maneuverability at those speeds and altitudes, there are still huge issues with this info.....There were simulations done of the flight path following the release of the data. those simulations and eyewitness accounts contain a multitude of discrepancies in regards to flight path, damage, trajectory, and eyewitness accounts. One of the most referenced simulations was done by Purdue....it is analyzed in the doc I posted around 1:55:00. Also, look into the north approach and south approach discrepancies if you want to learn more. Most eyewitnesses said that the plane approached from the north of the citgo gas station....the light poles were downed on the south side, which is consistent with the official narrative.
For example, the widely publicized photo of the cab that was struck by a falling light pole was not in the flight path in the data recordings. In an interview with those loser 'truthers', this cabby denied on camera that his cab was where it is shown in the pictures, because it DID contradict the flight path....but in off camera recordings admitted that he was indeed at the location that wasn't on the flight path, and that he was a plant...but he said that there was nothing he could do as a whistleblower because he couldn't prove anything 'big'. His wife worked for the fbi. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kvyQ0vVwjqc

Gern Blansten said:

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?

These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think....
The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?

So all of the eyewitnesses that saw the plane fly into the Pentagon are plants? The plane debris was planted?

Maybe. Or maybe the consensus of the witness reports has been exaggerated or falsified? The pilots for truth org I mentioned has an analysis of all witness testimony in thier forums. Check it out if interested. Maybe a grand jury could find out the truth? An actual legal proceeding that could lead to perjury charges, instead of settling on an investigation that was admittedly (by 6 of 10 commissioners) hamstringed by the administration from the start? An investigation headed by someone with ties to the admin? An investigation the admin lobbied to quash from the start, and had 14 months to prepare for before it began?

Drowned Out

oftenreading said:

Thanks for posting this, Drowned Out. It helps to be reminded that most people do want to do the right thing, and will do it when an opportunity is offered (although some need a little help/encouragement).

You're welcome, and yes I agree. There was def a beautiful flipside to the anger created by the attacks that day. Togetherness and faith in humanity.

Drowned Out

Last-12-Exit said:

I'm not trying to make you look foolish. Nor am I dismissing it. I disagree with your notion that Sept 11 had anything to do with the heroin trade. 1.The increase in heroin use in the untied states is directly related to prescription pain killer addictions.

I'm sure the cia have their hands in the poppy pot, but 2. the idea that we started a war with the Taliban to control poppy fields is not something I'm going to believe in. Throw all the production numbers you want up there, it means little more than people like heroin.

Is poppy seeds used to make Percocet, Lortabs, oxycontin, and other prescription drugs? I would be more in line with your argument if big pharm needed poppy to make their pain killers. But I still wouldn't think it has anything to do with 9/11.

1. again. Even if you were right about the increased use, the united states is not the only market for heroin. This statement does nothing to dispute my claims that control of the heroin market provides some motive for the war.
2. ok that's three times you've done this, and I've called you on it twice. IT WAS NOT THE SOLE MOTIVE. Got it? Like.....got it? One more time. It was not the sole motive. You still haven't said a word about the pipelines. sheesh.