1. so what would be the reasons the us government would orchestrate 9/11? or even lie about 9/11? making the war with iraq easier to sell? (2.but why afghanistan first? and what the hell is there to accomplish in the land of afghans) 3.missile shot down flight 93? 4.not a plane at the pentagon but a missile? and where is this missile coming from and what was it aiming at? 5."planted" explosives at wtc 7 and possibly the north and south towers?
not to speculate.... 1. I've already covered this, and the PNAC paper has come up as well....it openly indicates that people within the administration and the upper echelons of the business community (MIC) felt that in order for the US to maintain its hegemonic role as sole world superpower leading into the new century, it needed a 'new pearl harbor' to justify it's actions in the middle east. Zbig's Grand Chessboard covers the reasons it's important to dominate in the middle east and central asia: it contains the world's biggest reserves of energy resources, and the world's biggest population. 2. oil, natural gas, (pipelines in particular) heroin. In other words, a huge source of black ops funding for the CIA drug cartels, and control of central asia via control of resources. Throw Unocal, Taliban, and Dabhol - India into the google box. While you're at it, throw Enron and wtc 7 in there too.... 3. maybe? seems as likely as 'let's roll' to me. 4. missile seems more likely to me than a 757. the plane couldn't do what it's claimed to have done; fly in a bank at 500+mph at low altitude - air pressure at that altitude would have torn the wings off. Boeing reps have said so. Theorists speculate that a drone plane could have been made to look like a commercial jet. I know, I know....next question....where are the passengers? Watch the documentary I posted; I'm not typing out 5 hours worth of info even if I could remember all of it 5.doubtful but not impossible. lots of renos happening in the towers. structural engineers have commented that the core columns could have been rigged with explosives simply by having access to the elevator shafts - at least two of which were under repair. Upgrades to sprinkler systems were underway at the lower floors, upgrades to the internet wiring at others, 36 hour power downs in the days before 9/11 left security cameras unused for of the proceeding days, bomb-sniffing dogs were removed a week or two before the attacks, there were reports of elevator explosions in the tower that hadn't been hit yet that were excluded from the official report (by both WTC maintenance and fire fighters on scene), heightened security was lifted just before the attacks etc....and Marvin Bush was a principal of the company responsible for WTC, Dulles international, and United Airlines. From memory, and I'm not sure if any of that has been thoroughly debunked or not, but all worth thinking about, and to my knowledge, not addressed in any investigation.
Seriously, awesome rebuttal to my questions. Do i agree, no, but I reread your post close to a dozen times which means you really made me think. Can we go jfk assassination next?!
On a more positive note...I see this posted on fb every year around this time. Always get something in my eye. I guess there's a book about it. Long but worth the read if you haven't seen it before.
From a flight attendant on Delta Flight 15, written following 9-11:
On the morning of Tuesday, September 11, we were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt, flying over the North Atlantic.
All of a sudden the curtains parted and I was told to go to the cockpit, immediately, to see the captain.
As soon as I got there I noticed that the crew had that “All Business” look on their faces. The captain handed me a printed message. It was from Delta’s main office in Atlanta and simply read, “All airways over the Continental United States are closed to commercial air traffic. Land ASAP at the nearest airport. Advise your destination.”
No one said a word about what this could mean. We knew it was a serious situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. The captain determined that the nearest airport was 400 miles behind us in Gander, Newfoundland. He requested approval for a route change from the Canadian traffic controller and approval was granted immediately — no questions asked. We found out later, of course, why there was no hesitation in approving our request.
While the flight crew prepared the airplane for landing, another message arrived from Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area. A few minutes later word came in about the hijackings.
We decided to LIE to the passengers while we were still in the air. We told them the plane had a simple instrument problem and that we needed to land at the nearest airport in Gander, Newfoundland, to have it checked out. We promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There was much grumbling among the passengers, but that’s nothing new! Forty minutes later, we landed in Gander. Local time at Gander was 12:30 PM …. that’s 11:00 AM EST.
There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over the world that had taken this detour on their way to the US.
After we parked on the ramp, the captain made the following announcement: “Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. The reality is that we are here for another reason.”
Then he went on to explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were loud gasps and stares of disbelief. The captain informed passengers that Ground control in Gander told us to stay put.
The Canadian Government was in charge of our situation and no one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on the ground was allowed to come near any of the air crafts. Only airport police would come around periodically, look us over and go on to the next airplane.
In the next hour or so more planes landed and Gander ended up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, 27 of which were US commercial jets. Meanwhile, bits of news started to come in over the aircraft radio and for the first time we learned that airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center in New York and into the Pentagon in DC.
People were trying to use their cell phones, but were unable to connect due to a different cell system in Canada . Some did get through, but were only able to get to the Canadian operator who would tell them that the lines to the U.S. were either blocked or jammed.
Sometime in the evening the news filtered to us that the World Trade Center buildings had collapsed and that a fourth hijacking had resulted in a crash. By now the passengers were emotionally and physically exhausted, not to mention frightened, but everyone stayed amazingly calm. We had only to look out the window at the 52 other stranded aircraft to realize that we were not the only ones in this predicament. We had been told earlier that they would be allowing people off the planes one plane at a time. At 6 PM, Gander airport told us that our turn to deplane would be 11 am the next morning.
Passengers were not happy, but they simply resigned themselves to this news without much noise and started to prepare themselves to spend the night on the airplane.
Gander had promised us medical attention, if needed, water, and lavatory servicing.And they were true to their word.
Fortunately, we had no medical situations to worry about. We did have a young lady who was 33 weeks into her pregnancy. We took REALLY good care of her. The night passed without incident despite the uncomfortable sleeping arrangements.
About 10:30 on the morning of the 12th a convoy of school buses showed up. We got off the plane and were taken to the terminal where we went through Immigration and Customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.
After that we (the crew) were separated from the passengers and were taken in vans to a small hotel.
We had no idea where our passengers were going. We learned from the Red Cross that the town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people and they had about 10,500 passengers to take care of from all the airplanes that were forced into Gander!
We were told to just relax at the hotel and we would be contacted when the US airports opened again, but not to expect that call for a while.
We found out the total scope of the terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV, 24 hours after it all started.
Meanwhile, we had lots of time on our hands and found that the people of Gander were extremely friendly. They started calling us the “plane people.” We enjoyed their hospitality, explored the town of Gander and ended up having a pretty good time. Two days later, we got that call and were taken back to the Gander airport. Back on the plane, we were reunited with the passengers and found out what they had been doing for the past two days. What we found out was incredible….. Gander and all the surrounding communities (within about a 75 Kilometer radius) had closed all high schools, meeting halls, lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these facilities to mass lodging areas for all the stranded travelers. Some had cots set up, some had mats with sleeping bags and pillows set up. ALL the high school students were required to volunteer their time to take care of the “guests.”
Our 218 passengers ended up in a town called Lewisporte, about 45 kilometers from Gander where they were put up in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women-only facility, that was arranged.
Families were kept together. All the elderly passengers were taken to private homes.
Remember that young pregnant lady? She was put up in a private home right across the street from a 24-hour Urgent Care facility. There was a dentist on call and both male and female nurses remained with the crowd for the duration.
Phone calls and e-mails to the U.S. and around the world were available to everyone once a day.
During the day, passengers were offered “Excursion” trips.
Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some went for hikes in the local forests.
Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh bread for the guests.
Food was prepared by all the residents and brought to the schools. People were driven to restaurants of their choice and offered wonderful meals. Everyone was given tokens for local laundry mats to wash their clothes, since luggage was still on the aircraft.
In other words, every single need was met for those stranded travelers. Passengers were crying while telling us these stories. Finally, when they were told that U.S. airports had reopened, they were delivered to the airport right on time and without a single passenger missing or late. The local Red Cross had all the information about the whereabouts of each and every passenger and knew which plane they needed to be on and when all the planes were leaving. They coordinated everything beautifully. It was absolutely incredible.
When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise. Everyone knew each other by name. They were swapping stories of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time.
Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a chartered party flight. The crew just stayed out of their way. It was mind-boggling.
Passengers had totally bonded and were calling each other by their first names, exchanging phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses. And then a very unusual thing happened.
One of our passengers approached me and asked if he could make an announcement over the PA system. We never, ever allow that. But this time was different. I said “of course” and handed him the mike. He picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had just gone through in the last few days.
He reminded them of the hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers. He continued by saying that he would like to do something in return for the good folks of Lewisporte.
“He said he was going to set up a Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose of the trust fund is to provide college scholarships for the high school students of Lewisporte.
He asked for donations of any amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, the total was for more than $14,000!
“The gentleman, a MD from Virginia , promised to match the donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask them to donate as well.
As I write this account, the trust fund is at more than $1.5 million and has assisted 134 students in college education.
Pretty cool story, huh. It reminds us of how many helpful people there are in the world. The ones who aren't helpful just get a lot more press
1. so what would be the reasons the us government would orchestrate 9/11? or even lie about 9/11? making the war with iraq easier to sell? (2.but why afghanistan first? and what the hell is there to accomplish in the land of afghans) 3.missile shot down flight 93? 4.not a plane at the pentagon but a missile? and where is this missile coming from and what was it aiming at? 5."planted" explosives at wtc 7 and possibly the north and south towers?
not to speculate.... 1. I've already covered this, and the PNAC paper has come up as well....it openly indicates that people within the administration and the upper echelons of the business community (MIC) felt that in order for the US to maintain its hegemonic role as sole world superpower leading into the new century, it needed a 'new pearl harbor' to justify it's actions in the middle east. Zbig's Grand Chessboard covers the reasons it's important to dominate in the middle east and central asia: it contains the world's biggest reserves of energy resources, and the world's biggest population. 2. oil, natural gas, (pipelines in particular) heroin. In other words, a huge source of black ops funding for the CIA drug cartels, and control of central asia via control of resources. Throw Unocal, Taliban, and Dabhol - India into the google box. While you're at it, throw Enron and wtc 7 in there too.... 3. maybe? seems as likely as 'let's roll' to me. 4. missile seems more likely to me than a 757. the plane couldn't do what it's claimed to have done; fly in a bank at 500+mph at low altitude - air pressure at that altitude would have torn the wings off. Boeing reps have said so. Theorists speculate that a drone plane could have been made to look like a commercial jet. I know, I know....next question....where are the passengers? Watch the documentary I posted; I'm not typing out 5 hours worth of info even if I could remember all of it 5.doubtful but not impossible. lots of renos happening in the towers. structural engineers have commented that the core columns could have been rigged with explosives simply by having access to the elevator shafts - at least two of which were under repair. Upgrades to sprinkler systems were underway at the lower floors, upgrades to the internet wiring at others, 36 hour power downs in the days before 9/11 left security cameras unused for of the proceeding days, bomb-sniffing dogs were removed a week or two before the attacks, there were reports of elevator explosions in the tower that hadn't been hit yet that were excluded from the official report (by both WTC maintenance and fire fighters on scene), heightened security was lifted just before the attacks etc....and Marvin Bush was a principal of the company responsible for WTC, Dulles international, and United Airlines. From memory, and I'm not sure if any of that has been thoroughly debunked or not, but all worth thinking about, and to my knowledge, not addressed in any investigation.
Seriously, awesome rebuttal to my questions. Do i agree, no, but I reread your post close to a dozen times which means you really made me think. Can we go jfk assassination next?!
haha only if you let me consult DriftingByTheStorm before every response. I assume he's one of the loony's mentioned earlier - that guy has a wealth of knowledge that far surpasses mine, esp when it comes to JFK (he's pretty deadly on 9/11 knowledge as well). He either has an encyclopedic brain or a huge list of bookmarks divided by claim that allows him to access whatever answer he needs. Search the board to see if you can find his posts on JFK - fascinating stuff. (and thanks for the kudos )
Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?
These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think.... The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?
Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?
These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think.... The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?
1)We were going to war without a pentagon hit. 2)Do you really think we needed control of the heroin pipeline? That's a stretch. 3)Absolutely zero eyewitness accounts of a missile shooting down flight 93. Or another plane for that matter. 4)a plane hit the pentagon. There are about 100 more eye witnesses that saw the plane fly into that building rather than a missle. The flight 77 hijacker had the most flight experience than any of the other hijackers. Not that that is saying much, but he had logged many flight hours. It isn't out of the realm of possibly for him to fly that plane into the pentagon. 5)pure speculation.
why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?
1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet. 2. walmart 3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no? seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it
btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored? And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember
About 10:30 on the morning of the 12th a convoy of school buses showed up. We got off the plane and were taken to the terminal where we went through Immigration and Customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.
After that we (the crew) were separated from the passengers and were taken in vans to a small hotel.
We had no idea where our passengers were going. We learned from the Red Cross that the town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people and they had about 10,500 passengers to take care of from all the airplanes that were forced into Gander!
We were told to just relax at the hotel and we would be contacted when the US airports opened again, but not to expect that call for a while.
We found out the total scope of the terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV, 24 hours after it all started.
Meanwhile, we had lots of time on our hands and found that the people of Gander were extremely friendly. They started calling us the “plane people.” We enjoyed their hospitality, explored the town of Gander and ended up having a pretty good time. Two days later, we got that call and were taken back to the Gander airport. Back on the plane, we were reunited with the passengers and found out what they had been doing for the past two days. What we found out was incredible….. Gander and all the surrounding communities (within about a 75 Kilometer radius) had closed all high schools, meeting halls, lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these facilities to mass lodging areas for all the stranded travelers. Some had cots set up, some had mats with sleeping bags and pillows set up. ALL the high school students were required to volunteer their time to take care of the “guests.”
Our 218 passengers ended up in a town called Lewisporte, about 45 kilometers from Gander where they were put up in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women-only facility, that was arranged.
Families were kept together. All the elderly passengers were taken to private homes.
Remember that young pregnant lady? She was put up in a private home right across the street from a 24-hour Urgent Care facility. There was a dentist on call and both male and female nurses remained with the crowd for the duration.
Phone calls and e-mails to the U.S. and around the world were available to everyone once a day.
During the day, passengers were offered “Excursion” trips.
Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some went for hikes in the local forests.
Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh bread for the guests.
Food was prepared by all the residents and brought to the schools. People were driven to restaurants of their choice and offered wonderful meals. Everyone was given tokens for local laundry mats to wash their clothes, since luggage was still on the aircraft.
In other words, every single need was met for those stranded travelers. Passengers were crying while telling us these stories. Finally, when they were told that U.S. airports had reopened, they were delivered to the airport right on time and without a single passenger missing or late. The local Red Cross had all the information about the whereabouts of each and every passenger and knew which plane they needed to be on and when all the planes were leaving. They coordinated everything beautifully. It was absolutely incredible.
When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise. Everyone knew each other by name. They were swapping stories of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time.
Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a chartered party flight. The crew just stayed out of their way. It was mind-boggling.
Passengers had totally bonded and were calling each other by their first names, exchanging phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses. And then a very unusual thing happened.
One of our passengers approached me and asked if he could make an announcement over the PA system. We never, ever allow that. But this time was different. I said “of course” and handed him the mike. He picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had just gone through in the last few days.
He reminded them of the hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers. He continued by saying that he would like to do something in return for the good folks of Lewisporte.
“He said he was going to set up a Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose of the trust fund is to provide college scholarships for the high school students of Lewisporte.
He asked for donations of any amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, the total was for more than $14,000!
“The gentleman, a MD from Virginia , promised to match the donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask them to donate as well.
As I write this account, the trust fund is at more than $1.5 million and has assisted 134 students in college education.
Pretty cool story, huh. It reminds us of how many helpful people there are in the world. The ones who aren't helpful just get a lot more press
Thanks for posting this, Drowned Out. It helps to be reminded that most people do want to do the right thing, and will do it when an opportunity is offered (although some need a little help/encouragement).
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,881
Why do people keep inferring that I think 'the government was behind it'? I have never once said that....IF there was people in the know, or complicit, it was a handful of people on the inside, and a bunch more in the private sector who didn't know they were a part of it. Yes, there would be easier ways, but none that would sell the public on a 1.5 decade long (so far) campaign of aggression. To use a similar story - how long did people stay upset about the incubator baby fabrication prior to the Gulf War?
I don't think anyone was questioning your credibility drowned. You still ha e questions that you feel are unanswered, fine. I feel like many of the questions you're asking has been answered logically and you don't believe them. That's fine too.
I wonder if we'll ever really know the truth about all this. After 14 years, I'm not convinced we know all the facts. One of the thing that gives me some doubts about the conspiracy theories- was this statement from Gore Vidal:
“I’m not a conspiracy theorist—I’m a conspiracy analyst,” explained Vidal in 2007. “Everything the Bushites touch is screwed up. They could never have pulled off 9/11, even if they wanted to. Even if they longed to. They could step aside, though, or just go out to lunch while all these terrible things were happening to the nation. Yeah. I believe that of them.”
Funny to read this part of the quote....going back to the doc I posted, the entire chain of command that day was either new in their post, a temp, or unavailable. Where was the secretary of defense during the attacks? the documentary covers this...does anyone else here know? If the 'gone to lunch' approach is more plausible to some here....do you think this implies foreknowledge, or is it just coincidence and incompetence?
I've said it before and will again....the 'bush admin were a bunch of idiots' is a terrible way out of this. If you think Al Qaeda could orchestrate this attack, but the US MIC or intelligence apparatus or whomever couldn't, then I don't even know what to say. The most powerful nation on earth run by people who are totally inept at what they do best - acts of war.....ok?
I don't think it was so much a matter of "gone to lunch" as it was the more obvious "out to lunch".
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has. Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.
why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?
1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet. 2. walmart 3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no? seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it
btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored? And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember
I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.
Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has. Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.
This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.
why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?
1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet. 2. walmart 3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no? seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it
btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored? And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember
I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.
Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has. Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.
This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.
I'm not talking about 9/11 conspiracy, I am talking about the obvious link between heroin (not synthetic opioid) and the poppy fields of Afghanistan. We replaced Taliban warlords with heroin warlords and heroin in the US has risen sharply ever since.
why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?
1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet. 2. walmart 3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no? seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it
btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored? And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember
I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.
Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has. Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.
This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.
I'm not talking about 9/11 conspiracy, I am talking about the obvious link between heroin (not synthetic opioid) and the poppy fields of Afghanistan. We replaced Taliban warlords with heroin warlords and heroin in the US has risen sharply ever since.
It has been shown that the rise in heroin use is directly related to prescription opioids being harder to get and being very expensive. As well as the prevalence of low cost heroin coming in from Mexico.
why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?
1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet. 2. walmart 3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no? seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it
btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored? And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember
I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.
Last12, have you not seen an exponential increase in heroin problems in your area since the war in Afghanistan started? I know Ohio has. Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.
This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.
I'm not talking about 9/11 conspiracy, I am talking about the obvious link between heroin (not synthetic opioid) and the poppy fields of Afghanistan. We replaced Taliban warlords with heroin warlords and heroin in the US has risen sharply ever since.
It has been shown that the rise in heroin use is directly related to prescription opioids being harder to get and being very expensive. As well as the prevalence of low cost heroin coming in from Mexico.
They don't grow much poppy in Mexico. Opioid availability explains the demand, Afghanistan explains the supply.
Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?
These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think.... The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?
So all of the eyewitnesses that saw the plane fly into the Pentagon are plants? The plane debris was planted?
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Why are we splitting hairs over where the heroin comes from? It's an international market - this isn't just about the US. the Taliban virtually eliminated the crop. After the coalition went into Afghanistan and removed the Taliban, production skyrocketed to levels higher than pre-Taliban. There is evidence of CIA involvement in the trade throughout the years, and evidence of US soldiers guarding poppy fields in Afghanistan. The number I quoted earlier (40 bil since 2001) is extrapolated ground level price for the crop pre-processing. The retail market for that same crop is more than that annually - upwards of 50 billion. If we use that figure, we're talking 750 billion since 2001. The point is not to control the flow into the US, but to control the market, period. Afghanistan produces 70% of the world's poppy crops - why are we talking about Mexico? anyway....like I said...this is not the main reason for geopolitical interest in Afghanistan; that's control of pipeline routes (TAPI).http://www.globalresearch.ca/afghanistan-energy-geopolitics-and-the-tapi-pipeline/18329 . I've said this twice now, and both times Last 12 has come back with comments like 'the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade', ignoring the pipeline component of my posts despite being reminded after the first time it was said. Karzai's brother is a heroin kingpin. Karzai is CIA aligned. This has all been widely reported by credible media; even to some degree in the mainstream. If you guys took a few minutes to read into this instead of trying to make me look foolish, you might learn something.
I'm not trying to make you look foolish. Nor am I dismissing it. I disagree with your notion that Sept 11 had anything to do with the heroin trade. The increase in heroin use in the untied states is directly related to prescription pain killer addictions.
I'm sure the cia have their hands in the poppy pot, but the idea that we started a war with the Taliban to control poppy fields is not something I'm going to believe in. Throw all the production numbers you want up there, it means little more than people like heroin.
Is poppy seeds used to make Percocet, Lortabs, oxycontin, and other prescription drugs? I would be more in line with your argument if big pharm needed poppy to make their pain killers. But I still wouldn't think it has anything to do with 9/11.
Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?
These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think.... The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?
So all of the eyewitnesses that saw the plane fly into the Pentagon are plants? The plane debris was planted?
Exactly.No way to fake this shit.We can't figure out basic shit,but we are smart enough to pull of the worlds biggest charade,nah I don't think it's possible.
I've seen several of the truthers docs in regards to 9/11. Most of the questions they ask are not relevant to who, what, when, where, and why. To say that an airplane can't make the moves that flight 77 made doesn't make sense. How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked? Other hand than fly really fast and really low and into a building.
The w's are not up to 'truthers' to decide. Besides, the speculation is what leads to ridicule, and oftentimes these days, scorn or even threats...why subject myself to this when you guys are happy with what you've been told? Bin laden is dead, all is right in the world and we've all moved on, right? "How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked?" Well....from the flight data recording and eyewitness accounts. Are you just randomly throwing darts to poke holes in the claims? How can you say something doesn't make sense without looking into it at all? Without even talking about the plane's terminal velocity and the issues with the maneuverability at those speeds and altitudes, there are still huge issues with this info.....There were simulations done of the flight path following the release of the data. those simulations and eyewitness accounts contain a multitude of discrepancies in regards to flight path, damage, trajectory, and eyewitness accounts. One of the most referenced simulations was done by Purdue....it is analyzed in the doc I posted around 1:55:00. Also, look into the north approach and south approach discrepancies if you want to learn more. Most eyewitnesses said that the plane approached from the north of the citgo gas station....the light poles were downed on the south side, which is consistent with the official narrative. For example, the widely publicized photo of the cab that was struck by a falling light pole was not in the flight path in the data recordings. In an interview with those loser 'truthers', this cabby denied on camera that his cab was where it is shown in the pictures, because it DID contradict the flight path....but in off camera recordings admitted that he was indeed at the location that wasn't on the flight path, and that he was a plant...but he said that there was nothing he could do as a whistleblower because he couldn't prove anything 'big'. His wife worked for the fbi. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kvyQ0vVwjqc
Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?
These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think.... The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?
So all of the eyewitnesses that saw the plane fly into the Pentagon are plants? The plane debris was planted?
Maybe. Or maybe the consensus of the witness reports has been exaggerated or falsified? The pilots for truth org I mentioned has an analysis of all witness testimony in thier forums. Check it out if interested. Maybe a grand jury could find out the truth? An actual legal proceeding that could lead to perjury charges, instead of settling on an investigation that was admittedly (by 6 of 10 commissioners) hamstringed by the administration from the start? An investigation headed by someone with ties to the admin? An investigation the admin lobbied to quash from the start, and had 14 months to prepare for before it began?
Thanks for posting this, Drowned Out. It helps to be reminded that most people do want to do the right thing, and will do it when an opportunity is offered (although some need a little help/encouragement).
You're welcome, and yes I agree. There was def a beautiful flipside to the anger created by the attacks that day. Togetherness and faith in humanity.
I'm not trying to make you look foolish. Nor am I dismissing it. I disagree with your notion that Sept 11 had anything to do with the heroin trade. 1.The increase in heroin use in the untied states is directly related to prescription pain killer addictions.
I'm sure the cia have their hands in the poppy pot, but 2. the idea that we started a war with the Taliban to control poppy fields is not something I'm going to believe in. Throw all the production numbers you want up there, it means little more than people like heroin.
Is poppy seeds used to make Percocet, Lortabs, oxycontin, and other prescription drugs? I would be more in line with your argument if big pharm needed poppy to make their pain killers. But I still wouldn't think it has anything to do with 9/11.
1. again. Even if you were right about the increased use, the united states is not the only market for heroin. This statement does nothing to dispute my claims that control of the heroin market provides some motive for the war. 2. ok that's three times you've done this, and I've called you on it twice. IT WAS NOT THE SOLE MOTIVE. Got it? Like.....got it? One more time. It was not the sole motive. You still haven't said a word about the pipelines. sheesh.
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Can we go jfk assassination next?!
From a flight attendant on Delta Flight 15, written following 9-11:
On the morning of Tuesday, September 11, we were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt, flying over the North Atlantic.
All of a sudden the curtains parted and I was told to go to the cockpit, immediately, to see the captain.
As soon as I got there I noticed that the crew had that “All Business” look on their faces. The captain handed me a printed message. It was from Delta’s main office in Atlanta and simply read, “All airways over the Continental United States are closed to commercial air traffic. Land ASAP at the nearest airport. Advise your destination.”
No one said a word about what this could mean. We knew it was a serious situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. The captain determined that the nearest airport was 400 miles behind us in Gander, Newfoundland.
He requested approval for a route change from the Canadian traffic controller and approval was granted immediately — no questions asked. We found out later, of course, why there was no hesitation in approving our request.
While the flight crew prepared the airplane for landing, another message arrived from Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area. A few minutes later word came in about the hijackings.
We decided to LIE to the passengers while we were still in the air. We told them the plane had a simple instrument problem and that we needed to land at the nearest airport in Gander, Newfoundland, to have it checked out.
We promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There was much grumbling among the passengers, but that’s nothing new! Forty minutes later, we landed in Gander. Local time at Gander was 12:30 PM …. that’s 11:00 AM EST.
There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over the
world that had taken this detour on their way to the US.
After we parked on the ramp, the captain made the following announcement: “Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. The reality is that we are here for another reason.”
Then he went on to explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were loud gasps and stares of disbelief. The captain informed passengers that Ground control in Gander told us to stay put.
The Canadian Government was in charge of our situation and no one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on the ground was allowed to come near any of the air crafts. Only airport police would come around periodically, look us over and go on to the next airplane.
In the next hour or so more planes landed and Gander ended up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, 27 of which were US commercial jets.
Meanwhile, bits of news started to come in over the aircraft radio and for the first time we learned that airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center in New York and into the Pentagon in DC.
People were trying to use their cell phones, but were unable to connect due to a different cell system in Canada . Some did get through, but were only able to get to the Canadian operator who would tell them that the lines to the U.S. were either blocked or jammed.
Sometime in the evening the news filtered to us that the World Trade Center buildings had collapsed and that a fourth hijacking had resulted in a crash. By now the passengers were emotionally and physically exhausted, not to mention frightened, but everyone stayed amazingly calm.
We had only to look out the window at the 52 other stranded aircraft to realize that we were not the only ones in this predicament.
We had been told earlier that they would be allowing people off the planes one plane at a time. At 6 PM, Gander airport told us that our turn to deplane would be 11 am the next morning.
Passengers were not happy, but they simply resigned themselves to this news without much noise and started to prepare themselves to spend the night on the airplane.
Gander had promised us medical attention, if needed, water, and lavatory servicing.And they were true to their word.
Fortunately, we had no medical situations to worry about. We did have a young lady who was 33 weeks into her pregnancy. We took REALLY good care of her. The night passed without incident despite the uncomfortable sleeping arrangements.
About 10:30 on the morning of the 12th a convoy of school buses showed up. We got off the plane and were taken to the terminal where we went through Immigration and Customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.
After that we (the crew) were separated from the passengers and were taken in vans to a small hotel.
We had no idea where our passengers were going. We learned from the Red Cross that the town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people and they had about 10,500 passengers to take care of from all the airplanes that were forced into Gander!
We were told to just relax at the hotel and we would be contacted when the US airports opened again, but not to expect that call for a while.
We found out the total scope of the terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV, 24 hours after it all started.
Meanwhile, we had lots of time on our hands and found that the people of Gander were extremely friendly. They started calling us the “plane people.” We enjoyed their hospitality, explored the town of Gander and ended up having a pretty good time.
Two days later, we got that call and were taken back to the Gander airport. Back on the plane, we were reunited with the passengers and found out what they had been doing for the past two days.
What we found out was incredible…..
Gander and all the surrounding communities (within about a 75 Kilometer radius) had closed all high schools, meeting halls, lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these facilities to mass lodging areas for all the stranded travelers.
Some had cots set up, some had mats with sleeping bags and pillows set up.
ALL the high school students were required to volunteer their time to take care of the “guests.”
Our 218 passengers ended up in a town called Lewisporte, about 45 kilometers from Gander where they were put up in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women-only facility, that was arranged.
Families were kept together. All the elderly passengers were taken to private homes.
Remember that young pregnant lady? She was put up in a private home right across the street from a 24-hour Urgent Care facility. There was a dentist on call and both male and female nurses remained with the crowd for the duration.
Phone calls and e-mails to the U.S. and around the world were available to everyone once a day.
During the day, passengers were offered “Excursion” trips.
Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some went for hikes in the local forests.
Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh bread for the guests.
Food was prepared by all the residents and brought to the schools. People were driven to restaurants of their choice and offered wonderful meals. Everyone was given tokens for local laundry mats to wash their clothes, since luggage was still on the aircraft.
In other words, every single need was met for those stranded travelers.
Passengers were crying while telling us these stories. Finally, when they were told that U.S. airports had reopened, they were delivered to the airport right on time and without a single passenger missing or late. The local Red Cross had all the information about the whereabouts of each and every passenger and knew which plane they needed to be on and when all the planes were leaving. They coordinated everything beautifully.
It was absolutely incredible.
When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise. Everyone knew each other by name. They were swapping stories of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time.
Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a chartered party flight. The crew just stayed out of their way. It was mind-boggling.
Passengers had totally bonded and were calling each other by their first names, exchanging phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses.
And then a very unusual thing happened.
One of our passengers approached me and asked if he could make an announcement over the PA system. We never, ever allow that. But this time was different. I said “of course” and handed him the mike. He picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had just gone through in the last few days.
He reminded them of the hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers.
He continued by saying that he would like to do something in return for the good folks of Lewisporte.
“He said he was going to set up a Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose of the trust fund is to provide college scholarships for the high school students of Lewisporte.
He asked for donations of any amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, the total was for more than $14,000!
“The gentleman, a MD from Virginia , promised to match the donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask them to donate as well.
As I write this account, the trust fund is at more than $1.5 million and has assisted 134 students in college education.
Pretty cool story, huh. It reminds us of how many helpful people there are in the world. The ones who aren't helpful just get a lot more press
(and thanks for the kudos
The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?
2)Do you really think we needed control of the heroin pipeline? That's a stretch.
3)Absolutely zero eyewitness accounts of a missile shooting down flight 93. Or another plane for that matter.
4)a plane hit the pentagon. There are about 100 more eye witnesses that saw the plane fly into that building rather than a missle. The flight 77 hijacker had the most flight experience than any of the other hijackers. Not that that is saying much, but he had logged many flight hours. It isn't out of the realm of possibly for him to fly that plane into the pentagon.
5)pure speculation.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
2. walmart
3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no?
seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it
btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored?
And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember
Not making any conclusions, but the coincidence is fishy.
Godfather.
This can and has been attributed to the increase in prescription pain killers steadily rising over the past decade. It makes a lot more sense than the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
anyway....like I said...this is not the main reason for geopolitical interest in Afghanistan; that's control of pipeline routes (TAPI).http://www.globalresearch.ca/afghanistan-energy-geopolitics-and-the-tapi-pipeline/18329 . I've said this twice now, and both times Last 12 has come back with comments like 'the government crashing planes into the twin towers and the Pentagon just so we could go to war with Afghanistan and maintain the heroin trade', ignoring the pipeline component of my posts despite being reminded after the first time it was said. Karzai's brother is a heroin kingpin. Karzai is CIA aligned. This has all been widely reported by credible media; even to some degree in the mainstream. If you guys took a few minutes to read into this instead of trying to make me look foolish, you might learn something.
I'm sure the cia have their hands in the poppy pot, but the idea that we started a war with the Taliban to control poppy fields is not something I'm going to believe in. Throw all the production numbers you want up there, it means little more than people like heroin.
Is poppy seeds used to make Percocet, Lortabs, oxycontin, and other prescription drugs? I would be more in line with your argument if big pharm needed poppy to make their pain killers. But I still wouldn't think it has anything to do with 9/11.
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"How does anyone know what that plane did after it was hijacked?"
Well....from the flight data recording and eyewitness accounts. Are you just randomly throwing darts to poke holes in the claims? How can you say something doesn't make sense without looking into it at all? Without even talking about the plane's terminal velocity and the issues with the maneuverability at those speeds and altitudes, there are still huge issues with this info.....There were simulations done of the flight path following the release of the data. those simulations and eyewitness accounts contain a multitude of discrepancies in regards to flight path, damage, trajectory, and eyewitness accounts. One of the most referenced simulations was done by Purdue....it is analyzed in the doc I posted around 1:55:00. Also, look into the north approach and south approach discrepancies if you want to learn more. Most eyewitnesses said that the plane approached from the north of the citgo gas station....the light poles were downed on the south side, which is consistent with the official narrative.
For example, the widely publicized photo of the cab that was struck by a falling light pole was not in the flight path in the data recordings. In an interview with those loser 'truthers', this cabby denied on camera that his cab was where it is shown in the pictures, because it DID contradict the flight path....but in off camera recordings admitted that he was indeed at the location that wasn't on the flight path, and that he was a plant...but he said that there was nothing he could do as a whistleblower because he couldn't prove anything 'big'. His wife worked for the fbi. https://youtube.com/watch?v=kvyQ0vVwjqc Maybe. Or maybe the consensus of the witness reports has been exaggerated or falsified? The pilots for truth org I mentioned has an analysis of all witness testimony in thier forums. Check it out if interested. Maybe a grand jury could find out the truth? An actual legal proceeding that could lead to perjury charges, instead of settling on an investigation that was admittedly (by 6 of 10 commissioners) hamstringed by the administration from the start? An investigation headed by someone with ties to the admin? An investigation the admin lobbied to quash from the start, and had 14 months to prepare for before it began?
2. ok that's three times you've done this, and I've called you on it twice. IT WAS NOT THE SOLE MOTIVE. Got it? Like.....got it? One more time. It was not the sole motive. You still haven't said a word about the pipelines. sheesh.