Not even a mention of 9/11 !

mcgruff10

rr165892 said:

And for the record.I DO NOT feel there was ANY conspiracy whatsoever.

Except that is for what families planes were allowed to leave the U.S. after the no fly order.Thats sketchy.

you are referring to saudi arabia correct?

Drowned Out

Gern Blansten said:

Drowned Out said:

Why do people keep inferring that I think 'the government was behind it'? I have never once said that....IF there was people in the know, or complicit, it was a handful of people on the inside, and a bunch more in the private sector who didn't know they were a part of it.
Yes, there would be easier ways, but none that would sell the public on a 1.5 decade long (so far) campaign of aggression. To use a similar story - how long did people stay upset about the incubator baby fabrication prior to the Gulf War?

brianlux said:

Last-12-Exit said:

I don't think anyone was questioning your credibility drowned. You still ha e questions that you feel are unanswered, fine. I feel like many of the questions you're asking has been answered logically and you don't believe them. That's fine too.

I wonder if we'll ever really know the truth about all this. After 14 years, I'm not convinced we know all the facts. One of the thing that gives me some doubts about the conspiracy theories- was this statement from Gore Vidal:

“I’m not a conspiracy theorist—I’m a conspiracy analyst,” explained Vidal in 2007. “Everything the Bushites touch is screwed up. They could never have pulled off 9/11, even if they wanted to. Even if they longed to. They could step aside, though, or just go out to lunch while all these terrible things were happening to the nation. Yeah. I believe that of them.”

Funny to read this part of the quote....going back to the doc I posted, the entire chain of command that day was either new in their post, a temp, or unavailable.
Where was the secretary of defense during the attacks? the documentary covers this...does anyone else here know?
If the 'gone to lunch' approach is more plausible to some here....do you think this implies foreknowledge, or is it just coincidence and incompetence?

I've said it before and will again....the 'bush admin were a bunch of idiots' is a terrible way out of this. If you think Al Qaeda could orchestrate this attack, but the US MIC or intelligence apparatus or whomever couldn't, then I don't even know what to say. The most powerful nation on earth run by people who are totally inept at what they do best - acts of war.....ok?

I really don't understand your logic. Al Qaeda was behind it...all of the evidence points to that.

US MIC or intelligence apparatus was not behind it...no evidence points to that

Our military is completely capable of wiping out NYC...that has nothing to do with this.

I don't understand your logic either. I used AQ as a comparison, and I didnt' say the US MIC or intelligence apparatus were behind this - I said IF, and that it would be a handful of people. People say the US gov could not be behind the attacks because they're bumbling fools. Which seems to imply that AQ are evil masterminds with technology, intellect, and cunning far superior to the combined resources of the US military / intelligence community. That's illogical imo. It's also illogical to think that AQ managed to pull this off at the precise moment that America's defense was asleep at the wheel, with NO help from the inside. I don't rule out AQ playing a role in this, but remember where AQ came from in the first place, remember the Bin Laden family ties to the Bush family...(and yes rr, the flights out of the country)....again, I'm trying not to speculate and that is what you're pushing me to do here. I am not the guy who is going to solve this riddle. I want someone else to

gimmesometruth27

i stayed home friday night and watched "inside 9/11" on nat geo like i do every 9/11.

i don't know if it was the cough syrup i took for the cold i was getting or what, but i noticed that they were saying quotes from phone calls between the hijackers. there was a point where muhammad atta called one of the other pilot hijackers and left "a cryptic clue" telling him the date of the attack without actually saying a date. he said simply "two sticks, and a cake with stick down" meaning 11th of september. how the fuck would anybody know that that conversation took place unless there was a third person listening, or unless the phone was tapped?? and if the phone was tapped, why was it tapped? and why did this information not come out until years after the attacks?

things like that are mysterious to me. how can anybody tell things like that from private conversations after the people in the conversation were already dead?

Last-12-Exit

gimmesometruth27 said:

i stayed home friday night and watched "inside 9/11" on nat geo like i do every 9/11.

i don't know if it was the cough syrup i took for the cold i was getting or what, but i noticed that they were saying quotes from phone calls between the hijackers. there was a point where muhammad atta called one of the other pilot hijackers and left "a cryptic clue" telling him the date of the attack without actually saying a date. he said simply "two sticks, and a cake with stick down" meaning 11th of september. how the fuck would anybody know that that conversation took place unless there was a third person listening, or unless the phone was tapped?? and if the phone was tapped, why was it tapped? and why did this information not come out until years after the attacks?

things like that are mysterious to me. how can anybody tell things like that from private conversations after the people in the conversation were already dead?

The only explanation I have to this is pointed out in an earlier post. My guess is that Attas phone was tapped. But how many hundreds or thousands of phone calls were tapped and had to be translated? My guess is that it was translated after the fact and they put 2 and 2 together. Just like most of the information on that show you are referring to. I also watch that those shows, but I watch them more than once a year.

My wife gets mad at me for watching it all these years later. I'm drawn to those 2 shows in particular. I don't know why. But I still feel the same anger 14 years later. I just had my first child in march of 01 otherwise I would have enlisted on September 12. Instead, I joined the fire department.

gimmesometruth27

Last-12-Exit said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i stayed home friday night and watched "inside 9/11" on nat geo like i do every 9/11.

i don't know if it was the cough syrup i took for the cold i was getting or what, but i noticed that they were saying quotes from phone calls between the hijackers. there was a point where muhammad atta called one of the other pilot hijackers and left "a cryptic clue" telling him the date of the attack without actually saying a date. he said simply "two sticks, and a cake with stick down" meaning 11th of september. how the fuck would anybody know that that conversation took place unless there was a third person listening, or unless the phone was tapped?? and if the phone was tapped, why was it tapped? and why did this information not come out until years after the attacks?

things like that are mysterious to me. how can anybody tell things like that from private conversations after the people in the conversation were already dead?

The only explanation I have to this is pointed out in an earlier post. My guess is that Attas phone was tapped. But how many hundreds or thousands of phone calls were tapped and had to be translated? My guess is that it was translated after the fact and they put 2 and 2 together. Just like most of the information on that show you are referring to. I also watch that those shows, but I watch them more than once a year.

My wife gets mad at me for watching it all these years later. I'm drawn to those 2 shows in particular. I don't know why. But I still feel the same anger 14 years later. I just had my first child in march of 01 otherwise I would have enlisted on September 12. Instead, I joined the fire department.

i watch these two shows every time i can catch them on tv.

i think i am angrier now than i was then.

if atta's phone was tapped, why was it tapped and when did they tap it? if it was tapped, clearly he was on the radar.

Last-12-Exit

gimmesometruth27 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i stayed home friday night and watched "inside 9/11" on nat geo like i do every 9/11.

i don't know if it was the cough syrup i took for the cold i was getting or what, but i noticed that they were saying quotes from phone calls between the hijackers. there was a point where muhammad atta called one of the other pilot hijackers and left "a cryptic clue" telling him the date of the attack without actually saying a date. he said simply "two sticks, and a cake with stick down" meaning 11th of september. how the fuck would anybody know that that conversation took place unless there was a third person listening, or unless the phone was tapped?? and if the phone was tapped, why was it tapped? and why did this information not come out until years after the attacks?

things like that are mysterious to me. how can anybody tell things like that from private conversations after the people in the conversation were already dead?

The only explanation I have to this is pointed out in an earlier post. My guess is that Attas phone was tapped. But how many hundreds or thousands of phone calls were tapped and had to be translated? My guess is that it was translated after the fact and they put 2 and 2 together. Just like most of the information on that show you are referring to. I also watch that those shows, but I watch them more than once a year.

My wife gets mad at me for watching it all these years later. I'm drawn to those 2 shows in particular. I don't know why. But I still feel the same anger 14 years later. I just had my first child in march of 01 otherwise I would have enlisted on September 12. Instead, I joined the fire department.

i watch these two shows every time i can catch them on tv.

i think i am angrier now than i was then.

if atta's phone was tapped, why was it tapped and when did they tap it? if it was tapped, clearly he was on the radar.

Sure, but perhaps he wasn't on a no fly list by then. And like I said, how long did it take for that particular phone call to get to a translators desk? Those wire taps aren't being monitored 24/7.

Drowned Out

mcgruff10 said:

1. so what would be the reasons the us government would orchestrate 9/11? or even lie about 9/11?
making the war with iraq easier to sell? (2.but why afghanistan first? and what the hell is there to accomplish in the land of afghans)
3.missile shot down flight 93?
4.not a plane at the pentagon but a missile? and where is this missile coming from and what was it aiming at?
5."planted" explosives at wtc 7 and possibly the north and south towers?

not to speculate....
1. I've already covered this, and the PNAC paper has come up as well....it openly indicates that people within the administration and the upper echelons of the business community (MIC) felt that in order for the US to maintain its hegemonic role as sole world superpower leading into the new century, it needed a 'new pearl harbor' to justify it's actions in the middle east. Zbig's Grand Chessboard covers the reasons it's important to dominate in the middle east and central asia: it contains the world's biggest reserves of energy resources, and the world's biggest population.
2. oil, natural gas, (pipelines in particular) heroin. In other words, a huge source of black ops funding for the CIA drug cartels, and control of central asia via control of resources. Throw Unocal, Taliban, and Dabhol - India into the google box. While you're at it, throw Enron and wtc 7 in there too....
3. maybe? seems as likely as 'let's roll' to me.
4. missile seems more likely to me than a 757. the plane couldn't do what it's claimed to have done; fly in a bank at 500+mph at low altitude - air pressure at that altitude would have torn the wings off. Boeing reps have said so. Theorists speculate that a drone plane could have been made to look like a commercial jet. I know, I know....next question....where are the passengers? Watch the documentary I posted; I'm not typing out 5 hours worth of info even if I could remember all of it
5.doubtful but not impossible. lots of renos happening in the towers. structural engineers have commented that the core columns could have been rigged with explosives simply by having access to the elevator shafts - at least two of which were under repair. Upgrades to sprinkler systems were underway at the lower floors, upgrades to the internet wiring at others, 36 hour power downs in the days before 9/11 left security cameras unused for of the proceeding days, bomb-sniffing dogs were removed a week or two before the attacks, there were reports of elevator explosions in the tower that hadn't been hit yet that were excluded from the official report (by both WTC maintenance and fire fighters on scene), heightened security was lifted just before the attacks etc....and Marvin Bush was a principal of the company responsible for WTC, Dulles international, and United Airlines. From memory, and I'm not sure if any of that has been thoroughly debunked or not, but all worth thinking about, and to my knowledge, not addressed in any investigation.

HughFreakingDillon

Drowned Out said:

Why do people keep inferring that I think 'the government was behind it'? I have never once said that....IF there was people in the know, or complicit, it was a handful of people on the inside, and a bunch more in the private sector who didn't know they were a part of it

Is it possible they let it happen? Yes.

Is it possible they orchestrated it? Anything is possible, but in my opinion, no.

Amongst the Ani

We dropped the ball. We should have seen it coming but dropped the ball. I don't believe the government really knew what was going to happen. Bush's facial expressions when he was told kind of confirmed that. We just had a government of good old boys who missed it when it was right in front of them. One report said an attack was imminent. Another said planes might be used. A flight school reported they had students who didnt give two shits learning how to land. No one connected the dots. For that the government is partially responsible for what happened but that is all.

Drowned Out

HughFreakingDillon said:

Drowned Out said:

Why do people keep inferring that I think 'the government was behind it'? I have never once said that....IF there was people in the know, or complicit, it was a handful of people on the inside, and a bunch more in the private sector who didn't know they were a part of it

Is it possible they let it happen? Yes.

Is it possible they orchestrated it? Anything is possible, but in my opinion, no.

Sure...like you say, anything is possible. Also possible that they said 'oh that's your plan? Oh you want to do it August 16th? No, you'd be better off waiting for two sticks and a cake with stick down'....then did some things that made it possible to pull off with zero resistance (scheduling war games, and taking over control of air defense, for example). That would be the complicit side of it. Or....they could have orchestrated the whole thing in conjunction with them. Or orchestrated the whole thing and framed hijackers as patsies. Who fucking knows. I sure as hell don't. But neither does anyone else who claims to.

mcgruff10

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

1. so what would be the reasons the us government would orchestrate 9/11? or even lie about 9/11?
making the war with iraq easier to sell? (2.but why afghanistan first? and what the hell is there to accomplish in the land of afghans)
3.missile shot down flight 93?
4.not a plane at the pentagon but a missile? and where is this missile coming from and what was it aiming at?
5."planted" explosives at wtc 7 and possibly the north and south towers?

not to speculate....
1. I've already covered this, and the PNAC paper has come up as well....it openly indicates that people within the administration and the upper echelons of the business community (MIC) felt that in order for the US to maintain its hegemonic role as sole world superpower leading into the new century, it needed a 'new pearl harbor' to justify it's actions in the middle east. Zbig's Grand Chessboard covers the reasons it's important to dominate in the middle east and central asia: it contains the world's biggest reserves of energy resources, and the world's biggest population.
2. oil, natural gas, (pipelines in particular) heroin. In other words, a huge source of black ops funding for the CIA drug cartels, and control of central asia via control of resources. Throw Unocal, Taliban, and Dabhol - India into the google box. While you're at it, throw Enron and wtc 7 in there too....
3. maybe? seems as likely as 'let's roll' to me.
4. missile seems more likely to me than a 757. the plane couldn't do what it's claimed to have done; fly in a bank at 500+mph at low altitude - air pressure at that altitude would have torn the wings off. Boeing reps have said so. Theorists speculate that a drone plane could have been made to look like a commercial jet. I know, I know....next question....where are the passengers? Watch the documentary I posted; I'm not typing out 5 hours worth of info even if I could remember all of it
5.doubtful but not impossible. lots of renos happening in the towers. structural engineers have commented that the core columns could have been rigged with explosives simply by having access to the elevator shafts - at least two of which were under repair. Upgrades to sprinkler systems were underway at the lower floors, upgrades to the internet wiring at others, 36 hour power downs in the days before 9/11 left security cameras unused for of the proceeding days, bomb-sniffing dogs were removed a week or two before the attacks, there were reports of elevator explosions in the tower that hadn't been hit yet that were excluded from the official report (by both WTC maintenance and fire fighters on scene), heightened security was lifted just before the attacks etc....and Marvin Bush was a principal of the company responsible for WTC, Dulles international, and United Airlines. From memory, and I'm not sure if any of that has been thoroughly debunked or not, but all worth thinking about, and to my knowledge, not addressed in any investigation.

Seriously, awesome rebuttal to my questions. Do i agree, no, but I reread your post close to a dozen times which means you really made me think.
Can we go jfk assassination next?!

Drowned Out

On a more positive note...I see this posted on fb every year around this time. Always get something in my eye. I guess there's a book about it. Long but worth the read if you haven't seen it before.

From a flight attendant on Delta Flight 15, written following 9-11:

On the morning of Tuesday, September 11, we were about 5 hours out of Frankfurt, flying over the North Atlantic.

All of a sudden the curtains parted and I was told to go to the cockpit, immediately, to see the captain.

As soon as I got there I noticed that the crew had that “All Business” look on their faces. The captain handed me a printed message. It was from Delta’s main office in Atlanta and simply read, “All airways over the Continental United States are closed to commercial air traffic. Land ASAP at the nearest airport. Advise your destination.”

No one said a word about what this could mean. We knew it was a serious situation and we needed to find terra firma quickly. The captain determined that the nearest airport was 400 miles behind us in Gander, Newfoundland.
He requested approval for a route change from the Canadian traffic controller and approval was granted immediately — no questions asked. We found out later, of course, why there was no hesitation in approving our request.

While the flight crew prepared the airplane for landing, another message arrived from Atlanta telling us about some terrorist activity in the New York area. A few minutes later word came in about the hijackings.

We decided to LIE to the passengers while we were still in the air. We told them the plane had a simple instrument problem and that we needed to land at the nearest airport in Gander, Newfoundland, to have it checked out.
We promised to give more information after landing in Gander. There was much grumbling among the passengers, but that’s nothing new! Forty minutes later, we landed in Gander. Local time at Gander was 12:30 PM …. that’s 11:00 AM EST.

There were already about 20 other airplanes on the ground from all over the
world that had taken this detour on their way to the US.

After we parked on the ramp, the captain made the following announcement: “Ladies and gentlemen, you must be wondering if all these airplanes around us have the same instrument problem as we have. The reality is that we are here for another reason.”

Then he went on to explain the little bit we knew about the situation in the US. There were loud gasps and stares of disbelief. The captain informed passengers that Ground control in Gander told us to stay put.

The Canadian Government was in charge of our situation and no one was allowed to get off the aircraft. No one on the ground was allowed to come near any of the air crafts. Only airport police would come around periodically, look us over and go on to the next airplane.

In the next hour or so more planes landed and Gander ended up with 53 airplanes from all over the world, 27 of which were US commercial jets.
Meanwhile, bits of news started to come in over the aircraft radio and for the first time we learned that airplanes were flown into the World Trade Center in New York and into the Pentagon in DC.

People were trying to use their cell phones, but were unable to connect due to a different cell system in Canada . Some did get through, but were only able to get to the Canadian operator who would tell them that the lines to the U.S. were either blocked or jammed.

Sometime in the evening the news filtered to us that the World Trade Center buildings had collapsed and that a fourth hijacking had resulted in a crash. By now the passengers were emotionally and physically exhausted, not to mention frightened, but everyone stayed amazingly calm.
We had only to look out the window at the 52 other stranded aircraft to realize that we were not the only ones in this predicament.
We had been told earlier that they would be allowing people off the planes one plane at a time. At 6 PM, Gander airport told us that our turn to deplane would be 11 am the next morning.

Passengers were not happy, but they simply resigned themselves to this news without much noise and started to prepare themselves to spend the night on the airplane.

Gander had promised us medical attention, if needed, water, and lavatory servicing.And they were true to their word.

Fortunately, we had no medical situations to worry about. We did have a young lady who was 33 weeks into her pregnancy. We took REALLY good care of her. The night passed without incident despite the uncomfortable sleeping arrangements.

Drowned Out

continued:

About 10:30 on the morning of the 12th a convoy of school buses showed up. We got off the plane and were taken to the terminal where we went through Immigration and Customs and then had to register with the Red Cross.

After that we (the crew) were separated from the passengers and were taken in vans to a small hotel.

We had no idea where our passengers were going. We learned from the Red Cross that the town of Gander has a population of 10,400 people and they had about 10,500 passengers to take care of from all the airplanes that were forced into Gander!

We were told to just relax at the hotel and we would be contacted when the US airports opened again, but not to expect that call for a while.

We found out the total scope of the terror back home only after getting to our hotel and turning on the TV, 24 hours after it all started.

Meanwhile, we had lots of time on our hands and found that the people of Gander were extremely friendly. They started calling us the “plane people.” We enjoyed their hospitality, explored the town of Gander and ended up having a pretty good time.
Two days later, we got that call and were taken back to the Gander airport. Back on the plane, we were reunited with the passengers and found out what they had been doing for the past two days.
What we found out was incredible…..
Gander and all the surrounding communities (within about a 75 Kilometer radius) had closed all high schools, meeting halls, lodges, and any other large gathering places. They converted all these facilities to mass lodging areas for all the stranded travelers.
Some had cots set up, some had mats with sleeping bags and pillows set up.
ALL the high school students were required to volunteer their time to take care of the “guests.”

Our 218 passengers ended up in a town called Lewisporte, about 45 kilometers from Gander where they were put up in a high school. If any women wanted to be in a women-only facility, that was arranged.

Families were kept together. All the elderly passengers were taken to private homes.

Remember that young pregnant lady? She was put up in a private home right across the street from a 24-hour Urgent Care facility. There was a dentist on call and both male and female nurses remained with the crowd for the duration.

Phone calls and e-mails to the U.S. and around the world were available to everyone once a day.

During the day, passengers were offered “Excursion” trips.

Some people went on boat cruises of the lakes and harbors. Some went for hikes in the local forests.

Local bakeries stayed open to make fresh bread for the guests.

Food was prepared by all the residents and brought to the schools. People were driven to restaurants of their choice and offered wonderful meals. Everyone was given tokens for local laundry mats to wash their clothes, since luggage was still on the aircraft.

In other words, every single need was met for those stranded travelers.
Passengers were crying while telling us these stories. Finally, when they were told that U.S. airports had reopened, they were delivered to the airport right on time and without a single passenger missing or late. The local Red Cross had all the information about the whereabouts of each and every passenger and knew which plane they needed to be on and when all the planes were leaving. They coordinated everything beautifully.
It was absolutely incredible.

When passengers came on board, it was like they had been on a cruise. Everyone knew each other by name. They were swapping stories of their stay, impressing each other with who had the better time.

Our flight back to Atlanta looked like a chartered party flight. The crew just stayed out of their way. It was mind-boggling.

Passengers had totally bonded and were calling each other by their first names, exchanging phone numbers, addresses, and email addresses.
And then a very unusual thing happened.

One of our passengers approached me and asked if he could make an announcement over the PA system. We never, ever allow that. But this time was different. I said “of course” and handed him the mike. He picked up the PA and reminded everyone about what they had just gone through in the last few days.

He reminded them of the hospitality they had received at the hands of total strangers.
He continued by saying that he would like to do something in return for the good folks of Lewisporte.

“He said he was going to set up a Trust Fund under the name of DELTA 15 (our flight number). The purpose of the trust fund is to provide college scholarships for the high school students of Lewisporte.

He asked for donations of any amount from his fellow travelers. When the paper with donations got back to us with the amounts, names, phone numbers and addresses, the total was for more than $14,000!

“The gentleman, a MD from Virginia , promised to match the donations and to start the administrative work on the scholarship. He also said that he would forward this proposal to Delta Corporate and ask them to donate as well.

As I write this account, the trust fund is at more than $1.5 million and has assisted 134 students in college education.

Pretty cool story, huh. It reminds us of how many helpful people there are in the world. The ones who aren't helpful just get a lot more press

mcgruff10

Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?

Drowned Out

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

1. so what would be the reasons the us government would orchestrate 9/11? or even lie about 9/11?
making the war with iraq easier to sell? (2.but why afghanistan first? and what the hell is there to accomplish in the land of afghans)
3.missile shot down flight 93?
4.not a plane at the pentagon but a missile? and where is this missile coming from and what was it aiming at?
5."planted" explosives at wtc 7 and possibly the north and south towers?

not to speculate....
1. I've already covered this, and the PNAC paper has come up as well....it openly indicates that people within the administration and the upper echelons of the business community (MIC) felt that in order for the US to maintain its hegemonic role as sole world superpower leading into the new century, it needed a 'new pearl harbor' to justify it's actions in the middle east. Zbig's Grand Chessboard covers the reasons it's important to dominate in the middle east and central asia: it contains the world's biggest reserves of energy resources, and the world's biggest population.
2. oil, natural gas, (pipelines in particular) heroin. In other words, a huge source of black ops funding for the CIA drug cartels, and control of central asia via control of resources. Throw Unocal, Taliban, and Dabhol - India into the google box. While you're at it, throw Enron and wtc 7 in there too....
3. maybe? seems as likely as 'let's roll' to me.
4. missile seems more likely to me than a 757. the plane couldn't do what it's claimed to have done; fly in a bank at 500+mph at low altitude - air pressure at that altitude would have torn the wings off. Boeing reps have said so. Theorists speculate that a drone plane could have been made to look like a commercial jet. I know, I know....next question....where are the passengers? Watch the documentary I posted; I'm not typing out 5 hours worth of info even if I could remember all of it
5.doubtful but not impossible. lots of renos happening in the towers. structural engineers have commented that the core columns could have been rigged with explosives simply by having access to the elevator shafts - at least two of which were under repair. Upgrades to sprinkler systems were underway at the lower floors, upgrades to the internet wiring at others, 36 hour power downs in the days before 9/11 left security cameras unused for of the proceeding days, bomb-sniffing dogs were removed a week or two before the attacks, there were reports of elevator explosions in the tower that hadn't been hit yet that were excluded from the official report (by both WTC maintenance and fire fighters on scene), heightened security was lifted just before the attacks etc....and Marvin Bush was a principal of the company responsible for WTC, Dulles international, and United Airlines. From memory, and I'm not sure if any of that has been thoroughly debunked or not, but all worth thinking about, and to my knowledge, not addressed in any investigation.

Seriously, awesome rebuttal to my questions. Do i agree, no, but I reread your post close to a dozen times which means you really made me think.
Can we go jfk assassination next?!

haha only if you let me consult DriftingByTheStorm before every response. I assume he's one of the loony's mentioned earlier - that guy has a wealth of knowledge that far surpasses mine, esp when it comes to JFK (he's pretty deadly on 9/11 knowledge as well). He either has an encyclopedic brain or a huge list of bookmarks divided by claim that allows him to access whatever answer he needs. Search the board to see if you can find his posts on JFK - fascinating stuff.
(and thanks for the kudos )

Drowned Out

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?

These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think....
The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?

mcgruff10

why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?

Last-12-Exit

Drowned Out said:

mcgruff10 said:

Drowned out you didn't answer one question , if a missile hit the pentagon why was it fired, what was its target and where did it come from?

These aren't my theories, I'm only relaying what some people think....
The most plausible theory is that it was a drone, not a missile. It's target was the Pentagon, but without intent to kill anyone important or destroy the building enough to render it inoperable. Otherwise it wouldn't have hit the emptiest part of the building, the part that had been reinforced to be bomb-proof. Tell me....when you heard a plane hit THE FUCKING PENTAGON....was that not the exact moment you knew 100% for sure that we were going to war? I mean...we were all sure it was terrorists after the second WTC tower was hit....but after that? Personally, that's when I got really really extra freaked out, wondering what else was going to happen....and I turned to my boss and said 'looks like we're going back to Iraq'....because everyone knew BEFORE 9/11 that jr was going to find a way to do that, right?

1)We were going to war without a pentagon hit.
2)Do you really think we needed control of the heroin pipeline? That's a stretch.
3)Absolutely zero eyewitness accounts of a missile shooting down flight 93. Or another plane for that matter.
4)a plane hit the pentagon. There are about 100 more eye witnesses that saw the plane fly into that building rather than a missle. The flight 77 hijacker had the most flight experience than any of the other hijackers. Not that that is saying much, but he had logged many flight hours. It isn't out of the realm of possibly for him to fly that plane into the pentagon.
5)pure speculation.

gimmesometruth27

we were going to war in iraq the minute bush swore his oath.

Drowned Out

mcgruff10 said:

why a drone? and who's drone? where did it come from? what about all the eye witnesses that saw a plane circle the capitol then hit the pentagon?

1. because they hadn't put cameras on them and made them available to everyone yet.
2. walmart
3. painted drone? what about the witnesses who said unequivocally that it was a small passenger plane - like a corporate jet. Pretty big mistake to make there, no?
seriously tho, I don't know all of the answers and I'm taking a step down from the stand right now. I've got shit to do. I told you guys I'm relaying info and don't want to speculate and you keep asking me to do just that - which makes me try to recall or search for more info...something that is pretty much impossible to do without finding a debunked theory of a debunked official story related to another debunked theory that contradicted another official claim...and now Last-12 is calling me out for it

btw Last 12 - that heroin pipeline has produced about 40 billion since 9/11. No incentive there, right? Not even as a byproduct of the pipeline war you conveniently ignored?
And again....many flight hours doesn't make a plane do what it isn't designed to do. Maybe that is up for debate, but the doc I posted contains an interview with a boeing rep laughing at the question (which wasn't framed as related to 9/11). And the hours he had were in small planes. They allegedly had manuals for 757's but had never even flown a simulator for one, only for a 737 which has a totally different cockpit and controls. His instructors had called him a horrible pilot who couldnt' speak english earlier in his aviation career. He was allegedly denied a cessna rental in August 2001 because of his skills. Aviation folks doubted his licenses were even legit. But hey...you can keep presenting the official side you don't wholly agree with, and I can keep presenting the opposing views I don't completely remember