As long as those folks get their licenses and she doesnt have to have a part in it, I dont really care what she believes .
Much more was made of this than need be.
disagree. with any human rights issue, someone, especially a federal employee, refusing someone those rights, needs to be outed and shamed. she feels vindicated right now with that disgusting speech and crying and all that televangelist garbage she was doing, but she will, as brian mentioned, eventually be forgotten.
like all the assholes back in the day trying to prevent africans from using the same waterfountains and washrooms and sit at the front of the bus. all forgotten. all shamed. all a complete disgrace.
but not before late night tv rips her to shreds. things like this make me really miss Letterman and especially Stewart.
I agree. It's a big deal IMO. People who are running for President have inserted themselves into the conversation on the side of refusing rights to people. That is a HUGE deal. I think we need to maybe stop talking about this one idiot yokel and start talking about politicians (and not just the morons who showed up at this gross woman's little rally) who are in favour of what she's doing. That's the real story (along with the fact that the court did the absolute right thing in this case).
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
These fuckin christians gets so pissed off when they are called a bigot. My stupid fucking sister in law called my wife crying the other day after I responded one of her ignorant pro davis memes with "davis and her followers are bigots." She lives in KY near this county. She replied with "do you think I'm a bigot scott?" She actually thought that just because I'm her brother in law I wouldn't say, "do you think gay couples do not deserve the same rights you are afforded? If so, yes, you're a bigot."
I don't care what your god says. Nobody knows what Jesus said. If you think gays don't deserve the same rights you get, then you are a bigot.
I had this same discussion with my brother, his wife, and their teenage son. my brother cried foul that just because of his beliefs, he gets demonized. he actually is saying that christianity is constantly on the defensive, always being attacked, and if he defends himself, he is called names and given labels.
if the shoe fits.......
I told them all to their face, in their home, that I consider anti-homosexual sentiment to be that of a bigoted mind. luckily, he is mature enough of an individual to not let it be the end of our relationship. I'm sure he prays for my hell-bound soul often.
No he knows you are right just doesn't have the balls to release his security blanket. During turkey day I thank Mother Earth for putting us on top of food chain after my sisters rambling prayer. They know how I feel. All good. Just want to make sure my nieces and nephews get alternate view point.
These fuckin christians gets so pissed off when they are called a bigot. My stupid fucking sister in law called my wife crying the other day after I responded one of her ignorant pro davis memes with "davis and her followers are bigots." She lives in KY near this county. She replied with "do you think I'm a bigot scott?" She actually thought that just because I'm her brother in law I wouldn't say, "do you think gay couples do not deserve the same rights you are afforded? If so, yes, you're a bigot."
I don't care what your god says. Nobody knows what Jesus said. If you think gays don't deserve the same rights you get, then you are a bigot.
I had this same discussion with my brother, his wife, and their teenage son. my brother cried foul that just because of his beliefs, he gets demonized. he actually is saying that christianity is constantly on the defensive, always being attacked, and if he defends himself, he is called names and given labels.
if the shoe fits.......
I told them all to their face, in their home, that I consider anti-homosexual sentiment to be that of a bigoted mind. luckily, he is mature enough of an individual to not let it be the end of our relationship. I'm sure he prays for my hell-bound soul often.
No he knows you are right just doesn't have the balls to release his security blanket. During turkey day I thank Mother Earth for putting us on top of food chain after my sisters rambling prayer. They know how I feel. All good. Just want to make sure my nieces and nephews get alternate view point.
I allow my wife to inject religion into my kids lives. But my oldest, who is 14, I've started to have real discussions with her about religion. I haven't yet come out and told her I don't believe in god. But she is asking questions. The same questions I asked at 17 and 18. The same questions that could not be answered that led me to believe religion is ALL man made.
So, I agree that too many people force religion down the throats of children and they don't allow any room for any other view points. If my daughter ultimately chooses to believe in god and be religious, I'm ok with that. I know I have given her a different theory to choose from.
I'm not trying to derail this thread, I swear. I posted earlier about how I think religion is nobody's business but your own. I was raised Methodist, it got a little Jesus-freaky for me, I flirted with Catholicism, too not-female friendly for me, met my husband, became Episcopalian and really like it. We go to a very progressive church in LA with a gay rector, many gay families, many straight families. Our children were raised in this church and we always told them, reject it later if you want, but we want you to see what it's like. Our daughter is adopted from India, her parents were most likely Hindu and we've told her - explore your Hindu side if you'd like. My son still goes to church. He likes it. But if my kids decide one day they're atheists, that's fine. Who am I to tell them what to believe in?
Anyway, I don't like people mixing religion and politics.
But if my kids decide one day they're atheists, that's fine. Who am I to tell them what to believe in?
What if they take it a step further and simply state they are of no religion. There is a difference.
Not really. I have been called an atheist, devil worshiper, and a heathen. Either way, I don't believe in any super natural force out there. I don't believe in any form of life after death, whether it be your soul going to heaven or hell or reincarnation.
I'm not trying to derail this thread, I swear. I posted earlier about how I think religion is nobody's business but your own. I was raised Methodist, it got a little Jesus-freaky for me, I flirted with Catholicism, too not-female friendly for me, met my husband, became Episcopalian and really like it. We go to a very progressive church in LA with a gay rector, many gay families, many straight families. Our children were raised in this church and we always told them, reject it later if you want, but we want you to see what it's like. Our daughter is adopted from India, her parents were most likely Hindu and we've told her - explore your Hindu side if you'd like. My son still goes to church. He likes it. But if my kids decide one day they're atheists, that's fine. Who am I to tell them what to believe in?
Anyway, I don't like people mixing religion and politics.
Exactly! And that is why this thing is so out of hand. The two don't mix. What I don't get is why some people insist on pushing their beliefs on others. I have my thoughts on God, religion, spirituality and so forth. Everybody has their own.
Speaking of, I might have mentioned running into Tom Hayden in the CA State Capitol last week and promptly made a fool of myself twlling how great I think he is. But any way, he wrote this wonderful book called The Lost Gospel of the Earth. Publishers Weekly summarized it well thus:
"In a beautifully argued and well-written book, California state senator Tom Hayden argues that that Christian pastors must rediscover what he calls the "lost Gospel of the Earth" and rouse their congregations to environmentalist political action. Unless they do so, he contends, our governing bodies will never face up to the environmental challenges wrought by burgeoning population and what he calls a "dominion theology." Hayden's book is a call to political action of the sort that marked the civil rights movement, a political action that began in the churches. This is a clearheaded manifesto from a savvy politician who understands what it will take to oppose what he believes to be a rip tide of right-wing millennialist theology that has reconstructed Christian tradition to justify continued plundering of the planet in the name of Christ. Hayden's timely book is a dramatically argued eco-spiritual manifesto designed to reanimate the ecological wisdom of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and Native traditions and bring it into the political sphere."
I think if more people with spiritual interest would read this there would but a lot less antagonizing about one's faith toward another.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
But if my kids decide one day they're atheists, that's fine. Who am I to tell them what to believe in?
What if they take it a step further and simply state they are of no religion. There is a difference.
Not really. I have been called an atheist, devil worshiper, and a heathen. Either way, I don't believe in any super natural force out there. I don't believe in any form of life after death, whether it be your soul going to heaven or hell or reincarnation.
In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.
But if my kids decide one day they're atheists, that's fine. Who am I to tell them what to believe in?
What if they take it a step further and simply state they are of no religion. There is a difference.
Not really. I have been called an atheist, devil worshiper, and a heathen. Either way, I don't believe in any super natural force out there. I don't believe in any form of life after death, whether it be your soul going to heaven or hell or reincarnation.
But if my kids decide one day they're atheists, that's fine. Who am I to tell them what to believe in?
What if they take it a step further and simply state they are of no religion. There is a difference.
I would be fine. I want my children to be happy.
I guess I would be disappointed if they became members of the Westboro Baptist Church.
That's the most important thing, and also exposing them to other options. Sounds like you and Last-12 and others are doing just that.
As to the term of atheist, I get what someone means when they say that's their stance. I take no more issue with that than I've received when calling myself agnostic.
Why would you subject children to something that you openly, firmly and stoically reject as an adult?
Why would you care about how he chooses to raise his kids? I'm sure he's gonna let them make their own choices. Not like he's shoving the "no god movement down her throat" like some people in here.
Why would you subject children to something that you openly, firmly and stoically reject as an adult?
Why would you care about how he chooses to raise his kids? I'm sure he's gonna let them make their own choices. Not like he's shoving the "no god movement down her throat" like some people in here.
That's true. We all certainly know his views about god though.
Years ago I worked for a family and they had 3 kids, like 8 and under, and I said something about Moses and they said, "Who?" And I thought that was sad. And I knew one day I wanted my kids to be raised with something. With knowledge, even if it's the bible as history. My kids went to (mostly) small private schools that weren't religious, but had an emphasis on values. Honesty, truth, etc.
I would HATE for my children to grow up to be mini-me's.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Years ago I worked for a family and they had 3 kids, like 8 and under, and I said something about Moses and they said, "Who?" And I thought that was sad. And I knew one day I wanted my kids to be raised with something. With knowledge, even if it's the bible as history. My kids went to (mostly) small private schools that weren't religious, but had an emphasis on values. Honesty, truth, etc.
I would HATE for my children to grow up to be mini-me's.
I would rather my child recognize Pan, Echo, Beowulf and Grendal, Sir Gawain, Aragorn and Frodo, Antonio and Shylock etc than just Moses and Noah like most kids.
As long as those folks get their licenses and she doesnt have to have a part in it, I dont really care what she believes .
Much more was made of this than need be.
disagree. with any human rights issue, someone, especially a federal employee, refusing someone those rights, needs to be outed and shamed. she feels vindicated right now with that disgusting speech and crying and all that televangelist garbage she was doing, but she will, as brian mentioned, eventually be forgotten.
like all the assholes back in the day trying to prevent africans from using the same waterfountains and washrooms and sit at the front of the bus. all forgotten. all shamed. all a complete disgrace.
but not before late night tv rips her to shreds. things like this make me really miss Letterman and especially Stewart.
Just a correction. She is a local official. County level. Under the law she does have standing. Both within State and Fedral statute.
The Ky legislature seemingly failed in this instance to amend the law requiring clerk name on a document such as that one. SHE did push this though when the compromise was first offered last week and she refused. I am certain her Attorneys suggested she go for a few days. Pushing a larger agenda.
While I agree the attitude or belief isnt right , this country affords any belief you wish. So be it.
This really should have been handled in State court to begin with.
I intend on searching the timeline of events and who did what when. This law firm "Liberty Counsel" is headed by a former professor or dean of the Liberty University Law School. Mark my words there will be more like this to come. Seeking to re-litigate marriagr equality(wont work) to see just how far they can go in pushing for an expansion of the exempted.
Agree with the calling out. Not so much with the shaming. Serves no purpose. Not a good one anyway.
Let me clarify: I did not mean shaming in the context of attacking her appearance. I was only referring to her views and the ridiculousness of that speech.
As long as those folks get their licenses and she doesnt have to have a part in it, I dont really care what she believes .
Much more was made of this than need be.
disagree. with any human rights issue, someone, especially a federal employee, refusing someone those rights, needs to be outed and shamed. she feels vindicated right now with that disgusting speech and crying and all that televangelist garbage she was doing, but she will, as brian mentioned, eventually be forgotten.
like all the assholes back in the day trying to prevent africans from using the same waterfountains and washrooms and sit at the front of the bus. all forgotten. all shamed. all a complete disgrace.
but not before late night tv rips her to shreds. things like this make me really miss Letterman and especially Stewart.
Just a correction. She is a local official. County level. Under the law she does have standing. Both within State and Fedral statute.
The Ky legislature seemingly failed in this instance to amend the law requiring clerk name on a document such as that one. SHE did push this though when the compromise was first offered last week and she refused. I am certain her Attorneys suggested she go for a few days. Pushing a larger agenda.
While I agree the attitude or belief isnt right , this country affords any belief you wish. So be it.
This really should have been handled in State court to begin with.
I intend on searching the timeline of events and who did what when. This law firm "Liberty Counsel" is headed by a former professor or dean of the Liberty University Law School. Mark my words there will be more like this to come. Seeking to re-litigate marriagr equality(wont work) to see just how far they can go in pushing for an expansion of the exempted.
Agree with the calling out. Not so much with the shaming. Serves no purpose. Not a good one anyway.
Local, federal, to me it makes no difference. She is there to serve the people by the law set forth in the country. She refusd her duty. She should have been fired, not jailed.
As long as those folks get their licenses and she doesnt have to have a part in it, I dont really care what she believes .
Much more was made of this than need be.
disagree. with any human rights issue, someone, especially a federal employee, refusing someone those rights, needs to be outed and shamed. she feels vindicated right now with that disgusting speech and crying and all that televangelist garbage she was doing, but she will, as brian mentioned, eventually be forgotten.
like all the assholes back in the day trying to prevent africans from using the same waterfountains and washrooms and sit at the front of the bus. all forgotten. all shamed. all a complete disgrace.
but not before late night tv rips her to shreds. things like this make me really miss Letterman and especially Stewart.
Just a correction. She is a local official. County level. Under the law she does have standing. Both within State and Fedral statute.
The Ky legislature seemingly failed in this instance to amend the law requiring clerk name on a document such as that one. SHE did push this though when the compromise was first offered last week and she refused. I am certain her Attorneys suggested she go for a few days. Pushing a larger agenda.
While I agree the attitude or belief isnt right , this country affords any belief you wish. So be it.
This really should have been handled in State court to begin with.
I intend on searching the timeline of events and who did what when. This law firm "Liberty Counsel" is headed by a former professor or dean of the Liberty University Law School. Mark my words there will be more like this to come. Seeking to re-litigate marriagr equality(wont work) to see just how far they can go in pushing for an expansion of the exempted.
Agree with the calling out. Not so much with the shaming. Serves no purpose. Not a good one anyway.
Local, federal, to me it makes no difference. She is there to serve the people by the law set forth in the country. She refusd her duty. She should have been fired, not jailed.
As I understand it removal would require an act of the legislature or recall election. Ky legislature doesnt meet in session again til Jan.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Comments
So, I agree that too many people force religion down the throats of children and they don't allow any room for any other view points. If my daughter ultimately chooses to believe in god and be religious, I'm ok with that. I know I have given her a different theory to choose from.
you sure as fuck do not see anybody rationalizing hatred speaking out against it, do you?
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Anyway, I don't like people mixing religion and politics.
There is a difference.
Speaking of, I might have mentioned running into Tom Hayden in the CA State Capitol last week and promptly made a fool of myself twlling how great I think he is. But any way, he wrote this wonderful book called The Lost Gospel of the Earth. Publishers Weekly summarized it well thus:
"In a beautifully argued and well-written book, California state senator Tom Hayden argues that that Christian pastors must rediscover what he calls the "lost Gospel of the Earth" and rouse their congregations to environmentalist political action. Unless they do so, he contends, our governing bodies will never face up to the environmental challenges wrought by burgeoning population and what he calls a "dominion theology." Hayden's book is a call to political action of the sort that marked the civil rights movement, a political action that began in the churches. This is a clearheaded manifesto from a savvy politician who understands what it will take to oppose what he believes to be a rip tide of right-wing millennialist theology that has reconstructed Christian tradition to justify continued plundering of the planet in the name of Christ. Hayden's timely book is a dramatically argued eco-spiritual manifesto designed to reanimate the ecological wisdom of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and Native traditions and bring it into the political sphere."
I think if more people with spiritual interest would read this there would but a lot less antagonizing about one's faith toward another.
In fact, "atheism" is a term that should not even exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist". We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.
I guess I would be disappointed if they became members of the Westboro Baptist Church.
As to the term of atheist, I get what someone means when they say that's their stance. I take no more issue with that than I've received when calling myself agnostic.
We all certainly know his views about god though.
Most good parents aren't looking to raise mini-me's.
But children for the most part become a product of the environment raised.
I don't want to find out their answer. (They are both still alive)
I would HATE for my children to grow up to be mini-me's.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/9/10/states-that-fought-same-sex-marriage-charged-millions-in-attorney-fees.html
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
http://nbc.com.co/survivor-files-1-2-million-lawsuit-against-kim-davis-mike-huckabee/
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14