What the hell happen in Virginia??

Godfather.

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

josevolution

Just give me one way to keep the weapons from the lunatics and prevent mass murders , that's what I want the mass murders to stop where one or more innocent humans get killed ...tell me how that can be prevented

PJ_Soul

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

GF, seriously, you don't seem to know how to consider the numbers in the that article.
The main factor missing altogether is who bought the guns vs who is committing the gun related crimes (as opposed to just talking "violent crime", which isn't just gun violence). Without that stat, the info is basically useless.

callen

If there were no guns there would be no gun deaths. There's a fact.

mcgruff10

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

Godfather.

mcgruff10 said:

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

great articles too ! thanks for posting those articles, they sure put the skids on this debate LOL !!!!!

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

Can't recall them specifically (though I think most here do honestly read and consider such articles and only discount them if there is a reason to do so), but just wondering what the end game is for you guys? I.e. Assuming you are willing to admit there is a really bad gun violence problem in the USA, what do you think needs to be done to dramatically reduce it, if not better gun regulation and fewer guns? Sorry if you've said before, but I don't recall ever seeing a real solution suggested by either one of you. Are your ideas rooted in somehow adjusting the criminal justice system? If so, do you have stats on first time offenders who hurt or kill using guns? Would also like to know about your ideas regarding accidental gun deaths connected to both responsible and irresponsible gun owners.

Last-12-Exit

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

So you're saying the number of violent crimes have dropped because of more guns?

i'm not saying it s the only factor but it could be a part of the equation.
i think carry permits in chicago definitely helped deter crime.

however no matter what you say it totally kills your argument that more guns equals more crime.

It only kills the argument if the data reveals that the number of gun increasing is directly related to crime going down. Which it clearly does not. But keep googling, you might find an article that does from the NRA that does.

JUST A GIRL

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JUST A GIRL said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Again, no gun in the history of man, has ever been made to defend your home. The intruder doesn't know what you're packing. Basically what you're asking is which gun is more effective at killing quicker. Which is the ak-47, unless you're a marksman and can do a dude between the eyes with a .22

well they make weapons with the specific objective to defend your home. they have shotguns made for hunting and shotguns made specifically for home defense. same with rifles...same with hand guns.
and i bought my 9mm to defend my home...not hunt. so i guess I changed history. sweet!

Nope. They are all designed for killing things.

dude you can't just spew out stuff like "no gun history was made for self defence" that's just crazy talk.

Godfather.

'Gun history' is definitely a factor for preparing one's self for defence against guns. If you didn't know what a gun was... you might just walk up to it and peer down the barrel to see what's inside it.

I think I saw that once on YouTube.

"I reckon I dun went an looked down that there barrel."

That's racist

Yah. I'm a hillbillyphobe.

Do you deliberately act this way or is it your true nature?

I'm glad someone asked that. I've been curious.

Aaaannndddd que the ganging up (bullying)

Does it get old? I bet that dopamine hit you get while insulting me repeatedly, yet ignoring my direct questions, is pretty nice.

Last-12-Exit

JUST A GIRL said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JUST A GIRL said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Again, no gun in the history of man, has ever been made to defend your home. The intruder doesn't know what you're packing. Basically what you're asking is which gun is more effective at killing quicker. Which is the ak-47, unless you're a marksman and can do a dude between the eyes with a .22

well they make weapons with the specific objective to defend your home. they have shotguns made for hunting and shotguns made specifically for home defense. same with rifles...same with hand guns.
and i bought my 9mm to defend my home...not hunt. so i guess I changed history. sweet!

Nope. They are all designed for killing things.

dude you can't just spew out stuff like "no gun history was made for self defence" that's just crazy talk.

Godfather.

'Gun history' is definitely a factor for preparing one's self for defence against guns. If you didn't know what a gun was... you might just walk up to it and peer down the barrel to see what's inside it.

I think I saw that once on YouTube.

"I reckon I dun went an looked down that there barrel."

That's racist

Yah. I'm a hillbillyphobe.

Do you deliberately act this way or is it your true nature?

I'm glad someone asked that. I've been curious.

Aaaannndddd que the ganging up (bullying)

Does it get old? I bet that dopamine hit you get while insulting me repeatedly, yet ignoring my direct questions, is pretty nice.

Which one insulted you? What are you insulted by?

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

Can't recall them specifically (though I think most here do honestly read and consider such articles and only discount them if there is a reason to do so), but just wondering what the end game is for you guys? I.e. Assuming you are willing to admit there is a really bad gun violence problem in the USA, what do you think needs to be done to dramatically reduce it, if not better gun regulation and fewer guns? Sorry if you've said before, but I don't recall ever seeing a real solution suggested by either one of you. Are your ideas rooted in somehow adjusting the criminal justice system? If so, do you have stats on first time offenders who hurt or kill using guns? Would also like to know about your ideas regarding accidental gun deaths connected to both responsible and irresponsible gun owners.

i've said this numerous times but here's my solutions one more time:
(originally directed to my friend callen)

every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly.
There you go my friend!
Mike

PJ_Soul

JUST A GIRL said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JUST A GIRL said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Again, no gun in the history of man, has ever been made to defend your home. The intruder doesn't know what you're packing. Basically what you're asking is which gun is more effective at killing quicker. Which is the ak-47, unless you're a marksman and can do a dude between the eyes with a .22

well they make weapons with the specific objective to defend your home. they have shotguns made for hunting and shotguns made specifically for home defense. same with rifles...same with hand guns.
and i bought my 9mm to defend my home...not hunt. so i guess I changed history. sweet!

Nope. They are all designed for killing things.

dude you can't just spew out stuff like "no gun history was made for self defence" that's just crazy talk.

Godfather.

'Gun history' is definitely a factor for preparing one's self for defence against guns. If you didn't know what a gun was... you might just walk up to it and peer down the barrel to see what's inside it.

I think I saw that once on YouTube.

"I reckon I dun went an looked down that there barrel."

That's racist

Yah. I'm a hillbillyphobe.

Do you deliberately act this way or is it your true nature?

I'm glad someone asked that. I've been curious.

Aaaannndddd que the ganging up (bullying)

Does it get old? I bet that dopamine hit you get while insulting me repeatedly, yet ignoring my direct questions, is pretty nice.

No sure about Thirty, but for me it's a serious question.
I don't recall you ever asking me a direct question that I didn't answer, but if you did, then I missed the questions, so feel free to ask again. That said, you are the one who hasn't answer any question I've asked you.
Yes, this victim card really is getting old. And in case you haven't noticed, it doesn't work, either.

josevolution

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

Can't recall them specifically (though I think most here do honestly read and consider such articles and only discount them if there is a reason to do so), but just wondering what the end game is for you guys? I.e. Assuming you are willing to admit there is a really bad gun violence problem in the USA, what do you think needs to be done to dramatically reduce it, if not better gun regulation and fewer guns? Sorry if you've said before, but I don't recall ever seeing a real solution suggested by either one of you. Are your ideas rooted in somehow adjusting the criminal justice system? If so, do you have stats on first time offenders who hurt or kill using guns? Would also like to know about your ideas regarding accidental gun deaths connected to both responsible and irresponsible gun owners.

i've said this numerous times but here's my solutions one more time:
(originally directed to my friend callen)

every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly.
There you go my friend!
Mike

Ok this to me would be a great way to move forward and you get to keep your guns which by the way no one here ever said to ban all guns or take them from you ....

mcgruff10

josevolution said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

Can't recall them specifically (though I think most here do honestly read and consider such articles and only discount them if there is a reason to do so), but just wondering what the end game is for you guys? I.e. Assuming you are willing to admit there is a really bad gun violence problem in the USA, what do you think needs to be done to dramatically reduce it, if not better gun regulation and fewer guns? Sorry if you've said before, but I don't recall ever seeing a real solution suggested by either one of you. Are your ideas rooted in somehow adjusting the criminal justice system? If so, do you have stats on first time offenders who hurt or kill using guns? Would also like to know about your ideas regarding accidental gun deaths connected to both responsible and irresponsible gun owners.

i've said this numerous times but here's my solutions one more time:
(originally directed to my friend callen)

every weapon bought has to be registered with the state and federal government. Before owning a gun you must take a firearm safety course. Before owning a gun you must pass a background check. Before owning a gun you must pass a mental health background check. Before owning your first gun your employer should be contacted to make sure there are no problems. Penalties for straw purchases and selling guns illegally should be enforced and more severe. Educate children (what age I don't know) on what a firearm is, what it can do, what to do if you find one in you house. Educate on safely storing firearms: pass a law that provides a gun lock with every firearm purchase. Here in nj we have a maximum of 15 rounds for a detachable clip but I don't see why a federal policy of max of 30 rounds isn't reasonable. Don't ban any guns, just make sure people are fit to use them responsibly.
There you go my friend!
Mike

Ok this to me would be a great way to move forward and you get to keep your guns which by the way no one here ever said to ban all guns or take them from you ....

jose you already agreed with me once before on this same post lol. I seriously think that a lot of my suggestions are just common sense but for some reason people are scared as hell to put these measures into place.
However there are people on here that want to ban certain guns and tax the hell out of ammo, that I have a problem with.

PJ_Soul

Okay McGruff. So you do support a lot more regulation than I realized (which is what I think most people who I guess you would consider on the other side of the fence from you think).... I personally don't approve of taxing ammo either (or raising the retail prices). That would just bolster those who reject regulation. But I do support banning certain weapons. Citizens shouldn't be able to buy automatics at all, anywhere, for any reason. I think the military (with government oversight obviously) should strictly monitor their manufacture (or even take over their manufacture altogether) to prevent them from being attained illegally.

Where you really lost me is the education of children part. I think the only thing being taught to children is that guns are a really fucking bad idea if they're not needed for hunting for food or in the military, and that if they ever see one, don't go near it and tell an adult. Adding guns as a thing to learn about in school in the context of teaching them how to use them would just fuel the already totally out of control gun culture in the US, which I think is the #1 problem in the first place. I think this whole "responsible gun owner" thing is pretty much a crock in the US tbh (you didn't mention accidental deaths... plenty of those are from guns owned by the so-called responsible owners). I think that some kind of anti-gun culture plan needs to be formulated for a long term plan to get Americans' heads out of the whole thing in general. Not sure what that would look like, but it would probably be really hard and take generations... Worth it though.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JUST A GIRL said:

PJ_Soul said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

JUST A GIRL said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

dudeman said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

Godfather. said:

Last-12-Exit said:

mcgruff10 said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Again, no gun in the history of man, has ever been made to defend your home. The intruder doesn't know what you're packing. Basically what you're asking is which gun is more effective at killing quicker. Which is the ak-47, unless you're a marksman and can do a dude between the eyes with a .22

well they make weapons with the specific objective to defend your home. they have shotguns made for hunting and shotguns made specifically for home defense. same with rifles...same with hand guns.
and i bought my 9mm to defend my home...not hunt. so i guess I changed history. sweet!

Nope. They are all designed for killing things.

dude you can't just spew out stuff like "no gun history was made for self defence" that's just crazy talk.

Godfather.

'Gun history' is definitely a factor for preparing one's self for defence against guns. If you didn't know what a gun was... you might just walk up to it and peer down the barrel to see what's inside it.

I think I saw that once on YouTube.

"I reckon I dun went an looked down that there barrel."

That's racist

Yah. I'm a hillbillyphobe.

Do you deliberately act this way or is it your true nature?

I'm glad someone asked that. I've been curious.

Aaaannndddd que the ganging up (bullying)

Does it get old? I bet that dopamine hit you get while insulting me repeatedly, yet ignoring my direct questions, is pretty nice.

You call me a racist in laughable fashion... and then cry victim when you're challenged on your ridiculous assertion.

Get back on your meds. Good lord, man.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

mcgruff10 said:

Godfather. said:

some people can star right at the facts and still not see the truth.

Godfather.

Yes sir. I presented nemerous articles from reputable sources....

Your partner in crime is rubbing off on you.

I did 'star' at those facts in my face... but you guys aren't seriously trying to establish a foothold in this argument suggesting 170 million new guns is responsible for less violent crime are you? McScruffy... you've been a very credible and well spoken advocate for the pro gun side... but if this is something you subscribe to with any measurable level of belief... I'm not too sure what to say?

You do realize that there is a strong correlation between gun ownership and gun deaths that has consistently been rebuffed by people arguing on the same side of the fence as yourself, right?

mcgruff10

PJ_Soul said:

Okay McGruff. So you do support a lot more regulation than I realized (which is what I think most people who I guess you would consider on the other side of the fence from you).... I personally don't approve of taxing ammo either (or raising the retail prices). That would just bolster those who reject regulation. But I do support banning certain weapons. Citizens shouldn't be able to buy automatics at all, anywhere, for any reason. I think the military (with government oversight obviously) should strictly monitor their manufacture (or even take over their manufacture altogether) to prevent them from being attained illegally.

Where you really lost me is the education of children part. I think the only thing being taught to children is that guns are a really fucking bad idea if they're not needed for hunting for food or in the military, and that if they ever see one, don't go near it and tell an adult. Adding guns as a thing to learn about in school in the context of teaching them how to use them would just fuel the already totally out of control gun culture in the US, which I think is the #1 problem in the first place. I think this whole "responsible gun owner" thing is pretty much a crock in the US tbh (you didn't mention accidental deaths... plenty of those are from guns owned by the so-called responsible owners). I think that some kind of anti-gun culture plan needs to be formulated for a long term plan to get Americans' heads out of the whole thing in general. Not sure what that would look like, but it would probably be really hard and take generations... Worth it though.

no no not education as in how to teach them to shoot, rather when they see a gun respect it, don't touch it..what it can do...etc etc.
accidental deaths....create a law that provided a gun lock with every purchase. (it's a nice start)
oh and automatic weapons are already banned in the us.

Godfather.

thirty, your post is questioning opinions and beliefs and you post it as if your in the right, how can that be ? if 170,000 guns were sold I'd say that there are pleanty of people that have different views than you on gun ownership.

I'd like to buy an" E " Pat

Godfather.

PJ_Soul

Why are people always talking about AK-47s then? Whatever that is. I don't know about guns. Is there till semi-automatic? No one should be able to have one of those either, or anything like it. I also don't support people owning handguns, actually, but thinking those should be banned isn't realistic enough.

Yeah, I think the education you're talking about also would not help the gun culture problem. Better not to talk about it at all in schools IMO. Somehow, the US has to get guns out of American's brains. Adding gun education won't do that. On the contrary. Yes, yes, I understand the issue here.... you've got a gun problem, so you need to teach kids gun safety. Yes, it's a rock and a hard place. But seriously.... Americans are gun nuts, and it's way too in the forefront in your daily lives. Something needs to be done to stop that.