Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less than stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Post edited by dudeman on
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,838
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Obviously I don't agree with you on the gun issue but I totally agree with you about the need to address the problems that drive people to despair.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
I looked further into it. The US is by far the worst for gun deaths in the economic leaders of the world, and it 12th in the world overall, only beaten out in places where gang crime is raging out of control and/or where there is war and ongoing extreme conflict. So Mexico and Colombia, Brazil and Panama beat them because of the drug cartels (in all cases most deaths are within the criminal gangs). Panama specifically has basically no gun regulation btw, and same with several of the others listed btwn and apparently the citizens of Panama are begging for it. Where there are regulations the deaths are almost completely restricted to criminal activity). Swasiland beat the US, as does South Africa, the Phillipines, and some other third world countries that I can't recall. But the US still beats all of those strife - ridden developing nations that should never share a list with a country like the USA in terms of violence and crime but do anyway (and any American should be horrified by just that): the US beats the pants off of all other countries in the world when it comes to school shootings.
I would say that one thing that this all tells us is that population has absolutely nothing to do with gun deaths. It is ALL about culture and about a lot of people being out of control within a nation. That the USA is one of those nations, considering it's relative privilege and wealth and position in the world and relative political and economic stability and high standard of living, is absolutely mind boggling, and totally indefensible.
The US is an economic leader but also has piss poor social programs and the biggest gap between poor and rich.
We let our insane/mental people roam the streets(they aren't the ones doing the shootings I know that)
We have the worst vacation practices compared to other "developed" countries, maternity laws, etc. etc.
I believe all these factors have a significant impact on a culture.
The USA still has a very high quality of life compared to most countries, and the huge gap in wealth isn't because everyone is poor. It's because the rich are so dammed rich. I know the middle class is shrinking, but Americans still live in much greater comfort and luxury than most. I also believe that you are fooling yourself about the social support etc etc if you're comparing to the rest of the world. Sure, some first world nations beat the US there. But there are hundreds of countries thst are way worse, and only 11 of them have more gun deaths than the US. I really do think you're just trying to make excuses here. The obvious distinction in the US is a very unique obsession with guns. Not all the other stuff you're bringing up. And i son's think the things you mention can be used to explain that obsession either. I think what explains the obsession is YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAW! U-S-A!! The 2nd Amendment, Whoohoo! From my cold dead hands! .... if you get what I mean. Gun culture.
That list up above that someone posted. Look at all those countries and tell me which one has worse social practices than the US…
I do agree that the US has a love for guns. No doubt about it. Never disagreed with that.
I'm also looking at it from a completely different view that everyone wants to just dismiss.
There is definitely something wrong with a society as a whole when you feel the urge to go on a killing spree.
I am talking about the 11 countries that are worse than the US. The USA has no business being amongst those numbers.
And back to my first question... What is their population?
This dance will go on forever...
What difference does it make, when it's clear that large populations aren't the cause?? If they were then China and India would be in the list.
Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I keep hearing a guns main purpose is "for killing" when the truth is, it's for PROTECTION. That's the purpose of a gun. You own a pistol so when some meth head breaks in you have a fighting chance against someone with super human strength.
My mother, 88, had a revolver that has sat in her nightstand the last 50 years. She's never shot anyone, never hurt anyone, and the GUN ITSELF sure as hell never hurt anyone.
I'll say it again, guns don't kill people. People do. When people use guns to kill and go to jail, and then kill again, they aren't using guns. They're using whatever they can because IF SOMEONE WANTS TO KILL, THEY WILL. Regardless of Having a gun or not.
This mentality is partly responsible for 20 dead kids in Sandy Hook. You and everyone who thinks this way has blood on their hands.
This might be the worst thing I have ever read on these boards.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I looked further into it. The US is by far the worst for gun deaths in the economic leaders of the world, and it 12th in the world overall, only beaten out in places where gang crime is raging out of control and/or where there is war and ongoing extreme conflict. So Mexico and Colombia, Brazil and Panama beat them because of the drug cartels (in all cases most deaths are within the criminal gangs). Panama specifically has basically no gun regulation btw, and same with several of the others listed btwn and apparently the citizens of Panama are begging for it. Where there are regulations the deaths are almost completely restricted to criminal activity). Swasiland beat the US, as does South Africa, the Phillipines, and some other third world countries that I can't recall. But the US still beats all of those strife - ridden developing nations that should never share a list with a country like the USA in terms of violence and crime but do anyway (and any American should be horrified by just that): the US beats the pants off of all other countries in the world when it comes to school shootings.
I would say that one thing that this all tells us is that population has absolutely nothing to do with gun deaths. It is ALL about culture and about a lot of people being out of control within a nation. That the USA is one of those nations, considering it's relative privilege and wealth and position in the world and relative political and economic stability and high standard of living, is absolutely mind boggling, and totally indefensible.
The US is an economic leader but also has piss poor social programs and the biggest gap between poor and rich.
We let our insane/mental people roam the streets(they aren't the ones doing the shootings I know that)
We have the worst vacation practices compared to other "developed" countries, maternity laws, etc. etc.
I believe all these factors have a significant impact on a culture.
The USA still has a very high quality of life compared to most countries, and the huge gap in wealth isn't because everyone is poor. It's because the rich are so dammed rich. I know the middle class is shrinking, but Americans still live in much greater comfort and luxury than most. I also believe that you are fooling yourself about the social support etc etc if you're comparing to the rest of the world. Sure, some first world nations beat the US there. But there are hundreds of countries thst are way worse, and only 11 of them have more gun deaths than the US. I really do think you're just trying to make excuses here. The obvious distinction in the US is a very unique obsession with guns. Not all the other stuff you're bringing up. And i son's think the things you mention can be used to explain that obsession either. I think what explains the obsession is YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAW! U-S-A!! The 2nd Amendment, Whoohoo! From my cold dead hands! .... if you get what I mean. Gun culture.
That list up above that someone posted. Look at all those countries and tell me which one has worse social practices than the US…
I do agree that the US has a love for guns. No doubt about it. Never disagreed with that.
I'm also looking at it from a completely different view that everyone wants to just dismiss.
There is definitely something wrong with a society as a whole when you feel the urge to go on a killing spree.
I am talking about the 11 countries that are worse than the US. The USA has no business being amongst those numbers.
And back to my first question... What is their population?
This dance will go on forever...
What difference does it make, when it's clear that large populations aren't the cause?? If they were then China and India would be in the list.
Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.
IYHO, what is the reason behind the problem itself?
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
I looked further into it. The US is by far the worst for gun deaths in the economic leaders of the world, and it 12th in the world overall, only beaten out in places where gang crime is raging out of control and/or where there is war and ongoing extreme conflict. So Mexico and Colombia, Brazil and Panama beat them because of the drug cartels (in all cases most deaths are within the criminal gangs). Panama specifically has basically no gun regulation btw, and same with several of the others listed btwn and apparently the citizens of Panama are begging for it. Where there are regulations the deaths are almost completely restricted to criminal activity). Swasiland beat the US, as does South Africa, the Phillipines, and some other third world countries that I can't recall. But the US still beats all of those strife - ridden developing nations that should never share a list with a country like the USA in terms of violence and crime but do anyway (and any American should be horrified by just that): the US beats the pants off of all other countries in the world when it comes to school shootings.
I would say that one thing that this all tells us is that population has absolutely nothing to do with gun deaths. It is ALL about culture and about a lot of people being out of control within a nation. That the USA is one of those nations, considering it's relative privilege and wealth and position in the world and relative political and economic stability and high standard of living, is absolutely mind boggling, and totally indefensible.
The US is an economic leader but also has piss poor social programs and the biggest gap between poor and rich.
We let our insane/mental people roam the streets(they aren't the ones doing the shootings I know that)
We have the worst vacation practices compared to other "developed" countries, maternity laws, etc. etc.
I believe all these factors have a significant impact on a culture.
The USA still has a very high quality of life compared to most countries, and the huge gap in wealth isn't because everyone is poor. It's because the rich are so dammed rich. I know the middle class is shrinking, but Americans still live in much greater comfort and luxury than most. I also believe that you are fooling yourself about the social support etc etc if you're comparing to the rest of the world. Sure, some first world nations beat the US there. But there are hundreds of countries thst are way worse, and only 11 of them have more gun deaths than the US. I really do think you're just trying to make excuses here. The obvious distinction in the US is a very unique obsession with guns. Not all the other stuff you're bringing up. And i son's think the things you mention can be used to explain that obsession either. I think what explains the obsession is YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAW! U-S-A!! The 2nd Amendment, Whoohoo! From my cold dead hands! .... if you get what I mean. Gun culture.
That list up above that someone posted. Look at all those countries and tell me which one has worse social practices than the US…
I do agree that the US has a love for guns. No doubt about it. Never disagreed with that.
I'm also looking at it from a completely different view that everyone wants to just dismiss.
There is definitely something wrong with a society as a whole when you feel the urge to go on a killing spree.
I am talking about the 11 countries that are worse than the US. The USA has no business being amongst those numbers.
And back to my first question... What is their population?
This dance will go on forever...
What difference does it make, when it's clear that large populations aren't the cause?? If they were then China and India would be in the list.
Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.
IYHO, what is the reason behind the problem itself?
The unique American obsession with guns combined with their unique brand of constant paranoia.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I looked further into it. The US is by far the worst for gun deaths in the economic leaders of the world, and it 12th in the world overall, only beaten out in places where gang crime is raging out of control and/or where there is war and ongoing extreme conflict. So Mexico and Colombia, Brazil and Panama beat them because of the drug cartels (in all cases most deaths are within the criminal gangs). Panama specifically has basically no gun regulation btw, and same with several of the others listed btwn and apparently the citizens of Panama are begging for it. Where there are regulations the deaths are almost completely restricted to criminal activity). Swasiland beat the US, as does South Africa, the Phillipines, and some other third world countries that I can't recall. But the US still beats all of those strife - ridden developing nations that should never share a list with a country like the USA in terms of violence and crime but do anyway (and any American should be horrified by just that): the US beats the pants off of all other countries in the world when it comes to school shootings.
I would say that one thing that this all tells us is that population has absolutely nothing to do with gun deaths. It is ALL about culture and about a lot of people being out of control within a nation. That the USA is one of those nations, considering it's relative privilege and wealth and position in the world and relative political and economic stability and high standard of living, is absolutely mind boggling, and totally indefensible.
The US is an economic leader but also has piss poor social programs and the biggest gap between poor and rich.
We let our insane/mental people roam the streets(they aren't the ones doing the shootings I know that)
We have the worst vacation practices compared to other "developed" countries, maternity laws, etc. etc.
I believe all these factors have a significant impact on a culture.
The USA still has a very high quality of life compared to most countries, and the huge gap in wealth isn't because everyone is poor. It's because the rich are so dammed rich. I know the middle class is shrinking, but Americans still live in much greater comfort and luxury than most. I also believe that you are fooling yourself about the social support etc etc if you're comparing to the rest of the world. Sure, some first world nations beat the US there. But there are hundreds of countries thst are way worse, and only 11 of them have more gun deaths than the US. I really do think you're just trying to make excuses here. The obvious distinction in the US is a very unique obsession with guns. Not all the other stuff you're bringing up. And i son's think the things you mention can be used to explain that obsession either. I think what explains the obsession is YEEEEEEE HAAAAAAW! U-S-A!! The 2nd Amendment, Whoohoo! From my cold dead hands! .... if you get what I mean. Gun culture.
That list up above that someone posted. Look at all those countries and tell me which one has worse social practices than the US…
I do agree that the US has a love for guns. No doubt about it. Never disagreed with that.
I'm also looking at it from a completely different view that everyone wants to just dismiss.
There is definitely something wrong with a society as a whole when you feel the urge to go on a killing spree.
I am talking about the 11 countries that are worse than the US. The USA has no business being amongst those numbers.
And back to my first question... What is their population?
This dance will go on forever...
What difference does it make, when it's clear that large populations aren't the cause?? If they were then China and India would be in the list.
Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.
IYHO, what is the reason behind the problem itself?
The unique American obsession with guns combined with their unique brand of constant paranoia.
Is it still considered paranoia when the violence has already happened from a very real threat?
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Talk about paranoia. God forbid the government end private guns sales. Please explain how that is one step closer to confiscation. And if guns are forced to be registered, that must mean the government would then know where all of your guns are and that in turn would make it easier for them to take?
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Your first two sentences seem to contradict each other.
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Talk about paranoia. God forbid the government end private guns sales. Please explain how that is one step closer to confiscation. And if guns are forced to be registered, that must mean the government would then know where all of your guns are and that in turn would make it easier for them to take?
I don't think private sales should be made illegal, I just think that they should be subject to the same NICS background checks that are required for sales from FFL's.
A national gun registry would accomplish exactly what you detailed above. What other purpose would it possibly serve?
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Your first two sentences seem to contradict each other.
You don't see the difference between having guns confiscated and our government becoming an oppressive body that enslaves its people? One may potentially pave the way for the other but they're not the same thing.
I'm not one that feels like people need guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, I think some people feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other citizens. I am one of the latter and feel like it should be left to a law-abiding, legal citizens to make that decision for themselves.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
I don't think anyone actually thinks they need guns to defend themselves against a tyrannical government. I think they say they do because there's not many strong arguments for the status quo and they need to offer something to support their views.
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Talk about paranoia. God forbid the government end private guns sales. Please explain how that is one step closer to confiscation. And if guns are forced to be registered, that must mean the government would then know where all of your guns are and that in turn would make it easier for them to take?
I don't think private sales should be made illegal, I just think that they should be subject to the same NICS background checks that are required for sales from FFL's.
A national gun registry would accomplish exactly what you detailed above. What other purpose would it possibly serve?
It would serve the same purpose as a vehicle registry. It would link a dangerous tool to it's lawful owner. The fees collected would be used to address the issues present in a society with dangerous tools.
It was really difficult not to be sarcastic and dickish, as this is just beyond obvious. I did my best.
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Talk about paranoia. God forbid the government end private guns sales. Please explain how that is one step closer to confiscation. And if guns are forced to be registered, that must mean the government would then know where all of your guns are and that in turn would make it easier for them to take?
I don't think private sales should be made illegal, I just think that they should be subject to the same NICS background checks that are required for sales from FFL's.
A national gun registry would accomplish exactly what you detailed above. What other purpose would it possibly serve?
It would serve the same purpose as a vehicle registry. It would link a dangerous tool to it's lawful owner. The fees collected would be used to address the issues present in a society with dangerous tools.
It was really difficult not to be sarcastic and dickish, as this is just beyond obvious. I did my best.
In a perfect world, yeah, that sounds pretty good. However, a registry will apply to those individuals that are actually interested in belonging to the law-abiding segment of the population. Same applies to confiscation. The law-abiding will register and/or surrender their firearms, the criminals will not. Hence their status as "criminals". You could impose a registry for all new purchases going forward, but what of those firearms that are already privately owned?
Thanks for not being a dick. I really appreciate your restraint in not attacking my intelligence.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
I would think that the "protection" you refer to would be your local police. That is a city gov't...not federal...or do you not support any type of gov't whatsoever?
I don't understand how gun registration would be different than vehicle registration.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
I would think that the "protection" you refer to would be your local police. That is a city gov't...not federal...or do you not support any type of gov't whatsoever?
I don't understand how gun registration would be different than vehicle registration.
Local police are under no obligation to protect me. An officer can watch me be stabbed to death and as long as he arrests my killer, he has done his job. There is legal precedent for this.
I also am not anti-govenrment. In fact, I wouldn't want to live in a society without one. The problem with our government is that it paints with a very wide brush, is reactionary and couldn't possibly meet every citizens individual needs in this matter.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Talk about paranoia. God forbid the government end private guns sales. Please explain how that is one step closer to confiscation. And if guns are forced to be registered, that must mean the government would then know where all of your guns are and that in turn would make it easier for them to take?
I don't think private sales should be made illegal, I just think that they should be subject to the same NICS background checks that are required for sales from FFL's.
A national gun registry would accomplish exactly what you detailed above. What other purpose would it possibly serve?
What purpose does it serve to register vehicles? Taxes. That's my guess.
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
I would think that the "protection" you refer to would be your local police. That is a city gov't...not federal...or do you not support any type of gov't whatsoever?
I don't understand how gun registration would be different than vehicle registration.
Local police are under no obligation to protect me. An officer can watch me be stabbed to death and as long as he arrests my killer, he has done his job. There is legal precedent for this.
I also am not anti-govenrment. In fact, I wouldn't want to live in a society without one. The problem with our government is that it paints with a very wide brush, is reactionary and couldn't possibly meet every citizens individual needs in this matter.
Dudeman, it's their prime directive: "To protect and serve."
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Dudeman, it's their prime directive: "To protect and serve."
This came to mind as well. Why else would 911 be in place? Or all of the times I've called on my city's fine sheriffs and officers when certain shit was going down?
They "protect" by arresting and incarcerating criminals. They are, in essence protecting society from those criminals, but they are doing so only after a crime has been committed.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
They "protect" by arresting and incarcerating criminals. They are, in essence protecting society from those criminals, but they are doing so only after a crime has been committed.
They don't have the benefit of foresight. They protect however they can.
But I'm not sure what you are arguing. Nobody is saying you can't have a shotgun in your home for protection. They're saying you don't need a tommy gun or 44 magnum to offer the same level of security given the level of risk the aforementioned carry when in the wrong hands.
They "protect" by arresting and incarcerating criminals. They are, in essence protecting society from those criminals, but they are doing so only after a crime has been committed.
They don't have the benefit of foresight. They protect however they can.
But I'm not sure what you are arguing. Nobody is saying you can't have a shotgun in your home for protection. They're saying you don't need a tommy gun or 44 magnum to offer the same level of security given the level of risk the aforementioned carry when in the wrong hands.
First, I'm not arguing, I'm participating in a discussion.
Second, people in this thread are questioning why anyone would want a gun for protection, not which types of guns are considered acceptable to serve that role.
As for the police "not having the benefit of foresight", I don't have that benefit either. I choose to be as prepared as I can, however when less than ideal circumstances present themselves and I'm alone the efforts to curtail those circumstances.
I look at defensive ownership of a firearm much like I look at owning a first-aid kit or a spare tire for my car. I don't live in fear that I may have to use any of those things to get myself or my family through a tough situation, but I am able and prepared to use them if need be.
In all of those cases, I hope I never need any of those items.
If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
They "protect" by arresting and incarcerating criminals. They are, in essence protecting society from those criminals, but they are doing so only after a crime has been committed.
They don't have the benefit of foresight. They protect however they can.
But I'm not sure what you are arguing. Nobody is saying you can't have a shotgun in your home for protection. They're saying you don't need a tommy gun or 44 magnum to offer the same level of security given the level of risk the aforementioned carry when in the wrong hands.
First, I'm not arguing, I'm participating in a discussion.
Second, people in this thread are questioning why anyone would want a gun for protection, not which types of guns are considered acceptable to serve that role.
As for the police "not having the benefit of foresight", I don't have that benefit either. I choose to be as prepared as I can, however when less than ideal circumstances present themselves and I'm alone the efforts to curtail those circumstances.
I look at defensive ownership of a firearm much like I look at owning a first-aid kit or a spare tire for my car. I don't live in fear that I may have to use any of those things to get myself or my family through a tough situation, but I am able and prepared to use them if need be.
In all of those cases, I hope I never need any of those items.
I feel people should always have the right to own a firearm (shotgun, hunting rifle, or handgun in certain situations)... unless, of course, they forfeit their right by proving to be someone who might be dangerous with such a gun.
My stance is handguns and assault rifles. The majority of your murders are via the handgun- too easily concealable. I don't see the need for any citizen to own an assault rifle- they've proven to be extremely efficient weapons for committing mass murder.
Home protection is legitimate and so is hunting. Shotguns and rifles with small magazine sizes service these interests very well.
They "protect" by arresting and incarcerating criminals. They are, in essence protecting society from those criminals, but they are doing so only after a crime has been committed.
The police are there to serve and protect. Of course it's their jobs to try and prevent crime if they can. Did I see you say that a policeman can just stand there and watch a crime being committed, no problem, as long as they catch the criminal after the fact? .... Makes me glad I don't live wherever you do, a place where the cops are not doing half their job.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Something else to consider: it was said many times in this thread that America has a gun problem and the "gun nuts" refuse to acknowledge that. My reply is "No shit America has a gun problem. And a drug problem and an education problem and a race problem and a homeless problem and a class problem and an environmental problem and a work problem and a prison problem and a gang problem and an immigration problem and a greed problem and a corruption problem and a mental health problem and an obesity problem and a culture problem and a drinking problem and a smoking problem and ...................
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less that stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Those problems are much harder to solve. When people are truly at the end of their rope, they are desperate and having such destructive weapons available leads to deaths that wouldn't have occured had a blade or blunt object been the only option.
Are you advocating the confiscation of all guns from private ownership?
No, only tighter restrictions on future sales. An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
The end of private sales and registration is a slippery slope and potentially dangerous as those things would likely lead to complete confiscation. I'm not one of those people that thinks our government is going to enslave its people, I just don't trust them to protect me and my family. They can't even balance a fucking checkbook.
Great so freakin free for all.
And many gun owners can't balance checkbook.
People still have checkbooks? And don't forget the "a" before checkbook. With the "a" your post is super intelligent.
Comments
Too many people out there feel victimized or marginalized by all of these problems. Some of the less than stable ones choose to act out in violent ways with firearms. Yes, that's a problem too, but until we address these issues that are driving people to the level despair that they feel they need to do horrible things to others, nothing will meaningfully change.
Btw, yes there are social probs in the US, but those couldn't be the cause of the gun problem either IMO. There are a ton of countries with similar and much much worse social probs than Americans have, and they don't have a gun problem either. I'm not saying they'd don't contribute to an existing problem, but it's not the reason behind the problem itself IMHO.
An absolute and total end to private sales and registration of all guns sold would be a great place to start.
For the record, confiscation isn't some devilish idea that makes me grab my pitchfork.
A national gun registry would accomplish exactly what you detailed above. What other purpose would it possibly serve?
I'm not one that feels like people need guns to protect themselves from a tyrannical government, I think some people feel the need to own guns to protect themselves from other citizens. I am one of the latter and feel like it should be left to a law-abiding, legal citizens to make that decision for themselves.
It was really difficult not to be sarcastic and dickish, as this is just beyond obvious.
I did my best.
Thanks for not being a dick. I really appreciate your restraint in not attacking my intelligence.
I don't understand how gun registration would be different than vehicle registration.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
I also am not anti-govenrment. In fact, I wouldn't want to live in a society without one. The problem with our government is that it paints with a very wide brush, is reactionary and couldn't possibly meet every citizens individual needs in this matter.
But I'm not sure what you are arguing. Nobody is saying you can't have a shotgun in your home for protection. They're saying you don't need a tommy gun or 44 magnum to offer the same level of security given the level of risk the aforementioned carry when in the wrong hands.
Second, people in this thread are questioning why anyone would want a gun for protection, not which types of guns are considered acceptable to serve that role.
As for the police "not having the benefit of foresight", I don't have that benefit either. I choose to be as prepared as I can, however when less than ideal circumstances present themselves and I'm alone the efforts to curtail those circumstances.
I look at defensive ownership of a firearm much like I look at owning a first-aid kit or a spare tire for my car. I don't live in fear that I may have to use any of those things to get myself or my family through a tough situation, but I am able and prepared to use them if need be.
In all of those cases, I hope I never need any of those items.
And many gun owners can't balance checkbook.
My stance is handguns and assault rifles. The majority of your murders are via the handgun- too easily concealable. I don't see the need for any citizen to own an assault rifle- they've proven to be extremely efficient weapons for committing mass murder.
Home protection is legitimate and so is hunting. Shotguns and rifles with small magazine sizes service these interests very well.
And don't forget the "a" before checkbook. With the "a" your post is super intelligent.