Yes, I was trying to flush out who contacted the seller. As I told Paul last night, yes the seller maintains they never sold it. That is usually what happens when people don't want to send a message through eBay saying they sold offline. But even if they *did* keep it, having sent confirmations the night before is anyone going to sit there and think that maybe someone contacted them and either offered more and got it, or offered more/told them it was worth way more? Anything's possible, but as I've said multiple times this follows a pattern in now 3 significant finds in well under a year.
Yes Paul put me in a touch with someone selling their collecting three years ago. Paul also got some nice items from that collection as well as me trading a chunk of it as part of the payment for the Reeenk Roink I bought through him (for a sum way, way higher than this). I'm not sure what mentioning that has to do with anything outside of trying to call out that I had it already and/or diminish the whole thing, but we both ended up with stuff from that deal.
I was not trying to start a witch hunt which is why i said a few times for people not speculate and I that I was waiting to see if someone would come talk to me. I'm sorry people messaged Paul... was never the intent to have people go out of their way to message people. Was hoping this would have a more positive outcome in that someone might have the balls to contact me and say "Yeah I bought it" or "Yeah I think I blew it up" unlike the past times where I had to find out myself from the seller. Obviously that's never going to happen.
Josh it's only ever going to be a witch hunt when you throw out accusations that your friends fucked the deal. When actually you had no idea if that was true. Using the tactic that you were suggesting you knew who had got the disc but wanted them to come forward to talk to you - and bringing in the pillars of the community- in an attempt to flush them out was in poor taste. People bought into the ruse when in fact you had absolutely no idea all along if what you were saying was in fact true.
That poor taste ended up with me being slighted, and when you start throwing out a thread like this one would you honestly expect people not to speculate whom you are referring to ? Wasn't that the intention ? Of course people are curious and will make up their own mind. Hence the witch hunt - the one being conducted on a sham and misinformation.
The thread wasn't done as you know from our chat last night ...I mentioned I would post today and now you act like its a surprise ? It's entirely natural for someone to want to throw their shine onto a subject when they have been wrongly framed into it.
I brought up our past collaborations purely to highlight that I've been more than helpful previously and now I'm being painted as public enemy number one.
One spent a day away from the forum and finds the beginnings of the apocalypse, I feel bad for Josh, reading from page one looks like the seller found a higher offer, $1200 sounds like a super deal, a gift I would say, BUT even if I see it first I couldn't buy it, $1200 is a lot of money for some, I was lucky and got mine for way less, but there are people with deep pockets willing to throw piles of money for rare stuff, Josh knows that first hand, we all do.
I'm sure anyone selling on eBay is not doing it to help "a fellow fan", if you sell something on eBay for $1200 and someone offers you $2500 later I'm sure nobody would say "Oh no no no, I don't want a negative feedback on eBay" it's fucking eBay a negative feedback is well worth $1300 on top of the $1200! again I'm not saying is right, IT SUCKS donkey balls BUT if people wants charity, call Dave, a lot of times he sells some awesome stuff for incredible prices for a good cause, we all win when he sells something for the yellow ribbon. Doing business in the forum is one thing, I believe in the spirit of the community, I've see incredible acts of generosity and a few acts of despicable selfishness (ask all the people who indirectly begs for shit here all the time, they can get charity but when the beggar sells others have to pay what the market dictates, the hypocrisy is amazing).
Back to the reeenk issue... then I read the seller is still in possession of it... WTF? I'm sure the seller will put it again for sale for way more than $1200, so all the witch hunt was a sad act of pettiness and lack of self-awareness, maybe the seller realized he had something way too valuable to let it go, I'm sure he got a shit ton of messages AFTER the sell was done, it happened to some of us, it happened to me for sure, I'm sure the seller was "why people keep sending me message after message after the item is sold?", "yes buddy you have a huge diamond and didn't know it, and because if yours you'r entitled to keep it if you have second thoughts"... again I know it was shitty I can't stretch that enough, and there are no excuses but then I read Paul's message... aaand BANG another WTF? Paul has been indirectly blamed for this?... The real victim here is Paul no Josh, I'm sure Josh will move on in a better position than before with lots of people rooting for him (is not like he lost something he didn't have 2 already), BUT from all the people in the world some of you decided it was Paul... For fucks sake, if someone was and still is instrumental for the goodwill and charitable side of the forum is Paul, but in at the same time Paul is not bound to be Mother Theresa, if he wants to make money he is entitled to if he wants to be charitable same thing, fuck off all whom points fingers but lack self awareness.
To finish and move on, the other side of the witch hunt... A LOT of people would buy shit from Hitler here if he was selling something everyone wants, "hey guys this grey guy Adolf is selling his Benny for $250, such a great guy, no? lots of people have been called out for being assholes here and then they return to flip shit and people post on their threads to call them "great fellow fans" for hooking people up at good prices "fuck the flippers", and that is Ok too, but remember how futile witch hunts are.
TLDR eBay sucks. With hunts are futile. And to some people, get a fucking life.
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
As I've said before, the seller isn't going to say anything. What are they going to say? "Oh dude after I emailed you I got a long explanation and offer from username pjgod123 that offered me $2,000 and I took it?" All I could go on was the timeline, the few emails that I got from the seller before/after refund. I sent those to a few people after this and every single one of them said "Yeah, he's not keeping it." Whether that means he sold to someone else or pulled back because of someone telling him he should get more and will list later... who knows.
I didn't start the thread here but I had hoped it would help get the person who either bought it or blew it up to contact me. Obviously that was a stupid thought. I am sorry it led to anyone contacting anyone else about this - no one should have messaged anyone else about this as it wasn't their transaction and . That was never the intent... the hope was that someone would get in touch about it. Obviously that's not going to happen. And clearly there are issues from before this sale that have led to me being more sensitive to things going south after the fact, and I've been clear I do not want to get into any of that on here, so I will keep it at that.
Josh go back to pages 1 and 2 and tell me if the last few comments of yours here can genuinely be reconciled with those made at the start.
Are you seriously suggesting you weren't pointing the finger, you weren't suggesting you categorically knew who the buyer was and didn't play on that to gain mass support here?
The vitriol exhibited in those first few pages is completely at odds to the stance you are trying to purvey now. Tell me hand on heart once you've re read your earlier comments that you genuinely never expected people to second guess and Speculate whom you were point blank accusing ?
It had just happened in the first page, so yeah I was much angrier about it then. I did not expect people to go around messaging people about it, and in hindsight that was incredibly stupid on my part.
I did not say the buyer told me who it was that either bought/contacted/etc - if they had this would've been a whole lot easier. I didn't start this thread and I wish I had stayed away from it. When you've gone through these things a few times recently it's easy to get pissed, but no matter who was involved in those or what might've been said about you to other collectors it's entirely stupid to carry that baggage anywhere. I'll likely never get confirmation who did it, and that point I should've just kept my mouth shut.
So obviously my thought that maybe the person would come talk to me was stupid... no one was going to talk about it and to try and push that button here was in turn dumb as well considering what it led to.
Mostly because I was wondering how the pig lamb boy Vancouver poster selling had generated 5 pages.
If anyone is interested in pig lamb boy... I've got it. But I'll tell you right now... if I accept your offer of $7 (Expresso Beans average) and someone offers me $12... I'm taking the $12.
Mostly because I was wondering how the pig lamb boy Vancouver poster selling had generated 5 pages.
If anyone is interested in pig lamb boy... I've got it. But I'll tell you right now... if I accept your offer of $7 (Expresso Beans average) and someone offers me $12... I'm taking the $12.
Good luck...does that include shipping? You actually might have to pay someone to take that off your hands...
If we were at the school playground, I'd ask all you guys to hug it out at recess...
That's not going to cut it. Paul somehow got dragged into this mess and I must be due for an eye test because I don't see "I'm sorry Paul" in any of the posts above.
I understand the original post was in anger and frustration, but calling out "the pillars" just dragged good peoples reputations in the mud. Paul has hooked me up with some great deals through the years, he is the anti-eBay.. Many items could have fetched more on the open market but he wanted to get them to real fans and posted here. I am greatful for his efforts, so please don't piss him off with false accusations and make him feel the need to step away from the forums like so many others have in recent years.
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
I understand the original post was in anger and frustration, but calling out "the pillars" just dragged good peoples reputations in the mud. Paul has hooked me up with some great deals through the years, he is the anti-eBay.. Many items could have fetched more on the open market but he wanted to get them to real fans and posted here. I am greatful for his efforts, so please don't piss him off with false accusations and make him feel the need to step away from the forums like so many others have in recent years.
This thread is the perfect example of the dangers of an Internet witch hunt. Not to mention an absolute embarrassment
Returned from holiday on Friday after being away for two weeks to a glut of messages pointing me to this thread. Some friendly some not so much - with the underlying message that the very brave whisper crew were holding me responsible.
So I'll start by being extremely clear. And I mean 100%. On holiday I spend time with my family. Quality time. My family mean a whole lot more to me than searching fucking eBay every ten minutes. In fact I can tell you all - I didn't look at eBay during my time in Turkey. Not one pearl jam search. I disconnected largely from the world and enjoyed every minute of it.
So imagine my disappointment to get home to find this complete load of bollocks waiting for me. Imagine the even bigger disappointment to find people I considered friends having been pointing the finger, and even worse - doing so behind my back. Yes they lacked the balls to even confront me. They are the true macho types. Believe me I know who you are, and I don't forget. It saddens me to lose a number of friends in this way but then they were nothing but leaching friends anyway - hanging on to hopefully get some nice items in the future. Well a message to all those folk - fuck you all. I'm genuinely appalled and disgusted at it all. Some community spirit eh?
Monkee was right there are two sides to every coin. But you guys all lapped it up here. The best bit, it transpires no one has a clue who bought the disc. Not one idea. Yes I spoke to Josh last night before posting here, I believed he deserved that courtesy as no one wants to jump the gun right? Josh was to his credit very quick to point out he personally never thought it was me and had corrected at least one person to confirm as much. However even Josh has no idea who bought that disc. So the attempt to hopefully flush out a rogue friend by public pressure was ill conceived at best. I followed up and contacted the seller who is adamant that after the interest created by his auction he was steadfast in the stance that he had decided to keep the cd. So if that's true - the cd never went anywhere. So what was this story every going achieve ? Presumptions and reading between the lines is a very dangerous game. A witch hunt that never had a witch ... Well I hope you all enjoyed it.
Some have commented that collectors like to try and fix prices and drive them high to keep collections valuable ? What are you people sniffing ? Seriously. I'm gonna be clear again. I couldn't give a flying fuck what my collection is worth because to me it's worthless. It's not going to be sold so it's entirely irrelevant. I certainly wouldn't jump on an eBay auction in the hope of driving up a great deal to protect a cd sat in my home. Do you people actually think before you log on here and type just absolute nonsense?
How many of those doubters know that it was me that organized Josh's first reeenk roink three years ago ( I mean the first in his second phase of collecting) and helped him secure a complete collection at an excellent price that completely set him back up again. How many of you know josh has a signed Reeenk roink as well, with the old style sig with the same green pen sleeve? Don't get me wrong I'm not excusing the way that auction went down - not at all, that is not good business and I would undoubtedly be as equally pissed off.... But there is some comfort in the fact that this wasn't filling a whole in a collection, it was almost an exact duplicate to one of the two already owned. The stinger being this was no doubt a much better price and a true bargain on the face of it. Like I say this isn't thrown in there to downplay whatever did happen as Josh has every reason to be pissed. An auction is an auction and once the hammer goes down that should be it.
Although saying that - how much is a RR worth these days? Obviously until we have a fresh auction we won't know - but the ones since 2008 have hardly reached incredible heights. This one was cheap I believe but it would be interesting to see just how cheap it was. The early Ed sig however would in my mind have set it apart from the average reeenk out there.
But the online judges in this thread don't surprise me. For years I've watched those most argent and vocal anti flippers and 'Saints' set up discreet profiles and flip away on eBay in the belief they were conning people. Again you know who you are, but it always entertained me. The ripe hypocrisy is never too far away.
Over the years I've done my best to bring nice items here and help a ton of people secure very nice items. I've enjoyed it and I did it because I loved the hobby.... Look at the thanks and look at what this place has become.
Anyway it's nice to know I can now call myself a pillar. What a privilege.
Am I disappointed ? Absolutely - but I'm more disgusted.
With that, those who talked about me this last few days, do me a favor and never contact me again, that is unless you have the balls to do it man to man and not hide behind your keyboards and behind the scenes. Pathetic.
And keep those messages coming - I won't be replying. But anyone who doesn't believe me here - feel free to contact me for my eBay login and PayPal screens.... I will prove what I need to, that you are a fool.
Wtf. It is so weird that there is this little private (to me) subculture where all of this happening. For what it's worth Paul, here is at least one person who didn't consider you a suspect for a second, lol. I thought it was strange that someone suggested they thought they knew who it was just by reading this thread, because I read the whole thing and never saw anything that could have been considered strong enough info to make any assumption at all. The people who accused you or suspected you should be ashamed of themselves. I still think that shady sellers and buyers should be outted so that we are an informed community. Being cryptic about such people always leads to this kind of thing.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Some have commented that collectors like to try and fix prices and drive them high to keep collections valuable ? What are you people sniffing ? Seriously. I'm gonna be clear again. I couldn't give a flying fuck what my collection is worth because to me it's worthless. It's not going to be sold so it's entirely irrelevant. I certainly wouldn't jump on an eBay auction in the hope of driving up a great deal to protect a cd sat in my home. Do you people actually think before you log on here and type just absolute nonsense?
Paul, first of all I'm sorry that you were targeted in this witch hunt. I am not an active collector, and when I posted in this thread, my post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular because I wouldn't know all of the players. I have seen what you do for the community, and it didn't cross my mind that it could be you. You seem to facilitate trades or sales in an attempt to keep things off of ebay so that the fans here have access to collectibles, and I think that is commendable.
I was probably the first to speculate about market manipulation. It is something that does happen. Perhaps not in this community, perhaps not with PJ merch, but it is a real thing. There are people, from collectors to penny stock traders, who absolutely manipulate the market of a scarce commodity in order to affect price (either up or down). So your question about sniffing, or about whether people here think before logging in seems more like lashing out. I can understand why, given that you feel you were targeted. Again, I just wanted to state that I in no way targeted my post to any specific individual, since I am not so much a collector. More of a consumer. I buy PJ items, but generally to use (hang posters, wear t-shirts, listen to vinyl, etc...) I couldn't imagine why I'd have any interest in a burned CD=R, or a sheep, or a sticker that cost me more than $1, or a $500 zippo, or any number of things that people seem to get excited about here. So while you may think I was irrational for suspecting that someone (not you, not necessarily anyone here) might manipulate the market price of a scarce commodity, I would in turn think it is irrational for someone to spend >$1k for a CD, or a record that will never be opened. I guess we all have to reconcile our irrationality. Anyway, just wanted to highlight that not everyone who posted in this thread was on a witch hunt, or targeted you. I certainly did not. Again, I think you have done some amazing things for the community, appreciate the expertise you and others bring when answering questions about the authenticity of items, and admire many of the things in your collection that represent the history of this great band we all love. Sorry if I contributed to your anger, it honestly wasn't intentional, as we have had no past interaction that I recall. I'm glad you spoke up and brought some perspective to the thread.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
Some have commented that collectors like to try and fix prices and drive them high to keep collections valuable ? What are you people sniffing ? Seriously. I'm gonna be clear again. I couldn't give a flying fuck what my collection is worth because to me it's worthless. It's not going to be sold so it's entirely irrelevant. I certainly wouldn't jump on an eBay auction in the hope of driving up a great deal to protect a cd sat in my home. Do you people actually think before you log on here and type just absolute nonsense?
Paul, first of all I'm sorry that you were targeted in this witch hunt. I am not an active collector, and when I posted in this thread, my post wasn't aimed at anyone in particular because I wouldn't know all of the players. I have seen what you do for the community, and it didn't cross my mind that it could be you. You seem to facilitate trades or sales in an attempt to keep things off of ebay so that the fans here have access to collectibles, and I think that is commendable.
I was probably the first to speculate about market manipulation. It is something that does happen. Perhaps not in this community, perhaps not with PJ merch, but it is a real thing. There are people, from collectors to penny stock traders, who absolutely manipulate the market of a scarce commodity in order to affect price (either up or down). So your question about sniffing, or about whether people here think before logging in seems more like lashing out. I can understand why, given that you feel you were targeted. Again, I just wanted to state that I in no way targeted my post to any specific individual, since I am not so much a collector. More of a consumer. I buy PJ items, but generally to use (hang posters, wear t-shirts, listen to vinyl, etc...) I couldn't imagine why I'd have any interest in a burned CD=R, or a sheep, or a sticker that cost me more than $1, or a $500 zippo, or any number of things that people seem to get excited about here. So while you may think I was irrational for suspecting that someone (not you, not necessarily anyone here) might manipulate the market price of a scarce commodity, I would in turn think it is irrational for someone to spend >$1k for a CD, or a record that will never be opened. I guess we all have to reconcile our irrationality. Anyway, just wanted to highlight that not everyone who posted in this thread was on a witch hunt, or targeted you. I certainly did not. Again, I think you have done some amazing things for the community, appreciate the expertise you and others bring when answering questions about the authenticity of items, and admire many of the things in your collection that represent the history of this great band we all love. Sorry if I contributed to your anger, it honestly wasn't intentional, as we have had no past interaction that I recall. I'm glad you spoke up and brought some perspective to the thread.
No problem Jeff, great post. I don't believe it happens with PJ stuff, the market is too up and down but I understand your point. Markets have always been manipulated in the city and likely always will. But a cd value, perhaps that possible but that would never enter my mind. I honestly couldn't care less what my stuff is Wyeth and have no idea what I paid for a good percentage of it.... That way I can still sleep at night
Sounds like this all could have been avoided if Paul hadnt gone to Turkey. This was pretty ugly all around. Good read tho, a real page turner! Always love a good conspiracy.
Sounds like this all could have been avoided if Paul hadnt gone to Turkey. This was pretty ugly all around. Good read tho, a real page turner! Always love a good conspiracy.
The other day when Paul messaged me back to say he was in Turkey my 1st thought was "why couldn't you have gone 19 years earlier to pick up a stack of Istanbuls?!"
True story.
To quote the 10C from Newsletter #8: "Please understand we have a lot of members and it is very hard to please everybody. If you are one of those unhappy people...please call 1-900-IDN-TCAR."
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
I understand collecting but am really happy I stopped buying 95% of items that weren't related to shows. The only way I would pay 1,200 for a cd would be to sell it for 2,000 later. I am not ashamed to say it.
Pearl Jam has only released 3 albums over the last 12 years, so the collectable aspect of following the band has superseded the musical aspect to some degree. Plus they're approaching 25 years, so a lot of older stuff is getting harder to acquire. A sealed original Ten vinyl is approaching $300. It used to be fun to try to find bootlegs in record stores in the 90s, but with official releases that is over. Posters, sports themed shirts, stickers, baseball cards, playing cards, lighters, pins, track suits, dog collars, luggage tags, wallets, mugs, bottle openers, lumber jackets, dickies jackets, socks, Vans shoes, board shorts, sweatbands, key chains, backpacks, beer bottles, hats, beanies, scarfs, water bottles, IPods, Ponos, colored vinyl etc have helped to fill the collectors appetite.
Post edited by PJammer4life on
Bridge Benefit 1994, San Francisco 1995, San Diego 1995 1 & 2, Missoula 1998, Los Angeles 2000, San Diego 2000, Eddie Vedder/Beck 2/26/2002, Santa Barbara 2003, Irvine 2003, San Diego 2003, Vancouver 2005, Gorge 2005, San Diego 2006, Los Angeles 2006 1 & 2, Santa Barbara 2006, Eddie Vedder 4/10/08, Eddie Vedder 4/12/08, Eddie Vedder 4/15/08, 7/12/2008, SF 8/28/09, LA 9/30/09, LA 10/1/09, LA 10/06/09, LA 10/07/09, San Diego 10/09/09, Eddie Vedder 7/6/2011, Eddie Vedder 7/8/2011, PJ20 9/3/2011, PJ20 9/4/2011, Vancouver 9/25/2011, San Diego 11/21/13, LA 11/24/13, Ohana 9/25/21, Ohana 9/26/21, Ohana 10/1/21, EV 2/17/22, LA Forum 5/6/22, LA Forum 5/7/22, EV 10/1/22, EV 9/30/23
Alpine Valley East Troy WI 1998...United Center Chicago IL1998...All State Arena Rosemont IL 2000 (anybody have a spare poster) United Center Chicago IL 2003...Alpine Valley East Troy WI 2003...Toledo OH 2004...Marcus Amphitheater Milwaukee WI 2006 United Center Chicago IL Nite 1 2008...United Center Chicago IL Nite 2 2008...United Center Chicago IL Nite 1 2009 PJ20 East Troy WI Nite 1 2011...PJ20 East Troy WI Nite 2 2011...Wrigley Field Chicago IL 2013...iWireless Center Moline IL 2014 Bradley Center Milwaukee WI 2014...EV Auditorium Theatre Chicago IL Nite 1 2008...EV Chicago Theatre Chicago IL Nite 1 2011 EV w/ PT celebrating the Who Rosemont Theatre Rosemont IL 2015
Comments
Yes, I was trying to flush out who contacted the seller. As I told Paul last night, yes the seller maintains they never sold it. That is usually what happens when people don't want to send a message through eBay saying they sold offline. But even if they *did* keep it, having sent confirmations the night before is anyone going to sit there and think that maybe someone contacted them and either offered more and got it, or offered more/told them it was worth way more? Anything's possible, but as I've said multiple times this follows a pattern in now 3 significant finds in well under a year.
Yes Paul put me in a touch with someone selling their collecting three years ago. Paul also got some nice items from that collection as well as me trading a chunk of it as part of the payment for the Reeenk Roink I bought through him (for a sum way, way higher than this). I'm not sure what mentioning that has to do with anything outside of trying to call out that I had it already and/or diminish the whole thing, but we both ended up with stuff from that deal.
I was not trying to start a witch hunt which is why i said a few times for people not speculate and I that I was waiting to see if someone would come talk to me. I'm sorry people messaged Paul... was never the intent to have people go out of their way to message people. Was hoping this would have a more positive outcome in that someone might have the balls to contact me and say "Yeah I bought it" or "Yeah I think I blew it up" unlike the past times where I had to find out myself from the seller. Obviously that's never going to happen.
Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
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http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
That poor taste ended up with me being slighted, and when you start throwing out a thread like this one would you honestly expect people not to speculate whom you are referring to ? Wasn't that the intention ? Of course people are curious and will make up their own mind. Hence the witch hunt - the one being conducted on a sham and misinformation.
The thread wasn't done as you know from our chat last night ...I mentioned I would post today and now you act like its a surprise ? It's entirely natural for someone to want to throw their shine onto a subject when they have been wrongly framed into it.
I brought up our past collaborations purely to highlight that I've been more than helpful previously and now I'm being painted as public enemy number one.
I'm sure anyone selling on eBay is not doing it to help "a fellow fan", if you sell something on eBay for $1200 and someone offers you $2500 later I'm sure nobody would say "Oh no no no, I don't want a negative feedback on eBay" it's fucking eBay a negative feedback is well worth $1300 on top of the $1200! again I'm not saying is right, IT SUCKS donkey balls BUT if people wants charity, call Dave, a lot of times he sells some awesome stuff for incredible prices for a good cause, we all win when he sells something for the yellow ribbon. Doing business in the forum is one thing, I believe in the spirit of the community, I've see incredible acts of generosity and a few acts of despicable selfishness (ask all the people who indirectly begs for shit here all the time, they can get charity but when the beggar sells others have to pay what the market dictates, the hypocrisy is amazing).
Back to the reeenk issue... then I read the seller is still in possession of it... WTF? I'm sure the seller will put it again for sale for way more than $1200, so all the witch hunt was a sad act of pettiness and lack of self-awareness, maybe the seller realized he had something way too valuable to let it go, I'm sure he got a shit ton of messages AFTER the sell was done, it happened to some of us, it happened to me for sure, I'm sure the seller was "why people keep sending me message after message after the item is sold?", "yes buddy you have a huge diamond and didn't know it, and because if yours you'r entitled to keep it if you have second thoughts"... again I know it was shitty I can't stretch that enough, and there are no excuses but then I read Paul's message... aaand BANG another WTF? Paul has been indirectly blamed for this?... The real victim here is Paul no Josh, I'm sure Josh will move on in a better position than before with lots of people rooting for him (is not like he lost something he didn't have 2 already), BUT from all the people in the world some of you decided it was Paul... For fucks sake, if someone was and still is instrumental for the goodwill and charitable side of the forum is Paul, but in at the same time Paul is not bound to be Mother Theresa, if he wants to make money he is entitled to if he wants to be charitable same thing, fuck off all whom points fingers but lack self awareness.
To finish and move on, the other side of the witch hunt... A LOT of people would buy shit from Hitler here if he was selling something everyone wants, "hey guys this grey guy Adolf is selling his Benny for $250, such a great guy, no? lots of people have been called out for being assholes here and then they return to flip shit and people post on their threads to call them "great fellow fans" for hooking people up at good prices "fuck the flippers", and that is Ok too, but remember how futile witch hunts are.
TLDR
eBay sucks.
With hunts are futile.
And to some people, get a fucking life.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
I didn't start the thread here but I had hoped it would help get the person who either bought it or blew it up to contact me. Obviously that was a stupid thought. I am sorry it led to anyone contacting anyone else about this - no one should have messaged anyone else about this as it wasn't their transaction and . That was never the intent... the hope was that someone would get in touch about it. Obviously that's not going to happen. And clearly there are issues from before this sale that have led to me being more sensitive to things going south after the fact, and I've been clear I do not want to get into any of that on here, so I will keep it at that.
Are you seriously suggesting you weren't pointing the finger, you weren't suggesting you categorically knew who the buyer was and didn't play on that to gain mass support here?
The vitriol exhibited in those first few pages is completely at odds to the stance you are trying to purvey now. Tell me hand on heart once you've re read your earlier comments that you genuinely never expected people to second guess and Speculate whom you were point blank accusing ?
I did not say the buyer told me who it was that either bought/contacted/etc - if they had this would've been a whole lot easier. I didn't start this thread and I wish I had stayed away from it. When you've gone through these things a few times recently it's easy to get pissed, but no matter who was involved in those or what might've been said about you to other collectors it's entirely stupid to carry that baggage anywhere. I'll likely never get confirmation who did it, and that point I should've just kept my mouth shut.
So obviously my thought that maybe the person would come talk to me was stupid... no one was going to talk about it and to try and push that button here was in turn dumb as well considering what it led to.
Mostly because I was wondering how the pig lamb boy Vancouver poster selling had generated 5 pages.
If anyone is interested in pig lamb boy... I've got it. But I'll tell you right now... if I accept your offer of $7 (Expresso Beans average) and someone offers me $12... I'm taking the $12.
For what it's worth Paul, here is at least one person who didn't consider you a suspect for a second, lol. I thought it was strange that someone suggested they thought they knew who it was just by reading this thread, because I read the whole thing and never saw anything that could have been considered strong enough info to make any assumption at all. The people who accused you or suspected you should be ashamed of themselves.
I still think that shady sellers and buyers should be outted so that we are an informed community. Being cryptic about such people always leads to this kind of thing.
I was probably the first to speculate about market manipulation. It is something that does happen. Perhaps not in this community, perhaps not with PJ merch, but it is a real thing. There are people, from collectors to penny stock traders, who absolutely manipulate the market of a scarce commodity in order to affect price (either up or down). So your question about sniffing, or about whether people here think before logging in seems more like lashing out. I can understand why, given that you feel you were targeted. Again, I just wanted to state that I in no way targeted my post to any specific individual, since I am not so much a collector. More of a consumer. I buy PJ items, but generally to use (hang posters, wear t-shirts, listen to vinyl, etc...) I couldn't imagine why I'd have any interest in a burned CD=R, or a sheep, or a sticker that cost me more than $1, or a $500 zippo, or any number of things that people seem to get excited about here. So while you may think I was irrational for suspecting that someone (not you, not necessarily anyone here) might manipulate the market price of a scarce commodity, I would in turn think it is irrational for someone to spend >$1k for a CD, or a record that will never be opened. I guess we all have to reconcile our irrationality. Anyway, just wanted to highlight that not everyone who posted in this thread was on a witch hunt, or targeted you. I certainly did not. Again, I think you have done some amazing things for the community, appreciate the expertise you and others bring when answering questions about the authenticity of items, and admire many of the things in your collection that represent the history of this great band we all love. Sorry if I contributed to your anger, it honestly wasn't intentional, as we have had no past interaction that I recall. I'm glad you spoke up and brought some perspective to the thread.
It was meant to show the PJ world a cool item and not for people to bicker.
Sorry to everyone especially Paul. Had I known that this thread would have derailed I never would have posted it.
Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
Next: ??
http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
This was pretty ugly all around.
Good read tho, a real page turner! Always love a good conspiracy.
Last: SEA2 08/10/2018
Next: ??
http://expressobeans.com/members/collections.php?id=29417
“I think you won, but I enjoyed the fight” - EV
True story.
"Me knowing the truth, I can not concur."
1996: Toronto - 1998: Chicago, Montreal, Barrie - 2000: Montreal, Toronto - 2002: Seattle X2 (Key Arena) - 2003: Cleveland, Buffalo, Toronto, Montreal, Seattle (Benaroya Hall) - 2004: Reading, Toledo, Grand Rapids - 2005: Kitchener, London, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto, Quebec City - 2006: Toronto X2, Albany, Hartford, Grand Rapids, Cleveland - 2007: Chicago (Vic Theatre) - 2008: NYC X2, Hartford, Mansfield X2 - 2009: Toronto, Chicago X2, Seattle X2, Philadelphia X4 - 2010: Columbus, Noblesville, Cleveland, Buffalo, Hartford - 2011: Montreal, Toronto X2, Ottawa, Hamilton - 2012: Missoula - 2013: London, Chicago, Buffalo, Hartford - 2014: Detroit, Moline - 2015: NYC (Global Citizen Festival) - 2016: Greenville, Toronto X2, Chicago 1 - 2017: Brooklyn (RRHOF Induction) - 2018: Chicago 1, Boston 1 - 2022: Fresno, Ottawa, Hamilton, Toronto, NYC, Camden - 2023: St. Paul X2, Austin X2 - 2024: Vancouver X2, Portland, Sacramento, Missoula, Noblesville, Philadelphia X2, Baltimore - 2025: Hollywood X2, Nashville X2, Pittsburgh X2
I understand collecting but am really happy I stopped buying 95% of items that weren't related to shows. The only way I would pay 1,200 for a cd would be to sell it for 2,000 later. I am not ashamed to say it.
United Center Chicago IL 2003...Alpine Valley East Troy WI 2003...Toledo OH 2004...Marcus Amphitheater Milwaukee WI 2006
United Center Chicago IL Nite 1 2008...United Center Chicago IL Nite 2 2008...United Center Chicago IL Nite 1 2009
PJ20 East Troy WI Nite 1 2011...PJ20 East Troy WI Nite 2 2011...Wrigley Field Chicago IL 2013...iWireless Center Moline IL 2014
Bradley Center Milwaukee WI 2014...EV Auditorium Theatre Chicago IL Nite 1 2008...EV Chicago Theatre Chicago IL Nite 1 2011
EV w/ PT celebrating the Who Rosemont Theatre Rosemont IL 2015