People Who Say Pets "are like my children"

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

hedonist said:

Smellyman said:

One of my dogs is my avatar. She died 5 years ago and I still mourn and it still hurts.

Have a little empathy, something humans are supposed to have, for people who mourn for their dogs, "like they were their own kids".

don't be a dick.

He wasn't being dickish at all to me, more like floored at that perspective. Like I mentioned earlier, it's very personal and so subjective. I'll never forget the pain and grief when we euthanized our cat over eight years ago. The loss stays with you.

I just can't imagine the pain of losing a child being less or the same as losing a beloved animal.

For sure it is not the same.. The dog you know will be loyal and loving.. The kid is a scary prospect! You can put all the love and attention in the WORLD into that kid, and it could still become a serial killer.. Period!

with all things being equal, there are FAR more dogs who were at one time loving and loyal that would bite their loving owner than people who become serial killers. your statement to the contrary is just not based in any type of reality. just fear.

hedonist

brianlux said:

hedonist said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

brianlux said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I am absolutely flabbergasted at the vitriol being spewed here. people are applauding someone who unapologetically states that every human on the face of the planet is a piece of shit???

and dogs are loyal you say? really? NO SHIT. they are trained slaves owned by you. they are obedient to you. if you want to surround yourself with only beings that are subservient to you, that says more about you than it does about the rest of the humans that surround you.

Surprised to hear you say this, Hugh. For the most part, the AMT forum has been mostly filled with vitriol being spewed for quite some time and especially for the last several weeks. Your own posts in this thread come across as vitriol- go back and read them. And I don't mean to single you out. We all have our hands in this. This place is a wreck.

no vitriol from me, brian. just utter shock.

That's the sense I've taken from this. I see some of the views differently, disagree based on...well, based on myself, my experiences and conscience - doesn't mean those other views are discounted. They're as valid as the counter - and as such, entitled to speak to them.

And B - this place isn't a wreck (at least to me...what makes you think so?). It's chugging along pretty well, and there've been some interesting discussions here lately. People can (should) argue their points without it being seen as a communication breakdown.

If anything, the opposite.

I guess it depends on if you want to come here to argue or debate. Personally, I prefer discussion or debate vs arguing. To my way of seeing things, there is far more arguing, put downs, some bullying and teaming up, some bating/trolling and good deal of vitriolic haranguing than there is discussion or debate. Am I the only one here who sees it that way and is it possible that others who see it that way just aren't present here anymore?

I don't want to derail Hugh's thread but will say this - I took a fair load of shit from someone "who isn't present here anymore" - tried my best to respond with a level head, never was warned by the mods about my posts. I think some mis-take disagreements for vitriol...? There can be passion without it becoming personal, as I've seen from so very many here. That's what I value and take in more than the occasional snark.

(as to bullying? I haven't seen that here in the sense I view the term)

whispering hands

hedonist said:

whispering hands said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm simply stunned.

This forum lights its hair on fire when a cop kills a man that has tried to flee, fought with him, and tasered him with the taser he stole from him.

* By the way... two more cops shot to death in Mississippi, bringing the death toll for officers to 51 this year. No outrage there though. Geezuz Christ.

Now this forum says kids and people aren't special and there's too many of us anyways.

Sorry people... my son and daughter are special. They are the most important people on this planet from my perspective. If you consider a dog or cat's life more valuable than theirs... then you are not okay in my books. At all.

And people talk of how awful we are and how we are destroying the planet: did you drive today? Did you buy any food that wasn't grown locally? Do you have leather shoes that weren't made from the deer you shot with an arrow in the fall? Did you turn on a light? Thought not. It's not everybody else, so if you want to talk the talk... you should walk the walk. Otherwise, you come across as a fashionable environmentalist.

Actually until I got sick, yes I hunted for my food, and yes I use the leather for clothing and such.. Trust me going to the grocery store grosses me the fuck out.. That kind of greed is just maddening! And I walk everywhere now.. So???

WH, how is my picking up some apples, toilet paper, pork chops, milk and (those damned expensive) razors from the market greedy?

I'm speaking of commercial meats and paper products.. We over produce that shit Emasse! So there are hundreds of thousands of trees cut down.. Do you realize it takes 23 trees to makeONE sheet of the ver cheapest TP?? ( granted the rest of the tree IS used for lumber, saps, etc) ONE SHEET!! And the commercial meats.. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of grocery stores... They ALLLLLL sell meat, half of which we dispose of at the end of the week; in the name of choosing prime cuts. That means billions of cows, goats, chickens, pigs, and sheep
Died because of selection and choice. They didn't even get sacrificed for food.. Their asses get thrown in garbage cans, because it wasn't the 'cut' or selection some human, that doesn't even realize it, is concerned with what 'looks' best, versus the fact that all meat is the same!

When I lived on farms, we didn't look at the meat we had and say, nah, doesn't look good enough, we are what we had!! Period. And I know many people don't think about this shut, cause it's an invonvenience, but really those animals whose ass you see at the store pretty much died for nothing.. Which was why I had started hunting 20 years ago. Then I KNEW that I was not responsible for any of that greed. Paper products, I buy that shit recycled. It just kills me to know we destroy our home for creature comforts.. I am seriously considering living off grid.. It would be way better than this! ( at least on a conscience level).

Last-12-Exit

"Off the grid?" What would that mean you are giving up? Your electricity? Phone? Computer? Internet access? Car?

All that because a guy values a human life over one of an animal?

I love being on the grid. Life would suck off of it.

hedonist

whispering hands said:

I'm speaking of commercial meats and paper products.. We over produce that shit Emasse! So there are hundreds of thousands of trees cut down.. Do you realize it takes 23 trees to makeONE sheet of the ver cheapest TP?? ( granted the rest of the tree IS used for lumber, saps, etc) ONE SHEET!! And the commercial meats.. There are hundreds of thousands if not millions of grocery stores... They ALLLLLL sell meat, half of which we dispose of at the end of the week; in the name of choosing prime cuts. That means billions of cows, goats, chickens, pigs, and sheep
Died because of selection and choice. They didn't even get sacrificed for food.. Their asses get thrown in garbage cans, because it wasn't the 'cut' or selection some human, that doesn't even realize it, is concerned with what 'looks' best, versus the fact that all meat is the same!

When I lived on farms, we didn't look at the meat we had and say, nah, doesn't look good enough, we are what we had!! Period. And I know many people don't think about this shut, cause it's an invonvenience, but really those animals whose ass you see at the store pretty much died for nothing.. Which was why I had started hunting 20 years ago. Then I KNEW that I was not responsible for any of that greed. Paper products, I buy that shit recycled. It just kills me to know we destroy our home for creature comforts.. I am seriously considering living off grid.. It would be way better than this! ( at least on a conscience level).

As to the TP number (doesn't make sense!), I just did a quick search, and even the Sierra Club's estimate is way WAY beyond the number quoted.

By the way, I'm happy to use recycled TP. Just want something gentle to wipe my butt with, for chrissakes!

whispering hands

Last-12-Exit said:

"Off the grid?" What would that mean you are giving up? Your electricity? Phone? Computer? Internet access? Car?

All that because a guy values a human life over one of an animal?

I love being on the grid. Life would suck off of it.

Lmao you misunderstood. I have been considering living off grid for YEARS!
And yes, you can live very well without any of those silly things.. The only reason I can't is because my illness requires constant monitoring, and yes my whole family hates going to the grocery store with me, because then they have to hear about this stuff! Don't think you guys are the only ones having to hear it. As I have said MANY times.. What you read here is what you get when you meet me in real life. There's no fake in my cake so to speak.

And I owe ya'll a small apology. Not EVERY human is a POS. But from what I have seen in life, 99.99999999909999to infinity... % of the population is.. Just a fact that I have noticed.

HOWEVER.. This place.. ( NOT AMT, often this subforum
Proves that percentage), these forums rekindles that tiny spark of possibilities that I once had as a TODDLER.. That maybe there were good people in the world somewhere.. Then as I got older I thought, well maybe it's just California that's fucked up.. Then I left home and realized, nope evil is everywhere. But then I found this place online. And to be honest, anyone whom is still here from the old Synergy days, knows, that it was WAYYYYYY worse then, than now.. But I reized that people were WORSE when hiding behind a screen..( yes I was HORRIBLY AT FAULT THERE..) it took knowing I'd brought on someone taking their own life to realize I was evil in my
Own way too. But then I began to see something I had never before witnessed in the real world, online here. ( this website) People that had never MET each other were helping each other out! And then it grew into PJ.com, and this place was. Born into what it is now, and I continue to see this.. Is it any easier to grasp now?? No. But you have seen the worst of humans your whole life, this reality doesn't sink in all too quickly. So yeah my go to answer is fuck humans.. But like I said earlier, I AM working fervently to change that. I figure if Jesus can love ME.. One of the greatest offenders, then I should try to love you guys ( humans as a whole). So I
Am trying, I just don't have much to work with, as I haven't met many decent humans in my lifetime.

whispering hands

Although I did finally get to meet Callen in '13, and they too are just what you see here, straight up, straight forward, and real! Which is why I admire that person.. We may not agree, but you be you and I'll be me. I love that about Callen!

hedonist

My last off-topic post here - sorry, Hugh.

The old Synergy forum was a much smaller and tight-knit community. Can't say it was worse (or better), but I didn't see half the stuff then that I do now (interaction-wise).

Drowned Out

23 trees for one sheet of TP? I've been wrong before, and I have never looked into this...but I'm calling bullshit.

This thread is funny.

If anyone could turn their back on a crying child standing in a burning building, then turn and say 'come here mr.cuddles the cat, you first!'...well.... I think there is some grandstanding going on there.....so I won't state my opinion on that.

I actually had a housefire when I was in my teens. I had a dog and a bird at the time. Got the dog when I was 8 - loved it like no other creature in the world, save maybe my immediate family. The bird died.....and to be honest, I didn't even think of the dog until I was the fuck out of the house I got him out no problem, but I felt guilty about not thinking of him until my sister and I were safe....would I have forgotten about another PERSON being in the house, for even that split second? hell no!
The bird? Well....never really bonded with the bird - it was my sister's. Sitting here now, thinking of what it went thru....I am not all that moved, to be honest. But I could sit here and focus on what someone else's kid, a stranger, who died in a fire went thru, and bring myself to tears over it. Does that make me a bad person? Just another typical selfish human? Sorry, but I don't think so.
The degree to which supposed 'animal lovers' put themselves above people who don't operate on the same wavelength annoys me. Dated a vegan once, never again. Most judgmental person I've ever met.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

whispering hands said:

Thirty Bills Unpaid said:

I'm simply stunned.

This forum lights its hair on fire when a cop kills a man that has tried to flee, fought with him, and tasered him with the taser he stole from him.

* By the way... two more cops shot to death in Mississippi, bringing the death toll for officers to 51 this year. No outrage there though. Geezuz Christ.

Now this forum says kids and people aren't special and there's too many of us anyways.

Sorry people... my son and daughter are special. They are the most important people on this planet from my perspective. If you consider a dog or cat's life more valuable than theirs... then you are not okay in my books. At all.

And people talk of how awful we are and how we are destroying the planet: did you drive today? Did you buy any food that wasn't grown locally? Do you have leather shoes that weren't made from the deer you shot with an arrow in the fall? Did you turn on a light? Thought not. It's not everybody else, so if you want to talk the talk... you should walk the walk. Otherwise, you come across as a fashionable environmentalist.

Actually until I got sick, yes I hunted for my food, and yes I use the leather for clothing and such.. Trust me going to the grocery store grosses me the fuck out.. That kind of greed is just maddening! And I walk everywhere now.. So???

Yah. Sure.

And a solar panel powers your computer?

You contribute to all the things you seem to complain about. Stop pointing fingers.

whispering hands

HughFreakingDillon said:

I am absolutely flabbergasted at the vitriol being spewed here. people are applauding someone who unapologetically states that every human on the face of the planet is a piece of shit???

and dogs are loyal you say? really? NO SHIT. they are trained slaves owned by you. they are obedient to you. if you want to surround yourself with only beings that are subservient to you, that says more about you than it does about the rest of the humans that surround you.

Actually if you look into the history of dogs, Wolves got lazy.. Plain and simple.. The weakest of the packs began to follow humans, to make good on the bits and pieces of our throw away. Eventually we depended on them as much as the did so upon us. And no they are not slaves. They are natural followers, they seek leadership, that is in inborne instinct that will never go away! It is IN their DNA. I have worked with dogs and wolves for over 25 years now, and in all that time I have run into only THREE true Alpha personalities. Only 3 out of thousands. And of those, not one was in the wolf packs! The three I dealt with were DOGS.. Which in all respects is odd. But it just goes to show you, loyalty is IN A DOG'S DNA.. Period. It's faceted in there. They are loyal to the 'survival of the pack as a whole', not YOU specifically. As a human you are to be the leader, period, if you don't the dog will, plain and simple. It amazes me how many people look at their dogs as master slave sets.. There are just as many of THOSE people as the ones who think their dogs are equal to a child. ANY HUMAN INTHE HOUSEHOLD leads. Period. These days, it's not as simple as back in the days when lesser wolves chose to live as one with our packs.. Now we purchase dogs, we choose them.. I however stick to the letting the animal choose me. Which is why I don't have any dogs right now, well that and I can't afford to care for it proper at the moment.. But the cat, picked me.. I liked at seven kitties that day, went home, and my current kitty washed up on my doorstep, mid flood.. He accepted we had dogs, and made himself right at home! I took him t the vet to check for an owner, nothing.. Turned hkm into the shktrr for chance two for the possible owner, nothing.. So I Took him home.. I do the same with dogs and horses when I share my life with them. It's not entirely MY choice, which makes me love them all the more! So when a dog exhibits loyalty, it is because it is a survival instinct seen into their very being.. You can't train a dog to be loyal.. You don't have to. They just are. A dog is no lore a shave than your kids.. However, unlike your kids.. The dog's loyalty never dissipates, it is never swayed, and it never lies with anyone other than its lack.. Which includes your kids.. Not even you can say the same for the kids.. Because humans are able to think in suspended time.. Meaning we are able to think of events that haven't even occurred yet. In essence suspended time is how we develop the ability to worry.. Worry equals doubt, doubt causes unrest, unrest causes split decision, that causes disloyalty at tomes.. You NEVER suffer that with a dog.

whispering hands

And honestly, if you are so 'offended' by my original
Post.. Harsh as that truth is.. Perhaps you are feeling a bit guilty of something I said in there?? Why else would my opinion offend you? Note.. The key word there is OPINION. In human psychology, I learned that offense is often borne of guilt.. Something to consider... Unlike most of you here, I developed this opinion because I only saw the shittiest of people growing up.. There was no reprieve. I didn't meet my first 'good ' human til I was 9. By four years old I had severe anger issues, I went to kindergarten ONE fucking day.... And they discovered that I had issues when I ripped a girl's braids off her head and then gave them
Back to her.. That doesn't just HAPPEN..., that happened because by that age I'd gone through so much shit with other people that I learned to 'defend' myself, in the most brutal and effective way possible... The poor teachers had no clue how to deal with that.. When I got to the hospital, ( yes a mental hospital) they saw the cuts and bruises my own mother and her new found lover had inflicted.. Some of which required stitches.. All of which are still scars/ reminders on my arms. I spent three years in the hell of foster care, where I suffered even worse abuses, which also left scars, just in places you can't see on first glance, I CAN'T EVER have kids, because of the damage. My life was pretty much stolen from me before I ever got a chance to live it.. So there is a REASON behind my anger, what's the REASON behind your offense??

hedonist

oftenreading said:

The homeless people with pets that I know care very deeply for their pets, which is often why they are homeless - very few rental units take pets, particularly dogs, so many people choose to live homeless with their pets than give them up and get housed. If you have a pet and lose your housing, you're in trouble. By and large I don't think the dogs care much about living outside, as long as they are with their owners. It isn't all about trying to get your sympathy.

I'm home today, currently watching Pit Bulls & Parolees. A homeless woman living with her dog in an abandoned hotel courtesy of Katrina had to go to the hospital. The crew went there, saw she had set up food and water for him - in fact, she refused to accept assistance with her health until she knew her dog was being taken care of.

Hell, if anyone's read or heard of Cesar Millan's story knows how he too was on that road.

And WH, as you have your reasons for where you stand, so do others. No one is more justified than anyone else.

We all got scars.

HughFreakingDillon

whispering hands said:

And honestly, if you are so 'offended' by my original
Post.. Harsh as that truth is.. Perhaps you are feeling a bit guilty of something I said in there?? Why else would my opinion offend you? Note.. The key word there is OPINION. In human psychology, I learned that offense is often borne of guilt.. Something to consider... Unlike most of you here, I developed this opinion because I only saw the shittiest of people growing up.. There was no reprieve. I didn't meet my first 'good ' human til I was 9. By four years old I had severe anger issues, I went to kindergarten ONE fucking day.... And they discovered that I had issues when I ripped a girl's braids off her head and then gave them
Back to her.. That doesn't just HAPPEN..., that happened because by that age I'd gone through so much shit with other people that I learned to 'defend' myself, in the most brutal and effective way possible... The poor teachers had no clue how to deal with that.. When I got to the hospital, ( yes a mental hospital) they saw the cuts and bruises my own mother and her new found lover had inflicted.. Some of which required stitches.. All of which are still scars/ reminders on my arms. I spent three years in the hell of foster care, where I suffered even worse abuses, which also left scars, just in places you can't see on first glance, I CAN'T EVER have kids, because of the damage. My life was pretty much stolen from me before I ever got a chance to live it.. So there is a REASON behind my anger, what's the REASON behind your offense??

so by that psychology 101 blanket reasoning, if I find racism offensive, it's because I'm guilty of it too? really?

your personal experiences aren't necessarily transferrable to every other person's thought processes and how they deal with things. seriously. just because you've been through shit, doesn't make you the high authority on why others react to things the way they do.

the reason behind my original offence is as originally stated. I love animals. I love kids. someone telling me their animals are "equal" to my children tends to offend me as a parent feeling defensive of my children. it's pretty basic. nothing too deep about it. as said before, that's like me saying my goldfish is equal to your dog. it's all relative.

the reason behind my offense to your statement that if you saw a human burning alive alongside a dog, that you'd save the dog, I can honestly say that it goes without saying. I really have a hard time believing you are asking me to justify or explain my issue with that. I tend to interalize things and my first thought was of my daughter in a burning building with a dog, and you saving the dog. it infuriated me that someone could be so incredibly apathetic to human life. it, to be honest, disgusts me that a person has that thought process.

whispering hands

HughFreakingDillon said:

whispering hands said:

And honestly, if you are so 'offended' by my original
Post.. Harsh as that truth is.. Perhaps you are feeling a bit guilty of something I said in there?? Why else would my opinion offend you? Note.. The key word there is OPINION. In human psychology, I learned that offense is often borne of guilt.. Something to consider... Unlike most of you here, I developed this opinion because I only saw the shittiest of people growing up.. There was no reprieve. I didn't meet my first 'good ' human til I was 9. By four years old I had severe anger issues, I went to kindergarten ONE fucking day.... And they discovered that I had issues when I ripped a girl's braids off her head and then gave them
Back to her.. That doesn't just HAPPEN..., that happened because by that age I'd gone through so much shit with other people that I learned to 'defend' myself, in the most brutal and effective way possible... The poor teachers had no clue how to deal with that.. When I got to the hospital, ( yes a mental hospital) they saw the cuts and bruises my own mother and her new found lover had inflicted.. Some of which required stitches.. All of which are still scars/ reminders on my arms. I spent three years in the hell of foster care, where I suffered even worse abuses, which also left scars, just in places you can't see on first glance, I CAN'T EVER have kids, because of the damage. My life was pretty much stolen from me before I ever got a chance to live it.. So there is a REASON behind my anger, what's the REASON behind your offense??

so by that psychology 101 blanket reasoning, if I find racism offensive, it's because I'm guilty of it too? really?

your personal experiences aren't necessarily transferrable to every other person's thought processes and how they deal with things. seriously. just because you've been through shit, doesn't make you the high authority on why others react to things the way they do.

the reason behind my original offence is as originally stated. I love animals. I love kids. someone telling me their animals are "equal" to my children tends to offend me as a parent feeling defensive of my children. it's pretty basic. nothing too deep about it. as said before, that's like me saying my goldfish is equal to your dog. it's all relative.

the reason behind my offense to your statement that if you saw a human burning alive alongside a dog, that you'd save the dog, I can honestly say that it goes without saying. I really have a hard time believing you are asking me to justify or explain my issue with that. I tend to interalize things and my first thought was of my daughter in a burning building with a dog, and you saving the dog. it infuriated me that someone could be so incredibly apathetic to human life. it, to be honest, disgusts me that a person has that thought process.

It disgusts me that humans gave anyone a reason to arrive at that conclusion.

Last-12-Exit

I really don't think that humans NEED dogs. At all. Unless you are competing in the Iditarod. (Spelling?).

whispering hands

Here's the thing. Your kid will always, only be special to YOU. You are the only one that thinks your kid deserves greater affections than anything else. Only YOU think that about your kid. And honestly, I find that laughable.. Apathetic?? Yes. And with good reason. What has your daughter ever done that I should choose her over her dog? What has she ever done to prove she's more important to anyone other than YOU, or her mother?? Now as I stated before, kids have a small window of reprieve with me, because they haven't learned to be fucked up yet.... So in that instance yes, I'd save the kid first.. IN THE HOPES that the kid makes good life decisions and turns out to actually BE one of one billionth the population, and becomes a great human being. As for my personal experiences, that was stated to support the reason behind why I hate humans so deeply.. Apathetic?? Fuck yeah.. I have very very very rarely been given a reason to be sympathetic. Your kid isn't all that special to anyone but you.. I have NO good reason to favor her, period.

PJfanwillneverleave1

My head hurts.

edit - note to self don't post in AMT during working hours ever again

hedonist

WH, sorry...I just can't get my head around your hating humans so deeply. I can see you despising those who fucked with you, but to extend that to people in general? I'm thankful I'm not on board with that. Good hearts and souls abound - whether they outnumber assholes or not takes nothing away from them, and their impact.

I'd kill to protect my niece and nephew, not to mention my husband. They're no longer children but are not sullied in my eyes simply by virtue of their now being adults. How can there be an age cut-off?

Again - no children of my own - but I respect and understand parents' fierce love and sense of protection over those they love.

hedonist

PJfanwillneverleave1 said:

My head hurts.

edit - note to self don't post in AMT during working hours ever again

Sorry, man...whether or not you stand by your convictions (and whether or not made during work hours), expect to be called on them. We're all in that boat.