To (say) Thug or to not (say) Thug, that is my ?

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Comments

  • callencallen Posts: 6,388
    edited May 2015
    JimmyV said:

    So...this is all a Fox News thing? Fox News uses thug in place of the n-word? This is what is being argued?

    Agree no. Not just a Fox thing.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    callen said:

    callen said:

    Some people use the word thug as a unique description for young black males that dress a certain way. They substitute the n word for it.

    all that use this word don't use in this context.

    Who are these people you are accusing here of being racist? If you did hear them say thug, did they tell you they were using thug as a replacement?
    It's very obvious as part of the context of it being used. Do you dispute that people don't use thug as substitute for n word? Do you dispute that when some people talk of thugs that it's directed at certain demographic? Not you but some.

    And read my last line post you quoted. I've used thug in literal definition. Actually only way.

    My comment on Fox viewers is unrelated to this post. Just pointing out the obvious.

    PS I should be able to just type the n word but........
    What I'm disputing is "some people." Who? Have you specifically heard thug get used as a replacement for the n word? If you've heard it on fox news, would you post a video of it happening?

    If it's an appropriate term to use by the black mayor of baltimore, why is it not appropriate for white people?
  • PJ_Soul said:

    This is the dumbest debate I have seen the media come up with in a long time.

    completely agree.

    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Why can't you guys just be honest about it the term " thug " is describing a black man it certainly is not describing a white male ...

    because it wouldn't be honest to say that. thug is defined as "violent criminal" or "brutal ruffian". that is not race-specific.

    the term was first known to be used in 1810.

    the mob used it as a term for the guys who would go rough people up. they were all mostly white. so if anything, it's a racist term against white people....possibly an ethnic slur against italians.

    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • it's interesting....as I was thinking of the word "thug" itself, the picture that is conjured up in my head is actually a WHITE criminal. I'm not saying that if the image in your mind is of a black person that makes you racist, as others have said, I believe it describes a certain behaviour, not a race.

    and what a criminal looks like in your mind is all in the context of your experiences.
    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • jeffbrjeffbr Posts: 7,177
    There are other words that are perfectly valid, acceptable words we use, that when used in a particular context can be racist. That doesn't mean we stop using that word. We just shouldn't use it in a racist context. Take for example "boy". I will not stop using boy to describe a young male, even though boy can certainly be used in a racist way when addressing an African American adult male. I personally would never use it in that context. Boy is not a racist word. Thug is not a racist word. Both can be used in racist ways. Both can also be used (and more commonly are) to describe something which has nothing to do with race.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    dignin said:

    JimmyV said:

    dignin said:

    JimmyV said:

    Anyone going to see Avengers this weekend will be treated to very white Captain America referring to a very white bad guy as a thug. I laughed out loud in the theater and people around me had no idea why.

    They must play movies early in Boston.

    If you can get the time off then 10am opening day is the way to go. No crazy crowds but the people who are there are eager. Highly recommend.

    I wish man, my life of leisure ended the moment my son was born. Maybe, someday I can enjoy a good movie at a theatre again. Glad to here the movie was good, I will watch it when it becomes available online....maybe ;)
    That's what Vudu,Pay per view and Netflix are for.If you have any energy left at the end of the day.
  • rr165892rr165892 Posts: 5,697
    jeffbr said:

    There are other words that are perfectly valid, acceptable words we use, that when used in a particular context can be racist. That doesn't mean we stop using that word. We just shouldn't use it in a racist context. Take for example "boy". I will not stop using boy to describe a young male, even though boy can certainly be used in a racist way when addressing an African American adult male. I personally would never use it in that context. Boy is not a racist word. Thug is not a racist word. Both can be used in racist ways. Both can also be used (and more commonly are) to describe something which has nothing to do with race.

    Great point.
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    rr165892 said:

    jeffbr said:

    There are other words that are perfectly valid, acceptable words we use, that when used in a particular context can be racist. That doesn't mean we stop using that word. We just shouldn't use it in a racist context. Take for example "boy". I will not stop using boy to describe a young male, even though boy can certainly be used in a racist way when addressing an African American adult male. I personally would never use it in that context. Boy is not a racist word. Thug is not a racist word. Both can be used in racist ways. Both can also be used (and more commonly are) to describe something which has nothing to do with race.

    Great point.
    Yeah, I've had a draft saved since yesterday trying to formulate similar thoughts but couldn't get it written succinctly. One of the things I like about this place - when I can't articulate an idea to my liking, someone else usually does.

  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    jeffbr said:

    There are other words that are perfectly valid, acceptable words we use, that when used in a particular context can be racist. That doesn't mean we stop using that word. We just shouldn't use it in a racist context. Take for example "boy". I will not stop using boy to describe a young male, even though boy can certainly be used in a racist way when addressing an African American adult male. I personally would never use it in that context. Boy is not a racist word. Thug is not a racist word. Both can be used in racist ways. Both can also be used (and more commonly are) to describe something which has nothing to do with race.

    Well said.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV said:



    jeffbr said:

    There are other words that are perfectly valid, acceptable words we use, that when used in a particular context can be racist. That doesn't mean we stop using that word. We just shouldn't use it in a racist context. Take for example "boy". I will not stop using boy to describe a young male, even though boy can certainly be used in a racist way when addressing an African American adult male. I personally would never use it in that context. Boy is not a racist word. Thug is not a racist word. Both can be used in racist ways. Both can also be used (and more commonly are) to describe something which has nothing to do with race.

    Well said.

    I was trying to think of another word for an example, but couldnt. Well said jeffbr.

    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    That's what I was getting at, but I didn't close at all lol
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited May 2015
    JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no. Meanwhile, white and black thugs alike continue to exhibit thug-like behavior.

    Definitely agree.
    Honestly, it's like calling the phrase "prisoner" racist because of the ethnic stats of those in prison in the USA. Yes, the numbers are disturbing in racial terms. Yes, it may point towards a real racism problem in the criminal justice system as well as wider society (i would personally agree with that theory). But that doesn't make the word "prisoner" a racist synonym for black people..... When you think about it, calling the word "thug" racist is what's racist..... (i think. I'm kind of drunk).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited May 2015

    it's interesting....as I was thinking of the word "thug" itself, the picture that is conjured up in my head is actually a WHITE criminal. I'm not saying that if the image in your mind is of a black person that makes you racist, as others have said, I believe it describes a certain behaviour, not a race.

    and what a criminal looks like in your mind is all in the context of your experiences.

    Again agree. I think "thug", and I have a white guy in my imagination, thinking of the typical thug. Some dick with a gold chain, lol.
    Really, men with big gold chains should be offended by the word thug, Har Har. ;)
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    PJ_Soul said:

    JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no. Meanwhile, white and black thugs alike continue to exhibit thug-like behavior.

    Definitely agree.
    Honestly, it's like calling the phrase "prisoner" racist because of the ethnic stats of those in prison in the USA. Yes, the numbers are disturbing in racial terms. Yes, it may point towards a real racism problem in the criminal justice system as well as wider society (i would personally agree with that theory). But that doesn't make the word "prisoner" a racist synonym for black people..... When you think about it, calling the word "thug" racist is what's racist..... (i think. I'm kind of drunk).
    Lots of good points made in this thread - even the semi-drunkish ones =)
  • PJfanwillneverleave1PJfanwillneverleave1 Posts: 12,885
    edited May 2015
    Read this book before.

    A small quote from the author (credit to wiki)

    Buford does not offer a conclusive explanation for why he thinks that this violence occurs. However, he does write,
    "I was surprised by what I found; moreover, because I came away with a knowledge that I had not possessed before, I was also grateful, and surprised by that as well. I had not expected the violence to be so pleasurable....This is, if you like, the answer to the hundred-dollar question: why do young males riot every Saturday? They do it for the same reason that another generation drank too much, or smoked dope, or took hallucinogenic drugs, or behaved badly or rebelliously. Violence is their antisocial kick, their mind-altering experience, an adrenaline-induced euphoria that might be all the more powerful because it is generated by the body itself, with, I was convinced, many of the same addictive qualities that characterize synthetically-produced drugs.[2]

    image
    Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    Why can't you guys just be honest about it the term " thug " is describing a black man it certainly is not describing a white male ...

    is that in wiki now "thug-young black male" sorry man but I have to disagree.
    and if that's what the NEW defination for thug it's self created racism in my opinion, meaning I can call myself a thug or thug life but a white person can't call me that ?

    Godfather.

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,567

    Why can't you guys just be honest about it the term " thug " is describing a black man it certainly is not describing a white male ...

    is that in wiki now "thug-young black male" sorry man but I have to disagree.
    and if that's what the NEW defination for thug it's self created racism in my opinion, meaning I can call myself a thug or thug life but a white person can't call me that ?

    Godfather.

    No I don't mean that I just meant that around these parts here in NY thug is usually meant to point out a black man , any one can be called a thug but most of the time I hear it its to describe a black man who's up to no good ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    Hahahahaha!

    Between you and Callen, I have no more hair by my temples.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845

    JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    Hahahahaha!

    Between you and Callen, I have no more hair by my temples.
    Good to hear I'm achieving at least one of my life's goals :wink: , and am delighted to be included in such august company with callen.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    I don't think I've ever seen the word "august" used in this way here. Well-done!
  • JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    Hahahahaha!

    Between you and Callen, I have no more hair by my temples.
    Good to hear I'm achieving at least one of my life's goals :wink: , and am delighted to be included in such august company with callen.
    Good thing i have given him a bit of a reprieve. Lol.

    new album "Cigarettes" out Spring 2025!

    www.headstonesband.com




  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504

    Why can't you guys just be honest about it the term " thug " is describing a black man it certainly is not describing a white male ...

    is that in wiki now "thug-young black male" sorry man but I have to disagree.
    and if that's what the NEW defination for thug it's self created racism in my opinion, meaning I can call myself a thug or thug life but a white person can't call me that ?

    Godfather.

    No I don't mean that I just meant that around these parts here in NY thug is usually meant to point out a black man , any one can be called a thug but most of the time I hear it its to describe a black man who's up to no good ...
    I just read an artical on this topic, a black woman was complaining about the word thug and black people being called thug, and it just made me think how it's not just the white people keeping racism alive, some and I quote SOME people are using any method they can to say I'm a poor neglicted black,brown white person and you need to give me what I want cause you owe it to me, a little self respect goes a long way but don't tell me I owe it to you.

    like the new Willy Nelson song says "the whoe world's going to pot" LOL!

    Godfather.

    btw; how many songs by white or brown artist do you hear that call themselfs or others white trash or brown trash or honkey or wetback in thier lyrics ?... not a lot that I know of, some I'm sure but as general rule not too damn many at all.


  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    hedonist said:

    I don't think I've ever seen the word "august" used in this way here. Well-done!

    Thanks, hedonist :blush: . I love words - we have such a huge variety of great words in the English language, not to mention the other languages, so why not use them! I often jump into the threads on word meanings even if I don't know much about the rest of the topic, which, for the sake of thread integrity, brings us back to the "thugs" discussion...
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    Hahahahaha!

    Between you and Callen, I have no more hair by my temples.
    Good to hear I'm achieving at least one of my life's goals :wink: , and am delighted to be included in such august company with callen.
    Good thing i have given him a bit of a reprieve. Lol.

    Toss RG in with you guys and its the grand slam for old Thirty!
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,336

    JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    Hahahahaha!

    Between you and Callen, I have no more hair by my temples.
    Good to hear I'm achieving at least one of my life's goals :wink: , and am delighted to be included in such august company with callen.
    Good thing i have given him a bit of a reprieve. Lol.

    Toss RG in with you guys and its the grand slam for old Thirty!
    Hey man.....I'm hurt.





    ;)

  • dignin said:

    JimmyV said:


    JimmyV said:

    rgambs said:

    I love how I presented irrefutable evidence to the contrary of the notion that 'thug' is reserved for black people and people not only chose to ignore it... they persist with their argument.

    In the event some are talking more than they are listening: Mayor Gregor Robertson publically denounced the large, predominantly white contingency of rioters in Vancouver as thugs.

    He did so because that is what these 'individuals-persisting-with-non-legal-activities' (would that satisfy some?) were- thugs.

    I don't think Vancouver is a great example at all. Canada simply doesn't have the same racial tensions that we do. If you find an example from the US please post it, I am not sure it hasn't happened, but you can bet your bottom dollar Fox News doesn't call any white people thugs.

    Even if they do occasionally, some of you are seriously blind if you don't see that there are people out there who are using thug as a new racist epithet. It happens, get over it. Thug is not a racist term, but it gets used as one, and that is plain truth, if you can't see that your eyes are closed.
    If Vancouver isn't a good example then neither is Fox News. Fox speaks to a certain audience only and that audience does not include you or I. Much like Richard Sherman, Fox doesn't get to decide what words mean, or define how they are used across society.

    I'm off to see the Avengers but I'm sure I'll check in later.
    The other part to this being that the Vancouver Stanley Cup riots happened in 2011 and we're talking about word usage in 2015. If we are talking about evolving usage, that's plenty of time for it.
    Plenty of time? Are you serious?

    4 years... and a common word is plucked from everyday vernacular and converted to succinctly depicting a group based on their race when engaged in the behaviors typically eliciting the descriptive term?

    What's the new term for 'white' thugs?

    No. No way.
    I"m not arguing for or against the validity of this usage, Thirty, I'm just saying that word meanings can change very quickly. How quickly did the word "tweet" come to commonly mean a post on twitter instead of the sound of a bird? Or go listen to any teenagers talk.
    "Tweet" is an example of taking an existing word and using it to name something that did not exist before. It didn't change the existing meaning of the word. Birds still tweet and chirp outside my window, Twitter or no.

    Yes, absolutely. Of course it's an example of taking an existing word and repurposing it; that's exactly what we're talking about. When word meanings change the old meaning is not suddenly incorrect, but becomes be less common usage. Kind of like how every adult on this board knows that the word "gay" was used for centuries to mean someone who was fun, bubbly, light-hearted; we could still use it in that way, but today when we say someone is gay we all know what we mean.

    And bear in mind that I'm not arguing for this new definition of thug; like PJ_Soul, I hadn't even heard of this until this thread and it all seems kind of odd. I just wanted to argue the point about 4 years with Thirty, because it's fun and he's wrong :smiley:
    Hahahahaha!

    Between you and Callen, I have no more hair by my temples.
    Good to hear I'm achieving at least one of my life's goals :wink: , and am delighted to be included in such august company with callen.
    Good thing i have given him a bit of a reprieve. Lol.

    Toss RG in with you guys and its the grand slam for old Thirty!
    Hey man.....I'm hurt.





    ;)

    Wait a second... I thought we established we were brothers?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    PJ_Soul said:

    :confused: ^^^ I don't understand the purpose of that post. Were you really not sure?

    It's like watching the 'News' when it involves some racist remark/word, and the reporter reports (for example) 'and he said the N WORD'...

    That's just pathetic,

    Like this whole thug thing,

    It's a word, they have meanings..they also have uses and we have (our own) intentions behind our use of words. (Mmmm)

    Calling someone a 'nigger'...Bad, (trust me, I know, people have called me Nigger many times, It really stings hearing it thrown at you as a child too)

    It is disgusting, the lack of Intelligence and understanding displayed by many people when it comes to the issue of race.

    Talk about 'race' and watch the emotions fly, the 'N word!' omg, he said the n word!

    You wanna have an open honest, progressive conversation about race? Stop being so emotional, ask questions, don't just freak out. blah blah blah

    Some people who are using 'thug', sure, some are using it as some coded language. 'thug'=nigger...nigger=black people.

    It's also the power we give a word...Like I really, needed to explain all this?
  • JimmyVJimmyV Posts: 19,172
    Idris said:

    PJ_Soul said:

    :confused: ^^^ I don't understand the purpose of that post. Were you really not sure?

    It's like watching the 'News' when it involves some racist remark/word, and the reporter reports (for example) 'and he said the N WORD'...

    That's just pathetic,

    Like this whole thug thing,

    It's a word, they have meanings..they also have uses and we have (our own) intentions behind our use of words. (Mmmm)

    Calling someone a 'nigger'...Bad, (trust me, I know, people have called me Nigger many times, It really stings hearing it thrown at you as a child too)

    It is disgusting, the lack of Intelligence and understanding displayed by many people when it comes to the issue of race.

    Talk about 'race' and watch the emotions fly, the 'N word!' omg, he said the n word!

    You wanna have an open honest, progressive conversation about race? Stop being so emotional, ask questions, don't just freak out. blah blah blah

    Some people who are using 'thug', sure, some are using it as some coded language. 'thug'=nigger...nigger=black people.

    It's also the power we give a word...Like I really, needed to explain all this?
    Yes. When you drop into a thread and post what you did - without any context at all - yes, you definitely needed to explain this.

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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