Meanwhile back in Israel

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1726818668032692505?t=wj4wkPFXUnFO5IL7U-D9RA&s=19

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1726980723427660054?t=ALNTCAKtaCNihrZU8BX1vQ&s=19

mickeyrat

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-21-2023-39f5ae0bdb4e32f0e69115aa43446132   Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says war against Hamas will not stop after cease-fire

 

Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says war against Hamas will not stop after cease-fire

By JOSEF FEDERMAN and JACK JEFFERY

7 mins ago

JERUSALEM (AP) — Israel and Hamas on Tuesday appeared close to a deal to temporarily halt their devastating six-week war for dozens of hostages being held in the Gaza Strip to be freed in exchange for Palestinians in Israeli prisons.

But as Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu convened his Cabinet for a vote, he vowed to resume the Israeli offensive against Hamas as soon as the truce ends.

“We are at war, and we will continue the war,” he said. “We will continue until we achieve all our goals.”

The Israeli Cabinet was expected to vote on a plan that would halt Israel’s offensive in Gaza for several days in exchange for the release of about 50 of the 240 hostages held by Hamas. Israel has vowed to continue the war until it destroys Hamas’ military capabilities and returns all hostages.

Hamas predicted a Qatari-mediated deal could be reached in “the coming hours.”

Netanyahu acknowledged that the Cabinet faced a tough decision, but supporting the cease-fire was the right thing to do. Netanyahu appeared to have enough support to pass the measure, despite opposition from some hard-line ministers.

---

ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR

Live updates | Netanyahu: War will continue after any temporary cease-fire

South African leader accuses Israel of war crimes. Putin and Xi strike more cautious note at meeting

Bahrain government websites briefly inaccessible after cyberattack over Israel-Hamas war

Israeli airstrikes on Lebanon kill 2 journalists for a pan-Arab TV channel, 4 Palestinian militants

Netanyahu said that during the lull, intelligence efforts will be maintained, allowing the army to prepare for the next stages of battle. He said the battle would continue until “Gaza will not threaten Israel.”

The announcement came as Israeli troops battled Palestinian militants in an urban refugee camp in northern Gaza and around hospitals overcrowded with patients and sheltering families.

Details of the expected cease-fire deal were not released. Israeli media reported that an agreement would include a five-day halt in Israel’s offensive in Gaza and the release of 50 hostages held by Hamas in exchange for some 150 Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

Israel’s Channel 12 TV said the first releases would take place Thursday or Friday and continue for several days.

Talks have repeatedly stalled. But even if a deal is reached, it would not mean an end to the war, which erupted on Oct. 7 after Hamas militants stormed across the border into southern Israel and killed at least 1,200 people, most of them civilians, and kidnapped some 240 others.

THE TOLL IN GAZA

In weeks of Israeli airstrikes and a ground invasion, more than 11,000 Palestinians have been killed, two-thirds of them women and minors, and more than 2,700 others are missing and believed to be buried under rubble, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry. The ministry says it has been unable to update its count since Nov. 11 because of the health sector’s collapse.

Gaza health officials say the toll has risen sharply since, and hospitals continue to report deaths from daily strikes, often dozens at a time.

The Health Ministry in the West Bank last reported a toll of 13,300 but stopped providing its own count Tuesday without giving a reason. Because of that, and because officials there declined to explain in detail how they tracked deaths after Nov. 11, the AP decided to stop reporting its count.

The Health Ministry toll does not differentiate between civilians and combatants. Israel says it has killed thousands of Hamas militants but has not provided evidence for its count.

In southern Lebanon, an Israeli strike killed two journalists with Al-Mayadeen TV, according to the Hezbollah-allied Pan-Arab network and Lebanese officials. There was no immediate comment from the Israeli military. A separate Israeli drone strike in Lebanon killed four Hamas members, a Palestinian official and a Lebanon security official said.

The Israeli military has been trading fire almost daily across the border with Lebanon’s Hezbollah group and Palestinian militants since the outbreak of the war.

TALKS ON HOSTAGES

Israel, the United States and Qatar, which mediates with Hamas, have negotiated for weeks over a hostage release that would be paired with a temporary cease-fire and the entry of more aid.

In Washington, President Joe Biden said Tuesday that a deal on releasing some hostages was “very close.”

"We could bring some of these hostages home very soon,” he said at the White House.

Qatar’s Foreign Ministry spokesman, Majed al-Ansari expressed optimism, telling reporters that “we are at the closest point we ever had been in reaching an agreement.” He added that negotiations were at a “critical and final stage.”

Izzat Rishq, a senior Hamas official, said Tuesday that an agreement could be reached “in the coming hours,” in which Hamas would release captives and Israel would release Palestinian prisoners. Hamas’ leader-in-exile, Ismail Haniyeh, also said they were close to a deal.

Israel’s Channel 12 TV, citing anonymous Israeli officials, said a truce could be extended and additional Palestinian prisoners released if there were additional hostages freed.

FIGHTING IN JABALIYA AND AROUND HOSPITALS

Inside Gaza, the front line of the war shifted to the Jabaliya refugee camp, a densely built district of concrete buildings near Gaza City that houses families displaced in the 1948 war surrounding Israel’s creation. Israel has bombarded the area for weeks, and the military said Hamas fighters have regrouped there and in other eastern districts after being pushed out of much of Gaza City.

The fighting in Jabaliya also affected two nearby hospitals, trapping hundreds of patients and displaced people sheltering inside. A strike Tuesday hit inside one of the facilities, al-Awda, killing four people, including three doctors, the hospital director told Al-Jazeera TV. The director, Ahmed Mahna, blamed the strike on Israel, a claim that AP could not independently confirm. The medical aid group Doctors Without Borders confirmed that two of the doctors killed worked for it.

Residents of Jabaliya said there was heavy fighting as Israeli forces tried to advance under the cover of airstrikes. “They are facing stiff resistance,” said Hamza Abu Mansour, a university student.

The Israeli military said strikes hit three tunnel shafts where fighters were hiding and destroyed rocket launchers. Footage released by the military showed Israeli soldiers patrolling on foot as gunfire echoed around them.

It was not possible to independently confirm details of the fighting.

It’s unclear how many Palestinian civilians remain in northern Gaza, but the U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees estimates that some 160,000 people are still in its shelters there, though it can no longer provide services. Thousands more still shelter in several hospitals in the north even after many fled south in recent weeks.

Most hospitals are no longer operational. The hospital situation in Gaza is “catastrophic,” Michael Ryan, a senior World Health Organization official, said Monday.

With Israeli troops surrounding the Indonesia Hospital, also near Jabaliya, staff had to bury 50 dead in the facility's courtyard, a senior Health Ministry official in the hospital, Munir al-Boursh, told Al-Jazeera TV.

Up to 600 wounded people and some 2,000 displaced Palestinians remain stranded at the hospital, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry.

A similar standoff played out in recent days at Shifa Hospital, Gaza’s largest, where over 250 patients and medical workers are stranded after the evacuation of 31 premature babies.

Israel has provided evidence in recent days of a militant presence at Shifa. But it has yet to substantiate its claims that Hamas had a major command center beneath the facility, allegations denied by Hamas and hospital staff.

DIRE CONDITIONS IN NORTH AND SOUTH

Most of Gaza's population of 2.3 million have crowded into the southern section of the Gaza Strip, where Israeli strikes have continued and where the military says it intends to extend its ground invasion. Many are packed into U.N.-run schools and other facilities across the territory’s south or sleeping on the streets outside, even as winter rains have pelted the coastal enclave in recent days.

There are shortages of food, water and fuel for generators across all of Gaza, which has had no central electricity for over a month.

Strikes overnight crushed residential buildings in the Nusseirat refugee camp in central Gaza, killing at least 20 people, according to hospital officials. Footage from the scene showed the legs of five young boys sticking out from under a collapsed concrete slab of one home.

Israel continues to strike what it says are militant targets throughout Gaza, often killing women and children. Israel accuses Hamas of using civilians as human shields.

___

Jeffery reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Wafaa Shurafa in Deir al-Balah, Gaza Strip; Samy Magdy in Cairo; and Melanie Lidman in Jerusalem contributed.

___

Full AP coverage at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war.

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/MeidasTouch/status/1727130476283085124?t=PNx3saRujo5aPUSrFebXtA&s=19

Halifax2TheMax

With more granular detail because facts are important. Now, please, tell us how Israel is innocent. And convince us that Israel is a true partner for peace. Seems Bibi has some blood on his hands, eh?

For 14 years, Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; the pogrom of October 7, 2023, helps the Israeli prime minister preserve his own rule

Much ink has been spilled describing the longtime relationship – rather, alliance – between Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas. And still, the very fact that there has been close cooperation between the Israeli prime minister (with the support of many on the right) and the fundamentalist organization seemingly evaporated from most of the current analyses – everyone’s talking about “failures,” “mistakes” and “contzeptziot” (fixed conceptions). Given this, there is a need not only to review the history of cooperation but also to conclude unequivocally: The pogrom of October 7, 2023, helps Netanyahu, and not for the first time, to preserve his rule, certainly in the short term.

The MO of Netanyahu’s policy since his return to the Prime Minister’s Office in 2009 has and continues to be, on the one hand, bolstering the rule of Hamas in the Gaza Strip, and, on the other, weakening the Palestinian Authority.

His return to power was accompanied by a complete turnaround from the policy of his predecessor, Ehud Olmert, who sought to end the conflict through a peace treaty with the most moderate Palestinian leader – PA President Mahmoud Abbas.

For the last 14 years, while implementing a divide-and-conquer policy vis-a-vis the West Bank and Gaza, “Abu Yair” (“Yair’s father,” in Arabic, as Netanyahu called himself while campaigning in the Arab community before one recent election) has resisted any attempt, military or diplomatic, that might bring an end to the Hamas regime.

In practice, since the Cast Lead operation in late 2008 and early 2009, during the Olmert era, Hamas’ rule has not faced any genuine military threat. On the contrary: The group has been supported by the Israeli prime minister, and funded with his assistance.

When Netanyahu declared in April 2019, as he has after every other round of fighting, that “we have restored deterrence with Hamas” and that “we have blocked the main supply routes,” he was lying through his teeth.

For over a decade, Netanyahu has lent a hand, in various ways, to the growing military and political power of Hamas. Netanyahu is the one who turned Hamas from a terror organization with few resources into a semi-state body.

Releasing Palestinian prisoners, allowing cash transfers, as the Qatari envoy comes and goes to Gaza as he pleases, agreeing to the import of a broad array of goods, construction materials in particular, with the knowledge that much of the material will be designated for terrorism and not for building civilian infrastructure, increasing the number of work permits in Israel for Palestinian workers from Gaza, and more. All these developments created symbiosis between the flowering of fundamentalist terrorism and preservation of Netanyahu’s rule.

Take note: It would be a mistake to assume that Netanyahu thought about the well-being of the poor and oppressed Gazans – who are also victims of Hamas – when allowing the transfer of funds (some of which, as noted, didn’t go to building infrastructure but rather military armament). His goal was to hurt Abbas and prevent division of the Land of Israel into two states.

It’s important to remember that without those funds from Qatar (and Iran), Hamas would not have had the money to maintain its reign of terror, and its regime would have been dependent on restraint.

In practice, the injection of cash (as opposed to bank deposits, which are far more accountable) from Qatar, a practice that Netanyahu supported and approved, has served to strengthen the military arm of Hamas since 2012.

Thus, Netanyahu indirectly funded Hamas after Abbas decided to stop providing it with funds that he knew would end up being used for terrorism against him, his policies and his people. It’s important not to ignore that Hamas used this money to buy the means through which Israelis have been murdered for years.

In parallel, from a security standpoint, since Operation Protective Edge in 2014, Netanyahu has been guided by a policy that almost completely ignored the terrorism of the rockets and the incendiary kites and balloons. Occasionally, the media has been exposed to a dog-and-pony show, when such weapons were captured, but not more than that.

It’s worth reminding that last year, the “government of change” (the short-lived coalition led by Naftali Bennett and Yair Lapid) exercised a different policy, one of whose expressions was the halting of funding for Hamas arriving via suitcases full of cash. When Netanyahu tweeted, on May 30, 2022, that “Hamas is interested in the existence of the weak Bennett government,” he was lying to the public. The government of change was a disaster for Hamas.

Netanyahu’s nightmare was the collapse of the Hamas regime – something that Israel could have expedited, albeit for a difficult price. One of the proofs for this claim was given during Operation Protective Edge.

At the time, Netanyahu leaked to the media the contents of a presentation that the military had made to the security cabinet laying out the potential repercussions of conquering Gaza. The premier knew that the secret document, which noted that occupying Gaza would cost the lives of hundreds of soldiers, would create an atmosphere of opposition to a widespread ground invasion.

In March 2019, Naftali Bennett told the Channel 13 program Hamakor: “Someone took care to leak that to the media to create an excuse for not taking action… it’s one of the gravest leaks in Israeli history.” Of course, the leak was not investigated, despite many demands from members of the Knesset. In closed-door conversations, Benny Gantz said then, when he was the IDF’s chief of staff, “Bibi leaked this.”

Let this sink in. Netanyahu leaked a “top secret” document in order to thwart the military and diplomatic position of the cabinet, which sought to defeat Hamas with various means. We should heed what Avigdor Lieberman told Yedioth Ahronoth, in an interview published just before the October 7 assault, that Netanyahu “continuously thwarted all the targeted assassinations.”

It should be stressed that Netanyahu’s policy of keeping Hamas in charge in Gaza didn’t find expression only through opposition to physical occupation of Gaza and to assassinations of key Hamas players, but also in his determination to thwart any political reconciliation between the PA – Fatah in particular – and Hamas. A prominent example is Netanyahu’s behavior in late 2017, when talks between Fatah and Hamas were actually taking place.

A fundamental disagreement between Abbas and Hamas concerned the question of the Islamist group’s military being subordinate to to the PA. Hamas agreed that the PA would return to running all civilian matters in Gaza but refused to yield its arms.

Egypt and the United States supported reconciliation and worked to achieve it. Netanyahu totally opposed the idea, asserting repeatedly that “reconciliation between Hamas and the PLO makes achieving peace harder.” Of course, Netanyahu didn’t pursue peace, which wasn’t on the agenda in any way back then. His position only served Hamas.

Over the years, from time to time, various figures on both sides of the political spectrum repeatedly pointed to the axis of cooperation between Netanyahu and Hamas. On the one hand, for example, Yuval Diskin, head of the Shin Bet security service from 2005 to 2011, told Yedioth Ahronoth in January 2013, “If we look at it over the years, one of the main people contributing to Hamas’s strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu, since his first term as prime minister.”

In August 2019, former prime minister Ehud Barak told Army Radio that people who believed that Netanyahu had no strategy were mistaken. “His strategy is to keep Hamas alive and kicking… even at the price of abandoning the citizens [of the south] … in order to weaken the PA in Ramallah.”

And former IDF chief of staff Gadi Eisenkot told Maariv in January 2022 that Netanyahu acted “in total opposition to the national assessment of the National Security Council, which determined that there was a need to disconnect from the Palestinians and establish two states.” Israel moved in the exact opposition direction, weakening the PA and strengthening Hamas.

Shin Bet head Nadav Argaman spoke about this when he finished his term in 2021. He warned explicitly that the lack of dialogue between Israel and the PA had the effect of weakening the latter while bolstering Hamas.

He warned that the relative quiet in the West Bank at the time was deceptive, and that “Israel must find a way to cooperate with the PA and to strengthen it.” Eisenkot commented, in that same 2022 interview, that Argaman was right. “This is what’s happening, and it’s dangerous,” he added.

People on the right said similar things. One of the mantras being repeated was that of newly elected MK Bezalel Smotrich, who in 2015 told the Knesset Channel that “Hamas is an asset and Abu Mazen is a burden,” referring to Abbas by his nom de guerre.

In April 2019, Jonatan Urich, one of Netanyahu’s media advisers and a Likud spokesman, told Makor Rishon that one of Netanyahu’s achievements was separating Gaza (both politically and conceptually) from the West Bank. Netanyahu “basically smashed the vision of the Palestinian state in these two places,” he boasted. “Some of the achievement is related to the Qatari money reaching Hamas each month.”

Around the same time in 2019, Likud MK Galit Distel Atbaryan wrote in an effusively complimentary Facebook post: “We must say this honestly – Netanyahu wants Hamas on its feet, and he is ready to pay almost any incomprehensible price for this. Half the country is paralyzed, children and parents are suffering from post-trauma, homes are blown up, people are killed, a street cat holds a nuclear tiger by the balls.” Read it but don’t believe it? It’s worth believing, because this is exactly the policy by which Netanyahu comported himself.

The prime minister himself spoke briefly at times about his position regarding Hamas. In March 2019, he said during a meeting of Likud MKs, at which the subject of transfer of funds to Hamas was under discussion, that, “Whoever opposes a Palestinian state must support delivery of funds to Gaza because maintaining separation between the PA in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza will prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state.”

In a tweet two months later, Channel 13 quoted former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak as telling a Kuwaiti newspaper: “Netanyahu isn’t interested in a two-state solution. Rather, he wants to separate Gaza from the West Bank, as he told me at the end of 2010.”

Gen. (Res.) Gershon Hacohen, a prominent right winger, made things crystal clear in an interview with the online magazine Mida in May 2019. “When Netanyahu didn’t go to war in Gaza to defeat the Hamas regime, he basically prevented Abu Mazen from establishing a united Palestinian state,” he recalled at the time. “We need to exploit the situation of separation created between Gaza and Ramallah. It’s an Israeli interest of the highest level, and you can’t understand the situation in Gaza without understanding this context.”

Netanyahu’s entire policy since 2009 has sought to destroy any possibility of a diplomatic agreement with the Palestinians. It’s the theme of his rule, which depends on the continuation of the conflict. Destroying democracy is an additional aspect of his continuing rule, something that has brought many of us out to the streets during the past year.

In that same 2019 interview with Army Radio, Barak said that Netanyahu was keeping the south “on a constant low flame.” One should pay particular attention to his assertion that the security establishment laid on the cabinet table several times plans “to drain the swamp” of Hamas in Gaza, but the cabinet never discussed them.

Netanyahu knew, Barak added, “that it’s easier with Hamas to explain to Israelis that there is no one to sit with and no one to talk to. If the PA strengthens… then there will be someone to talk to.”

Back to Distel Atbaryan: “Mark my words – Benjamin Netanyahu keeps Hamas on its feet so that the entire State of Israel won’t become the ‘Gaza envelope.’” She warned of disaster “if Hamas collapses,” in which case, “Abu Mazen is liable to control Gaza. If he will control it, voices from the left will arise advocating negotiations and a diplomatic settlement and a Palestinian state, including in Judea and Samaria.” Netanyahu’s mouthpieces are incessantly pumping out such messages.

Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas have an unspoken political alliance against their common enemy – the Palestinian Authority. In other words, Netanyahu has cooperation and agreement with a group whose goal is the destruction of the State of Israel and the murder of Jews.

New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman was on the mark when he wrote in May 2021, at the time of the establishment of the government of change, that Netanyahu and Hamas were scared of the possibility of a diplomatic breakthrough. He wrote that the premier and Hamas both “wanted to destroy the possibility of political change before it could destroy them politically.”

He then explained that they didn’t need to talk or have an agreement between them. “They each understand what the other needs to stay in power and consciously or unconsciously behave in ways to ensure that they deliver it.”

I could go on and on expanding on the subject of this cooperation, but the preceding examples speak for themselves. The 2023 pogrom is a result of Netanyahu’s policy. It is not “a failure of the concept” – rather, this is the concept: Netanyahu and Hamas are political partners, and both sides have fulfilled their side of the bargain.

In the future, more details will emerge that will shed additional light on that mutual understanding. Don’t make the mistake of thinking – even now – that as long as Netanyahu and his present government are responsible for making decisions, the Hamas regime will collapse. There will be a lot of talk and pyrotechnics about the current “war against terror,” but sustaining Hamas is more important to Netanyahu than a few dead kibbutzniks.

A Brief History of the Netanyahu-Hamas Alliance (rsn.org)

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1728861008595485051?t=4cutanV1ss0hiCzUWyc1oA&s=19

mickeyrat

the oct 15 opening was about the recent start of the conflict. was really good. cant find just that, unfortunately.

this was 2 weeks ago, I haven't watched it yet, but given his research as a general rule, I believe he knocks it out of the park.

https://youtu.be/pJ9PKQbkJv8?si=TeaoJbwoUWxaihfK

mickeyrat

huh....

https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1729882489043464209?t=MVkQYthhyEQQVmwzWvkYUQ&s=19

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/nookyelur/status/1729955190856724693?t=XqHAg9zGaysgEG81KXGr6A&s=19

Halifax2TheMax

NYT is reporting that Bibi and IDF knew of the potential attacks from Gaza a year ago, even having the "blueprints," and dismissed Hamas's plans as "aspirational." Awful quiet in this thread.

mickeyrat

gift article

Israel Knew Hamas’s Attack Plan More Than a Year Ago https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Ck0.PTQp.k3KNza3CaagZ&smid=nytcore-android-share

 

was reviewed by The New York Times, did not set a date for the attack, but described a methodical assault designed to overwhelm the fortifications around the Gaza Strip, take over Israeli cities and storm key military bases, including a division headquarters.

Hamas followed the blueprint with shocking precision. The document called for a barrage of rockets at the outset of the attack, drones to knock out the security cameras and automated machine guns along the border, and gunmen to pour into Israel en masse in paragliders, on motorcycles and on foot — all of which happened on Oct. 7.

continues. .

mickeyrat

https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1730423048766144567?t=f_kwptU6OZqC2VI3ExLCNA&s=19

Lerxst1992

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1730423048766144567?t=f_kwptU6OZqC2VI3ExLCNA&s=19

A girl who would be perfectly safe now if Oct 7th invasion did not happen.

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1730423048766144567?t=f_kwptU6OZqC2VI3ExLCNA&s=19

A girl who would be perfectly safe now if Oct 7th invasion did not happen.

What are your thoughts on Israel knowing of the plans of attack for a year, taking no action and having an “enemy (Hamas) of my enemy (Palestinian Authority) is my friend (Hamas)” relationship with Hamas?

Is growing up in Gaza, as it’s been, “perfectly alive” to you? Maybe if 1948 didn’t happen she’d have the opportunity to grow up to be an adult, eh?

mickeyrat

Do I have this right? You rightly condemn  Hamas for the rape of Israeli women on October 7th. And then turn around and say it's okay for IDF soldiers to rape Arab women to boost their morale?

What the actual fuck.

Yes it's from 2016 but mother fuck

https://twitter.com/AdameMedia/status/1730674447357554918?t=s8OCb49m0Mt_YBEV9PEJMA&s=19

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

Do I have this right? You rightly condemn  Hamas for the rape of Israeli women on October 7th. And then turn around and say it's okay for IDF soldiers to rape Arab women to boost their morale?

What the actual fuck.

Yes it's from 2016 but mother fuck

https://twitter.com/AdameMedia/status/1730674447357554918?t=s8OCb49m0Mt_YBEV9PEJMA&s=19

Democracy, yo!!

Lerxst1992

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1730423048766144567?t=f_kwptU6OZqC2VI3ExLCNA&s=19

A girl who would be perfectly safe now if Oct 7th invasion did not happen.

What are your thoughts on Israel knowing of the plans of attack for a year, taking no action and having an “enemy (Hamas) of my enemy (Palestinian Authority) is my friend (Hamas)” relationship with Hamas?

Is growing up in Gaza, as it’s been, “perfectly alive” to you? Maybe if 1948 didn’t happen she’d have the opportunity to grow up to be an adult, eh?

I miss the whataboutism Hal. With the solid (rumors?) we can have drinks at stitch next September while some of us poor suckers forced to pay a grand to sit anywhere lower than the rafters, unless they finally decide to play the proper amount of shows to meet the unprecedented demand my city has for this glorious band.

anyway you can point to 1948, I can point to 1917 or 1800 or 1813 BCE or you’re going to tell me 3836 years history gives Israel zero voice and I’ll need to defend stories of the key man on this land living 175 years.

the brutal reality remains many lands are occupied, including the one you are likely enjoying right now by the winner of wars. Not recognizing a people’s right to exist peacefully has consequences and wars have results. That’s the brutal truth.  Authoritarian rule also has terrible implications for the poor folks of Gaza but it’s good that you support authoritarianism when it involves the Jewish people. Maybe we can celebrate the end of American democracy as we join the domain of authoritarianism next November.

you may say apartheid, and I will point out the fact that West Bank a b and c is the specific result of two peace treaties signed by Palestinian leadership, and their unwillingness to continue negotiations for a two state solution continues to present day. We’ve been thru this scores of times but it gets us nowhere.


and the bottom line is this conflict has zero to do with Palestinian political issues. They started this war by murdering  1400 likely liberal Jews who fully supported the plight of the Gazans.

have you or any of the libs here bothered to do any homework on this terrible issue, (despite gimme driving songs of praise about some long banned commenters) you would have learned that the Israeli land near Gaza that was attacked was very left leaning and very supportive of Gaza. That’s who the Palestinians decided to murder when they began this conflict. People who supported their claims. This has zero to do with their complicated politics. It has to do with the Gaza decision to kill innocent liberal Jews, and it appears a wing of American liberals support that 

so,you and (name-calling removed by admin) keep up your whataboutism nonsense, get a solid block of libs to hate on Bidens policies as trump continues to lead almost every swing state poll, and we can drink in glory next fall, listen to some glorious tunes at the likely center of this bands universe, sorry kraken land,  as we welcome american authoritarianism, because people can’t be bothered to do a little research and learn about who the Gazans killed on Oct 7

mickeyrat

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/12/02/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news/israeli-calls-to-evacuate-parts-of-southern-gaza-could-be-a-precursor-to-an-invasion-there?smid=url-share

 

The Israeli military heavily bombarded southern Gaza on Saturday and ordered residents of several Palestinian border towns in the area to leave their homes, appearing to set the stage for a ground invasion in the south as hostilities resumed after the collapse of a weeklong truce with Hamas.

The Israeli demand for evacuations evoked similar orders the military gave before invading northern Gaza in late October, and it added to the fear and uncertainty hanging over Gaza’s 2.2 million people as a new phase appeared to begin in the nearly two-month war.

continues

mickeyrat

oh we're back to a book of make believe again?

175 years?gtfooh

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

https://twitter.com/AbbyMartin/status/1730423048766144567?t=f_kwptU6OZqC2VI3ExLCNA&s=19

A girl who would be perfectly safe now if Oct 7th invasion did not happen.

What are your thoughts on Israel knowing of the plans of attack for a year, taking no action and having an “enemy (Hamas) of my enemy (Palestinian Authority) is my friend (Hamas)” relationship with Hamas?

Is growing up in Gaza, as it’s been, “perfectly alive” to you? Maybe if 1948 didn’t happen she’d have the opportunity to grow up to be an adult, eh?

I miss the whataboutism Hal. With the solid (rumors?) we can have drinks at stitch next September while some of us poor suckers forced to pay a grand to sit anywhere lower than the rafters, unless they finally decide to play the proper amount of shows to meet the unprecedented demand my city has for this glorious band.

anyway you can point to 1948, I can point to 1917 or 1800 or 1813 BCE or you’re going to tell me 3836 years history gives Israel zero voice and I’ll need to defend stories of the key man on this land living 175 years.

the brutal reality remains many lands are occupied, including the one you are likely enjoying right now by the winner of wars. Not recognizing a people’s right to exist peacefully has consequences and wars have results. That’s the brutal truth.  Authoritarian rule also has terrible implications for the poor folks of Gaza but it’s good that you support authoritarianism when it involves the Jewish people. Maybe we can celebrate the end of American democracy as we join the domain of authoritarianism next November.

you may say apartheid, and I will point out the fact that West Bank a b and c is the specific result of two peace treaties signed by Palestinian leadership, and their unwillingness to continue negotiations for a two state solution continues to present day. We’ve been thru this scores of times but it gets us nowhere.


and the bottom line is this conflict has zero to do with Palestinian political issues. They started this war by murdering  1400 likely liberal Jews who fully supported the plight of the Gazans.

have you or any of the libs here bothered to do any homework on this terrible issue, (despite gimme driving songs of praise about some long banned commenters) you would have learned that the Israeli land near Gaza that was attacked was very left leaning and very supportive of Gaza. That’s who the Palestinians decided to murder when they began this conflict. People who supported their claims. This has zero to do with their complicated politics. It has to do with the Gaza decision to kill innocent liberal Jews, and it appears a wing of American liberals support that 

so,you and (name-calling removed by admin) keep up your whataboutism nonsense, get a solid block of libs to hate on Bidens policies as trump continues to lead almost every swing state poll, and we can drink in glory next fall, listen to some glorious tunes at the likely center of this bands universe, sorry kraken land,  as we welcome american authoritarianism, because people can’t be bothered to do a little research and learn about who the Gazans killed on Oct 7

Bibi allowed Hamas to kill those liberal Israelis because he and his right wing hate them, the PA and a two state solution. At least I can acknowledge that and the blood on the hands of both sides.

How many dead Palestinians make justice for the 1,400 dead Israelis? How much more seized land and injustice of locking up youth without charge, in that democracy of yours? How many more West Bank illegal settlements need to be created before Israeli righteousness reigns supreme?

I’ll research the history and read up on it if you will? Make a recommendation.